Baby Tea:

Zrahni:
GIVE US FREAKING DEMO VERSIONS TO SEE THE FREAKING GAME YOU HYPED FOR 2 YEARS OR SO AND YOU WILL SEE PIRATING DECREASE.

Bullshit. Demos don't have anything to do with it. People pirate because either they think they are sending a message, because they don't want to pay money they don't have for a game they want, or because they don't want to pay money they DO have for a game they want.

And before people drop the 'I only download games and see if I will buy it, and then I delete it', that's also either complete bullshit or you are a rare minority.

Look, I think the President of EA (And EA in general) is a total tool (ESPECIALLY about the used games 'problem'...idiot) and is going about this piracy problem the completely wrong way. But look at it, if you dare, from the perspective of one of these companies (EA or otherwise):

They spend upwards of millions of dollars in time and money developing these games. Go figure they'd want to MAKE MONEY off these games. It's a freaking business, and that's the point of a business: To make money. But then, you got a bunch of people blatantly ripping your product off. Flat out stealing it. Yeah, that would get me annoyed and angry too.

Try and justify piracy all you want, because you're lying to yourself.
'It's a sub par product! I don't want to pay full price for that!' - Then wait for the inevitable price drop. Otherwise I guess you really DID want that game! Pay for the damn thing.

'I'm not going to support STOOPID EA because they suck!' - But yet you still want to play their games by downloading them? That's a ridiculous argument. You either boycott them or you buy them, otherwise you're just an EA closet case.

'I don't agree with their DRM/copy protection software!' - Well if people weren't pirating in the first place, they wouldn't be there. Besides that, since they ARE there, then don't get the bloody game. That's how they're releasing it, and if it pisses you off then don't get the game. There are plenty of other great games out there without the DRM and secuROM shit. Play those.

Sorry to rant, but I get sick of people with their heads up their ass spouting forum rhetoric on the virtues of piracy. It's bullshit.

Then what do you propose? If there is something wrong with the product that you can't financially support it in good conscience, do you just deprive yourself of what is otherwise a good game experience? I bought Mass Effect, and got burned by its draconian DRM measures. I actually feel like I did an immoral thing by buying it. Do you think that it would be better to just never play a good game such as this?

I am in that "rare minority" that you speak of. I have spent thousands on games that I've never even opened, and many of them I pirated before I actually purchased. It's all a matter of control as to why I pirate. Take the recent example of Too Human. If I believed all the hype on that game, I would have spent $60 on it, and I finished it in 6 1/2 hours. NOT a good purchase. Game companies are around because they want to make money, and that is first and foremost on their mind. They don't care if their game is crap, only that you buy it. They will even flat-out LIE to you in order to get you to give them YOUR money. That is FAR worse than being a pirate, because stealing from your customers is the fast way to go out of business.

Back on topic: I think one thing that is hurting the PC industry most right now is dev's inability to make flexible games that will play on more people's systems. UT3 was mentioned earlier. I personally have a great PC that can run that game with no problems at all. I have a lot of fun with it. However, no one seems to own it when I go online, because only a select handful of PC's are capable of even loading the game. I don't know why anyone would make a game that no one can play, but it sure is becoming the norm for PC games these days. That's one thing that Blizzard has got my respect on. They KNOW that people don't all own supercomputers, and so they make their games playable on the average PC, and not only the top-end ones.

O.K. here is some late breaking news. I pay $16.99 a month for Netflix. Between the amount of discs I go through in that time coupled with the amount of instant watch movies I view I am consuming far more then I pay for. Not to mention the fact that my friends frequently come over and watch movies with me. None of them use Netflix. You also have to factor in the movies that I buy and occasionally lend to them. Plus the movies they buy and occasionally lend to me. None of us have payed for every single movie we have ever seen.
This applies to games as well. I don't have 360 and I won't be getting one anytime soon. But I have gone over to my buddy's house and played his 360 frequently. I didn't pay for any of those games.
Complaining about people playing your games who haven't payed for them is turning your back on the consumers who have. These companies DO NOT have the right to make used games unaccessible. Don't like Gamestop? Cut them off at the knees. I haven't been in a Gamestop under any of its labels in 5 five years and I don't intend to ever go back. Between getting games no longer available to saving some money a few weeks after release used games are here to stay. This constant push by publishers to only focus on what's out now or coming out so they can justify their investment is something far too many people fall for.
The money-suits are in charge of the big labels now. Buy Indie. You'll feel better about your self.

Archon:

The studios seem to think that it is piracy. If it's not piracy, what do you guys think it is?

My money is on the quality/enjoyability of todays games being the reason sales are in the tank. I could go to any number of stores around where I live, and each would have a couple dozen or more games I don't own, but I'm not out there buying them because they either aren't my type of game (something they can't do much about) or don't seem very appealing (something they can do something about). There's nothing on the shelf that screams "Buy Me" the way games did back in the 80's and early 90's. Used to be I could walk through a Futureshop store with $100 in my hands, and spend four hours deciding because I couldn't choose between the myriad of great looking games... Today, with that same $100 in hand, I go through Futureshop, and within about 10 minutes I've determined there isn't a single game there worth buying.

This applies equally to the consoles. Back in the NES/SNES/Sega era, there were hundreds of games I wanted for my systems. By the time PS2 became affordable (roughly 2 years post-release), there were but a dozen games of interest. Still haven't bought a PS3, there isn't enough good games for it to justify the price.

I have heard that companies compare the units sold to the number of patches downloaded to get the "piracy ratio".

Archon:

[...]
The studios seem to think that it is piracy. If it's not piracy, what do you guys think it is?

Hope it is ok to quote in such a reduced way?

Guess that is the 100.000 [insert your currency here] question.
So what is it, if not piracy. Maybe the appearance of the two markets, Console market vs. PC market has to do with it.

An example:
A couple of weeks ago there was a really tiny tiny game expo in my city. So they had tons and tons of 360's, Wii's and PS3. They had 5 PC standing in the +16 area. For me the most remarkable was the following: an attendee said

I don't play on the PC, it's to twitchy and hectic. I like to sit down on my couch with my gamepad

.
So maybe the publishers think, that the console market simply has a broader playerbase and maybe they are not as spoiled or requesting high standards as "elitism PC people" and therefore are easier satisfied.

The other thing that strikes me is when I look at some of the more "famous" ports of console games to the PC. The majority of them where ported "without" love, Star Trek Legacrap is a shining example that springs directly into my mind. Bad controls, not configurable controls, bad netcode, shallow gameplay, below average gameengine and a "we don't care about you attitude". Personally, whenever I hear it is a console port, I let out a small sigh and go into cynic mode and I think I am not the only one that thinks like that and the publishers surely know that.

Regarding the reselling of used games
Somehow the "fuss" about it strikes me as weird. I mean, you can buy and resell your car, your furniture, your clothes, your bicycle,your house, you name it and none of these affected industries are complaining. (or at least I never heard of it) So why should this be different for games? Again, I'm not the only one to think like that. People are used to have certain rights with "their bought" products and now $someone (thy publisher) declare that people don't have certain rights anymore. My guess is that they think like that "they are taking away a part of my freedom" So they get pissed and rebellious and stubbornly protest that and somehow I can understand, I have similar feelings about PC and drm software.

I think we should go down to Epic and find out how many of them own used cars or furniture. Should they not have gotten them because they didn't give the money to the people who made the product?

I have some observations I would like to share. I know they sound wacky, but bear with me.
GOOD GAMES SELL WELL.
GOOD MUSIC SELLS WELL.
I dunno about you guys, but 'pirating' music actually opens my eyes to new and better music, and if I like it enough I will go out and buy it. It's pretty much the same with games.

the second hand argument is bad. if anything, if second sales are really that bad for their company, it shows that the game has little replayability or people aren't happy with it in the first place. is that a fault of the customer? no. it's the fault of the people who worked on it, who hyped it etc. the golden rule of "the customer is always right" also applies here, however much you may dislike it.

the game industry is unfortunately full of people who can talk the talk but can't get a grip around their own package and figure things out by themselves. these are the same people that want to put out excuses and rants about why their game isn't selling or why they made their choice of platform for what it was. i consider these people next to useless, and if i had a company with people like that, i'm pretty sure it wouldn't take long for them to get fired. or better yet, i would make sure they wouldn't have been hired in the first place.

there are a few exceptions to this; valve is a good example. their prediction with what the steam system would solve and become a few years in advance became what really drove them above other companies (without taking the quality of games into account). while steam most likely is not piracy free, i'd wager it is much harder to pirate from steam than to pirate any other PC game.

So let me get this straight Mr. Capps. Your punishing EVERYONE with a PC for the actions of a few people? It makes just as much sense as LucasArt's pathetic excuse for why the force unleashed wouldn't be on the PC, especially with what they did on the WII. When are theses people going to stop blaming piracy and actually do something about it?

The two major game sellers in the UK are GAME and Gamestation of which;

-GAME refuses to sell or buy back any PC game. No 2nd hand PC games there.
-Game Station WILL buy back old game and sell 2nd... But the exchange rate for serial coded games is just 0.01p normally. Ouch!

Edit:

The likely reason for not selling;

-The price a company has to pay for testing a PC game and patching it.

To produce a good quality PC game, there will always be a higher production cost.

avykins:
As NZ has a "no return" policy on digital media each game would have been $$100 wasted.

On this subject, it might be worth checking the law to see whether such policies are actually legal. They exist to some extent in the UK but (IANAL) probably wouldn't survive a challenge under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 if a customer decided to make an issue of it, which is likely only a matter of time - if NZ has a similar law (which I'm led to believe it does, but know little of the specifics) the policy might be equally untenable there.

WOW Andraste I am appalled by your lack of foresight. I don't recall hearing anywhere that game design was the road to easy street. If a customer buys a game used and is treated poorly or has a poor experience with the product itself they aren't going to be a customer in the future. This applies to to just about everything though. Prime example is this Samsung DVD burner I just bought last week, not used but the same concept. It won't recognize any discs except my factory pressed game discs. It won't read my personal burned data discs, my movies or my blank discs. Customer service is a joke is this case so, guess which brand of anything I won't ever be buying again.
As I stated in my last post I believe Gamestop to be the absolute lowest when I comes to shopping for games. Pubs and Devs hate them with good reason but punishing the users for something done by a corporation is asinine. Maybe they should start more exclusives with retailers that treat them better like the Fallout 3: Amazon.com Exclusive Survival Edition. Better yet stop giving Gamestop exclusives period.

IANAL? Sounds to me like you're just pulling names out of your ass...

Cheap jokes aside, I do find it strange that people will happily buy a 2nd hand game in the UK for £45 when the new ones are £50, I'll personally pay that £5 to know I'm getting a copy in mint condition without peanut butter and scratches all over the disc and rude words scribbled in the manual. I exaggerate, sure, but you can see my point.

I have no problem with the second hand market, but when they're offering like £10-15 for a new game and putting a sticker on and it's 45, I just think there's room to move, and I'd buy new.

As for other markets not doing the same stuff, I believe there's similar things in the small print of DVDs, CDs, etc, its just that they're not threatening to push em into reality like the games companies seem to be doing.

I for one could live without console ports, I'll take the PC games, and I'll play the console games at a friend's house. EA don't lose any money because we're all pirating shoddy ports, we're not all bitching at EA for making shoddy ports, and the PC exclusives should sell fairly well, because they won't be shoddy ports.

Hell, I've done Car boot sales in my time, getting rid of old videos, cds, etc, and I've had people STEAL from my table... I'm selling old videos for like 50 pence, and people still feel the need to steal them, you'll never stamp out theft or piracy, but I didnt just shut up and go home and never come back, I took the things I lost as 'acceptable losses' as I live in a world with chavs, and got back there next week, making some money and losing a little of it.

I guess the only response is that I completely disagree. The idea that only new products should sell and used products should never be available sounds to me like companies trying to change the market to suit themselves rather than changing with the market. This speaks of someone who doesn't want to put in the effort of selling their products. Your statements in your previous posts speaks to your agreement of that idea.
To the second point, people are fickle. Especially when it comes to entertainment. Someone who picks up an older product well after its release and enjoys both the product and the experience are more likely to buy the next product. That could be a sequel or just the new project from the same creators. I can't quote research based on trends, but I can talk about my own experiences. I didn't have a lot of disposable income in the '90s. If I hadn't been able to pick up Fallout 1,2, and Tactics second-hand, when I could afford them I would never have pre-ordered the expensive Amazon exclusive of Fallout 3. Another example is again from the film industry. We never had a UPN affiliate in this area. Because of this I was not able to see Buffy the Vampire Slayer when it aired. I only saw it much later in syndication. Because I liked what I saw and because 20th Century Fox actively engaged the user by asking upfront what sort of DVD release were most desirable I pre-ordered every season on disc. Granted this isn't a perfect analogy because the studio still gets money from the syndication deals, but the idea is that the show was out there for more people than the initial audience. That is true foresight. Building a customer base, whether it comes from people who were on board from the beginning or ones who came on later. Attempting to make people forget what has come before and only focus on what is happening right now is short-sighted and will never payoff. The fact that EA, ActiBlizzsion, and now apparently Epic are following this route does not bode well for their futures.

What a crybaby, I swear. Has management in game development been taken over by a kindergarten of particularly whiny brats? Every day, it's another dev whining about "piracy" and "used games". What the hell makes this guy think his product is any different than every other product out there? Yeh, bytes don't wear out, but the CD's and DVD's sure as hell do, just like any physical product out there. You buy a used game, the disc is probably a bit scratched, maybe smudged... it's sure not pristine like a brand new one. And don't get me started on the piracy drum. What he's really saying is "Gears of War 2 won't come to PC because we make a lot more money on the consoles, and we really can't be bothered to support the gaming medium that made us big."

about all i have to say about this is 'Jesus tap dancing Christ'... so the grounding to his statement is he wants more of our money
and is trying to take lengths to cut out other company's ways of making money..

Point the first. The used market shows that there are people willing to buy their games at a certain retail price point. If he really, really wants to convert those sales to first hand sales, then he should have no qualms at all about lowering the retail price point to match the used price point, hmm? In fact, I think he's going to be quite surprised to learn how few people consider his game to be worth $60 in perpetuity.

Point the second. No used PC games available from Gamestop.

Point the third. I would be more impressed with his claims of theft and loss from piracy, if he actually tried to claim his Imaginary Pirate Revenue as a business loss on his taxes, or filed a theft claim with his insurance company.

"Epic President Takes A Dump On His Consumers Faces" would be a more fitting title.

Unless someone hasn't said this before: Maybe PC's are better off without GoW2?

Guys wait by the end of this month and we will see how pc gaming is doing. When valve will release left 4 dead we will see how pc gaming alive and kicking. I bet that pc version will sell better then xbox 360 and even it is not a sequel.

The major point here is greed. No matter how little the losses from piracy, they're just too greedy to let it go. Most of the people who pirate either: a). don't have the money b). the game is banned in their country c). nobody sells original games in the city where they live and d).NO CASH! (games are just too expensive outside the U.S.)

I buy games but they take away almost a month of our food supply or a quarter of school fees.

Let me rephrase the article :

Capps : 'BAAAAAAWWWWWWWW ! Why aren't PC gamer retarded tools with too much money on their hands !? Don't mention that I forget used games are also a big market on consoles, but basically I'd like to have money for breakfast, and I can't understand games are way too fucking expensive and require a PC from tomorrow to run, and that our piracy paranoia encourages even more piracy.
In other words, I am a huge moron and I suck giant donkey choad.
BAAAAAWWWWWWWW !'

The music industry IS trying to kill re-selling music. It's one of those subjects they quietly raise every time they go lobbying to restrict online usage. (They also wanted iTunes store to lock up your music so that if you wanted to play a song on your compy and your iPod, you'd have to buy it twice. That died pretty fast.)

Anyway, DVD distrubutors also would like to end re-sells. They wanted to prevent rental stores from selling their pre-viewed copies, expecting that the chain stores would be easier to hold back but again, the plans withered away pretty quick when the stores threatened to bite back by not carrying some films.

None of these distributors are happy with the practice but it became such a market presence that it would ruin them in the consumer's eye to make it a front page issue. They have slowly learned that with digital distribution, there is no re-sell opportunity and games will follow suit in time.

When you buy IP, you're paying for a lifetime lease as far as publishers and distributors are concerned. There is a copyright on the design of a car, but not on the physical object. A game or CD is only a medium and while you can sell back the disc, they don't want you to be able to sell back the data on it.

But game reviewers lie too, remember the Gerstmann case ?

Although Gertsmann was mainly a whiny bitch, he shouldn't have been sacked for the sake of Eidos's fat stacks of promotion cash, he was still right that Kane & Lynch is an average game...

Game reviews, user reviews and metacritic are in most cases not a good measure of quality anymore... sadly.

Baby Tea:

Signa:

Baby Tea:

Try and justify piracy all you want, because you're lying to yourself.

'It's a sub par product! I don't want to pay full price for that!' - Then wait for the inevitable price drop. Otherwise I guess you really DID want that game! Pay for the damn thing.

'I don't agree with their DRM/copy protection software!' - Well if people weren't pirating in the first place, they wouldn't be there. Besides that, since they ARE there, then don't get the bloody game. That's how they're releasing it, and if it pisses you off then don't get the game. There are plenty of other great games out there without the DRM and secuROM shit. Play those.

Then what do you propose? If there is something wrong with the product that you can't financially support it in good conscience, do you just deprive yourself of what is otherwise a good game experience? I bought Mass Effect, and got burned by its draconian DRM measures. I actually feel like I did an immoral thing by buying it. Do you think that it would be better to just never play a good game such as this?

I am in that "rare minority" that you speak of. I have spent thousands on games that I've never even opened, and many of them I pirated before I actually purchased. It's all a matter of control as to why I pirate. Take the recent example of Too Human. If I believed all the hype on that game, I would have spent $60 on it, and I finished it in 6 1/2 hours. NOT a good purchase. Game companies are around because they want to make money, and that is first and foremost on their mind. They don't care if their game is crap, only that you buy it. They will even flat-out LIE to you in order to get you to give them YOUR money. That is FAR worse than being a pirate, because stealing from your customers is the fast way to go out of business.

For the Mass Effect issue: That sucks, but I still say piracy isn't justified. If you don't like the way they are distributing it, no one is forcing you to get the game. That's like me saying 'Well I really want God of War, but I don't have a PS2...so I'm going to go get an emulator and the ISOs for the game and play that way.' It's not 'convenient' or it's 'annoying' or what YOU might call 'immoral' so go ahead and steal it? That's bullshit.

And for the Too Human issue: That's what reviews are for! And besides, I got two words: Buyer beware. You say that game developers flat out lie when it comes to their games. Yeah, well, welcome to the entire world of advertising. I see movie trailers for shitty movies that say they are a 'thrill ride' or a 'enormous comedy' and they aren't. They are crappy movies. Same goes with games. Don't like it? Don't take their word for it. That's what reviews are for. And if you don't agree with reviewers, then find a friend who has it, or something. Just because you don't enjoy the experience and think you should pay full price, doesn't give you the 'right' to pirate the game. That's also bullshit.

So you are 1000% ok with people who are richer than you are trying to take your money? How is THAT not bullshit in itself? You are right that no one is forcing anyone to play a game, but what about peer pressure? All the time, my friends and co-workers are talking about the newest game that came out, and their experiences and adventures in the game. Fallout 3 is a recent example. Now, I have neither played, purchased, or even pirated fallout 3 because I'm not too concerned with it right now. However, if they were all discussing Mass Effect, I'd be interested in joining their conversation. If I followed your suggestion that I don't have to play games, I would not only be depriving myself of playing a good game, but also social interaction. All for what? giving an invisible middle finger to EA. Good idea.

Face it, I would be stupid to NOT pirate a game like that. EA will be a lot more likely to see pirated figures than figures of who didn't buy a game. Also, I would get to play a masterpiece of a game, and I also would get to join in on any inside jokes, memes, and stories of adventures my friends had.

Like I said before, it's about control. These companies think they are in control, but they all have forgotten that consumers like you and me are the ones that are really in control. They should feel lucky to have a customer like me. I'm buying their shit even though I can (and some times did) get it for free. When they do a good job making something, they get rewarded, when they churn out a pile of crap in 15 mins, they aren't going to see any praise from me.

Disclaimer: Much of my anger is more of directed at the music and movie industries. EA's recent actions has lumped their part of the gaming industry into the same category for me. I think that, generally speaking, the game industry is not scum. That is why I still buy their games. Topics like this one always make me furious though, because I won't be playing a PC game because some one is crying about what is IMO a moot point. Pirates are never customers, and the real customers, like me, are getting shafted because some one is crying over spilled water...and greed

Baby Tea:

Signa:

Baby Tea:
A bunch of text

So you are 1000% ok with people who are richer than you are trying to take your money? How is THAT not bullshit in itself? You are right that no one is forcing anyone to play a game, but what about peer pressure? All the time, my friends and co-workers are talking about the newest game that came out, and their experiences and adventures in the game. Fallout 3 is a recent example. Now, I have neither played, purchased, or even pirated fallout 3 because I'm not too concerned with it right now. However, if they were all discussing Mass Effect, I'd be interested in joining their conversation. If I followed your suggestion that I don't have to play games, I would not only be depriving myself of playing a good game, but also social interaction. All for what? giving an invisible middle finger to EA. Good idea.

Face it, I would be stupid to NOT pirate a game like that. EA will be a lot more likely to see pirated figures than figures of who didn't buy a game. Also, I would get to play a masterpiece of a game, and I also would get to join in on any inside jokes, memes, and stories of adventures my friends had.

PEER PRESSURE?? That is your argument? That's ridiculous! Are you 13? I've got friends and co-workers who have better apartments, cars, computers, TVs, stereos, movies, and all sorts of crap that I wouldn't mind having. That isn't an excuse in any way or form for me to steal any of those things. I'm sure the judge would be very sympathetic: 'What? Ohhh, all your friends had it so you wanted it too! Sure, no problem! Case Dismissed!' That is completely laughable.

And yeah, I'm ok with rich people TRYING to get my money from me. It's called a business. The beauty about this crazy idea is that I have the CHOICE on whether or not to buy their product (Which you yourself admitted). They aren't sucking the money out of my account.

And yeah you're right. My invisible middle finger, of not buying the product, is WAY more dumb then a bunch of people flat out stealing the product, forcing the hand of companies like this to put the copy protection on the game which is the reason you steal it now! It's this endless loop that sure as shit won't end with the developers and publishers taking off copy protection. Yeah, that's a GREAT protest. I'm sure EA will suddenly say 'Wow, because of our copy protection methods, people are stealing our games! I know! Let's remove copy protection as a sign of good faith! I'm SURE piracy will go down!'

Yeah, right. Great protest. If people didn't steal this stuff to begin with, we'd all be happy and fine. So far, your arguments are:

1) If the product is too shitty to pay full price for, it's ok to steal it rather then wait for the INEVITABLE price drop. - Yeah, wait for the price to come down. If it's so sub par, then you aren't missing out on much are you?

2) I don't like the copy protection! It's a protest to steal it! - Yeah, then the companies put on MORE copy protection for you to protest. See a pattern? Try not buying it instead.

3) But then I miss out on all the inside jokes, memes, and stuff with my friends! Peer pressure man! - This is the dumbest argument for piracy I've ever seen. Your friends have it and you don't? Inside jokes? Judging from the fact that you mentioned co-workers, I assume you aren't 8 years old. So why is this such an issue? Oh, all your friends are saying how awesome the game is? THEN BUY IT! Seriously, that's ridiculous.

OK OK OK, so the peer pressure comment was a little reaching. It doesn't change much though. Regardless of the chicken-and-egg argument about DRM and why its there is irrelevant, it still doesn't curb piracy. In fact, I'm pretty sure it encourages it.

It seems this argument is going absolutely nowhere, you are too close minded sir, and yet you are still throwing the same half-assed argument around just as I am. Face it, I'm a good person. I don't steal. It doesn't matter what YOU call it, but buying things at a reduced cost only means I'm paying what I feel the devs have earned. I'll buy things at full price if I think it's worth it. That is all the matters, no matter how I'm getting the data on my PC in the first place.

Maybe if you weren't calling me full of shit, we could talk on a more civil level, but from your first post is always been "OMG TH33VEZ!!" Until you have fully taken control of your gaming budget as I have, and seen why it is awesome (or not as awesome as I say it is) then maybe you can have your opinion. Otherwise, you just sound like the goody-goody brainwashed consumer buying every word some one with more money says to you.

TL;DR -you know the only Truth, we are all sinners and should drag out, hogtie and lynch pirates, got it.

Got something clever to say now, Mr. Serious Business ?

It's seriously as shallow and empty as the debate over walkmen, VRCs and anything able to copy.
You wanted no copy ? then why make it available to the buying public ?
Why not put people who LEND stuff to friends and neighbours in jail ?

Endless egg-and-chicken debate, endless absence of a constitutive answer...

Only solution I see is charge a bit more for internet connections and re-distribute it to copyright owners.
Either that, or new copyright models...

Which is a contrast to many other I talk to, who say the crazy argument of 'Well, they aren't losing a customer since I wouldn't have bought the game anyways!' Yeah, well then I'm going to go steal food from a grocery store that I never shop at. The obvious difference is if the food is gone then they can't sell it, thus losing money. But, if you're playing the game and enjoying it, then OBVIOUSLY you would have bought it (Thus them losing money when it's pirated).

I was just going to drop it, because I'm sick of arguing about this. But I just wanted to point out that this statement right here it why I was arguing in the first place. But, like I said, I'm done.