World Of Warcraft's Raids Get More Flexible

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World Of Warcraft's Raids Get More Flexible

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The new "Flexible Raid System" allows raid groups of any size between 10 and 25 players, scaling with difficulty as group size increases.

Like playing World of Warcraft, but don't want to commit to the part-time job that is a full-time raiding guild? Want to raid with your friends but don't want to have to use strangers to fill the gaps when people can't make it? Good news! Provided you have between 10 and 25 friends, the new Flexible Raid system coming in patch 5.4 should be just right for you!

The difficulty level of the Flexible Raid system sits somewhere in-between regular raids and the matchmaking "Raid Finder" system. The new raid difficulty is for any group that has between 10 and 25 members, meaning if you have a regular raiding group of 15 players and two guys can't make it that night, you can still soldier on, as the system will scale the difficulty depending on how many players are in the group.

"To fill this void, we're in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together. This difficulty will be available for premade groups of 10-25 players, including any number in between. That means whether you have 11, 14, or 23 friends available for a Raid, they'll all be able to participate."

There is no Item Level restriction on this type of raid, but of course, there's no matchmaking involved so you will have to invite people you know. As for loot, Flexible mode will award loot with an Item Level that falls between Raid Finder and Normal quality, and will use the Raid Finder's "per person" loot system, specialization choices, and bonus rolls, so you won't need to worry about Frank from accounting tagging along on his rogue and stealing that piece of leather armor you've been wanting.

Flexible raids will unlock in wings, similar to Raid Finder, but faster. It's also on a completely separate lockout from Raid Finder and normal raids, so if you are particularly gung-ho about World of Warcraft you can raid three separate instances each week.

The new system should be available for testing on the PTR soon, and will ship with patch 5.4, which is estimated for release sometime in the coming months.

Source: Battle.net

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Let me know when it goes free to play, then we'll talk.

(I really hope it does... I miss WoW.)

Well, hopefully that means there will be fewer people I have to laugh at when they say they cant do something because their guild has a raid and needs them.

"Sorry man I cant make the wedding, it falls on my guilds raid night." -A real life quote from a pathetic excuse for a human being.

MrMixelPixel:
Let me know when it goes free to play, then we'll talk.

(I really hope it does... I miss WoW.)

I doubt that Blizzard is going to do that any time soon if at all what with all the moolah it still rakes in from just subs and not even taking into account the money they make on their own online store's sales, paid character services and their other games.

OT: Although it sounds like an interesting feature, it is kinda redundant when the people who take up most of your friends list are likely to be from/in your guild already (or on other servers, damned server transfers and emptying servers) and so you should already be set to raid the normal and heroic 10/25 versions of the dungeons (if you have enough people of course). Additionally having the item level lower than normal gear (and having the stats scale appropriately) does seem to be unnecessary as the base difficulty will most likely be on par with 10 man normal (and scale up from there) as I hardly expect them to base it on RF difficulty. What they should really be doing is creating some sort of system that allows people who are in fairly inactive guilds/are not in any guilds and want to raid to create raid groups which can be seen and browsed through by other players in a similar situation so that they may then opt to join in and take part. It would solve the issue of people wanting to run the 10 man normal and up versions of the raids when they are situation where they aren't able. Or alternatively people should just start advertising raid runs in trade chat again. I miss the days of when it was commonplace in Vanilla WoW and it does work well when going after World Bosses.

Desert Punk:
Well, hopefully that means there will be fewer people I have to laugh at when they say they cant do something because their guild has a raid and needs them.

"Sorry man I cant make the wedding, it falls on my guilds raid night." -A real life quote from a pathetic excuse for a human being.

My granddad did not attend his son's/my dad's wedding because he was busy scuba-diving.
I don't even.

OT: If "Flexible mode will award loot with an Item Level that falls between Raid Finder and Normal quality" means what I think it does it makes the whole thing pretty redundant if you're raiding for gear. But I'm not sure I've gotten the meaning there right.

The whole thing has become so bloated, they might as well just add a solo mode and let people do it on their own.

Its about damn time, people have only been trying to get Blizz to implement this since the Burning Crusade expansion. Being able to adjust the difficulty and challenge according to how many people attend the raid is an absolute no-brainer and should be in every raid/endgame MMO. I can't remember if any other MMOs did this but if WoW is doing it, there is a good chance others will follow and that would be good.

Desert Punk:
Well, hopefully that means there will be fewer people I have to laugh at when they say they cant do something because their guild has a raid and needs them.

"Sorry man I cant make the wedding, it falls on my guilds raid night." -A real life quote from a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Yeah, I had a group of friends who were part of a guild that raided on Friday nights. Friday nights being the time a lot of people, y'know, hang out? Have parties? Their constant refusal to go to events because of fucking raids formed my intense loathing of WoW.

LOTRO has been doing this for ages.

Except that LOTRO has only 2/3/6/12 versions of "skirmishes", with nothing in-between. They are also offering pathetic level of challenge, with an option to switch to Tier 2 or Tier 3 - which only bumps up stats a little with no significant recognition in terms of rewards. So people were and are farming only Tier 1.

Not to mention constant issues with itemization and challenge:reward, but hey, that's one of their trademarks by now. It is also true about the "normal" group content, but those dungeons, with some random and very limited exceptions, do NOT scale to match the number of players.

The biggest problem with raiding is they still have a difference in loot quality between the normal and the flexible modes. There shouldn't be three to four tiers of raid loot and it makes me scratch my head why they aren't just using the upgrade system and have pre-upgraded versions drop in the higher difficulties. If they want the game to feel accessible, everyone should be able to eventually reach the highest level of raid loot whether they do heroic raiding or not.

Colt47:
The biggest problem with raiding is they still have a difference in loot quality between the normal and the flexible modes. There shouldn't be three to four tiers of raid loot and it makes me scratch my head why they aren't just using the upgrade system and have pre-upgraded versions drop in the higher difficulties. If they want the game to feel accessible, everyone should be able to eventually reach the highest level of raid loot whether they do heroic raiding or not.

4 tiers? Hah, there's like... eleven. I'll admit it's been a few years and I never raided a whole lot so I may have added more tiers than there are in raid finder but if memory serves there'll now be:

Dungeon
Dungeon Heroic
10-Man Raid Finder
10-Man Heroic Raid Finder
25-Man Raid Finder
25-Man Heroic Raid Finder
Flexible Raid
10-Man Normal
10-Man Normal Heroic
25-Man Normal
25-Man Normal Heroic

I put dungeons in there as it is technically part of endgame, but even without those that's still 9 tiers...

While I get why people are somewhat against this, I honestly really like it. In my personal experience, it was always a pain to fill in those last few spots in a 25 man and in 10 having to rotate people in and out for certain boss fights.

Lots of people not really grasping the finer details of this. But that's cool. You don't play at the moment so you sadly have no idea what you're banging on about.

I like this idea. I hope it totally makes LFR redundant ultimately. LFR is a total travesty of what the game has to offer.

But this, Is limited to friends, Real ID friends (Can pull people from other servers as long as you love them), and Server, and allows for an easier schedule with no rigid amount of players. Good step in the right direction.

Just please kill LFR, that's all I ask, easier raids are a good thing but this anonymity protection and douchenozzlry that LFR allows and encourages has utterly drained the Normal/Heroic raiding scene of candidates. I hope more will be willing to run this (It will have better gear) and then realize. 'Hey maybe moving up to normal or heroic might not be so hard with some work!'

It's the kind of thing 10man normals in Wrath encouraged and Raids had never been more popular and run by all.

There are SO MANY on my server who've been pushed off of raiding because of the Cata/Mists difficulty spike. Once proud raiding guilds moved off server or abandoned to casual play. They want to raid, and my guild and one other does offer a 'last tier puggable' 25man on the weekends but... Nothing more than that.

Bernzz:

Yeah, I had a group of friends who were part of a guild that raided on Friday nights. Friday nights being the time a lot of people, y'know, hang out? Have parties? Their constant refusal to go to events because of fucking raids formed my intense loathing of WoW.

Your friends had a stupid guild then. All of my raid nights are Monday, Wednesday, Thursday. Weekends are totally out of the question. You can play a bit during the day if you're bored obviously and ACTUALLY have nothing to do, but no schedules.

Khadhar:

Dungeon
Dungeon Heroic
10-Man Raid Finder
10-Man Heroic Raid Finder
25-Man Raid Finder
25-Man Heroic Raid Finder
Flexible Raid
10-Man Normal
10-Man Normal Heroic
25-Man Normal
25-Man Normal Heroic

Utterly wrong. Here's what goes on now.

Scenarios (3man Random Teams) Blue Gear
Heroic Scenarios (3man Structured Teams) Blue gear, random chance at lesser Purple
Normal Dungeon (5man Random Teams) Blue Gear
Heroic Dungeon (5man Random/Structured Teams) Higher iLevel Blue gear
Challenge Mode Dungeon (5man Structured Team, Extremely difficult) Mount and Glamour Armor Reward
LFR (25 'Raid' Only, Random Team, Extremely Easy) Low iLevel Purple Gear
Normal (10 or 25 'Raid', Structured, Mildly Difficult) Standard ilevel Purple Gear, Chance at slightly high iLevel
HEROIC (10 or 25 'Raid', Structured, Very Difficult) High ilevel Purple Gear, Chance at best items in game.

This is it now. You'll notice in between LFR and Normal there is now a slight gap in ability.

LFR's can be slept through. I'm not joking please observe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

Normals however require Vent/Mumble/TS, planning, structured times and very competent players.

There's a niche, some want some challenge without asking that much of them.

Khadhar:

Colt47:
The biggest problem with raiding is they still have a difference in loot quality between the normal and the flexible modes. There shouldn't be three to four tiers of raid loot and it makes me scratch my head why they aren't just using the upgrade system and have pre-upgraded versions drop in the higher difficulties. If they want the game to feel accessible, everyone should be able to eventually reach the highest level of raid loot whether they do heroic raiding or not.

4 tiers? Hah, there's like... eleven. I'll admit it's been a few years and I never raided a whole lot so I may have added more tiers than there are in raid finder but if memory serves there'll now be:

Dungeon
Dungeon Heroic
10-Man Raid Finder
10-Man Heroic Raid Finder
25-Man Raid Finder
25-Man Heroic Raid Finder
Flexible Raid
10-Man Normal
10-Man Normal Heroic
25-Man Normal
25-Man Normal Heroic

I put dungeons in there as it is technically part of endgame, but even without those that's still 9 tiers...

Raid Finder is only 25 man now, and only has one difficulty (easier than normal mode). Also, 10 man and 25 man are no longer deemed seperate tiers because they share lockouts, so the only raid tiers now are (from easiest to hardest) LFR-Flex-Normal-Heroic.

In terms of dungeons, they've added challenge modes which are harder than heroic dungeons, timed with medals for fast completion, and also downgrade your gear to a set item level.

Desert Punk:
Well, hopefully that means there will be fewer people I have to laugh at when they say they cant do something because their guild has a raid and needs them.

"Sorry man I cant make the wedding, it falls on my guilds raid night." -A real life quote from a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Its strange how much WoW gets defended. Just about every ex player I know hates the game and still wants to go back to it, just a little bit. Hell, the only player I know who STILL plays it... Is not level capped because he just uses the game as a glorified chat room.

I hate WoW. The amount of time and money that game has stolen from me is phenomenal. If I had spent that time playing the Piano... Jeesus.

The things I skipped. Nothing like a wedding. But when I was 18, split between my ex-fiance and World of Warcraft, I had almost no time for actual life.

OT: Dunno what I think about the above. I was a raider back in the day, its not that hard to find a sensible raiding guild. I did like the LFG system when it was first released but imo, WoW died with Cataclysm.

Well, that's actually really nice. It's almost enough to make me go back. Almost, but not quite. Not because of the game or anything, just that it's still impossible for me to meet a regular raid schedule between work and Uni. I do miss the days that I could. I really enjoyed raiding. Doubt I'll ever be able to again though.

Charli:
Lots of people not really grasping the finer details of this. But that's cool. You don't play at the moment so you sadly have no idea what you're banging on about.

Utterly wrong. Here's what goes on now.

You quoted him, but clearly you did not grasp the point of his post, that there is more to WoW than 4 tiers.

This is going to be really good, all things considered. My guild is mostly focused on 10 man, and we're doing heroic mode as well, but sometimes it feels like we're leaving people out because of the size restriction.

We don't have the people to do 25 man raids simply because we consider ourselves a "casual" guild. People can't make our raid times due to work, family etc. This flexibility should be good as it lets us add a couple extra people to the raid, without the obligation of following size constraints and give them an opportunity to play.

Not sure how I feel about this change. I remember before WoW came out how my 6 other IRL friends and myself who wanted to play WoW were trying to scheme up how best we could RAID together for the multitude of dungeons that were 5-man affairs. We would have welcomed greater difficulty if we could have had all 7 of us working on a dungeon like Deadmines or SM.

On the other hand, A lot of what I liked about early WoW, and what made it stand out was the tediousness disguised as difficulty (or maybe it goes the other way around). Admit it, even when you had 40 people with you running UBRS or running through BRD to MC, someone pulled a mob just right and wiped the whole group. The herding cats mantra was something that made communication and coordination important (to say nothing of gear).

Now I'm going on way too long about this topic this is really just a little change to a game that has gone trough thousands of little changes over the years morphing it from one thing to another. In a lot of ways, WoW at its core was meeting up with your friends, and adventuring with thousands of like-minded nerds for PvP or PvE jollies... that's still there, but it's a different formula.

TLDR? My cat's breath smells like cat poop

llagrok:

Charli:
Lots of people not really grasping the finer details of this. But that's cool. You don't play at the moment so you sadly have no idea what you're banging on about.

Utterly wrong. Here's what goes on now.

You quoted him, but clearly you did not grasp the point of his post, that there is more to WoW than 4 tiers.

The point of his post was sound but he was still incorrect, and technically there are 3 tiers of raiding only, which is what this topic is about. Scenarios and Dungeons are endgame content to a very small minority since LFR is accessible to anyone who can use a keyboard.

I quoted him to clarify the uninitiated from being mislead.

Charli:

Utterly wrong. Here's what goes on now.

Scenarios (3man Random Teams) Blue Gear
Heroic Scenarios (3man Structured Teams) Blue gear, random chance at lesser Purple
Normal Dungeon (5man Random Teams) Blue Gear
Heroic Dungeon (5man Random/Structured Teams) Higher iLevel Blue gear
Challenge Mode Dungeon (5man Structured Team, Extremely difficult) Mount and Glamour Armor Reward
LFR (25 'Raid' Only, Random Team, Extremely Easy) Low iLevel Purple Gear
Normal (10 or 25 'Raid', Structured, Mildly Difficult) Standard ilevel Purple Gear, Chance at slightly high iLevel
HEROIC (10 or 25 'Raid', Structured, Very Difficult) High ilevel Purple Gear, Chance at best items in game.

This is it now. You'll notice in between LFR and Normal there is now a slight gap in ability.

LFR's can be slept through. I'm not joking please observe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

Normals however require Vent/Mumble/TS, planning, structured times and very competent players.

There's a niche, some want some challenge without asking that much of them.

Ah, yes, that is different. Still, that's quite a few tiers regardless...

I think the issue is you need that goldilocks modicum of tiers that it's enough to keep people of various skill entertained without making it seem like your punishing lower tier people, and make a number of tiers that doesn't look like a daunting staircase that could take you forever to ascend.

Sort of amusing. The MMO that redefined instant gratification, The MMO that always stood as "MMO Kindergarten" that acted to ease newcomers into MMO existence, found that their content designed to keep players playing at the endgame, to grant some measure of challenge to players so to hinder flash burning through content... was deemed too unforgiving, in need of greater accessibility and thus the bar has been lowered to a low beyond imagining.

Like WOW or not, this is NOT a good idea for any MMO. If you need proof, simply look at The Old Republic and how well being "too" easy benefitted that game as players ran through the content in a month or less and then ran out the door like rats evacuating a sinking ship. In TORs case it was a tragedy to have such a massive production befall such a fate out the gate. For WoW at least it is little more than another nail in the coffin that is the natural progressive rise and fall of major MMOs.

A raid system whose difficulty scales based on the number of players nearby? That sounds a lot like Guild Wars 2, actually.

I know they lost a number of players to GW2 early on, but I figured most of them had gone back by now. Are they still losing people to GW2 in significant enough numbers that WoW feels it has to appeal to that crowd now? That's....a little surprising.

viranimus:
Like WOW or not, this is NOT a good idea for any MMO. If you need proof, simply look at The Old Republic and how well being "too" easy benefitted that game as players ran through the content in a month or less and then ran out the door like rats evacuating a sinking ship.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. TOR is built more like WoW than anything else, which is the reason it failed: players blew through the content, never got attached to the game (because it played a lot like WoW), so they just went back to WoW. It would be like Nicorette shaping their gum like cigarettes and their packaging like a carton of smokes: if the best impression your product leaves is "why'd I ever quit that other product I enjoyed?", you did it wrong.

This isn't an attempt to turn WoW into TOR, it's actually a lot closer to GW2's system of scalable content. Which is a GOOD model.

Charli:

It's the kind of thing 10man normals in Wrath encouraged and Raids had never been more popular and run by all.

And the funny part is that all of the 'purists' from Vanilla or Burning Crusade raged about how "dumbed down" everything was...

Bernzz:

Yeah, I had a group of friends who were part of a guild that raided on Friday nights. Friday nights being the time a lot of people, y'know, hang out? Have parties? Their constant refusal to go to events because of fucking raids formed my intense loathing of WoW.

Charli:

Your friends had a stupid guild then. All of my raid nights are Monday, Wednesday, Thursday. Weekends are totally out of the question. You can play a bit during the day if you're bored obviously and ACTUALLY have nothing to do, but no schedules.

Hang on, what's wrong with raiding on weekends? You people do know that raiding is still another way of socializing, right? Especially if it's a full group of people who know each other. It's no different than going down to the pub, or out to the cinema.

Hell, I don't even like parties. I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I'd rather play a video game than go to a party. Don't blame the game for it, it's just how I am because I think that getting stupid at a party is a waste of time. Maybe try taking an interest in their hobbies instead of expecting them to conform to yours.

shrekfan246:

Charli:

It's the kind of thing 10man normals in Wrath encouraged and Raids had never been more popular and run by all.

And the funny part is that all of the 'purists' from Vanilla or Burning Crusade raged about how "dumbed down" everything was...

Bernzz:

Yeah, I had a group of friends who were part of a guild that raided on Friday nights. Friday nights being the time a lot of people, y'know, hang out? Have parties? Their constant refusal to go to events because of fucking raids formed my intense loathing of WoW.

Charli:

Your friends had a stupid guild then. All of my raid nights are Monday, Wednesday, Thursday. Weekends are totally out of the question. You can play a bit during the day if you're bored obviously and ACTUALLY have nothing to do, but no schedules.

Hang on, what's wrong with raiding on weekends? You people do know that raiding is still another way of socializing, right? Especially if it's a full group of people who know each other. It's no different than going down to the pub, or out to the cinema.

Hell, I don't even like parties. I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I'd rather play a video game than go to a party. Don't blame the game for it, it's just how I am because I think that getting stupid at a party is a waste of time. Maybe try taking an interest in their hobbies instead of expecting them to conform to yours.

Oh don't get me wrong I am one of those weekenders myself (currently LFRing my druid to prepare for flex alt raiding), however being accommodating to people who ARE weekend party/in person socialites, I believe is healthy for allowing many different types of people the ability to thrive in a guild. And during hard progression we will raid Sundays as well, but as with anything we can pre-plan those for said weekend-party folk weeks in advance and it doesn't mess up their fun too badly.

And yes you are correct, many of us enjoy just chatting to our fellow gamers over vent/mumble/TS, and get just as much out of it as one would a night out on the town. However many do not and will never understand or accept that as a reasonable alternative.

Khadhar:

Colt47:
The biggest problem with raiding is they still have a difference in loot quality between the normal and the flexible modes. There shouldn't be three to four tiers of raid loot and it makes me scratch my head why they aren't just using the upgrade system and have pre-upgraded versions drop in the higher difficulties. If they want the game to feel accessible, everyone should be able to eventually reach the highest level of raid loot whether they do heroic raiding or not.

4 tiers? Hah, there's like... eleven. I'll admit it's been a few years and I never raided a whole lot so I may have added more tiers than there are in raid finder but if memory serves there'll now be:

Dungeon
Dungeon Heroic
10-Man Raid Finder
10-Man Heroic Raid Finder
25-Man Raid Finder
25-Man Heroic Raid Finder
Flexible Raid
10-Man Normal
10-Man Normal Heroic
25-Man Normal
25-Man Normal Heroic

I put dungeons in there as it is technically part of endgame, but even without those that's still 9 tiers...

Wrong concept. I'm talking about concurrent item level of end game raid gear. The same tier now is going to have Raid Finder level, Flexi-finder level, Normal Level, and heroic level. Why they need this many I don't know. My complaint is that they got item upgrades and are ignoring the possibility of just scrapping this entire forced raid item level. Just have a higher difficulty award pre-upgraded gear. That way even if someone can only find the time to do raid finder they can still have a hope of getting to the heroic level gear set.

Nile McMorrow:

I doubt that Blizzard is going to do that any time soon if at all what with all the moolah it still rakes in from just subs and not even taking into account the money they make on their own online store's sales, paid character services and their other games.

Oh I know. They'll likely never have a good reason to. Even if the keep dropping subscribers like flies. Even they drop a million subscribers every year for the next three years, they'll still likely be making more than enough money to justify their subscription fee.

I'm just a man with a dream is all.

Desert Punk:
Well, hopefully that means there will be fewer people I have to laugh at when they say they cant do something because their guild has a raid and needs them.

"Sorry man I cant make the wedding, it falls on my guilds raid night." -A real life quote from a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Having friends that rely on you, how dare they. God, I'm glad some people have real reasons for not being able to make it, like lying, playing football, tennis, you know, usual normal person stuff.

Mr F.:

Desert Punk:
Well, hopefully that means there will be fewer people I have to laugh at when they say they cant do something because their guild has a raid and needs them.

"Sorry man I cant make the wedding, it falls on my guilds raid night." -A real life quote from a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Its strange how much WoW gets defended. Just about every ex player I know hates the game and still wants to go back to it, just a little bit. Hell, the only player I know who STILL plays it... Is not level capped because he just uses the game as a glorified chat room.

I hate WoW. The amount of time and money that game has stolen from me is phenomenal. If I had spent that time playing the Piano... Jeesus.

The things I skipped. Nothing like a wedding. But when I was 18, split between my ex-fiance and World of Warcraft, I had almost no time for actual life.

OT: Dunno what I think about the above. I was a raider back in the day, its not that hard to find a sensible raiding guild. I did like the LFG system when it was first released but imo, WoW died with Cataclysm.

I like how you blame the game for your inability to manage your time.

shrekfan246:
Hang on, what's wrong with raiding on weekends? You people do know that raiding is still another way of socializing, right? Especially if it's a full group of people who know each other. It's no different than going down to the pub, or out to the cinema.

Hell, I don't even like parties. I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I'd rather play a video game than go to a party. Don't blame the game for it, it's just how I am because I think that getting stupid at a party is a waste of time. Maybe try taking an interest in their hobbies instead of expecting them to conform to yours.

This was like, every weekend. Like, literally every weekend for a huge gap of time. And they loved parties. They get more stupid at them than I do, so it's not like they hate them. Also, WoW never remotely interested me. When it happens every weekend, you tend to get a little sick of it.

Bernzz:

shrekfan246:
Hang on, what's wrong with raiding on weekends? You people do know that raiding is still another way of socializing, right? Especially if it's a full group of people who know each other. It's no different than going down to the pub, or out to the cinema.

Hell, I don't even like parties. I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I'd rather play a video game than go to a party. Don't blame the game for it, it's just how I am because I think that getting stupid at a party is a waste of time. Maybe try taking an interest in their hobbies instead of expecting them to conform to yours.

This was like, every weekend. Like, literally every weekend for a huge gap of time. And they loved parties. They get more stupid at them than I do, so it's not like they hate them. Also, WoW never remotely interested me. When it happens every weekend, you tend to get a little sick of it.

That'd be because, you know, raids reset every week.

Loath as I am to make comparisons between a game and anything actually serious, let's take a hypothetical here: You're single, and you've got a friend who isn't single. Every Friday night, you ask this friend to go hang out and do stuff, and every Friday night he turns you down because it's date night. Who are you angry at? The girlfriend, for keeping him busy on "party night"; the friend, for having committed himself to doing something aside from going out on "party night"; or just nothing and everything in general because things aren't going your way?

World of Warcraft may just be a game, but raiding is generally a pretty significant commitment. One night a week is almost the bare minimum of what a guild could do to actually keep up with the stream of content being released, unless they're all just really excellent players. You may not be interested in it, you may not find it a proper source of socialization, you may think anybody who plays the game on a regular basis is an idiot, but everyone doesn't feel the same way as you do. In fact, crazy as it may sound, some people might actually like raiding every week! I know, it's insane. Who the hell would want to get together with 9+ other people every week to hang out and joke around while beating up neat bosses? God, those people should just stop playing that game entirely.

shrekfan246:

Bernzz:

shrekfan246:
Hang on, what's wrong with raiding on weekends? You people do know that raiding is still another way of socializing, right? Especially if it's a full group of people who know each other. It's no different than going down to the pub, or out to the cinema.

Hell, I don't even like parties. I can't speak for anyone else, obviously, but I'd rather play a video game than go to a party. Don't blame the game for it, it's just how I am because I think that getting stupid at a party is a waste of time. Maybe try taking an interest in their hobbies instead of expecting them to conform to yours.

This was like, every weekend. Like, literally every weekend for a huge gap of time. And they loved parties. They get more stupid at them than I do, so it's not like they hate them. Also, WoW never remotely interested me. When it happens every weekend, you tend to get a little sick of it.

That'd be because, you know, raids reset every week.

Loath as I am to make comparisons between a game and anything actually serious, let's take a hypothetical here: You're single, and you've got a friend who isn't single. Every Friday night, you ask this friend to go hang out and do stuff, and every Friday night he turns you down because it's date night. Who are you angry at? The girlfriend, for keeping him busy on "party night"; the friend, for having committed himself to doing something aside from going out on "party night"; or just nothing and everything in general because things aren't going your way?

World of Warcraft may just be a game, but raiding is generally a pretty significant commitment. One night a week is almost the bare minimum of what a guild could do to actually keep up with the stream of content being released, unless they're all just really excellent players. You may not be interested in it, you may not find it a proper source of socialization, you may think anybody who plays the game on a regular basis is an idiot, but everyone doesn't feel the same way as you do. In fact, crazy as it may sound, some people might actually like raiding every week! I know, it's insane. Who the hell would want to get together with 9+ other people every week to hang out and joke around while beating up neat bosses? God, those people should just stop playing that game entirely.

From experience, it rarely is a bunch of people getting together to joke around as much as listening to one guy give instructions for a boss and then watch as the group dies repeatedly to said boss, invoking the ire of the instructional leader until finally there is a break through and it dies. The thrill of raiding comes from the sense of accomplishment more than anything else.

Colt47:

From experience, it rarely is a bunch of people getting together to joke around as much as listening to one guy give instructions for a boss and then watch as the group dies repeatedly to said boss, invoking the ire of the instructional leader until finally there is a break through and it dies. The thrill of raiding comes from the sense of accomplishment more than anything else.

Then you haven't been grouping with fun enough guilds. Unless you're talking solely about "progression" raiding, which admittedly is often far more serious. Still, a friendly enough guild won't just be sullen and quiet during a raid, at least not in my experiences. I've never been in a guild that didn't joke around between boss fights, and when I was in more relaxed guilds they'd often go at whatever pace they wanted, saying hell to the progression curve and just having fun instead of burning out on smashing against a brick wall for three hours a night.

I still love to run old raids just for the fun of it. It's unfortunate that it seems less and less people are interested in going back to content of past expansions as time goes on, because there are still a fair few bosses from back in Burning Crusade and on whose mechanics mean that you can't solo them, even though gear far outstrips the actual difficulty of them now.

CriticKitten:
Are they still losing people to GW2 in significant enough numbers that WoW feels it has to appeal to that crowd now? That's....a little surprising.

I think you answered your own question.

This isn't an attempt to turn WoW into TOR, it's actually a lot closer to GW2's system of scalable content. Which is a GOOD model.

If it's a good model, use it. Doesn't matter if they're continuing to lose players or those players are coming back.

side note: fucking The Sub ads, get the FUCK OUT OF MY TEXT BOX! >.<

marurder:
LOTRO has been doing this for ages.

Hasn't every MMO been doing this since launch? The whole thing smacks less of 'great new feature in WoW' and more 'WoW is finally doing something every one else has been doing for years now.'

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