Microsoft Exec: "If You're Backwards Compatible, You're Really Backwards"

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pc can and sometimes will emulate all old console games without people having to pay boatloads of cash or listen to stupid execs that don't realize the potential of nostalgia.

Xangba:
From a hardware perspective it is NOT that difficult. Well not as much as they are claiming anyway. The whole "the technology is too different" is just an excuse, as they can emulate it. Computers have been doing it for quite a few years. The PS2 had full compatibility. The Wii U does it. The 3DS does it. Computers even emulate pretty much every last gen system and earlier.

While I agree with the rest of what you said, this part is outright wrong.
It seems you have no idea what you're talking about.
Otherwise you knew that it wasn't that long ago that our hardware finally became strong enough to emulate the PS2. What sperates us and emulating the PS3 or 360 is probably a decade, if not more. And that's just the raw hardware power.

Gearhead mk2:
I suspect that he won't be an executive for much longer. And when he's wondering why every hates him and wht he said and he's begging for his job, we'll only have this to say;

image

I don't think he'll be loosing his job anytime soon, and he wont be looking at the fans and asking why, he'll more or less blame people for not getting, "The Future". While I can't say anything about the new Xbox pleases me, I'm not about to shoot it down before it's even come out. Yeah, I'll probably get a PS4 instead of the Xbone, but that doesn't mean it can't have it's uses.

As for backwards compatibility, I always found I got the most nostalgia from video games when I played them on their original console, and I do find it odd that people would trade in a gaming console simply to get $100 or so off the next console. People aren't backwards, they just want good value for their money.

Keep digging Microsoft, keep digging. That hole must be getting pretty deep by now.

Considering the fact they have sold over twice as many 360s they did original Xbox's, and the fact they sold nearly triple the amount of games this time round compared to the last generation also. These statistics are probably more relevant than the nonsense Microsoft is spewing out about how relevant backwards compatibility is.

Andy Shandy:
Oh christ, that was an incredibly dumb statement.

except that it wasnt. im sure many will jump on the badnwago like you. but people who know at least basic knowledge about programming will understand this statement. if you are runing for backward compactability, you end up isntead of going for new features, removing existing ones to make it work on old drivers/hardware/software/ect. there is a reason a lot of games are dropping directx9 support, because being able to support that woudl signifacnatly hamper their ability to do what they want to do. becasue the odl tech simply does not support such possibilities to begin with. a certain level of backward comapctability is a necessity because not everyone upgrades instantly, but the more backward you are the more you turn to what was than what is to be.

Tank207:
Congratulations Mr. Mattrick, you just kicked up a hornet's nest.

This should be an interesting show.

Not really. while here on escapist we like to rage about backward compactability, most gamers cant give less fucks about it. they wont even try to play any of their old games on the new machine. they dont want to. sure, it sucks to be a minority and not ahve everything tailored to you, but thats your own choice.

Capcha tells me to decribe nintendo. even capcha entered console wars.
My answer: nintendont

Sgt. Sykes:
Since I have no console at all, I don't really get the fuzz about backwards compatibility.

It's because you have no console at all that you don't really get the fuzz about backwards compatibility. Ultimately the best way to sell a new console to people who already own the current generation, aka most console gamers, as a justifiable expense at launch when the console will be highest in price (and also when sales will matter the most to them) is if it is an upgrade to the existing generation's console, not a replacement. Since most launch titles tend to be veer towards Shit Island at full mast, any incident they can give people to consider this an upgrade should be welcomed with open arms and the easiest way to pull that off is making the new console compatible with their existing library of games rather than trying to sell them on getting a new console at launch with zero games that they want.

Xangba:

"Wait to buy it again" is what you really said there. And what happens if your old consoles stops working? What happens if you need to trade it in because you are on a budget and just can't quite afford the new one without it?

really? thats your argument? i cant afford it so they must make it work cheaper? how about you cant afford then dont buy it? are they forcing you to buy it with a gun to your head or something? if you cant afford it, your not the person they care about to begin with. why is that so hard to grasp for 90% of people here?

Wow...

What is being passed around the major gaming companies/divisions lately?

EA drops their $10 season pass thing, which is good. Sony drops licensing Fees for Indie developers for the PS4, which is good.

Nintendo screws over any LPers or people who breath the word Nintendo, which is stupid. Microsoft think that Backwards compatibility is stupid and are charging people who try to use any second hand games a fee, which is stupid.

So, I ask again, what the hell are they drinking, and why did Microsoft ask for more?

Orekoya:
It's because you have no console at all that you don't really get the fuzz about backwards compatibility. Ultimately the best way to sell a new console to people who already own the current generation, aka most console gamers, as a justifiable expense at launch when the console will be highest in price (and also when sales will matter the most to them) is if it is an upgrade to the existing generation's console, not a replacement. Since most launch titles tend to be veer towards Shit Island at full mast, any incident they can give people to consider this an upgrade should be welcomed with open arms and the easiest way to pull that off is making the new console compatible with their existing library of games rather than trying to sell them on getting a new console at launch with zero games that they want.

I understand the theory, but I still see it as rather moot for these reasons:

1) The hardware architecture is so vastly different that BC would either be utterly, totally crap (emulation), or would make the console more expensive (by including the X360 HW), or both
2) Except for Nintendo, noone ever had perfect BC. Usually, lots of games get broken. And frankly if the BC isn't perfect (like GC -> Wii), what's the point?
3) Buying a new console near its launch is a silly move anyway (few games, potential hardware issues)
4) Why would you buy a new console if you'd play mostly just old games? Save the money and don't buy it. Early adopters are tech fans and generally don't need to be bothered that much by BC.
5) Okay let's say the BC is there... What you'd do with the old console, sell it for peanuts? Older X360s and PS3 are worth maybe one game. If you bought the console just recently, it's wroth more but also wroth hanging onto and not trading it right away. I think.

Personally I only see one reason for BC - if the old console breaks, you could play the old games on the new system, but that only works if the BC is perfect. But you still couldn't play games from 2 generations prior, so why bother.

I know, customer loyalty. But that's actually the company's problem, not the customer's. I'm happier if the company doesn't try to 'gain my loyalty' with crap.

The fuck?! That's because there aren't any current or next gen consoles with backward compatibility! Except for Nintendo, everyone is just forcing us to deal with it. One of the main reason I purchased a 3Ds is because it has backwards compatibility and allows me to play games from previous generation. People in suits are dumb.

I'm afraid Microsoft's head is backwards compatible with their ARSE!*Badum tish*
Will be here all week folks.

Seriously what the hell are they thinking?!

Sgt. Sykes:
1) The hardware architecture is so vastly different that BC would either be utterly, totally crap (emulation), or would make the console more expensive (by including the X360 HW), or both

And yet despite "vastly different hardware architecture" I can still use dosbox to play games from the eighties. It's not a very good excuse.

Sgt. Sykes:
2) Except for Nintendo, noone ever had perfect BC. Usually, lots of games get broken. And frankly if the BC isn't perfect (like GC -> Wii), what's the point?

"Because they can't do it perfectly, they shouldn't bother doing it at all." Did I get that right? Because that's plain silly. They're certainly not going to get it right by not trying.

Sgt. Sykes:
3) Buying a new console near its launch is a silly move anyway (few games, potential hardware issues)

It is a silly move for the consumer. It's also a vital move to the company. The company has the most to lose or gain in how launch plays out, and they're the ones making the console. Throwing away all the aces they could have in their sleeves is not a smart move.

Sgt. Sykes:
4) Why would you buy a new console if you'd play mostly just old games? Save the money and don't buy it. Early adopters are tech fans and generally don't need to be bothered that much by BC.

Same reason anybody would buy an upgrade, they want better and faster than what they have. "Blu-ray players can play DVD better than DVD Players" it was one of the major selling points, and it worked.

Also, "Early adopters are tech fans and generally don't need to be bothered that much by BC." What is the logic behind this: that because tech fans are their lap dogs it's alright for that company to spit in these early-adopters' faces because they'll take what they're given? Now I am curious how company word that in the mission statement when they make it their goal to piss on their customers.

Sgt. Sykes:
5) Okay let's say the BC is there... What you'd do with the old console, sell it for peanuts? Older X360s and PS3 are worth maybe one game. If you bought the console just recently, it's wroth more but also wroth hanging onto and not trading it right away. I think.

What do you mean: "what you'd do with the old console"? People do different things. I've heard that most people store that in case of emergencies. We're talking about a plethora of devices that are fighting to be on the same hdmi ports and displayed on the same tv at a given time. Microsoft will want that choice to include Xbone - the last thing it needs is competition from 360.

but...WHAT?
Why would he say such a thing - everything Microsoft Windows was about backwards compatibility - you can play most of your games that ran on win95 even on Win7. What about all the shitty compatibility modes, etc.? what about all your Windows upgrades that were just adding another layer of weirdness to the huge pile? Microsoft, you LIVE from backwards compatibility. if you look at Macs, none of their programs from 10 years ago would work on current machines.
you give pretty much backwards compatibility for machines from more than 15(!) years ago. don't just say that backwards compatibility is not a thing D: !

Well I guess I'm backwards I use play my PS2 pretty frequently, in fact I'm waiting for a copy of Final Fantasy X to arrive off Ebay so I can try that.

I might end up buying a next-gen console a few years down the line, once it has decent library of games and has had a few price cuts. But, the lack of backwards compatibility has made me lose interest in both the Xbone and PS4 for the foreseeable future.

Orekoya:
And yet despite "vastly different hardware architecture" I can still use dosbox to play games from the eighties. It's not a very good excuse.

*facepalm*
Do you know the most important requirement for emulation?
It's processing power.
Emulating PS2 games doesn't work flawlessly yet and brings even the strongest gaming PCs down to their knees. How on earth are they supposed to emulate the 360 on a console that has even less power?
You shouldn't assume that everything they say is shit just because most is.

Sure, why would you want to play your collection of old games on the Xbone, when you can run right out and buy them brand new all over again?

Orekoya:
And yet despite "vastly different hardware architecture" I can still use dosbox to play games from the eighties. It's not a very good excuse.

You can play games from the 80's on DOSBox because a) today's hardware is about a million times more powerful than the hardware of the 80's, b) DOSBox has been in development for over a decade, c) DOS is a really primitive system by today's standards

It's been said already that even PS2 emulation still isn't perfect today, it's still not easy to build a PC capable of it. And X360/PS3 hardware is 100x powerful and complex than that. Maybe MS/Sony could pull it off somehow, but only with seriously massive investments.

Orekoya:
"Because they can't do it perfectly, they shouldn't bother doing it at all." Did I get that right? Because that's plain silly. They're certainly not going to get it right by not trying.

Well yes, pretty much. Why would you want to play your games on a new console, if they'd work WORSE than on the older console? Or if some of the games wouldn't work at all? What would be the bloody point of that, especially if insane amounts of money would be sunk into making that crap possible?

Orekoya:

It is a silly move for the consumer. It's also a vital move to the company.

Well, are you a consumer or a company? If you're a consumer, an advice for you - care about consumer stuff and not the company stuff.

Consumers caring about the companies more than themselves is what has gotten us in the bullshit environment of today.

Now, maybe if consumers would flat out refuse to buy consoles without BC, that might change something, but we're too far beyond that.

Orekoya:

Same reason anybody would buy an upgrade, they want better and faster than what they have. "Blu-ray players can play DVD better than DVD Players" it was one of the major selling points, and it worked.

Yea, but BD players actually do play DVDs better than DVD players. Again, my point was, any BC that could be made at this time between current-gen and next-gen would be crap and expensive.

What is the point of a game console if not to play games? If there are no or few new games, it's completely pointless to buy the new console regardless of BC or lack of it. If someone wants to buy the new console just to have the latest tech, they should at least admit it and not hide behind some BC stuff.

You know when I think about it - the only people who might care about BC are people like me, who don't own a current-gen console. If the next-gen would have BC, it would be the incentive to wait a few months and then buy the new console with both new and old games.

oh god, its like a trainwreck clusterfuck at christmas
image

While the statement is dumb, I can understand the technical reason.

But on the other hand, if you do get a Xbone, would you get rid of your 360?

What the hell? The backwards compatibility barely worked. The only reason I didn't use it was because none of the games I wanted to play were supported. Ugh, glad i'm sticking to my PC

so the logic is : xbox one is all in one ... but if you want to play games from the original xbox ( wich i gues is not the number one ) or 360 you have to keep the other consoles ... even better ... you can place the kinect bar on top of the other kinect bar. All of that to play the next forza ,halo and call of duty that probably will be NOTHING like the ones we played before... makes sense ...

oh by the way i have a theory.. xbox ONE because it really is a number one .... they are literaly pissing on us

He's totally right, you know. That's why PCs are never backwards compatible. Can't run a Windows XP program on Windows 7.

This is just the sort of deep insight I expect out of Microsoft.

So your entire Xbox 360 line is throwaway. Congrats, you don't have any respect for current Xbox 360 titles, by shunning backwards compatibility altogether you're cheapening games as completely disposable. F**k you too, microsoft.

seriously what the fuck is wrong with you MS?

first the Xbone revealing that had nothing to do with games, then the indie news that say you still wont let them self publish and now this? what the hell are you doing? you suddenly thought you have too many costumers and want to loose them? you thought MS is getting too big and want to make it smaller? because i cant think of any other reason.

really don? what the hell were you thinking when you called some of your potential customers (as small they may be) backwards?

Wouldn't it be possible to sell some kind of addon box that can be plugged in and used as an emulator? It probably wouldn't be cheap, but if the option of buying one existed, people wouldn't feel so wronged. It's the fact that they are basically saying fuck you to BC that is annoying. For example, I get that PS4 can't emulate PS1-3, but why not 1 only? I don't see why that isn't possible.

Well when your backwards compatability doesn't work right and many of the games can't even be played on the new console of course the percent of people that play will be low... Also since most console models that have been out don't even support backwards compatability his arguement on statistics being low is a no shit!... I understand the added cost and time to add backwards compatability and would be fine with not having it if they could have all the games able to be downloadable and transferable also playable offline once on the system...

Dogstile:
What the hell? The backwards compatibility barely worked. The only reason I didn't use it was because none of the games I wanted to play were supported. Ugh, glad i'm sticking to my PC

Yeah his statistics are just completely coming out of his ass. Seriously if it doesn't work right or makes the game worse why would you play on it to begin with... They should atleast make it possible to maybe buy a seperate add on that can make playing older 360 or ps3 games possible for both systems. I think the market for that would show a revenue gain for them if done right...

sagitel:
seriously what the fuck is wrong with you MS?

first the Xbone revealing that had nothing to do with games, then the indie news that say you still wont let them self publish and now this? what the hell are you doing? you suddenly thought you have too many costumers and want to loose them? you thought MS is getting too big and want to make it smaller? because i cant think of any other reason.

really don? what the hell were you thinking when you called some of your potential customers (as small they may be) backwards?

They want to be like Apple, but fail to realize that the reason they even compete with Apple is for not having all the restrictions Apple have, but by doing this they will be giving Apple a bigger advantage yet...

canadamus_prime:
Keep digging Microsoft, keep digging. That hole must be getting pretty deep by now.

Even though Sony is doing the same with the PS4 they can still look good if they just don't act like dicks to the consumer, have a good game start, and not having the dumb restrictions Xbone is going to have. Still sucks that there is not even a option to add backwards compatability for it could increase revenue if sold seperate, but then they would have to moddable which both companies seem completely against in any form.

You who doesn't have to care about backwards compatibility, a PC gamer.

I can still play the over 10 year old Half-LifeČ on my machine and many many other classics. And yes I still play some of my older games from time to time. Especially the HLČ + Ep1 and Ep2 games are played at least once a year....

So much for not caring and never touching older games ever again...

One of the reasons I got the Wii U on release was because it was backwards compatible with Wii titles, so I could retire my old, tired Wii. It even got all the VC console games in the Wii-mode :)

When it comes to Xbone, I've not really concidered buying it, even though I have a Xbox 360. And when the Microsoft exec just keep pissing of us gamers with saying stupid things like that, it's just one more reason not to go Xbone.

I think the PS4 isn't backwards compatible either, but at least Sony execs doesn't say that many stupid things to piss us off. And I might get myself a PS4 eventually, because over the years I found I prefer the PS3 to the Xbox 360, and because of Microsofts ongoing stupidity and arrogance.

Oh this is fucking hilarious. They make crappy backwards compatiblity in the xbox 360 then use the fact that people cant play a lot of their old games on it as a statistic proving people dont want backward compatibility.

/Facepalm doesnt cover it, there just aint that many facepalms in the world.

"Only 5% of customers"... one in twenty. So fuck those guys, since that's such a completely negligible number in a gigantic fucking market.

...I still use my first-gen "60GB" (it's a 320 now) PS3 for PS2 and PS1 games more often than PS3 games...

I do so love microsoft for creating this new travesty of a machine. With every generation, their ineptitude becomes more obvious. Delicious.

matrix3509:
Yeah because every 360 on earth is totally gonna last 10 or more years right? Tell me how backwards I am when I'm out $2000+ worth of games and see how far you can run after I've entered blood-rage.

While it's not a perfect solution by any means, in 10 years you're probably going to be able to emulate them on whatever passes for a PC. My PSX died, I can still play the games, same with my SNES, & my Amiga, and if my PS2 had died and my ageing PC was up to it (which it isn't) I could play my PS2 games as well. We can't guarantee someone will come up with a decent 360 emulator but hopefully there will be options that don't involve buying the last working 360 off ebay for $1M. Though it would be fun to watch you eating this guy's liver in a berserk fury.

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