nilcypher:

rayman 101:
Wow... one guy says that mgs4 is "passive entertainment" and everybody is on him, but when yahtzee disses the game for 5 minutes, nobody harldy cares.

Yes, but we like Yahtzee.

Indeed we do, but I think it becomes clear that Yahtzee is as much of a comedian as he is a critic (not, of course, that he doesn't often come up with valid criticisms).

MGS4 is a very well put together game experience, but, like they said, the amount of cutscenes "raised eyebrows." There's nothing wrong with this save perhaps the dialogue needed redundancy editing to trim it down, but that was more during exposition sequences than action.

Gears of War... it's basically something like "Predator," or "The Scorpion King" for video games. It provides a different kind of entertainment. A more mindless adrenaline kind reserved for action films when you don't want to think and just want more explosions.

Despite my hopes, I think that CliffyB might be right. It seems that often times really excellent story, characters, and dialogue can take the back burner to pretty graphics (Crysis), intense gameplay (Dark Sector, Painkiller, Condemned 2), a desire for open-ended/sandbox gameplay (Fable), or to physics puzzles (Half-Life 2). Just kidding about that last one.

The thing of it is, Cliff wasn't dissing MGS4. He didn't call it a bad game, he said it wasn't what they were making. In realistic terms, MGS4 really is the opposite of Gears of War while staying in the same third-person shooter genre. Gears has always been focused more on gameplay than story, while MGS has always been the opposite.

"Metal Gear Solid is our example of the game we're not doing," he added. "Passive entertainment is on its way out - you need to hook up with this web 2.0 stuff."

Tell me where he says MGS is a bad game in that quote.

Don't start ranting because he's dissing the game because he isn't, he's merely pointing out that people are getting tired of story-based "action" games as the gaming population shifts from select to mainstream.

Sethran:
The thing of it is, Cliff wasn't dissing MGS4. He didn't call it a bad game, he said it wasn't what they were making. In realistic terms, MGS4 really is the opposite of Gears of War while staying in the same third-person shooter genre. Gears has always been focused more on gameplay than story, while MGS has always been the opposite.

"Metal Gear Solid is our example of the game we're not doing," he added. "Passive entertainment is on its way out - you need to hook up with this web 2.0 stuff."

Tell me where he says MGS is a bad game in that quote.

Don't start ranting because he's dissing the game because he isn't, he's merely pointing out that people are getting tired of story-based "action" games as the gaming population shifts from select to mainstream.

My problem is that he tries to speak for everyone. I'm certainly not tired of this "passive" crap. Niether are the other millions of people that love MGS4 more than his game. I think he just has his panties in a bunch because a "passive" game is garnering more love than his precious "Web 2.0" shit,

I don't think his panties are in a bunch at all. I think people are just trying to twist what he said out of context, so that they can then go on their 'MGS4 is teh greatest game EVAR!!!!!' crusade.

The dude just name-checked another game for christ sake.

I don't see what the big deal is about a game having a long intro, with the 8 minute installation once you've hit "New Game" the intro is only 15 minutes, and hell I remember seeing those Gekko way earlier than 23 minutes, but now that I remember that "Television" thing I could be wrong.

Also, I just can't comment on this article, I can't believe Cliff goes out of his way and makes a fool of himself like this, I expect another penny arcade strip making fun of him.

Besides remember when "Itagaki" was talking about how Ninja Gaiden 2 would shape the face of gaming and makes "Devil May Cry 4 look bad" and "Is better than Ninja Gaiden Sigma which has no evolution" (and Ironically, on the back of NJS's box it says "THE REAL REASON YOU BOUGHT A PS3!!!) - Gears 2 looks like it's going to be good but all these stupid attacks just make us think like they are trying too hard.

that's a cheap shot and an old trick.

Mention something well respected and pretend to critic it as if you've already surpassed it "coughkillzonecoughcoughhalocaugh"

Alright skimming through, what is the point of this article? If all he is doing is saying "We don't make games like MGS4" then this is just a waste of everyone's time, did anyone expect GeOW2 to have long cutscenes or something? Sorry for my density but I've missed the point thanks to the headline and the "passive entertainment" comment.

The 'point' is that people feel like being on the defensive about MSG4, just because Cliff said that he doesn't make games like that and that the style of hour long cutscenes is going out of style.

Again, people, he didn't take any 'cheap shots' at the game, nor did he critic it, he just said that he wasn't making a game like it and that it's going out of style. Not that it is out of style immediately right now you will start hating the game, but that it's getting old and in all respect, it really is getting old. It's a classic form of video game, not a modern one, and like Snake is getting on in it's years.

Guys, this article is from 30 Jun 2008 11:00 am. I mean, we all know that CliffyB is a douche and what not, but it's the past let it go.

But last time I checked (which was a while ago) the MG(S) series have sold more than the GeOW serieses. It seems people do like "passive entertainment" nowadays.

Well if this is going to turn into a cutscene debate, I'll admit that it's going "out of style" but it's only being replaced with real-time cutscenes in which you still do nothing but just watch what happens while controlling your characters head, and maybe have a quicktime event to deal with, until we get rid of scripting in general we're going to have cutscenes, whether they be 10 minutes or 100 minutes - Mass Effect and The Witcher did something with that (yet ME still had unskippable cutscenes which were annoying) but they are RPG's so it's all about "multiple choice/say what you want" - which I don't see happening in GeOW - and hell it wouldn't even work well with Gears, and it also had those cutscenes (if you want to call them that) where your character just puts his hand on his ear, listens to the radio chatter, and you control him walking slowly forward - and sometimes Mass Effect's "dialog system" just padded the length because all 3 choices would have said the same thing - overall cutscenes have taken a different form but they are still there. It's like everyone is expecting games to become actual VR this November.

We complain about cutscenes, unlockable content, linearity, repetition, pretty or ugly graphics, realism, etc. - do we just not like games anymore?

"23 cocking minutes" - Yahztzee is famous!!!!

It isnt even a good story, I played the game and got bored with it, sorry.

Like CliffyB's opinion even fucking matters. If people like it, people like it.

Jumplion:
Guys, this article is from 30 Jun 2008 11:00 am. I mean, we all know that CliffyB is a douche and what not, but it's the past let it go.

But last time I checked (which was a while ago) the MG(S) series have sold more than the GeOW serieses. It seems people do like "passive entertainment" nowadays.

MGS4 was great. Not sure you can knock it, especially coming from a game where the formula was:

1) Shoot stuff
2) See 1

mitsoxfan:

Jumplion:
Guys, this article is from 30 Jun 2008 11:00 am. I mean, we all know that CliffyB is a douche and what not, but it's the past let it go.

But last time I checked (which was a while ago) the MG(S) series have sold more than the GeOW serieses. It seems people do like "passive entertainment" nowadays.

MGS4 was great. Not sure you can knock it, especially coming from a game where the formula was:

1) Shoot stuff
2) See 1

Oh yeah, i loved MGS4 best game i've ever played. Unfortunately i can't make the asusmtion that GeOW is just shooting because my jackass of a friend hates single player campaigns and wouldn't let me play.

Jumplion:
Oh yeah, i loved MGS4 best game i've ever played. Unfortunately i can't make the asusmtion that GeOW is just shooting because my jackass of a friend hates single player campaigns and wouldn't let me play.

Well, you occasionally have to flip switches.

Oh, and shoot switches too.

Honestly, I don't care, it changes nothing.

Meh, this whole topic is a battle of opinions. It should probably be locked, nothing new really.

Jumplion:

mitsoxfan:

Jumplion:
Guys, this article is from 30 Jun 2008 11:00 am. I mean, we all know that CliffyB is a douche and what not, but it's the past let it go.

But last time I checked (which was a while ago) the MG(S) series have sold more than the GeOW serieses. It seems people do like "passive entertainment" nowadays.

MGS4 was great. Not sure you can knock it, especially coming from a game where the formula was:

1) Shoot stuff
2) See 1

Oh yeah, i loved MGS4 best game i've ever played. Unfortunately i can't make the asusmtion that GeOW is just shooting because my jackass of a friend hates single player campaigns and wouldn't let me play.

Don't get me wrong, Gears was a good FPS. Probably one of the better ones I've played not named 'Call of Duty 4'.

But it's just a shooter with a canned 'aliens invade earth' type story and a gimmick (the cover mechanic, which did redefine cover mechanics). But really, was it any better than Prey?

Anyway, I agree with Crap_HaT, it changes nothing, and if CliffyB wants to knock Kojima, he can go ahead and try. That's like me knocking Tolstoy because I think this post is way cooler than War and Peace. MY post even has l33t speak! PWND!!!1 Take that, Leo!

h1ryu:
Gears of War brought in the cover system???

Never got my head around that on cause it has been in many games before it, (and used just as well), Kill.Switch and Syphon Filter Dark Mirror spring to mind to name but 2...

most FPS have cover system [get behind something, push crouch button]

I'm frankly don't care what he had to say. MGS4 fans get to enjoy their game, and GeOW fans get to feed into their need to shoot ugly sub-terrain alien things while hiding behind conveniently-placed slabs of concrete. In the end, is one game affected? Like a few others have said, this is just one man's opinion, so dismiss it as such and move on.

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