Microsoft Accused of Ignoring Disc-Scratching Problem

Microsoft may have turned a blind eye to the Xbox 360's nasty habit of scratching discs, according to documents filed in a suit against the company.

Microsoft is facing a class action suit claiming that the Xbox 360, if moved slightly or nudged while spinning a disc, can lead to the disc being irreparably scratched. Now, a document from the motion is alleging that Microsoft may have been aware of the problem several months before the console even launched.

"This is ... information that we as a team, optical disc drive team, knew about," Hiroo Umeno, a Microsoft program manager, is quoted as saying. "When we first discovered the problem in September or October [2005], when we got a first report of disc movement, we knew this is what's causing the problem."

The document then alleges that Microsoft conducted extensive in-store surveying to investigate the problem, and that they confirmed that a nudge or tilt of the console would cause the disc to hit the console's optical pickup, thus scratching the discs.

After further investigation, the optical disc team conceived of three solutions to the problem: increasing the magnetic field of the disc holder, slowing the disc drive down or to install bumpers. Microsoft supposedly rejected all three ideas, either for lack of cost-effectiveness or for conflicting with the current design and efficiency of the system as it was at the time. Instead, Microsoft created a disc replacement policy and stuck a warning label on the console advising users to remove discs before moving or tilting their machines.

Microsoft responded to the accusations, claiming that the problem was not specific to the 360. "Xbox 360 is designed so that it will not damage a game disc as long as the console is not moved while the disc is spinning," a Microsoft spokesman told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. "Too much movement of any game console, not just Xbox 360, can cause scratches on a disc. That's why we put a warning on the face of the disc tray, which the user has to physically remove before the initial use of the system. We also have warnings posted online and in hard copy instruction manuals."

Microsoft also stated that the 55,000 complaints it has received this year related to the disc-scratching issue represented only a small percentage of the userbase.

"While we have had some users contact us with concerns about scratched discs, it is less than one-half of 1% of the total Xbox 360 user base," Microsoft said.

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It's not just when moving it. My 360 has put huge wounds in a few disc without being moved at all.

Keane Ng:

Microsoft also stated that the 55,000 complaints it has received this year related to the disc-scratching issue represented only a small percentage of the userbase.

"While we have had some users contact us with concerns about scratched discs, it is less than one-half of 1% of the total Xbox 360 user base," Microsoft said.

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My guess is that this is the only percent of the user base that actually bothers to look at the bottom of their discs. You would be shocked to know the amount of people who do not realize that scratches on discs can hinder playability.

I was devastated when my 360 "ringed" my Oblivion disc, with a nice circular gouge. Same thing happened on my mates 360 so it's not an isolate occurence.

Programmed_For_Damage:
I was devastated when my 360 "ringed" my Oblivion disc, with a nice circular gouge. Same thing happened on my mates 360 so it's not an isolate occurence.

It did the same to mine and it also did it to my fallout 3 disc. However those are the only 2 games to be affected so I think my xbox hates my favourite game developer.

Rezfon:

Programmed_For_Damage:
I was devastated when my 360 "ringed" my Oblivion disc, with a nice circular gouge. Same thing happened on my mates 360 so it's not an isolate occurence.

It did the same to mine and it also did it to my fallout 3 disc. However those are the only 2 games to be affected so I think my xbox hates my favourite game developer.

Same. It's only happened to Oblivion. I'm now concerned about getting Fallout 3 now.

MrBliss:
It's not just when moving it. My 360 has put huge wounds in a few disc without being moved at all.

Same here, lost my COD 4 and Rock Band 2 to it. I have howeve found a nifty possible fix. After the new update with the ability to save games to your hardrive, it's possible to save someones elses copy and then run it with your disc as long as the actual DRM itself is not damaged. I have tested this with a few games for both myself and some others and got some games that wouldn't even start to run from the harddrive, but others however could not be read.

Keane Ng:

Microsoft responded to the accusations, claiming that the problem was not specific to the 360. "Xbox 360 is designed so that it will not damage a game disc as long as the console is not moved while the disc is spinning," a Microsoft spokesman told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. "Too much movement of any game console, not just Xbox 360, can cause scratches on a disc. That's why we put a warning on the face of the disc tray, which the user has to physically remove before the initial use of the system. We also have warnings posted online and in hard copy instruction manuals."

actually i do believe they said they knew and the cheapest way was to put a warning in the manual.

however last time i checked most ppl don't move their console while they play it, does m$ think that we form conga lines and dance around the room while playing our consoles?

funny how they've admitted to knowing about the overheating/faulty cpu/gpu and now this and ppl still think it's a great system

Same happened to my Gears of War disc on the day I bought it, but that was just because I forgot it was in and nudged it by accident. It still works....mostly, sometimes it gives me a disc reading error, I just reset it when it happens and hope it gets past the spot it stopped.

It scrathced it a little bit before I decided to install it on the hard drive, which is a very good decision. Fallout 3 is awesome so don't let the xbox stop you.

I'm coming up on a year with my Xbox and have never had this happen. But I had heard beforehand about the frailty of the system and therefore am extremely careful around it.

Honestly, I've had my 1 year old (as of December 25) Xbox 360 Elite fall from a vertical position on a shelf 16 inches off the floor while playing CoD 4 (I put it too close to the edge). I've heard ugly grinding noises, and expected the worst. But to my surprise, there were nothing but surface dings. No deep cuts, no ring around the disc, and it still plays like the day I bought it. I've never had any Red Ring issues, save one time when a surge overloaded the transformer, and I had to unplug it and plug it back in. The only real problem I've ever had was the RF Module (Ring of Light) wasn't working right, and that was fixed by just taking the front panel off, and firmly tapping it a few times. I didn't even have to break the warranty sticker.

I'm pretty sure a lot of us can relate too this. It happened to a used game i bought, as well as my friends brand spanking new copy of gears on his brand spankin new 360 back in august.

"Too much movement of any game console, not just Xbox 360, can cause scratches on a disc. That's why we put a warning on the face of the disc tray, which the user has to physically remove before the initial use of the system. We also have warnings posted online and in hard copy instruction manuals."

"I didn't think you were serious, therefore I'm suing you on behalf of idiots like me who ignored basic instructions!" Waah. They get no sympathy or support from me, they're no better than that cow that spilled coffee in her lap and sued McDonalds for it. Don't blame someone else for your own stupidity when you've been clearly warned.

However someone that didn't move/bump/jostle/tango with their console while it was playing and still got a scratched game should be entitled to fair compensation from Microsoft in the form of a replacement disc.

This damn problem ruined my first copy of COD4, almost my secound copy, and scratched many others. This pisses me off almost as much as when I got the RROD.

Why would Microsoft fix it? If you break a disk you have to buy a new copy.

Pseudonym2:
Why would Microsoft fix it? If you break a disk you have to buy a new copy.

Well, if you get sued and lose, you lose a lot more than just cost of the disc.

Scratch disk, a curse of disk based gaming ever since the PC first saw the CD and the PS1 and Sega Saturns hit the market. Was almost if not more evil than Super Nintendo having to blow out the cartrage slot constently to get dust out of it. Nintendo and Sony did a much nicer job with their consoles being nearly scratch proof. I don't have a single PS3 game with a scratch, and it's very nice knowing that the games will last nearly as long as the plastic degrades. lol Most likely the games will out last their consoles for decades after the consoles kick the bucket. Ps1 was the worst scratcher out of the many years of disk gaming but I think the 360 may get that title now. lol

Woe Is You:

Pseudonym2:
Why would Microsoft fix it? If you break a disk you have to buy a new copy.

Well, if you get sued and lose, you lose a lot more than just cost of the disc.

This is Microsoft. They aren't going to lose.

My 360 has yet to do this.

just going to say that.

The only time I've ever seen this happen is when my friend was struck with a sudden case of "the dumbass", and thought it was a good idea to move his console with Gears of War playing. Needless to say (but I will anyways), it got a nice big scratch around it.

Since I've never seen it happen for any other reason, I'm gonna have to say that it's not Microsofts fault if you can't take the time to skim the instructions for giant red letters saying "DO NOT MOVE WHILE PLAYING".

Besides, they sell disk-scratch repair kits that work quite well for about 20-30 dollars anyways.

And this, my friends, is why I think a modchip is an integral part of any console. It's bad enough that you have to pay 4 times for the same game if you want to enjoy it on 4 different systems, you also have to pay double, triple and more for every game if someone, including Microsoft, damages it. "Pirate and try out everything you want, then pay for what you like and want to see more of" is my moto.

I disagree with the microsoft representative.

Moving an N64 whilst it's running will not do any damage to the disk!

I haven't had a problem with my xbox 360 scratching my disks, but it "scuffs" them. It like it rubs parts of the disk with some kind of abrasions.

When too many abrasions add up I start getting read/disk errors. I paid a game store to polish the scuffs off but I can already hear my Fallout 3 disk being ground up again... :(

this has happened to everyone i know it is not rare

Not my problem. After my third fucking RRoD in six months, I finally gained enough common sense to give up on the unmitigated pile of shit that is the Xbox 360. Enjoy, suckers.

I've had my 360 for about 14 months, it scratched two games in the past two months. I didn't even have to move it! The fact that Microsoft isn't refunding scratched games is ridiculous. Well, they might refund my copy of Halo, but the only downside there is that I don't fucking play Halo.

My X360 creates a perfect circular scratch.. but fortunately just before the data starts.