CliffyB: Microsoft Tried to "Have it Both Ways"

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God this just reminded me of the Simpsons episode where Homer designs a car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpPuYGPcvD4

But instead of saying oh god no one will pay it, saying well if it costs so much the people should buy for the price then...

Hazy992:
No Clifford, what's got to change is the absolutely ridiculous budgets of AAA games and the idea that every game must cost $60. When games are selling 3 million copies in a month but are still deemed failures, then there's something fundamentally wrong with the way games are being made. Games don't need huge budgets and jaw dropping graphics to succeed, this has been proven time and time again with games like Dark Souls and the seemingly never ending wealth of awesome indie content.

For once why don't AAA publishers take some fucking responsibility for their own self destructive actions instead of blaming everyone else and screwing the consumer over? The current AAA situation is simply unsustainable and if this carries on I don't forsee anything other than some rather large ships sinking.

THIS !! HOLY SHIT ALL OF THE THIS !!

"When I see studio after studio closing and the aforementioned alluded titles failing I know something's got to change."

Goddamned right somethings gotta change. Game studios need to quit putting themselves in the shadow of giant publishing corps who care nothing about their autonomy, and instead just see them as another asset that can be liquidated if things turn sour. They also need to stop sinking all their money and hopes into a few games with a cast of thousands AND a thousand elephants, where by they need to push millions of game copies to break even, let alone turn a profit. The hard headed arrogance of fucksticks like this guy are what is responsible for game studios (and the game industry in general) going tits up. Not fucking used game buyers.

Now onto the whole "Microsoft wanted to have it both ways" malarkey. Bullshit! Microsoft created a weak, expensive console that offered next to nothing new for the gaming customer except for a ton of unfair and retarded social media and DRM features nobody fucking wanted. They didn't want anything both ways, they just wanted everything THEIR way, and fuck the consumer.

So in short the best way we can help change the industry is to stop listening to jackholes like the Microsoft spin doctors and idiots like Cliff Bleszinski. Fuck him, fuck Microsoft, fuck the kinect, and fuck their little dog too.

Charcharo:
Why do discs stop digital distribution? I am a PC gamer yet I buy all retail :P . I like boxes. And if you want a copy of your game:
1. Get it whilst its cheap on your online retailer
2. Buy a box
3. Print awesome custom box art.
4. IF (and it probably does not) it has a good manual, print it too. Most dont though, so 98% of the time this step can be forgotten :P
5. ????
6. Profit.

Fixed that for ya.

OT:
I'm honestly starting to think that it's time to find another hobby. There seems to be very little that's good in the gaming world now, and I'm tired of all this shit. Maybe I should take a break from gaming sites for a while, I'm sure that'll make me feel better.

tardcore:

They also need to stop sinking all their money and hopes into a few games with a cast of thousands AND a thousand elephants, where by they need to push millions of game copies to break even, let alone turn a profit. The hard headed arrogance of fucksticks like this guy are what is responsible for game studios (and the game industry in general) going tits up. Not fucking used game buyers.

Boom. This is it. Smaller studios producing more original content instead of mega studios producing the same old crap is preferable.

"When I see studio after studio closing and the aforementioned alluded titles failing I know something's got to change."

[/quote]

We're in agreement there. Maybe if the corporate bottom line wasn't so important to holier-than-thou executives who can't see more than six inches in front of their face, this wouldn't be an issue.

Nah. Gotta be used games.

FightingFurball:
God this just reminded me of the Simpsons episode where Homer designs a car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpPuYGPcvD4

But instead of saying oh god no one will pay it, saying well if it costs so much the people should buy for the price then...

Clearly, the used market has stopped Homer's car from selling.

And what a fine set of clothes our Emperor just bought.

Hail CliffyB! Hail!

Let the big budget AAA games die, I say. If that's all that the Xbone was going to offer us anyway, I say, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. Give us our indie developers with new ideas and a passion for the game rather than the over-hyped marketing pulp churned out by a cash-grabbing machine. Don't get me wrong, I love some of those AAA titles when they're done well, but they can't sustain the industry on CoD clones alone forever.

While offering few kind words for the "internet pitchfork mob who can only see 6 inches in front of their face," he isn't without criticism for Microsoft.

Hmmmm, and yet he goes on to say...

"Customers can smell from a mile away when you're treating them like children, peeking your head into their bedroom on a regular basis in an attempt to catch them doing something."

So take heart, fellow gamers! We might be blind as bats but we've got the noses of bloodhounds!

God, what a contradictory load of shit. Here's an interesting concept that I bet never crossed Cliffy's mind...maybe the problem is with the developers and publishers and not with the consumers? Publishers that say "If this homogenized piece of crap action-shooter game doesn't sell X copies, we're sacking the studio" while demanding that said studio make the game as friendly and broad-reaching as possible...which inevitably leads to a bland piece of crap that "customers can smell from a mile away" and as such the sales suffer because it's got corporate meddling's stink all over it.

I'm just waiting for the day when it all comes tumbling down, destroy all the corrosion and corruption in the current league of publishers and developers and gives way for the new companies to grow, expand, and take their place. Essentially like how a purging fire on the plains is actually good for the environment.

Dragonbums:
After the last article quoting Cliffy B., Why the hell are we still giving this dude the time of day?

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.

He has a point the only way to change is to offer gamer abetter deal and digital. Obliviously, brute forcing a change by take something away and not offering anything in return is not the way to go.

RoBi3.0:

Dragonbums:
After the last article quoting Cliffy B., Why the hell are we still giving this dude the time of day?

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.

He has a point the only way to change is to offer gamer abetter deal and digital. Obliviously, brute forcing a change by take something away and not offering anything in return is not the way to go.

There are plenty of people in the game industry who have made financial success off of many games. That doesn't mean that they are smart or say the best of things.

EA makes millions, and we don't trust a word that comes out of their mouths.

It seems, as far as the Escapist goes, half the things he says are downright laughable, at worst ignorant.

Zachary Amaranth:

"When I see studio after studio closing and the aforementioned alluded titles failing I know something's got to change."

We're in agreement there. Maybe if the corporate bottom line wasn't so important to holier-than-thou executives who can't see more than six inches in front of their face, this wouldn't be an issue.

Nah. Gotta be used games.[/quote]

Or it could be that the games, no matter what people on the Internet say, just are not good or they do not sell at all because of being too niche or for some other reasonable explanation.

Nahh. Has to be executives.

Dragonbums:

RoBi3.0:

Dragonbums:
After the last article quoting Cliffy B., Why the hell are we still giving this dude the time of day?

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.

He has a point the only way to change is to offer gamer abetter deal and digital. Obliviously, brute forcing a change by take something away and not offering anything in return is not the way to go.

There are plenty of people in the game industry who have made financial success off of many games. That doesn't mean that they are smart or say the best of things.

EA makes millions, and we don't trust a word that comes out of their mouths.

It seems, as far as the Escapist goes, half the things he says are downright laughable, at worst ignorant.

I don't take anything anyone says as gospel truth, but when CliffyB says day one digital needs to be cheaper then disks then I think his words have merit. When he says more micro-transactions are coming, I say thanks, but I didn't need you to tell me that. That trend is on the steady rise.

CliffyB likes to troll people. This is a fact. That doesn't Change the fact that what he has said in this article has merit.

Bleszinki makes a big deal about Gamestop pushing used sales over new, but there's a reason they do that. Game retailers make so much more profit from used sales because they only make a buck or two from selling a new title. If you're going to set it up so you reap the lion's share in new game sales, don't be surprised when retailers push used sales.

jurnag12:

and affirming his belief that the changes the Xbox One would bring to used games might be a necessity for AAA titles to survive.

I was unaware that the Xbone was going to drop development costs and stop the companies from wasting money.

Then you are unaware of how the videogame industry works. Games are, by definition, a loss leader. Millions of dollars are spent on development, but publishers only recoup their losses and hopefully make a profit when new copies are sold. The massive used games market is REALLY bad for anyone who makes their living developing games, because they see no money from the huge portion of the market that can only afford to buy most of their games for used prices. Digital distribution is a really good solution for this that removes the middle-man and actually allows for competitive sales. In the end, gamers end up with a system like Steam that occasionally gives us really great games for insanely low prices, and devs actually get money for those sales, so they can keep making games!

Most gamers don't realize this, but the traditional publishing model is in a really bad way with the current brick-and-mortar used games business. When you go to GameStop and get a used copy of, lets say, The Witcher 2 for 360, you are giving GameStop 100% of that money, and although you're enjoying the work of an amazing dev studio, they won't see any profit from your purchase. With digital distribution, they can sell that AAA game for six freaking bucks (right now on gog.com), and actually come out ahead!

If the Xbone had come out as announced, and publishers were allowed to 'block' used games, you wouldn't see a gamestop filled with nothing but $60 new titles, you would likely see close to the same prices you see now, the only difference would have been that publishers and devs would have actually seen a share of profit from their hard work. If anything, giving publishers price control would be good for gamers, finally allowing for competitive pricing of console games, rather than what we have now.

AAA Titles can't survive because they are generic and stupid, it's not gamers fault that companys are splurging on the graphic's budget (which to be honest, seems to be where most of the budget is going.) CliffyB doesn't seem to understand how damaging his comments are to his reputation.

kiri2tsubasa:

Or it could be that the games, no matter what people on the Internet say, just are not good or they do not sell at all because of being too niche or for some other reasonable explanation.

Nahh. Has to be executives.

Yeah, that's why the last Gears of War didn't sell so hot. Too niche.

...I mean, seriously? That's what you're going for, dude?

RoBi3.0:

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.

So might Peter Moore and John Riccitiello, but people don't treat them as though their word is gospel.

Incidentally, he does have a point. It appears to be accidental, because the point he's trying to make is USED GAMES ARE KILLING THE BUSINESS. Yeah, better digital and netter deals are an actual solution. Except his solution has been to blame gamers for refusing to stop buying used, because surely that's the reason games that can sell 5 million copies and be considered failures aren't making enough money.

In any other industry, people would be all "maybe we should sell a reasonable product with production costs within the means of the market." Well, any other industry but the American automotive industry, who saw high gas prices and a recession and thought "you know what Americans want? Nothing but SUVs and monster trucks!"

And in the end, they needed to be bailed out, so maybe there's a lesson here.

What Cliff Blurty is saying is technically correct: something's gotta give. But if you look at his tirades against usd games, it's the not the prices or the online model. Except, evidently, if the online model is too permissive.

We didn't mess this up MS messed this up. If you want to change the world you don't give it to MS PR to sell, worse bit of PR I have ever seen.
You really can't at this point stop physical media, unless ofc you don't want to sell you product. Many ppl's data caps won't allow them to download anywhere from 20-50 gigs.
Nothing about these changes stops MS from promoting digital sales. But it is up to them to SELL IT to ppl.

And they are awful at that.

They had to make this argument, and they didn't.

The message was lost and so was the battle, but maybe not the war.

If a game can sell 3-5 million copies and be considered a failure, the problem isn't used games, it's development costs. Forcing the consumer to never buy used copies isn't going to help much. It's treating a symptom, not a disease, so to speak. If games go all digital, and prevent people from buying used games (the only reason I can think of where anyone would legitimately want an all-digital future), we might see some improvements in sales. A little bit. But eventually, no matter what happens, the costs either need to go down or the whole system is going to collapse. Probably the latter.

Cliff, Cliff, Cliff. I thought we'd covered this before, so I'll make this as simple as possible.

If the system is so broken that millions of sales still isn't enough to save a game, then you don't break the customers to conform to the system- you fix the system.

Go talk to the guy who made Gunpoint. Total investment of $30, made enough money to become an independent developer.

Zachary Amaranth:

kiri2tsubasa:

Or it could be that the games, no matter what people on the Internet say, just are not good or they do not sell at all because of being too niche or for some other reasonable explanation.

Nahh. Has to be executives.

Yeah, that's why the last Gears of War didn't sell so hot. Too niche.

...I mean, seriously? That's what you're going for, dude?

Talking about the closing of studios part.

Zachary Amaranth:

kiri2tsubasa:

Or it could be that the games, no matter what people on the Internet say, just are not good or they do not sell at all because of being too niche or for some other reasonable explanation.

Nahh. Has to be executives.

Yeah, that's why the last Gears of War didn't sell so hot. Too niche.

...I mean, seriously? That's what you're going for, dude?

Talking about the closing of studios part.

nodlimax:
Real [Enthusiastic] gamers read about new developments themselves and are going to buy good and interesting games.

Agreed. That's pretty much what I was going to say.

The Witcher 2 made a ton of money without dumbing down the game or shelling out tens of millions in marketing alone. And so did Dark Souls.

And yet Tomb Raider sold 5 million in a month or whatever and it "Failed to meet sales expectations".

Developers and publishers need to take a good look at such examples. Only one game can be Call of Duty, and that's Call of Duty. Only one game can be WoW, and guess who that is?

CriticalMiss:
I bet Cliffy B is taking it both ways from Microsoft. HIIIYOOOOO. Can I get a high five? *hand up*

*high five*
OP: Some people just don't get it. They can't be bought or reasoned with. Some men just want to watch the industry crash.

RoBi3.0:

Dragonbums:
After the last article quoting Cliffy B., Why the hell are we still giving this dude the time of day?

Maybe becomes he was an industry insider for almost two decades and has developed more then one wildly successful game. Might be he my know something about the industry. Just sayin.

See, this is my problem. Bleszinski thinks that just because he developed a few successful games and owns a six car garage that people are interested in what he has to say, despite the fact that the man is clearly a complete idiot and has nothing worthwhile to offer other than playing the part of loyal corporate toady at every available opportunity. He thinks that the fanbase for his games justify this blatant corporatism. Well, the fact is that if Shigeru Miyamoto, or Gabe Newell or whoever else came out and spouted shit like he did people would quickly turn against them and call them out on their bullshit, and Bleszinski is certainly no Miyamoto or Newell.

HELLO, FLIP-FLOP!

Wow, can you believe this guy? He's already a certified politician and everything!

Quick! Someone ask him about the war on terror! The WORLD must know his well-considered opinion!

(So much funnyness...)

While...I won't say "apologists"- proponents of the xbone's digital transition claim that we should have had faith in the new system, the overall way they handled it was largely a breach of both expectations and trust. Granted, all the marketing in the world won't cover up the downsides to the system, but I daresay they could have at least tried to appeal to their primary target market first, instead of alienating most of them.

In any case, unless Microsoft is willing to actually take the first step towards shedding the excesses of the past without burdening it with crazy sounding conditions, there won't be a future for them any time soon.

Whatever, just let it ride out. So what if we're approaching the end of sustainability for the AAA games market? Either adapt and survive, or do something else.

In the 70's, the US got hit with the oil and gas crisis, and the sustainability of America's gas-guzzling cars was put into the spotlight. It killed muscle cars, and Detroit spent a decade playing catch up with emissions controls. But you know what else happened? We saw the birth of the American golden age of motorcycles, which gave rise to classics like the Honda CB750K (the founder of the moniker 'superbike'). We also saw the influx of foreign auto manufacturers, such as Datsun (now Nissan), Totota, Honda, and Volkswagen. We saw a new direction of cars, and we got new models we wouldn't have seen otherwise, like the Datsun 240Z and the Honda CRX (the founder of the 'pocket rocket' hatchbacks). Yeah, it basically neutered the Corvette and Mustang until Detroit learned to adapt to the new environment, but so be it. We got smaller, safer, and more fuel efficient cars because of it.

The AAA games market will figure itself out, or morph into something else. Not everything can, or needs to be, the next Call of Duty or Madden. Likewise, not everything needed or could be a classic Corvette or Mustang. Others will rise to take their places, to fill new or existing niches.

Hell, my most anticipated game this year (barring a surprise holiday release for Fallout 4), is the pseudo-sequel to Terraria known as Starbound. No seriously, go check it out. Development team of about a dozen people. I'm also psyched for the Wasteland and Shadowrun games coming out of Kickstarter. It'll be a good year for gaming, even sans the AAA market. They're not the only 'game' in town, and if they collapse under their own weight, others will fill the gap. They always do.

I personally think that used games can be helpfull to game developers. Case in point: When Arkham Asylum first came out I completely ignored it as to me superhero games are generally pretty poor. But when I saw a second hand copy selling for dirt cheap I decided to give it a bash. Turns out it was one of the best games I own on PS3 and I ended up buying arkham city on launch day for about 3 times the price of my second hand asylum. But now thanks to day one dlc I've lost interest in the series.

kiri2tsubasa:

Talking about the closing of studios part.

And the thing is, studios closing because they're too "niche" is a load of crap, still. There may be some, but they are not the issue here. I would think anyone with the awareness to follow context would pick up on this. We're having studios closing left and right despite releasing games with good aggregates (which matter to publishers) and good sales, because they weren't good enough.

Contextually, this is what Cliff's been talking about with his rants about how we can't expect high budget games to survive if we allow used game sales. Cliff wasn't alluding to niche titles, he was alluding to the big ones Gamestop tries to get you to trade in/for. He's repeatedly brought up huge budgets. He's referenced some of the biggest freaking franchises on the freaking planet. Can you see why saying "maybe it's because they're too niche" is ridiculous?

In short, you're ranting at me because you didn't pay attention to the subject at hand. Not cool, man, not cool.

FalloutJack:
HELLO, FLIP-FLOP!

Wow, can you believe this guy? He's already a certified politician and everything!

Quick! Someone ask him about the war on terror! The WORLD must know his well-considered opinion!

(So much funnyness...)

He even contradicts himself in his blog, talking about messaging, then giving an example of a thinly-veiled "fuck off" to the consumer...And then acknowledges it. I'm not sure if he's serious anymore.

If i may misquote Marcus Fenix

"Its a giant budget! They're sinking AAA games with a giant budget!"

I'm still trying to figure what exactly Cliffy B. does to make his money. His marketing strategy sucks, his attitude towards the consumer sucks and his main franchise (GoW) has lost any appeal to mainstream audiences. The only people I know who bought Judgement were diehard fans already; everyone else could care less.

So I guess my question is, does this guy ever stop and consider reality before opening his mouth to talk about how much we love giving Microsoft money?

internet pitchfork mob who can only see 6 inches in front of their face

said by a guy who predominately develops games for the meathead MP masses.

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