Assassin's Creed 2 Set During French Revolution?

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Rifled pistols and rapiers. What can a man wish otherwise? This idea also suits quite well to the image we received from the protagonist. I think I like it!

British T.V. adverts have Da-Vinci-style drawings and enzio (sic?) morphing out of the Vitruvian man... pretty solid I'd say.

ManiacRaccoon:

rossatdi:

Okay, okay. You take the manly sword and I'll take the poofy pistol. We'll see who wins. IN fact, you take 20 samurai and I'll take 20 riflemen. We'll line up and have a fight.

One guy will miss, and while the gunman reload, the samurai will tear them to ribbons. That's why ninjas used them as sniping weapons (that and the fact that if you hit the guy, you didn't have the 20 armed guards getting all mad at you, because they don't know where you are).

And yes, it's taking place during the Italian Renaissance.

Sorry, what?

Wiki on Muskets:
This process was drilled into troops until they could do it by instinct and feel. The main advantage of the British Redcoat was that he trained at this procedure almost every day using live ammunition. A skilled unit of musketeers was able to fire three rounds per minute. This was the limit whilst loading to order as above, however an experienced individual could manage four rounds a minute if firing at will, such as in a skirmish situation.

The ninjas used them as sniper weapons? To use a popular internet expression; LOL, whut?

And an renaissance era Italian infantry soldier would be well trained with a sword as well as a gun, as well as probably having steel armour.

Arsen:
Meh, I wish videogames would stick to certain formulas and time periods, I for one am not thrilled about this regardless of how well it can be pulled off. It's a waste of a setting and a time period to put it in a game such as Assassin's Creed. I for one, love stories set in certain places and times I love, such as the French Revolution, however I feel at length it'll be a trivialization of the time period.

I honestly wish a setting such as this wouldbe purely reserved for a different media. Books, movies, music, etc...

Call it this outlandish and illogical, but I can't stand it when something good has the possibility of being thrust towards an audience who doesn't appreciate the time period at hand. To them the game comes first, not the beauty and astounding detail of the culture itself.

Why should incredible cultural periods be withheld from games, just because a lot of people only play games for entertainment's sake? There are cultural and intelligent people who play games too, and would enjoy such a scenery immensely. And preventing high culture from being seen in games just reinforces the notion that games are nothing more than childish/violent/counterproductive entertainment for the masses of the unintelligent.

Developing games with a setting such as during the French Revolution might expose more players to the beauty of that period and hence broaden the interest towards it.

Wiki on Muskets:
A skilled unit of musketeers was able to fire three rounds per minute. This was the limit whilst loading to order as above, however an experienced individual could manage four rounds a minute if firing at will, such as in a skirmish situation.

So you are expecting the surviving swords men to sit there for the intervening seconds? And you never said how far apart they were standing, if they were standing 6 meters apart I could see them covering that ground and slicing someone in half before someone reloaded, assuming from your quote that it takes 20 seconds to reload. I might also point out that your source is a Wiki that you didn't link so we can't check it's sources.

rossatdi:

The ninjas used them as sniper weapons? To use a popular internet expression; LOL, whut?

To use another internet expression, "ya rly," but only during the final years of feudal Japan.

ManiacRaccoon:

Wiki on Muskets:
A skilled unit of musketeers was able to fire three rounds per minute. This was the limit whilst loading to order as above, however an experienced individual could manage four rounds a minute if firing at will, such as in a skirmish situation.

So you are expecting the surviving swords men to sit there for the intervening seconds? And you never said how far apart they were standing, if they were standing 6 meters apart I could see them covering that ground and slicing someone in half before someone reloaded, assuming from your quote that it takes 20 seconds to reload. I might also point out that your source is a Wiki that you didn't link so we can't check it's sources.

Type Muskets into wiki. Why would they only start 6 metres apart? For all the decades of training a samurai's life can be ended with one shot from 50 metres away by a 15 year old soldier who's spent two weeks being drilled on musket loading.

Also why does every assume that samurai are literally untouchable in hand-to-hand? Japanese steel was low quality in comparison with equivalent European steel simply because the mineral deposits were of lower quality. A katana cannot cut through or stab through a steel chest plate or helmet.

Especially during the Renaissance period any half decent soldiers would be well trained in hand to hand fighting as firearms had not yet reached the domination they would obtain after rifling was developed.

rossatdi:

The ninjas used them as sniper weapons? To use a popular internet expression; LOL, whut?

To use another internet expression, "ya rly," but only during the final years of feudal Japan.

Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit unless you can present evidence of sniper ninjas.

Hmm, the inclusion of Machiavelli is grinding on me a little bit. The date the game is set in will be 1476, Machiavelli was born in 1469. I'd hate it for him to be included when he's only 7.

Ace of Spades:
If I get to run up and assassinate Robespierre in High Profile, I will be very very happy.

Seconded. That guy was a douche.

yo dawg make us work for Napoleon cuz hes a pimp yo

I imagine it will be in Italy (Venice or Florence, most likely), but the time period seems to be around the same time as the French Revolution.

Southy:
Hmm, the inclusion of Machiavelli is grinding on me a little bit. The date the game is set in will be 1476, Machiavelli was born in 1469. I'd hate it for him to be included when he's only 7.

The dates are just a guideline and we don't have real evidence for when a lot of influential people were born. I don't see the problem in taking a few years as artistic licence in this case. After all, it is a work of fiction. The flying machine is also supposed to be in it, and history is fairly sure it was never built.

Oh and I really hope you get to scale the tower of Piza and jump off it. Since it was built round then.

galletea:

The dates are just a guideline and we don't have real evidence for when a lot of influential people were born. I don't see the problem in taking a few years as artistic licence in this case. After all, it is a work of fiction. The flying machine is also supposed to be in it, and history is fairly sure it was never built.

Oh and I really hope you get to scale the tower of Piza and jump off it. Since it was built round then.

I'd say it's a work of faction, seeing as the premise of the games is to use vague historic dates and deaths and create a story behind it. I'd rather have it factually correct to what information we have, rather than artistic license, which to me implies laziness.

Isn't it already said to be in venice?

rossatdi:

Type Muskets into wiki. Why would they only start 6 metres apart? For all the decades of training a samurai's life can be ended with one shot from 50 metres away by a 15 year old soldier who's spent two weeks being drilled on musket loading.

Also why does every assume that samurai are literally untouchable in hand-to-hand? Japanese steel was low quality in comparison with equivalent European steel simply because the mineral deposits were of lower quality. A katana cannot cut through or stab through a steel chest plate or helmet.

Especially during the Renaissance period any half decent soldiers would be well trained in hand to hand fighting as firearms had not yet reached the domination they would obtain after rifling was developed.

Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit unless you can present evidence of sniper ninjas.

I didn't say they were untouchable, but if the gunman are preoccupied with reloading the samurai aren't going to have that hard a time chopping them up.

As for the distance, I dunno you didn't establish the situation in which this was supposedly taking place, so I was imagining a firing squad, especially since when I think of muskets I think of the ones that used musket-balls instead of rifled bullets, which were notoriously inaccurate at great distances. The only reason some of them hit something across a battlefield was because the general practice when muskets were used was to line up in rows and shoot, if you shot in the general direction of a row of 100 soldiers odds were you'd hit something.

Metal chest plate? If you are depending on the fact that you have guns and they only have swords why on earth are you walking around in metal armor? Anyways, the katana is folded steel, it's gone through a process to make it stronger than just making a blade by molding one piece of steel, and even the Europeans were smart enough to purify the steel. If used properly, they use the wielder's energy more efficiently, because they are light, instead of using a heavy sword to drive the cut it is the wielder's own leverage on the sword that makes the cut. Plate armor usually isn't worn to cover the entire body and if it is, then it's going to slow the gunman down and limit their motion, then it's only a matter of the samurai finding a joint to stick the sword into, he could just disable them by cutting at the elbow and move on to the next gunman, and come back and kill them after they are all disabled.

Why'd you go back to the Renaissance again? We were talking about a bunch of guys with muskets against samurai, you never said where they were from so I obviously didn't take that into consideration, and you didn't say they had anything other than a gun.

As for the ninjas using rifles, like I said, it was late in the time of feudal japan, and it was in "The Mystic Arts of the Ninja" (# ISBN-10: 0809253437 # ISBN-13: 978-0809253432, I own the book and found it again on amazon, since my copy is buried in my room somewhere). I didn't believe it either when I first read it, but then, ninjas were supposed to use whatever tools they could to accomplish their objectives, so it makes sense that they would use guns when they became available.

Now I actually have finals, so don't expect me to reply if you post a response. It seems like you are just adding things on after the fact to so you are right. Either mention this stuff to begin with or don't get upset when people don't make the same assumptions you do. I'm not saying the samurai were invincible, I'm just saying they had a much better chance than you give them credit for.

Captains still had swords in most of Europe...UNTIL AROUND THE FIRST WORLD WAR. Also, we're debating whether it will be good set in the 1700's or not, the only change is likely to be a pistol instead of throwing knives.

ALSO, Muskets and the like were very deadly, and accurate, up to a certain point. They could punch a hole through half-inch steel plating more effectively than a 9mm modern pistol, they just had a quick drop off point in accuracy when it came to range, and weren't incredibly fast when you factor in reloading. Soldiers at the time would be used to fighting both close, and long range, as (if I am right) they would fire muskets, until CHARGING at the enemy, swords drawn.

Someone brought up the point that Swordsmen vs Riflemen = Riflemen dead. This depends entirely on the situation doesn't it? If these are 1700's era riflemen, they WONT freak out close quarters, they'll reach for their sword. If they're modern day riflemen, they'll bayonet/have already shot them with their modern weapons and or pull out a knife as last resort. There is a reason rifles rendered swords obsolete, and that is range, not killing power. A stab wound will often cause more damage than a bullet (depending on caliber) but you cant stab someone from 100m can you?

Real ninja = Mostly disorganized peasant army, within a nation, not fighting for one, mystic ninja idealogy.

Katana = Folded steel sword. This just means it pwns other, weaker and less technologically advanced swords and armour, such as BAMBOO ARMOUR. I'm not sure if it could cut through european steel armour at the time, but that's besides the point, this isnt a ninjas vs pirates thread (but practically is due to this stupid rifles vs samurai argument going on).

Samurai= Trained warrior from feudal Japan, continuing up to around 1700-1800s i think. They weren't magic, and were rendered obsolete by the same force that allowed them to be awesome for so long, technology:

Unorganised army < Tactically efficient army
No armour < Intimidating bamboo and leather armour
Pitchforks, Sickles and simple swords > Lances/Archers/ More advanced and stronger weapons such as the katana.

Can you see where this is going?
Close range strength and stamina based weapons > Point and shoot bullet-spitters.

ANYWAY. I think it'll be a nice change of scenery if it's set in Europe, lets just hope they listened to us screaming about the flaws, such as the repetative gameplay, annoying mob fights where you only face one person out of 20 until its done, and assassinations that you can't really plan for effectively, aside from relying on the tactic of "murder every guard within five miles, get seen, give chase, kill, return to daily running around for clues and jumping off buildings".

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