18-Hour Final Fantasy XI Boss Induces Puking Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 | |
ADD = being unable to play a video game for 18+ hours straight? Must've missed that memo... | |
I didn't say I approve of the content's original difficulty, but I certainly understand the rationale behind it. Go figure, I've been dealing with it for the last 6+ years. But just to put it in perspective, a good game of Battlefield 3 can last anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes. Even 30+ for rush. So if he's truly only capable of playing a game in 15 minute intervals, I'd call that ADD. Frankly I'm amazed he lasted long enough in WoW to even get to endgame. Most impatient gamers don't usually take a liking to MMO's, you know, being that they're all time sinks and that's the point. | |
You misread his post. He said he was tired of the 15 minute boss fight, which could mean a number of things (for example, that it was a boring fight, or that he doesn't like boss fights much, or w/e). Assuming that because someone gets bored after doing something for 15 minutes, he must have ADD, is pretty ridiculous. Also, he never said that a good game should only have 15 minute boss fights. He said that it shouldn't have 18 hour ones. | |
The difference between our posts is that you gave him the benefit of the doubt, I didn't. As for what could be infered by his statement, let's take a look at that. Deathwing is a boring fight? While I don't know nearly as much about WoW as him or possibly you, I would hope that being that he's supposed to be one of the harder bosses, that they actually make the fight fun. If he just isn't a fan of boss fights? then that's a natural bias in his opinion that invalidates it in this discussion. As for my assumption, it's really not that hard to see that if he's getting bored after 15 minutes he could have ADD. It's the reason behind the boredom that would make our little debate definitive or not. If he's bored because his attentiont span is too short, then it's in my favor. If he's bored because he's done it a thousand times, that's understandable. But you know what? Screw the personal attack, I'll just pick apart his arguement as a whole. The rationale behind the 18 hour boss fight is actually good game design. It's what makes games like Dark Souls so fulfilling when you actually succeed. SE's design when creating those 2 bosses was that these are not bosses that they want everyone killing. Those bosses were meant to be killed by the .01% of the playerbase, the elite of the elite. Why? So that when someone actually did kill them, it meant something (relatively speaking.) But 18 hours? Yes, that's a step too far. Which is why this is newsworthy in the first place. They've since toned it down to much more reasonable levels while still maintaining the difficulty. Only after the cap increase and Alexander did the 2 become somewhat mediocre. They're still hard, and people still fail at them all the time, but now they're actually farmable to any good group. tl;dr | |
they obviously forgot to data drain the thing. they could have saved themselves 17.5 hours and actually killed it without anyone getting sick. | |
In this case, "Hardcore" is just a euphemism for "Fucking retarded". | |
There are MMORPGs that do that. I think Grand Fantasia did regular bosses the best (although the games gone to shit unfortunately ); namely the instances you run with a party. These bosses can be taken down in under a minute in theory, but often take hours because of heals, insta-kill attacks, monster summons and massive buffs/debuffs (sometimes all at once, summoned mobs, that debuffed you on-hit and made your attacks do healing instead of damage for a while). | |
See also the article about Japanese games failing in the west. Maybe, just maybe, some game design tenants still quite common in Asian MMORPGs (grinding, for example) should be questioned by their developers more. | |
Can someone explain to me why this thread's so active all of a sudden? It's a four-year-old article for heaven's sake. | |
There's a link to it on the front page, bottom right, under "stories you might like" today. That's the only reason my ass is here. | |
A story I might like huh? I do like this. Does anyone know if this boss was ever defeated? Also this story was posted before I came to the Escapist. | |
As someone who still plays the game, yes. He has been beaten alot. I've personally beaten him. It still takes a group with a brain to pull it off, but he's nowhere near as impossible as he was back in the day. | |
>.> but really? an 18 hour boss fight? are they stupid? who thought this was a good idea, cause they need to be fired, since they clearly don't get that boss fights aren't about stacking retarded amounts of HP on a monster, they're supposed to be a test of team work and skill, in this regard they have failed totally as game designers | |
That depends which boss you're talking about. Pandemonium Warden, the subject matter for the 18 hour boss fight, didn't have a retarded amount of HP at the time. He had a retarded amount of forms he could switch to. That being: every raid boss of every endgame event present in the expansion. In 1 fight. That's what made it 18 hours. The boss in the picture is actually Absolute Virtue, who was yet another "impossible" boss. He never had retarded amounts of HP, he just had the ability to fully recover all damage done to him with one ability, and 1 shot every player within a 10 mile radius with instant cast Meteor. Good times. Both have been beaten since post-nerf, ironically Pandemonium Warden much sooner than Absolute Virtue (who was implemented much earlier.) Here's a few pages for those who care: | |
"Mom, I'm going to fight this boss" | |
Ah this brings back memories of when i was on it....i miss that game it was one of the only mmo i ever got into and the people on there were great. | |
I'll admit, i like the sound of how PW works as far as boss concepts go for a raid boss anyway. *tries imagine a version for Vin* the fact that they still managed to turn both into 18 hour affairs means some one fucked up, but it is an FF game they do like wasting peoples time with bosses that take all day to kill | |
Indeed, these 2 bosses were pretty much Yiazmat before it was cool. Although slight correction, AV never took 18 hours to kill. He just murdered you within a few minutes. PW on the other hand, once square enix did make him killable within a 2 hour window, people figured it out pretty quickly (turns out suicide blue mages was the key.) AV on the other hand was still a friggin monster. He still would be too... if it weren't for Summoners getting Alexander (95% damage reduction for both magic and physical damage, immunity to status ailments, AoE) Now he can be zerged down, provided the DPS classes are good at what they do. | |
i've had raids like that ...... good times ......
o.o now THAT'S a kick.ass. buff right there. how longs that last? i play DPS 90% of the time >.> (well i play bulldozers, DPS/tank hybrids) not a hard hard style to play but i find it the most satisfying. the real trick is the min/maxing stats x.x and i suck at that | |
90 seconds only. and it can only be used once every 2 hours. So yea, you either kill that bastard quick or it's over. | |
90 seconds is still a long time for a buff though, the 2 hour cool downs kind of a bitch though, but given how good it is, kinda amazed its a 90 second buff and not like 30 seconds | |
Someone needs to link this story on the WoW forums. Let those whiny, lazy, self-entitled elitists see what a real boss that needs "nerfing" looks like. See a boss that takes nearly a day to kill warrants a massive "nerf"! | |
Call me pathetic, but if I find a story interesting and haven't heard of it before, I don't give a damn if it happened over a century ago. | |
Didn't realize this thread was so old. At least until halfway through the first page a WoW player talked about Karazhan being relevant content. That being said, the longest I've ever spent on one single boss is about 30 minutes. 18 hours seems almost inhuman, my eyes get tired after a couple hours just playing WoW. | |
I'd remember doing things like this in WoW, our first attempt at a boss would take 4-5 hours to learn; maybe numerous wipes during the go; but even then, we would spend 6 hours MAX any night playing.. maybe 7 if the night was going good, we didn't want to stop. But even then, after a while, that 4 hour boss fight later turns around to being only a 2 hours, then 1 hour, then finally 30 minute to kill. Its not the boss takes "18" hours; just just they didn't have the know how of the boss fight the kill him better. | |
I remember playing FF XI. I had a great time, i wont lie. Riding around on my chocobo, Warrior/White Mage hybrid, swag on full blast 8) The community for the game was pretty good to. A little segregated between the Super Hardcore MLG worthy RAIDRAIDRAID mmo players, and the semi-casual group, but it was still pretty fun. Though i can say i never did get to go after a real boss >.>; I didnt even know there was an 18 hours+ boss. | |
You've got it half right. PW was the boss that took 18 hours, and fighting him was pretty straight forward. The only problem was the sheer amount of forms he had and his massive AoE that downed everyone in range. After 18 hours, they still lost. Then this article came out, and Square Enix immediately nerfed both PW and AV. The nerf basically scaled down their HP to where they're easily killable within 2 hours (it's actually mandatory. 1 second after the 2 hr mark and it despawns, all drops and pop items lost), but they raised their attack power as a result. In other words, there wasn't really a trick to killing PW in 2 hours that they just overlooked. It just couldn't be done pre-nerf. Now there were a few fights back in the day that met your criteria (like Kirin) where a little practice goes a long way. In fact I'd say almost all of the big fights were like that. A good group could kill a raid boss in under 20 minutes, where a bad group could take hours to do it. But not these 2. That's what made them special, it wasn't just lack of practice, they were just that bloody hard. | |
Kinda scary on multiple levels. I can't deny I've sat down for a my fair share of long sessions but eighteen hours is caaarazy. They must have been extremely determined to succeed... | |
Back in the day, some WoW bosses would take 20-30 minutes (occasionally a little more). Old Four Horseman, Old Onyxia (at release), C'thun, Old Nefarian, they were all bosses which took a fair amount of time. Longest enrage timers are generally 25 minutes (Illidan), but even they wouldn't normally take the full 25 to kill. These days, most bosses take under 5-10 minutes. It's quite possible to clear Dragon Soul in less than an evening. My pretty casual guild had 6/8 done in less than two hours, including a 10-15 minute break before we called it due to some IRL problems for some of the raiders. Chances are if we'd continued we'd have it done in less than three hours fairly easy, which is a good half hour before our 'normal' raid end time occurs. The two Deathwing encounters (Spine and Madness) can be an exception. Spine because it has no enrage timer and you can fight as long as your healers have mana and you can handle the Bloods. I don't normally keep track, but judging by the youtube video timers, it takes about 6-8 minutes to kill. Probably closer to 5-6 after the nerfs. Madness seems to take around 10-12 minutes. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less. The problem? It's a boring fight. You repeat the same thing four times (Mutated Corruption->Deal with Elementium Bolt->Bloods->(Blistering Tentacles)->Arm Tentacle before Cataclysm) and then do something different at the end. Pretty much the entire fight comes down to the fourth platform. Each platform takes 2-3 minutes. This means that you have 6-9 minutes of yawn, 2-3 minutes of 'difficulty' and then another few minutes of 'yawn' as you finish him off. I am fine with Kael'thas being 20 minutes long because pretty much each of his five phases feels notably different. Madness of Deathwing couldn't last 20+ minutes, people'd get sick of it.* I can't see a reason for any fight to last more than 20-30 minutes other than to fluff 'hardcore' gamer ego. *Another thing I think is relevant is that Kael'thas' phases get steadily more difficult by throwing new challenges at you. Madness of Deathwing's phases get steadily more difficult because you lose buffs as the fight goes on. That's less interesting. | |
An 18-hour boss fight is the definition of bad game design and untalented game designers, IMO. | |
Wow, dude! That is totally uncalled for. That's not even a good friendly jib. That's just plan crude and rude. | |
This sadly doesn't surprise me. Final Fantasy XI remains the most hateful and pointlessly difficult game I'd ever played. I mean yeah, I'm still depressed that not only did the idiot developers try to top their previous impossible boss by making one that's legitimately impossible, and even more so that there were people willing to go this far to find that out, but does it surprise me? No. The poor bastards are just suffering through the abused spouse syndrome. All they know is torment and misery, so they think it's a badge of honor to be the most tormented and miserable of all. | |
Sweet arthritic Jesus, I feel old. I remember this news article. Seriously, my brain is drowning in nostalgia and memories of 08. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Pandemonium_Warden Apparently they got him in the end. So there's something. | |
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Sadly concentration beyond 20 minutes is a feat most people can't provide and thus appealing to the majority is something games tend to live or die on these days.