Microsoft Hints at Pre-Owned Fee For Xbox One Games

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admittedly console gaming was always awesome because I could share games with friends :/

You know what the best thing about this is?

It's going to take like...two weeks after the XBone comes out for someone to figure out an easy bypass for this feature, because people always find ways around these kinds of measures, and then Microsoft will have pissed off a bunch of people and the remaining ones still won't be paying their second hand usage fees anyway.

Zombie_Moogle:
Let me make sure I've got this

A disc is good for 1 install on 1 500GB HDD. How many AAA games could 500GB hold? Eventually you'd need to delete older ones to install newer games; does this mean they're gonna try to charge customers to play the game that they themselves already bought brand-new at full price?

Forget resale. Can I even play the same game twice?

Sure, just buy another Microsoft-approved 500 GB hard drive for $200 bucks! ... what's that, you filled it up already? Buy another one! And another one!

image
Pictured: Thoughts running through the CEO of Microsoft's head at the time of these decisions.

OT: Used games aren't the enemy of the industry. In fact, the biggest enemy of the industry right now is the industry itself. Come on, guys, in your effort to keep your massive bloated budgets afloat, you're ostracizing all of the people who would actually purchase your products. Calm down, get some perspective, listen to what the sensible people are saying, and stop blowing millions on marketing and Metal Gear Solid-levels of cutscenes. If you make good games, and get the word out on them, people will buy them. Look at how many copies Dark Souls ended up selling. Look at how Bamco is trying to screw it up by marketing it to the people who aren't going to be interested in it.

Fappy:
The bullet's in the chamber. Will they shoot themselves in the foot?

The foot is already full of holes, this ones going in their face.

I'd like to say people won't take it, but this is the exact situation PC gamers(me included) sleep walked into with Steam and co, one account, one game and screw you. Short of a giant class action suit about right to sell property or Gamestop/Amazon/Ebay straight up refusing to carry Xbox One related products, welcome to DRM land consoleplayers.

The market for cracked XboxOne's is going to be huge.

So you have to install a game on your hard drive in order to be able to play it. At all? (And you more than likely have to have a working Internet connection for the game to work.) But if you want, say, your teenage son to be able to play the game on his own account on the same Xbone (because he doesn't WANT to play on your account, he wants his OWN account), you've got to shell out some fee to... install it again? Isn't it already installed? I don't know from computers, apparently.

Also, if I want to loan a buddy the game for a week while I go out of town so he can see if he likes it enough to want to buy it for himself, he's got to pay a fee for the privilege of installing it on his Xbone's hard drive? And then... what? He can play the game forever off the installation (minus the disc)? If THAT's the case, it doesn't behoove Microsoft to make that nominal fee all that nominal. It behooves Microsoft to make that fee equivalent to the price you'd expect to pay to buy that game used if you didn't have to go through the installation rigmarole.

Right?

--Morology!

Am I just being too optimistic in thinking that maybe there will be an option to uninstall a game therein returning full DRM back to the disc? I mean... in my mind that would solve both the problems of gamesharing and remaining consumer friendly... yeah, probably a bit too optimistic.

fix-the-spade:

Fappy:
The bullet's in the chamber. Will they shoot themselves in the foot?

The foot is already full of holes, this ones going in their face.

I'd like to say people won't take it, but this is the exact situation PC gamers(me included) sleep walked into with Steam and co, one account, one game and screw you. Short of a giant class action suit about right to sell property or Gamestop/Amazon/Ebay straight up refusing to carry Xbox One related products, welcome to DRM land consoleplayers.

The market for cracked XboxOne's is going to be huge.

GameStop already promised severely reduced shelf space to consoles that use anti used-game tactics.

OT: Sony has won the next console war before they were even released. I didn't think Microsoft was this dumb.

What bugs me also is the mandatory install. It was really bad for MGS4, GT4 and all that but not every game needed one for the PS3 and not every game tried to reach the capacity of a blu-ray disc. Now with games like GTA V, Max Payne 3 and L.A. Noire requiring 30 or more gigabytes of storage, the sizes of games are only going to get bigger now both consoles use blu-ray. So basically this mandatory install for all games means that hard-drive is going to get filled up very quickly, and to install it again you will have to pay. Looks like massive collections are out of the picture.

Oh... also Microsoft, making the console massive then making gamers pay if they want to take a game round a friend's house is a MASSIVE dick move. What if you wanted two Xbox Ones (that name!) in the same house? You'll have to pay for every single game all over again.

Well done Microsoft.

Commenters on the Verge quicky pointed this out: Sure, there will be a fee for the used game. But how much? Well, it sounds like you can play the game without the disk in the drive, so there's nothing stopping you from installing the game and then selling your "used" copy. That would indicate that the fee will be quite high, even maybe retail.

The counter to this is that when the next person installs the game, it will deactivate it for the original user. That sounds a bit confusing to me though. There's no way you'll be able to clearly explain that to the users who will suddenly find they can no longer play their game cause they lent it to a friend. It would also make it really difficult to go play the game with a friend.

Then you also have the "cloud" services that can pretty much allow game developers to make their games online only. Even if MS doesn't kill used games with it's fee, I imagine developers will charge a fee for every online account connected to the same game code.

I'm not sure this is the greatest attack on consumers in history or something though. Was that what Half-life 2 was? Are all Steamworks games doing this? Because when I buy a great game that just came out a couple monthts ago for $10 and then install it on multiple computers, I really don't feel like I've been attacked.

Grey Carter:
Xbone

Congrats on coming up with the first (as far as I know) penis gag related to the new console name! I supposed Microsoft is boneing us x-tremely hard with this used game thing, hopefully it bombs and they have to cut it out to remain competitive with Sony. I'm a PC gamer though, so I doubt it will affect me that much.

"That makes sense, the Xbox One is using a Blu Ray drive with much slower read times than traditional a DVD drive."

How slow is the blu ray?

PS3 blu ray 2x speed
360 DVD 12x speed

Blu ray drive speed
1 - 4.5 MB/s
2 - 9 MB/s
4 - 18 MB/s
6 - 27 MB/s
8 - 36 MB/s
10 - 45 MB/s
12 - 54 MB/s
14 - 63 MB/s

DVD drive speed
1x - 1.39 MB/s
2x - 2.77 MB/s
4x - 5.54 MB/s
6x - 8.31 MB/s
8x - 11.08 MB/s
10x - 13.85 MB/s
12x - 16.62 MB/s
16x - 22.16 MB/s
18x - 24.93 MB/s
20x - 27.70 MB/s
22x - 30.47 MB/s
24x - 33.24 MB/s

Lowest price bluray drive on newegg 12x speed for full hight 6x speed for slimline
for DVD 18x speed for full height and 8x speed for slimline.

"The Microsoft rep did say that if the disc was used with a second account, on the same console" then they pay a fee. So if I buy a game and ANYONE else in my house wants to play they have to use my account or buy the game for themselves for their account.

Microsoft is apperantly run by f@#^*!% idiots.
I will be skiping this entire console generation apperantly. Wow who would have thought the the people to convince me to become a computer gamer would be the people selling the consoles.

Well that's actually legitimately stupid. One of the reasons I console game is because I like using games on disk so I don't have to worry about loading up hard drive (I've already used most of my 500 gigs on my laptop from steam games). Now you're saying the games have to be completely installed? No. If I was an xbox user (and thank god I'm not) that would be my turn off from the new xbox

FinalDream:
So this explains why EA are so happy to drop online passes!

Lets be honest, we all knew it wasn't going to be out of the kindness of their hearts. I think a lot of people were expecting something like this to be the reason.

Hhmm... tbh I can't imagine how this will work out.
After all just imagine your XBox One is always offline. How can a offline system verify that the disc inside the tray is a pre-owned copy?
I could imagine such a system with a online DRM scheme e.g. you don't have to be online during play but during installation to verify the copy and bind it to an account (steam basically).
But not with a system that may be offline during its entire life...

And to all the people immigrating to the PC because of this: Welcome to Steam-Land! Where every fucking game is tied to your Steam account anyway! (or Origin or U-play...) ENJOY!

Legion:

FinalDream:
So this explains why EA are so happy to drop online passes!

Lets be honest, we all knew it wasn't going to be out of the kindness of their hearts. I think a lot of people were expecting something like this to be the reason.

I thought they were trying to win over some people with some extremely desperately needed PR but apparently I was wrong.

Hopefully sony is making the right choice by watching this unfold and thinking they want no part in that.

aba1:

Legion:

FinalDream:
So this explains why EA are so happy to drop online passes!

Lets be honest, we all knew it wasn't going to be out of the kindness of their hearts. I think a lot of people were expecting something like this to be the reason.

I thought they were trying to win over some people with some extremely desperately needed PR but apparently I was wrong.

It is entirely possible, but it is a standard PR move to try and use an already existing thing to piggyback credibility.

Just like how the current British Chancellor of the Exchequer is trying to claim partial responsibility for the next Star Wars films being filmed over here. He isn't particularly popular so is trying to boost his own rating (as it will provide jobs, unemployment being an issue), while jumping on something that was probably going to happen anyway.

I suspect EA are doing something similar.

PoolCleaningRobot:
Well that's actually legitimately stupid. One of the reasons I console game is because I like using games on disk so I don't have to worry about loading up hard drive (I've already used most of my 500 gigs on my laptop from steam games). Now you're saying the games have to be completely installed? No. If I was an xbox user (and thank god I'm not) that would be my turn off from the new xbox

I've never heard this before as a reason to use consoles over PCs. That's probably because hard drives are extremely cheap and there's no reason to have 500GB of games installed at once anyway since you can download them again if you need to. I'm having no trouble with all my games installed onto a 250GB SSD.

But the XBone might not have the cheap expansion ability. I would hope that MS goes Sony's route of allowing the user to install their own hard drive, but that's not how it worked on the 360. Having to pay a bunch to upgrade that wimpy 500GB would really suck.

Between this, the reports of Xbone not being backwards compatible, and now this nugget popping up ( http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124217-Microsoft-Officially-Denies-Always-On-For-Xbox-One ), I think this video from the Nostalgia Critic sums up the feelings of the people (at 0:21)

Just replace the movie Milk Money with Xbone.

Turns out that pre-owned fee thing is false, at least if Xbox's official support Twitter is anything to go by.

Fappy:
The bullet's in the chamber. Will they shoot themselves in the foot?

I thought the barrel was aimed at their head, what with the 'not always online, but can be very easily' 'feature' and now this.

and 500 gigs isn't gonna last long against when the thing gets a good size catalog of games going

good job MS -.-

I'm confused, will I be able to take a game over to my friend's house and play it on his console? Or will we have to pay in order to play. This whole thing is ridiculous.

So does MS get all of the money from this supposed extra fee?

I think people are jumping the gun with this one, and understandably so. But lets just look at what they are saying here.

With the ability to download a game to your HD and play without a disk, you open a whole can of worms here. What would stop you from going to your local redbox and renting a game, installing it on your hard drive, and then effectively now owning a game you only paid a buck for or buying a game and then giving it to a bunch of your friends so that they can then download it to their hard drives and have a free game? What Microsoft is proposing is that you can still buy used games if you want, but you then are barred from using the no-disk feature of the new xbox. It's a convenience feature. I don't know about you guys but I'm perfectly okay with that. I don't mind having to use a disk to play a game. Hell, I've been doing it for years now. Not only that but the PC has been doing the very same thing for years now.

People are so quick to jump on the hate bandwagon that it worries me.

CJ1145:
I often take multiplayer games to my friends' houses so we can play them there. Since lugging my Xbox around is dumb as shit, I just carry the disk.

Someone care to tell me why this new system is screwing me and my friends over when we're using the product as (presumably) intended?

Just sign into your account on your friend's console. This seems like a pretty simple solution that's being overlooked. And it's coming from someone who has had a PS, PS2, PS3 and is a PC gamer. I have no love for the Xbox.

Aris Khandr:

Zombie_Moogle:
Let me make sure I've got this

A disc is good for 1 install on 1 500GB HDD. How many AAA games could 500GB hold? Eventually you'd need to delete older ones to install newer games; does this mean they're gonna try to charge customers to play the game that they themselves already bought brand-new at full price?

Forget resale. Can I even play the same game twice?

It also says that this is account-based. So odds are, it will work like Steam, keeping track of all of the games you purchased, whether they are installed right now or not.

My question is more to "What about multi-user homes?" We've got a generation right now where every member of a household has their own account, with their own achievements, friends, and history. I don't think you'll entice too many people to buy the activation for each family member who wants to play the game you've already paid $60 for.

Like me. My son (4) plays Toy Story etc on HIS account... So you know he can not purchase new things on Live. If my other son wants to play on the same system I would have to buy the game again...... Yeah that is not gonna happen.....

With the current Xbox I may buy a game and play it and then my 2 brothers will play it. Does this mean that they have to pay when they want to play it? And what about borrowing and renting games? Will I have to pay when I borrow a game from a friend or rent a game from Blockbuster? Your losing me Microsoft, hopefully once a game is installed on the hard drive any account on that console can play it. That's not what it sounds like but I can hope.

Grey Carter:

It's not a typo. That's what I'm calling it.

And I love it. I sincerely hope it catches on.

Certainly more so than what I've already been hearing in regards to the upcoming 'console war'. Namely: "Ha! See? The Xbox One(won)! Get it?!"

*shudder* *cringe* *vomit*

Of course no backwards compatability and fees for pre-owned, It's easier to sell you the same game again as a download from their network.

This new console generation is the best advertizing for PC in years because the motto from both MS and Sony is "Less customer-friendly, more fees for you, and more money from us. Deal with it."

image

So...who does the money go to?

Is it the developers of the games or Microsoft. If it's Microsoft then they just beat EA at being greedy. Which is no small feat.

I tried looking but couldn't find anything, does anyone know if the PS4 will have the same issues with used games? If not, I'm jumping ships.

Clovus:

PoolCleaningRobot:
Well that's actually legitimately stupid. One of the reasons I console game is because I like using games on disk so I don't have to worry about loading up hard drive (I've already used most of my 500 gigs on my laptop from steam games). Now you're saying the games have to be completely installed? No. If I was an xbox user (and thank god I'm not) that would be my turn off from the new xbox

I've never heard this before as a reason to use consoles over PCs. That's probably because hard drives are extremely cheap and there's no reason to have 500GB of games installed at once anyway since you can download them again if you need to. I'm having no trouble with all my games installed onto a 250GB SSD.

But the XBone might not have the cheap expansion ability. I would hope that MS goes Sony's route of allowing the user to install their own hard drive, but that's not how it worked on the 360. Having to pay a bunch to upgrade that wimpy 500GB would really suck.

I have a laptop and I still live at home so I don't have the space for a big tower that would be easy for n00b like me to replace parts in, not to mention the hassle of transferring all that data (I shoulda bought a terabyte hard drive in the first place). I've somehow gotten down to 30 gigs and had to uninstall some steam games and delete p0rn. Besides, if you buy a disk based pc game you have put in the serial code to install the game on the computer and play it without the disk. Thus you can't reuse the disk so I can't lend games to my friends to try or resell them so I might as well buy all my games off Steam cheaply, without having to leave my house. But with consoles, I have the flexibility of trading games and borrowing them from friends

Also the Wired article I read said that all of the Xbone's parts are custom to allow more air flow through the system so it runs quieter and without fans. This includes the hard drive so either A) the hard drives will be expensive because they're custom or B) you will not be able to easily take the XBone apart in the first place because of its design

So if my son wants to play a game on our xbone with his account, it costs me extras $$$?

Ishigami:

And to all the people immigrating to the PC because of this: Welcome to Steam-Land! Where every fucking game is tied to your Steam account anyway! (or Origin or U-play...) ENJOY!

But all those people who migrate to PC will have to buy a new PC with the goofy mess of Windows 8 and it's 100 million shipped (but not necessarily activated) copies. Yes, Win8 under the hood is slightly better than Win7 but the goofy GUI is what cripples it.

IMHO, Microsoft as a whole is a slowly capsizing boat. The only reason they haven't sunk yet is the fact that they got gobs of cash to plug the holes with for now.

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