GameStop Suffers Another Sales Loss

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GameStop Suffers Another Sales Loss

GameStop

GameStop's sales slipped by nearly seven percent in the first quarter of 2013 but the overall decline of the industry means the company actually saw its market share increase.

Videogame retail giant GameStop reported sales of $1.87 billion for the first three months of its 2013 fiscal year, a decline of 6.8 percent over the same quarter in 2012, during which it hit $2 billion in sales. While overall sales were down, mobile sales were up a whopping 290 percent to $46.8 million and digital sales were up 47.3 percent. Net earnings for the quarter were $54.6 million, compared to $72.5 million in the first quarter of 2012.

GameStop said its "topline sales continue to be impacted by the late stage effects of the current console cycle," a point reflected by the nature of the decline. New software sales were down 3.8 percent in the quarter while preowned software dropped by 7.5 percent, but new hardware sales were down an alarming but not surprising 30.6 percent.

It's easy (and for some people, fun) to predict doom and gloom for GameStop, but even though it faces continuing challenges from an increasingly-digital market, I think a relatively minor decrease in sales at this point in the console cycle is likely good news for the company. New console sales are bound to slow down dramatically as consumers wait for the next generation to arrive and the current generation to drop in price, and the real surprise here is that the dropoff wasn't more dramatic.

GameStop also reported that thanks to a much more dramatic overall decline in new game sales of 14.2 percent in the U.S., its market share actually increased and now sits at 47.7 percent of new Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 software.

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So they did good compared to everyone else. As long as they keep enough market power to make Microsoft keep backpedaling up until the launch of the Xbone, I'll be happy.

Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Mad they wouldn't give you more than $4 for your five year old game?

They're not nearly as evil as people like to think they are. Almost everyone who attacks them usually had a bad experience with their admittedly lax employees. I've never had a problem with them.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Mad they wouldn't give you more than $4 for your five year old game?

They're not nearly as evil as people like to think they are. Almost everyone who attacks them usually had a bad experience with their admittedly lax employees. I've never had a problem with them.

I just like how people act "upset" that they only get $4 for your old games... like they have NO alternates to sell this game on Amazon, Ebay, or dozens of other used-market options.

Still, with the Xbone being so anti-consumer and anti-used games, I hope Gamestop gets enough leverage to forced them to either drop the whole stupid idea, or cause them financial hardship when that avenue of getting games is cut off. (or PS4 takes their place)

Lol, my only thought going into this was as follows: "Oh, they are doing alright because they're market share went up? Someone hasn't been watching the xbone reveal!"

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Funny thing is while I agree that gamestop's business model is about f'ing customers over, the truth is publishers have become even bigger dicks than gamestop these past 4 years which is really saying something. I actually have less of a problem giving Gamestop my business (when its a good deal) rather than supporting practices by major publishers.

Trishbot:
I just like how people act "upset" that they only get $4 for your old games... like they have NO alternates to sell this game on Amazon, Ebay, or dozens of other used-market options.

Still, with the Xbone being so anti-consumer and anti-used games, I hope Gamestop gets enough leverage to forced them to either drop the whole stupid idea, or cause them financial hardship when that avenue of getting games is cut off. (or PS4 takes their place)

You do realise that the entire point of the Xbone's schtick is to grab leverage back from Gamestop, right?

The way I've always seen it, Gamestop (and their nearest UK equivalent, Game) have a particular responsibility in gaming; to promote gaming on the high street and keep it relevant and in the public eye. That means selling the newest games and supporting the indie market. It doesn't mean making preowned games their entire fucking business model (Game employees are specifically instructed to prioritise the sale of used games over new). That's what Microsoft are trying to stop. They don't particularly mind people lending games to their mates, even though it's technically against most EULAs and has been for a while (Wipeout 2097 prohibited unauthorised lending, and that was way back in 1996), because that helps with word of mouth and nobody's making more money out of it for the most part. But when the nation's biggest brick-and-mortar game retailers are prioritising resale, the system has a problem. Microsoft didn't want to stop you lending to your mates; that was just hideously unfortunate collateral damage from the attack on their main target.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

They're not nearly as evil as people like to think they are. Almost everyone who attacks them usually had a bad experience with their admittedly lax employees. I've never had a problem with them.

They're also kind of an inevitability of the shitty way game sales are treated. They're a poor product to sell, and you sneed some other way to make them profitable. Most places opt for loss-leader models, but that requires other stuff.

Kinitawowi:
They don't particularly mind people lending games to their mates, even though it's technically against most EULAs and has been for a while (Wipeout 2097 prohibited unauthorised lending, and that was way back in 1996), because that helps with word of mouth and nobody's making more money out of it for the most part.

"Unauthorised lending" has been around for decades and doesn't actually refer to giving a buddy your disc.

But when the nation's biggest brick-and-mortar game retailers are prioritising resale, the system has a problem.

It does indeed. Maybe Microsoft and company should work on making new game sales a viable business model for retail, instead of screwing them on the markup then punishing them for still trying to make money.

That's not to say that Gamestop is some saint or hero in this story. Far from it. It's just funny that when we're talking about a broken system, we rarely look at the part of the system that broke it in the first place.

In this battle of two evils, I actually sort of root for Gamestop, because their pull is one of the few things that can actually stop the erosion of our rights as gamers. Not that I'm under an illusion that this is done altruistically, mind.

I really hope Gamestop goes under one day. I would have never had a problem with them if they didn't "Blockbuster" all over my pants! WTF MAN!?

Those asses came in and demolished every other game exchange store in our area, literally buying them out and replacing them with new Gamestops like a spreading cancer. Some of these places where AMAZING stores; carrying games from every generation and crazy stuff like you'd find at Think Geek. One was called Software Etc., and ours would even import consoles from japan before they released here and allow people to play them. They also let you return bran-new games you opened and didn't like. Read that several times before it sinks in. Fuck Gamestop for killing places like that and basically replacing them with the McDonalds of gaming. I've never even been in a Gamestop that didn't look like it was from the ghetto. The floors are always dirty as shit, the shelves are always a mess, and everyone at the counter is trying to sell me shit I don't want like I'm at some kind of flea market. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were having cockfights and selling meth in the back.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Mad they wouldn't give you more than $4 for your five year old game?

They're not nearly as evil as people like to think they are. Almost everyone who attacks them usually had a bad experience with their admittedly lax employees. I've never had a problem with them.

Me neither I don't really get it. If you don't like what they will give you for the games just don't sell them there it isn't like you can't sell games in like a trillion other places.

Besides retail doesn't hurt anything it offers jobs to people in a world where we have less and less jobs and more and more people.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Mad they wouldn't give you more than $4 for your five year old game?

They're not nearly as evil as people like to think they are. Almost everyone who attacks them usually had a bad experience with their admittedly lax employees. I've never had a problem with them.

Actually I never ever shopped there. Haven't even set a foot in one of their stores mostly because they are nowhere present in my country. So yeah... don't you feel silly for jumping to conclusions?

What I do have is allot of people that worked there who have told me about their shady backroom practices and the strong arming involved in games sales.

Also why do you feel the need to protect a company who adopts a business practice of paying people on average 2% of the price they sell the game you just sold to them? It's not even a quarter or half like some other stores do. Why support them when you could take your game to other people who not only pay you more money, but don't try to jam a subscription down your throat when you buy your pre-owned game that is an entire 2$ cheaper than the new copy?

GAunderrated:

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Funny thing is while I agree that gamestop's business model is about f'ing customers over, the truth is publishers have become even bigger dicks than gamestop these past 4 years which is really saying something. I actually have less of a problem giving Gamestop my business (when its a good deal) rather than supporting practices by major publishers.

The lesser of two evils is still fucking evil. If you want to fight publishers here is what you do.

Don't pre-order. Don't buy the exclusive edition. Don't buy a game that you have not been able to pirate if there has not been any demo released. Don't buy the season pass. Wait. Let em sweat those first few precious sales week where they decide whether a game is a success or not.

If you really want to get back at publishers don't do any of the crap you have been doing up to now. What you don't do is feed the giant monster that is Gamestop with your money because you enjoy how they strong arm publishers. Do you think Gamestop gives a shit about you? No they will just as easily sell that shitty game they got in the back to any unwitting customer as would the publisher.

This is not power rangers, if two monsters try to tear each others throats out in your neighbourhood your house will get stomped on. I bet you didn't expect me being able to reference power rangers that easily :D

xPixelatedx:
Those asses came in and demolished every other game exchange store in our area, literally buying them out and replacing them with new Gamestops like a spreading cancer. Some of these places where AMAZING stores; carrying games from every generation and crazy stuff like you'd find at Think Geek. One was called Software Etc., and ours would even import consoles from japan before they released here and allow people to play them. They also let you return bran-new games you opened and didn't like. Read that several times before it sinks in. Fuck Gamestop for killing places like that and basically replacing them with the McDonalds of gaming. I've never even been in a Gamestop that didn't look like it was from the ghetto. The floors are always dirty as shit, the shelves are always a mess, and everyone at the counter is trying to sell me shit I don't want like I'm at some kind of flea market. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were having cockfights and selling meth in the back.

Stuff like this is why I don't purchase from them anymore but thankfully there is a Play N' Trade in my town which I actually like and buy from them from time to time, the employees are cool and I usually converse with them whenever I come in.

1337mokro:

The lesser of two evils is still fucking evil. If you want to fight publishers here is what you do.

Don't pre-order. Don't buy the exclusive edition. Don't buy a game that you have not been able to pirate if there has not been any demo released. Don't buy the season pass. Wait. Let em sweat those first few precious sales week where they decide whether a game is a success or not.

If you really want to get back at publishers don't do any of the crap you have been doing up to now. What you don't do is feed the giant monster that is Gamestop with your money because you enjoy how they strong arm publishers. Do you think Gamestop gives a shit about you? No they will just as easily sell that shitty game they got in the back to any unwitting customer as would the publisher.

This is not power rangers, if two monsters try to tear each others throats out in your neighbourhood your house will get stomped on. I bet you didn't expect me being able to reference power rangers that easily :D

To be honest I don't pre-order, buy season pass, exclusives, etc. However, I still don't want to give publishers any money if they support anti-consumer practices.

Gamestop is still evil and I don't care to support them but again I don't support their main money making since I don't trade in games. If I find a good deal then I will buy used there but I think I might have to highlight this since you missed it last post.

As of right now Publishers are actively hurting the game industry far more than Gamestop can right now. Let that sink in for a minute. If you would have told me that 5 years ago I would have said bullshit. However, as of right now gamestop is the lesser evil by virtue of just not trying to outdo their evil crap.

Of course I think I have to clarify that if I can avoid supporting either I will (through amazon and ebay mostly) and do more often than not. Come to think of it I haven't bought anything from gamestop in a few years but the point still stands that if I had to give money between gamestop and publishers I am more willing to give it to gamestop.

Kinitawowi:

Trishbot:
I just like how people act "upset" that they only get $4 for your old games... like they have NO alternates to sell this game on Amazon, Ebay, or dozens of other used-market options.

Still, with the Xbone being so anti-consumer and anti-used games, I hope Gamestop gets enough leverage to forced them to either drop the whole stupid idea, or cause them financial hardship when that avenue of getting games is cut off. (or PS4 takes their place)

You do realise that the entire point of the Xbone's schtick is to grab leverage back from Gamestop, right?

The way I've always seen it, Gamestop (and their nearest UK equivalent, Game) have a particular responsibility in gaming; to promote gaming on the high street and keep it relevant and in the public eye. That means selling the newest games and supporting the indie market. It doesn't mean making preowned games their entire fucking business model (Game employees are specifically instructed to prioritise the sale of used games over new). That's what Microsoft are trying to stop. They don't particularly mind people lending games to their mates, even though it's technically against most EULAs and has been for a while (Wipeout 2097 prohibited unauthorised lending, and that was way back in 1996), because that helps with word of mouth and nobody's making more money out of it for the most part. But when the nation's biggest brick-and-mortar game retailers are prioritising resale, the system has a problem. Microsoft didn't want to stop you lending to your mates; that was just hideously unfortunate collateral damage from the attack on their main target.

No, you are incorrect.
What Microsoft "entire schtick" is NOT to grab leverage back from Gamestop. It's to grab leverage back from YOU. You, the customer. You, the one with the legal right to resell your game. If not to Gamestop, then to Amazon, or on Ebay, or on Craig's List, or to whomever you desire. They don't want anyone else, not Gamestop and not YOU, making money off a used game sale. It literally is stamping all over your First Sale Doctrine rights as a consumer.

Gamestop is a business that has NO responsibility other than "supply and demand". If there is a demand for USED games (and there is a THRIVING market for it), they will sell it to you, and they have absolutely every protected right to prioritize used games over new games... but they can't HAVE a used game without having sold copies of NEW games, and those new games are 100% paid for already. There are ENTIRE game shops, including mom & pop shops, that do nothing but sell used games (because, big shock, a lot of games that are older than two years old are ONLY used, especially anything from the PS2-era back down to the PONG era).

You BET YOUR ASS Microsoft is upset that people lend a game to their mates. In fact, some stupid publishers (I believe Activision) even outright stated that loaning a game to a friend is "robbing" them of money. Beyond that, Microsoft just PISSED OFF the ENTIRE indie market by denying them any ability to self-publish (thus there is NO reason for them to go to Microsoft rather than Sony, Steam, or even Wii U).

Also, PLEASE do some research on your own protected legal rights. NO COURT has ever accepted EULAs as binding or lawful, because every law in place says the terms of service must always be made clear and evident to a customer PRIOR to completion of a sale, and EULAs don't do this. In fact, the ENTIRE continent of Europe has ruled EULAs as invalid and unlawful and affirmed customer's rights to own, resale, loan, and give out the games and content they have purchased, regardless of any TOS or EULAs that any companies put in a product.

Just because a big company SAYS it's a "license" is not necessarily true, and the courts system has reaffirmed this time and again. The saying "it looks like a duck, it moves like a duck, and it quacks like a duck" applies to a sale as well, and games have be ruled as "sales" and not "services" in court time and again, regardless of company PR and EULAs claiming otherwise. Vernor v. Autodesk affirmed this. MYD vs. Blizzard affirmed this. UMG v. Augusto affirmed this. The Electronic Frontier Foundation affirmed this. The ENTIRE European Union affirmed this.

Don't believe what a company tells you and tries to bully you into accepting. You have protected legal rights, and these include the right to resale the games you OWN (and you own them, not "license" them) to whomever you want for whatever price you wish to ask, and companies can be as butthurt about it as they want but, too bad, that's your right as a consumer.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Mad they wouldn't give you more than $4 for your five year old game?

They're not nearly as evil as people like to think they are. Almost everyone who attacks them usually had a bad experience with their admittedly lax employees. I've never had a problem with them.

Really cool about Gamestop? Oh there is nothing better than them giving you the wrong game twice in a row. Know how they sold my friend a game that was so marked up with scratches, you couldn't play it. Even when they take a used game, then turn around and sell it for 50 bucks. You know how they have to harass you by offering you a bunch of bullshit deals you don't want. "Do want to sign up for our members only players card"? "Alright, I just want to buy this game." Know if you sign this sheet, then we can spam fuck your email account with our amazing deals." "Even though that sounds good, I just want to buy the game." "Real good deal, we are offering the chance to partake in our amazing raffle so you can win a shirt you don't want." "For fuck sakes, I just want to buy this game." I come home with the game. Eventually find out they gave me the first one, instead of the second one.

"Let your inner warrior take flight when you pre-order this stupid game and get a free hat." "Gamestop, power to the players."

GAunderrated:
As of right now Publishers are actively hurting the game industry far more than Gamestop can right now. Let that sink in for a minute. If you would have told me that 5 years ago I would have said bullshit. However, as of right now gamestop is the lesser evil by virtue of just not trying to outdo their evil crap.

Why not give it to e-bay... why give it to gamestop? You pretend like there is no choice there but I will guarantee if there is a Gamestop copy there is also an e-bay copy. Not to mention the hundreds of sites online selling retail copies below even used price on day one.

Like I said two evils. Still evil. Supporting one is never justified just to kill the other. You can stoop to the same level to kill it sure, but making one evil bigger so it can strong arm the other is not a solution you will just end up with a battered monster and one stronger than it was before conspiring together.

If you had told me that 5 years ago I would have told you the shit storm was a coming. I can't really see how the recession year would have been in anyway a good year to be hopeful about the games industry.

The console cycle issue has traditionally meant a decrease in sales towards the end of the console cycle as gamers and publishers wait for new consoles to come out, so it's not that surprising. I believe publishers are expected to see similar decreases in sales. I guess the real question is whether the new batch of consoles will restore interest in retail sales.

Btw, some of you guys need to chill out. Gamestop's not "evil;" none of its business practices harm anyone in any meaningful way. They're not exactly forcing underpaid laborers to work in unsafe factories, as far as I know. Some of their policies leave something to be desired, though I'm honestly not sure if that's actual store policies of just their bad luck in somehow only finding annoying people to be their employees.

1337mokro:

GAunderrated:
As of right now Publishers are actively hurting the game industry far more than Gamestop can right now. Let that sink in for a minute. If you would have told me that 5 years ago I would have said bullshit. However, as of right now gamestop is the lesser evil by virtue of just not trying to outdo their evil crap.

Why not give it to e-bay... why give it to gamestop? You pretend like there is no choice there but I will guarantee if there is a Gamestop copy there is also an e-bay copy. Not to mention the hundreds of sites online selling retail copies below even used price on day one.

Like I said two evils. Still evil. Supporting one is never justified just to kill the other. You can stoop to the same level to kill it sure, but making one evil bigger so it can strong arm the other is not a solution you will just end up with a battered monster and one stronger than it was before conspiring together.

If you had told me that 5 years ago I would have told you the shit storm was a coming. I can't really see how the recession year would have been in anyway a good year to be hopeful about the games industry.

Sometimes you just want a new game right then. It's more of a convenience thing than anything else. Plus I've found games I wouldn't of heard about (Sengoku Basara) through them.

Also there's no guarantee of getting decent value through eBay either. If you're selling a fairly common game, there's a good chance other people are too.

Ratties:

NameIsRobertPaulson:

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Mad they wouldn't give you more than $4 for your five year old game?

They're not nearly as evil as people like to think they are. Almost everyone who attacks them usually had a bad experience with their admittedly lax employees. I've never had a problem with them.

Really cool about Gamestop? Oh there is nothing better than them giving you the wrong game twice in a row. Know how they sold my friend a game that was so marked up with scratches, you couldn't play it. Even when they take a used game, then turn around and sell it for 50 bucks. You know how they have to harass you by offering you a bunch of bullshit deals you don't want. "Do want to sign up for our members only players card"? "Alright, I just want to buy this game." Know if you sign this sheet, then we can spam fuck your email account with our amazing deals." "Even though that sounds good, I just want to buy the game." "Real good deal, we are offering the chance to partake in our amazing raffle so you can win a shirt you don't want." "For fuck sakes, I just want to buy this game." I come home with the game. Eventually find out they gave me the first one, instead of the second one.

"Let your inner warrior take flight when you pre-order this stupid game and get a free hat." "Gamestop, power to the players."

A lot of those complaints sound like problems with the people they hire, not the company itself.

1337mokro:

Actually I never ever shopped there. Haven't even set a foot in one of their stores mostly because they are nowhere present in my country. So yeah... don't you feel silly for jumping to conclusions?

Shouldn't that mean you should...you know. Not make an opinion? Just my thought.

At any rate, I can't say I care too much. I mean it'll probably suck to me as a consumer as I can't get games anywhere else that I know of, other than the internet.

1337mokro:

GAunderrated:
As of right now Publishers are actively hurting the game industry far more than Gamestop can right now. Let that sink in for a minute. If you would have told me that 5 years ago I would have said bullshit. However, as of right now gamestop is the lesser evil by virtue of just not trying to outdo their evil crap.

Why not give it to e-bay... why give it to gamestop? You pretend like there is no choice there but I will guarantee if there is a Gamestop copy there is also an e-bay copy. Not to mention the hundreds of sites online selling retail copies below even used price on day one.

Like I said two evils. Still evil. Supporting one is never justified just to kill the other. You can stoop to the same level to kill it sure, but making one evil bigger so it can strong arm the other is not a solution you will just end up with a battered monster and one stronger than it was before conspiring together.

If you had told me that 5 years ago I would have told you the shit storm was a coming. I can't really see how the recession year would have been in anyway a good year to be hopeful about the games industry.

I'm sorry because I am going to be rude for a moment since you set off one of my pet peeves. Don't cut off someones quote if you are cutting out the PART THAT WAS ALREADY ANSWERED.

I've already said in the post you clipped that I havent bought anything from gamestop in years, actually use amazon and ebay for my used games more, and was just defending the priciple of going with gamestop over publishers if there was no choice.

Obviously there is a choice that's why I don't support either but the fact that you clipped my answer to your future post is just so disrespectful.

The only problem with GameStop is that their used games are so close to retail cost it is often not worth buying one used unless they have a really good sale going. They also got to deal with competition from Amazon to some extent, thanks to frequent sales and also having a used games market.

However, the one good thing about them is that they usually have some of the most obscure titles of yesteryear packed away somewhere.

Trishbot:

Kinitawowi:

Trishbot:
I just like how people act "upset" that they only get $4 for your old games... like they have NO alternates to sell this game on Amazon, Ebay, or dozens of other used-market options.

Still, with the Xbone being so anti-consumer and anti-used games, I hope Gamestop gets enough leverage to forced them to either drop the whole stupid idea, or cause them financial hardship when that avenue of getting games is cut off. (or PS4 takes their place)

You do realise that the entire point of the Xbone's schtick is to grab leverage back from Gamestop, right?

The way I've always seen it, Gamestop (and their nearest UK equivalent, Game) have a particular responsibility in gaming; to promote gaming on the high street and keep it relevant and in the public eye. That means selling the newest games and supporting the indie market. It doesn't mean making preowned games their entire fucking business model (Game employees are specifically instructed to prioritise the sale of used games over new). That's what Microsoft are trying to stop. They don't particularly mind people lending games to their mates, even though it's technically against most EULAs and has been for a while (Wipeout 2097 prohibited unauthorised lending, and that was way back in 1996), because that helps with word of mouth and nobody's making more money out of it for the most part. But when the nation's biggest brick-and-mortar game retailers are prioritising resale, the system has a problem. Microsoft didn't want to stop you lending to your mates; that was just hideously unfortunate collateral damage from the attack on their main target.

No, you are incorrect.
What Microsoft "entire schtick" is NOT to grab leverage back from Gamestop. It's to grab leverage back from YOU. You, the customer. You, the one with the legal right to resell your game. If not to Gamestop, then to Amazon, or on Ebay, or on Craig's List, or to whomever you desire. They don't want anyone else, not Gamestop and not YOU, making money off a used game sale. It literally is stamping all over your First Sale Doctrine rights as a consumer.

Gamestop is a business that has NO responsibility other than "supply and demand". If there is a demand for USED games (and there is a THRIVING market for it), they will sell it to you, and they have absolutely every protected right to prioritize used games over new games... but they can't HAVE a used game without having sold copies of NEW games, and those new games are 100% paid for already. There are ENTIRE game shops, including mom & pop shops, that do nothing but sell used games (because, big shock, a lot of games that are older than two years old are ONLY used, especially anything from the PS2-era back down to the PONG era).

You BET YOUR ASS Microsoft is upset that people lend a game to their mates. In fact, some stupid publishers (I believe Activision) even outright stated that loaning a game to a friend is "robbing" them of money. Beyond that, Microsoft just PISSED OFF the ENTIRE indie market by denying them any ability to self-publish (thus there is NO reason for them to go to Microsoft rather than Sony, Steam, or even Wii U).

Also, PLEASE do some research on your own protected legal rights. NO COURT has ever accepted EULAs as binding or lawful, because every law in place says the terms of service must always be made clear and evident to a customer PRIOR to completion of a sale, and EULAs don't do this. In fact, the ENTIRE continent of Europe has ruled EULAs as invalid and unlawful and affirmed customer's rights to own, resale, loan, and give out the games and content they have purchased, regardless of any TOS or EULAs that any companies put in a product.

Just because a big company SAYS it's a "license" is not necessarily true, and the courts system has reaffirmed this time and again. The saying "it looks like a duck, it moves like a duck, and it quacks like a duck" applies to a sale as well, and games have be ruled as "sales" and not "services" in court time and again, regardless of company PR and EULAs claiming otherwise. Vernor v. Autodesk affirmed this. MYD vs. Blizzard affirmed this. UMG v. Augusto affirmed this. The Electronic Frontier Foundation affirmed this. The ENTIRE European Union affirmed this.

Don't believe what a company tells you and tries to bully you into accepting. You have protected legal rights, and these include the right to resale the games you OWN (and you own them, not "license" them) to whomever you want for whatever price you wish to ask, and companies can be as butthurt about it as they want but, too bad, that's your right as a consumer.

^^^ This

I wonder would a class action do anything? Supposing enough people around the globe were pissed enough to join in for the right to own a game they buy.

To be honest, there is really little to no reason to have physical copies of games anymore. Between cloud support and the huge size of hard drives for the next generation of systems, along with a steam like setup (where accounts will have a list of all games you buy, allowing you to download them again as needed..only keeping the saved games stored on your computer when not playing for prolonged periods), there is almost no reason to have physical copies, and a great opportunity for them to be phased out by providing digital copies at a slightly cheaper price (you can still buy physical copies in stores like gamestop/bestbuy etc, but the starting price is $10 more or so (covering distribution costs etc).

So new games would be $50 instead of $60 if you buy them as direct downloads. This would drastically reduce used sales all by itself (as the used games would take quite awhile to drop below the initial base cost of digital versions). It would cut back on renting games as well etc.

What is more, it allows for quick changes in pricing over time. You could have the initial price of $50 for the first 3 months, then a fairly common drop to $40 or so at that point (People on a budget could wait and expect the price to drop). It would be fairly easy to keep the new digital version of games price lower then the resale value of used hard copy games.

I have way to many games stored in my house. Well over a thousand between all my systems. I'm going to....cry.....seriously think of giving away my old Ps2's (I have 3) and all my games (I have hundreds) when the Ps4 comes out. i'll just have to make due with digital versions of those games that I can buy (many I already have). I'll miss elemental gearbolt the most though...but it's not worth keeping a console just for that.

Steam rocks. I have hundreds of games on steam, and I can quickly choose which of those I want to play at any time. Both the Xbox and PS systems should convert to something similar. It can be optional (so all those who hate such setups can go with the old setup if they want), but it would be far easier for most of us. I have a PC and an Ipad....between those two systems alone I have a ton of games I can quickly play, and dispose of, and redownload again in the future if I ever want to play them again. I only really buy new games that I can't wait to play for the consoles anymore, because I just have too many "I might like this" kinda games on pc/ipad already. There is only so many hours in a day I can play games, and there are way too many good free (or $1-$5) games being released constantly on the PC and Ipad for me to keep up with. Between steam sales (where you get pretty much any PC game eventually for 75% off) and IPad's free app a day games (gives apps you usually have to pay for free each day)...I doubt I could play everything if all I did was play games 18 hours a day. Thats not factoring in MMO's, flash games from armor games/kongregate etc.

If thinkgs keep going the way they have, consoles are going to need to do something huge, or they will only have nitch FPS players etc on them soon.

Colt47:
...However, the one good thing about them is that they usually have some of the most obscure titles of yesteryear packed away somewhere.

The strange thing is that Gamestop maintains warehouses full of old, collectible tech. At least they did in 2012. Check out that link. It's a good read. They still had working N64-era consoles in a warehouse last year??? Did they sell them on eBay or something? Why were they hoarding games they no longer officially stock? Anyway, here's a quote from the article:

"One astonishing stat is repeated by three different managers during presentations. 70 percent of income consumers make from trading games goes straight back into buying brand new games. GameStop argues that used games are an essential currency in supporting the games business.

The normal behavior is for guys to come into stores with their plastic bags full of old games, and trade them so that they can buy the new Call of Duty, Madden, Gears of War. GameStop says 17 percent of its sales are paid in trade credits. The implication is clear - if the games industry lost 17 percent of its sales tomorrow, that would be a bad day for the publishers and developers."

FYI, that second paragraph is poor reasoning. It's only 17 percent of what Gamestop sells, not the whole industry.

I stopped going to their stores, but their website is pretty much a solid bet. What most people don't realize is that Gamestop online is excellent for finding used, rare titles at decent prices. I stopped selling games years ago; maybe once in a blue moon I'll buy used because it's the only option.

Mind you, I'm not saying they're not dicks: Because they are. Or they were. Things have gotten confusing as of late.

wulfy42:
To be honest, there is really little to no reason to have physical copies of games anymore.

Sure there is. The miracle of the digital future is easy to embrace when you live someplace with a big, fat connection and no data cap, but when the best you can muster is a wonky 2-meg line with a 30-gig monthly limit, the picture is a lot different. And don't kid yourself that an awful lot of people aren't in that situation; high-end broadband penetration probably isn't nearly as deep as you think.

And I won't even get into the risks of purchasing "licenses" rather than products, but when that digital future does arrive (and I have no doubt that it will) I suspect it won't be nearly as rosy as people like to imagine.

Andy Chalk:

wulfy42:
To be honest, there is really little to no reason to have physical copies of games anymore.

Sure there is. The miracle of the digital future is easy to embrace when you live someplace with a big, fat connection and no data cap, but when the best you can muster is a wonky 2-meg line with a 30-gig monthly limit, the picture is a lot different. And don't kid yourself that an awful lot of people aren't in that situation; high-end broadband penetration probably isn't nearly as deep as you think.

And I won't even get into the risks of purchasing "licenses" rather than products, but when that digital future does arrive (and I have no doubt that it will) I suspect it won't be nearly as rosy as people like to imagine.

As I said, a physical option should still be available, at a higher price though. A small percentage of people will still need physical copies.

As far as a high band with connection being needed, it's not. I had a horrible .5 mbps internet connection for years (I Hate verizon!!). That was all that was available where I lived for the longest time. Finally.....finally...comcast offered a faster connection (35 mbps is what it shows on speedtest most of the time now), and it is SO much nicer.

Even at .5 mbps I could play MMO's just fine, and download games (though often I would have to do it over night) etc. I used steam just fine, downloaded games for my ps3 and xbox 360...all with the .5 mbps internet speed.

The average worldwide is slightly better then what I have right now. Yes, it's not available everywhere, but at least 95% of gamers will have access to at least .5 mbps..which is more then good enough for a steam like setup (digital downloading).

With multiple terabytes of storage....you can have all the games you want download over night while you sleep, and play them at will when your awake. The number of people who would need physical copies, would be tiny. They should still be made available, but again, the price for physical copies should be higher (not higher then they are now, the digital copies should...and should already have been.....cheaper.

To be honest, I believe you can actually get wireless internet anywhere at this point for $50-$70 a month...so even those people in the boondocks now...that can't get high speed internet another way.....can get it through dish network for instance.

There is no reason at all for anyone at this point to need physical copies of games, unless they are just flat broke and need to either pay for no internet (in which case they are probably going to have a hard time paying for games anyway).

And it will only get less and less likely that someone is going to need physical copies of games in the future. Even right now the number of people that do is pretty small, but if there is more demand for internet access everywhere (because TV, Games etc all start needing it constantly)....then it will be made available more as well.

I have Thousands of game discs......I doubt I'll every play 1/10th of the games I have in disc form again....and many I have never even had a chance to play. Real life + plenty of money + game addiction = way too many games and not enough time to play them. I would probably STILL buy too many games if it was all digital (steam is a good example, I've played less then 20% of the games I have bought on steam)....but...at least I wouldn't have them all taking up so much room in my house.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

1337mokro:
Gamer's everywhere cheered for the suffering this demonic giant of retail exploitation suffered. You can get used games ANYWHERE else, so not even that is worth going to gamestop and supporting this bottom feeding pimp of brick and mortar videogaming.

Oh wait they didn't make a loss? Well fuck guess we will have to continue with the gamestop bullshit.

Mad they wouldn't give you more than $4 for your five year old game?

They're not nearly as evil as people like to think they are. Almost everyone who attacks them usually had a bad experience with their admittedly lax employees. I've never had a problem with them.

gota lvoe people who jump to conclusions just because somone didnt like what they like.
Gamestop, like all retailers, are evil and should be done away with.

I don't care if gamestop is doing well or going under, after they sold me a warranty telling me, that as long as I don't take a hammer to it they will replace it and the pamphlet they had for it not having any exception for accidents, then when I bring back a non-working system with a crack they tell me it doesn't cover accidents only hardware failure. Essentially selling me what Sony gave me for free, that was the moment where I gave up on them, I forgave them for fucking up my pre-order for the collectors edition of Guild Wars 2, I forgave them for practically removing all PC games from their store, but this was to much bullshit.

The backpedaling after complaining to corporate was pretty funny though.

SadisticFire:

1337mokro:

Actually I never ever shopped there. Haven't even set a foot in one of their stores mostly because they are nowhere present in my country. So yeah... don't you feel silly for jumping to conclusions?

Shouldn't that mean you should...you know. Not make an opinion? Just my thought.

At any rate, I can't say I care too much. I mean it'll probably suck to me as a consumer as I can't get games anywhere else that I know of, other than the internet.

Do you need to kill someone else before you can form an opinion about murder? Didn't think so.

Of course I just went to the most extreme case of all, but why is direct experience required here when I have people that worked there tell me about the shady practices going on there. The same with GAME, never shopped there, but knew people who told me about it who also worked there.

You don't need to experience something before you can form a coherent opinion about it.

I refuse to believe there is not some mega store close to you, plus should that not show you how bad a Gamestop monopoly is when no other store can even set foot in your town because Gamestop has it locked down?

GAunderrated:

1337mokro:

GAunderrated:
As of right now Publishers are actively hurting the game industry far more than Gamestop can right now. Let that sink in for a minute. If you would have told me that 5 years ago I would have said bullshit. However, as of right now gamestop is the lesser evil by virtue of just not trying to outdo their evil crap.

Why not give it to e-bay... why give it to gamestop? You pretend like there is no choice there but I will guarantee if there is a Gamestop copy there is also an e-bay copy. Not to mention the hundreds of sites online selling retail copies below even used price on day one.

Like I said two evils. Still evil. Supporting one is never justified just to kill the other. You can stoop to the same level to kill it sure, but making one evil bigger so it can strong arm the other is not a solution you will just end up with a battered monster and one stronger than it was before conspiring together.

If you had told me that 5 years ago I would have told you the shit storm was a coming. I can't really see how the recession year would have been in anyway a good year to be hopeful about the games industry.

I'm sorry because I am going to be rude for a moment since you set off one of my pet peeves. Don't cut off someones quote if you are cutting out the PART THAT WAS ALREADY ANSWERED.

I've already said in the post you clipped that I havent bought anything from gamestop in years, actually use amazon and ebay for my used games more, and was just defending the priciple of going with gamestop over publishers if there was no choice.

Obviously there is a choice that's why I don't support either but the fact that you clipped my answer to your future post is just so disrespectful.

That was some mild mannered rudeness :D
You must be Clark Kent :D

Look my point was not to insinuate that you didn't, my point was that you made it out like it was some inevitability, like it would kill you to wait a few hours for your game to be delivered "when I need to". Why is Gamestop even on your list if you hate it so much? You COULD avoid it completely even when you are in such a bind where you just have to have a game now you CAN and WILL find a better deals on the internet for a physical copy or you can walk into one of the dozens of other stores that also sell used games.

There is no excuse left to visit a store that you do not want to support.

I asked no question that needed answering.

wulfy42:
There is no reason at all for anyone at this point to need physical copies of games, unless they are just flat broke and need to either pay for no internet (in which case they are probably going to have a hard time paying for games anyway).

You're throwing around a lot of numbers but I'm really not sure where they're coming from. A 95 percent broadband penetration rate strikes me as incredibly optimistic, and even if we assume that your 500kbps line qualifies (which is a stretch) it would take you roughly 24 hours - that's a full day - to download a 6GB game. And that's assuming no interruptions, no throttling, no unexplained hitches in bandwidth, AND that it doesn't dig too deeply into your download cap.

People in that position are in the minority, but at this point it's not such a small minority that retail can be dismissed as completely unnecessary. It is necessary for some people, and preferable for a lot more.

Strazdas:

Gamestop, like all retailers, are evil and should be done away with.

That's a little extreme, don't you think?

racrevel:

Trishbot:
snip

^^^ This

I wonder would a class action do anything? Supposing enough people around the globe were pissed enough to join in for the right to own a game they buy.

Well, I'm curious what people in Europe will do, since the courts have ruled, universally, throughout all of Europe, that EULAs are not binding or lawful, and that companies can NOT dictate to you whether you can or cannot resale your games, or limit how you do it.

So what Xbox One is doing is 100% unlawful in the ENTIRE continent of Europe...

... And even the United States has never stated that EULAs or anti-consumer limitations are binding, and several prominent cases have gone to court siding with the CONSUMERS in these matters to defend their right to the First Sale Doctrine (Vernor v. Autodesk, WGM v. Augusto, MYD v. Blizzard, etc.)

Andy Chalk:

wulfy42:
There is no reason at all for anyone at this point to need physical copies of games, unless they are just flat broke and need to either pay for no internet (in which case they are probably going to have a hard time paying for games anyway).

You're throwing around a lot of numbers but I'm really not sure where they're coming from. A 95 percent broadband penetration rate strikes me as incredibly optimistic, and even if we assume that your 500kbps line qualifies (which is a stretch) it would take you roughly 24 hours - that's a full day - to download a 6GB game. And that's assuming no interruptions, no throttling, no unexplained hitches in bandwidth, AND that it doesn't dig too deeply into your download cap.

People in that position are in the minority, but at this point it's not such a small minority that retail can be dismissed as completely unnecessary. It is necessary for some people, and preferable for a lot more.

I have not done extensive research into the subject, but I believe Dish Network is available in most areas for instance, and it offers reliable wireless internet for a fairly low price (by todays standards at least). The .5 mbps speed I had was....horrific. I live in a small town so there was no better options for a very long time. I am one of those people who had to make due with no high speed internet for a very long time. I was able to actually download games etc though just fine, but yes, it would take quite along time to do so. Some of the larger games (10+ gigs) would need to be going almost a day to download!!

Thing is, I have a 35mbps connection now, and everything downloads SO fast in comparison. It's awesome, and I love it. It also lets us stream movies live through direct TV, watch them stream on netflix on our ipads etc. It's great to have a semi-decent speed (still under the world wide average though).

My point is that anyone who can afford $50 a month (or at least a vast majority) can now afford to get at least 5 mbps , which costs $40 a month (with a bundle, $50 a month without). For 10$ more you can double the speed, and tripple it for @20 more.

That is 10x the speed I had with my horrid .5mbps verizon connection. I was able to download games like skyrim etc through steam just fine with the horrible slow connection I had, it just took awhile. The worst part about the speed for me was MMO's like Star wars knights of the old republic as it would make the game jumpy, especially in towns etc.

Anyway there may be some people out there who can not have a high speed internet connection, but the number has to be very low at this point. I know that only because I happen to live in a small town that had no options (And still doesn't have nearly as many as most places), and even here....I have finally been able to get a decent speed.

Like I said, a disc format should still be available for the next gen systems, but it should be an option, not the standard. We are past the point where needing physical copies for the majority of players is needed, and removing them would allow for lower prices and a larger profit for the actual creators of the games. It would of course kill the used sale industry, but I don't really think that is a bad thing. It would kill game rentals as well, but again, I think that is a good thing as it will support the gaming industry more, the actual creators of the games, instead of wasting money on retailers etc.

Having a disc format be optional, with a slight increase in price (possibly packaged with additional materials like maps etc...basically deluxe editions) makes far more sense now. I can't think of one person I know in real life who would not pick up a game in digital format if it was $10 cheaper right now.

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