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Contributor  Posts: 408 Joined: 19 Nov 2007     | |
On the Record  Posts: 5958 Joined: 7 Feb 2008     | Wow... I am proud to own almost every game on this list. This list is some of the most hateful and rediculous drivel that I have ever seen. Christians take note... this is why I dislike you as a group, because you allow people like this to have such a loud voice while the rest (and saner) of you remain quiet leaving mostly us atheists to combat fundamentalism. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1566 Joined: 5 Dec 2007    |
So not wanting to expose your children to something you think is wrong is something horrible now? While I agree that Christians who harras homosexuals are really acting quite silly they don't really have to embrace the ideals of it. If some people want to be conservative in their gift buying; let them and don't complain. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 23 Jul 2008     |
I wasn't aware this guy was the voice of every Christian in America. I also wasn't aware it was my duty to keep this group quiet so they didn't offend you. My bad. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 862 Joined: 29 Apr 2008   | Well I thinks its rather overzealous to incorparate this into an investment group. I However do not belive the "Red Flagging" of certain games to be bad. I honestly can say this process would be very helpful to the 90% of parents who are nieve or mislead by the rating systems and values represented in games. I actually think this is a positive for the gaming community, and will help dispell the rumors that surround many games. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2598 Joined: 27 Aug 2008    | So I guess Mario is okay because the main character's squeeze is a cock teasing bitch? I wonder if these Rtards will release a list of books with naughty things in that you shouldn't buy either. Urge to kill rising. *Gasps* Home time, Fallout 3 at home, going to nuke me a town and find me a hooker! Urge to kill falling. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2768 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 |
If it had been phrased that way, I'd agree with you... but this isn't a list of games the socially-conservative wouldn't enjoy, it's a list of games that undermine the roots of civilisation and threaten righteous families with DOOOOOOOOM. Plus it lists a lot of really feeble connections with "teh ghey" as reasons to shun (SHUN the unbelievers) titles with really good entertainment value. Besides, most of what they object to is already labelled as unsuitable for children by the ESRB by the big honkin' "M" on the box art. This list is largely superfluous in that regard. -- Steve |
On the Record  Posts: 5484 Joined: 13 Aug 2008   | Well, I'm not really surprised anymore. People will always attack video games, just like they attack movies, books, music, TV, and so on. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1780 Joined: 29 Dec 2007     | I can't access the free PDF. I need a username and password apparently. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2581 Joined: 27 Sep 2008   | I like their reasoning for Army of Two. Mahahaha. |
Paperboy  Posts: 22 Joined: 15 Nov 2008   | I was going to make a comment about how these hatefully rich Christian people feel the need to push their beliefs on us but then I remembered that all the Christians I have met where nice people who probably find this company as annoying as I do. P.S. I agree with hippo24's notion that this process is a good idea and will help dispell rumors around certain games as a helpful tool for parents. |
On the Record  Posts: 5010 Joined: 28 Feb 2008  | OK.... I mean, seriously. What about, "Thou shalt not kill?" I just want to know what Jesus would think. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3552 Joined: 8 Dec 2007  | Actually, I would argue that under exposure to "adult" themes (such as blood and questions of sexuallity presented by characters) results in children growing up stupid. Seriously. |
On the Record Posts: 5958 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 |
Not specifically this guy, but Moderate Christianity has done very little to silence the fundamental arm of the religion. I'm not going to make guesses as to why. I go out of my way to criticise rationalists who see no purpose for faith and religion, I want to prove rationalism can be the better of the two for all the right reasons, not the wrong ones. But then again, it can't be entirely the fault of the moderate/sane christians... It is always the assholes who scream the loudest... on both sides. But phrases like "moral decay" and "Morally Bankrupt" always set me off. |
Red Guard  Posts: 3485 Joined: 18 Sep 2008   |
Yeah, no joke! This guy certainly doesn't speak for all Christians. I being a Christian, laughed at this guide. I don't think young kids should be playing GTA 4 (And mine won't), but that's because I'll educate myself as a parent. Once they are old enough, then they can play what games they want. And besides, this is a GUIDE. They aren't lobbying against you, they aren't pulling censorship of Australian purportions (sorry, Aussies), so why even say anything like that? He isn't holding your hand back from the cookie jar, and you're free to ignore him. If you 'hate' Christianity based on this, you're more ignorant then this fundamentalist. EDIT: I just read your reply to Flipscore. Sorry, I got a bit heated up. Just like you get upset about the fundamentalist groups of religion, I get upset with ignorant atheists and anti-theists who blame ALL Christians for the works of the moronic few. My bad. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 101 Joined: 8 Jan 2008   | Weeeeell, the anti-gay stuff comes in Leviticus, where we are also told that eating pork and not stoning a disobedient child to death will also cause us to be smitten (IE. sickened. Realistic interpretations could consider Leviticus a hygiene manual, listing possible disease vectors.) So the next time a fundie sits down to his bacon and eggs, remind him he might just as well be sucking off his son under the breakfast table. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1172 Joined: 13 Nov 2007   | I'll never understand why the Moral Guardians are always so much more concerned about sex than they are about violence. Or why homosexuality is considered a horrid thing at all. Or why they feel the need to publish this list together when almost all of these games have an M rating anyway. On the other hand, at least this particular group created a "Do Not BUY" list, as opposed to trying to strike down the rights of the game developers to MAKE these games. BTW, it said I need a username and password to get the PDF, anyone got one I can borrow? |
On the Record Posts: 5010 Joined: 28 Feb 2008 | After reading their reasonings, they get on to a lot of games for offering a choice. Anyway, I'm mad about the way they treated Bioshock. How is it, in any way, not religious, in a greater sense: |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 68 Joined: 29 Sep 2008   |
The issue here is not protecting children, embracing ideals, or even complaining. No, the true issue, in my humble opinion, is the misinformation, exageration, and propaganda lists like this spread through out the media. The potential impact of this list is only compounded by the fact that it singles out video games, the long-time whipping boy of the Religious Right and moral conservatives, exclusively. Now, I'm not denying the investment group's right to express their opinions, but keep in mind that the list's authors are well respected in the conservative Christian community. What I am concerned about is the large number of ordinary Christians who will read this list and, being by-and-large ignorant of video games and their content, interpret it as a statement of fact because of its source. While the impact of this list on holiday game sales will likely be negligible, or non-existant, it is an unpleasant reminder of the kind of hyperbole the conservative religious community uses to assault that which does not fit into the rigid constraints of their social ideals. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 5 Joined: 9 Apr 2008  | Well, I can't fault the group for the concept. The video gaming industry has come a long way since the days of 2d platformers and Doom. Nowadays we have protagonists biting the faces off minotaurs and the proliferation of industrial brown and gunmetal grey seems to have brought a lot of similarily realistic themes, where realistic means GRIMDARK BLOOD AND GUTS RARGH. "Morally bankrupt" is an annoying term, but a number of games genuinely are that for any meaningful definitions of the words, and they don't belong in childrens' hands. It's not like kids can feasibly run out of good games or other sorts of disposable entertainment, either. There's sense in singling out video games as well. For one thing, the group is under no obligation to pick out a representative sample of all media. For another, video games are the form of entertainment parents are most likely to be clueless about. A lot of "M" rated games do end up in childrens' hands because of that ignorance, which shouldn't happen, but does and is worth acting on. So much for the theory. Including mansex or the purposefully misinterpreted trace quantities of mansex on the list is, of course, still an act of utter faggotry, and I hope that members of sexual minorities will forgive my word choice for the sake of the scintillating irony. PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT: Christ is Lord. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 95 Joined: 9 Feb 2008 | Actually, after reading it, it is overly against a variety of things, but in many ways it is objective; they don't say how bad things are, merely what the game includes, in much more detail than any game ratings company could provide. They also have clearly played, or know someone who has played, the games in question, or at least some of them, from what I have read. So yes, I wouldn't use the guide, but it might be good for some clueless and concerned parents combined with their own judgement. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 158 Joined: 25 Apr 2008  | I didn't know you could actually smoke cigarettes in Fallout 3. Awesome, I'm gonna try that right now! Edit: Hey, Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway isn't even mentioned. Why not? Intense violence, blood and gore, strong language, use of tobacco, French publisher, I'm sure they'd love to hate that game too. MMOs are the only games that have a rating in the "game addiction" catagory. Also there are games with the same "score" as others that are not labled as immoral. Moreover, none of the Pokemon games are labeled as having "cartoon violence". So biased, so unfair. But then again, what the hell was the point of the list? If you really want to know what your kids are seeing, spend some fucking time with them. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 800 Joined: 25 Nov 2008   |
Yea I had the same problem. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1084 Joined: 3 Apr 2008   |
I'd imagine they wouldn't need one, films and literature have been around a long time in comparison to games, I'd assume that parents would already know what is inappropriate for those mediums; people tend to not research things enough because they've never had too; plus, a lot of parents are stupid. However, your point still is valid, games do have a bad public image.
I got that too, and it sounds really funny, I feel left out now. |
SUSPENDED  Posts: 6071 Joined: 25 Jan 2008  | Yet again self-entitled moralistic fucks forcing their beliefs down our throat. I thought you damn Yankees moved to the new world to escape this kind of shit. User was suspended for: MMOG Teaches Kids About Traffic Safety. (3 days) |
Copy Clerk Posts: 95 Joined: 9 Feb 2008 |
I partly agree with you, but just to play devil's advocate, the introduction to their guide says: 'We understand, with this being a controversial issue, that some may not agree with more complete information being made available to those without the time, temperament or even talent to completely research the content of the wide array of video games presently available. However, we hope all will respect the rights of everyone to raise their children in a way they feel best matches their values and beliefs.' |
Muckraker  Posts: 297 Joined: 6 May 2008  | http://www.fme.cc/VideoGame-Graphic.pdf For anyone having difficulty accessing the .pdf it would be a same for you to miss out ;) |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 678 Joined: 29 Apr 2008  | You can access the PDF by going through their main page: |
Muckraker  Posts: 295 Joined: 26 Aug 2008 |
This. And they say Fundies have no sense of humour!
How dare you force your individualistic beliefs down my throat! I demand to be told what to think, this goddamned instant! |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1536 Joined: 27 Apr 2008 | Grr I can't get to it, can someone post the link please. EDIT: Never mind look on the right of the page: |
BANNED  Posts: 12958 Joined: 30 Jan 2008 | You'd think they would then allow Metal Gear Solid 4 because you can then kill the creepy gay man - its pretty much their fantasy. User was banned for: Poll: What is your opinion on the Metal Gear Solid storylines?. (Permanent) |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 379 Joined: 28 Nov 2007  | I dislike how lists like this paint the gaming industry as a satanic cesspool, something that has become an all to prevalent trend for right wing fundamentalist groups (and Fox news). I have no beef with any religion and of course I am completely fine with the choices made my parents pertaining to games they buy. what I have a problem with is when people believe it is their right to claim that these games are evil, and their duty to ensure that these games are not purchased because of "Gay Overtones". But seriously, Army of Two? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1094 Joined: 11 Oct 2008  | Sigh... They always do the same mistake. They try to stab a stone gargoyle with a toothpick. They always aim to stop the most commercially successful games in history and then wonder why we don't listen. It appears that when Jack Thompson's evil was destroyed, there was an imbalance in the world and many new evils had to be formed. Seriously World of Warcraft? A multimillion player player success earning billions and they hope to make a dent? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1584 Joined: 13 Oct 2008   |
Thank you, that sums up my feelings 100%!!! |
Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 3 Dec 2008 | if you cant get to the PDF they put up (they hot-link protected it, so it looks like) you have to go to the main site and click on it to get to it.. :( http://www.timothyplan.com/ProActive/frame-ProActive-videogame.htm then click on the links on the right.... thats how I was able to get to it.. |
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Your Guide to Morally Bankrupt Games
A "morally responsible" investment firm has concocted a thorough guide to the most shockingly offensive games you should absolutely, positively, definitely not buy this holiday season. Don't even think about it.
The Timothy Plan, a Florida-based investment group with strong conservative Christian leanings, is leading the morality police charge this Christmas with its new guide warning consumers about which videogames help destroy children and families with their heathen imagery and untoward elements. The guide, titled "An Inside Look Into Video Games," includes many of the usual suspects like the Grand Theft Auto games, Manhunt 2, and God of War 2 among other, more surprising titles like World of Warcraft and Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. Sex, violence, and drugs, are some of the classic forbidden themes the group zeroes-in on, but the guide also contains a strong anti-gay element, ranking homosexuality high on the no-no list.
As America's first pro-life, pro-family, biblically-based investment group, the Timothy Plan conducts online research on publically traded companies to gauge their moral integrity. "We then apply that information to maintain a "Do Not Buy List" for your family of morally responsible mutual funds," the group writes in its gaming guide. "We will not invest in companies that are involved in abortion, pornography, anti-family entertainment, alternative lifestyles, as well as alcohol, tobacco, and gambling."
In many instances, sex and nudity are often highlight at the top of the list in each entry in the guide, second only to gay and lesbian themes, and followed by violence and other presumably slightly less concerning issues like...oh, I don't know....getting high. Seriously though, the Timothy Plan seems to have developed a very strong gaydar. It has managed to uncover and highlight even the most tenuous morsels of gayness in games - even when they're not really there.
Army of Two is pegged for "somewhat homo-erotic undertones between the two main characters." Grand Theft Auto: IV gets the gay branding because Niko can solicit dates from other males on his website (though he doesn't actually date them...because he's straight). Saints Row 2 is flagged for "homosexual encounters" because players can cross dress and change their in-game voice to match their "homosexual or transgender" character they've created. Bully: Scholarship Edition is included for its "over the rainbow" achievement obtained by kissing 20 boys. At least Mass Effect is listed because you can actually have lesbian (alien) sex, instead of some other merely quasi-gay encounter. The ridiculous list goes on.
Honestly, if you count yourself one of the many, many people who do in fact enjoy nudity, sex, violence, strong language, addictive games, drugs, demons, gay and lesbian themes, comic mischief, or any of the numerous other red flags cited by the group as being morally reprehensible, you may want to check out their guide just to see what games you should run right out and buy this holiday season. The whole shebang is available for free in PDF format here.
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