Good Old Games: Pirates Are Our Competition, Not Steam

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Even if Steam and GoG don't have the same catalogue of games, they are still competing. Money I spend on GoG isn't money I spend on Steam, or vice-versa.

I think GoG is a better service than Steam since when I buy a game its mine to play instead of having to use Steam's finicky offline mode; I've only ever been able to get it to work for about two weeks before it tries and make me log in again. I love older games but I still have a much larger library of games on Steam than GoG simply becacuse I played most of the games in GoG's library that I've wanted to play and still have the discs for them.

I don't sweat Valve going under and I'm glad they're not a publicly traded company and don't have share holder hopps to jump through.

Mycroft Holmes:

Magmarock:

Look, if you going to take things to the absolute extremes like renting property and compare it to buying a video game, that's just silly.

Oh God you're one of those people who doesn't read or basically lacks reading comprehension skills. Give me a sec I'm going to buckle up for the next three posts as you struggle to figure out what has been said.

No one compared renting property to videogames. You said and I quote "If you pay for something it should be yours." You didn't say if I pay for a videogame it should be mine. You said if I pay for 'something.' A statement which I patently pointed out to be false and ridiculous. You don't automatically get ownership of something just for paying money.

Magmarock:
If you're going to be charged upwards of $50 or $100 for a game you shouldn't need to deal with online DRM to use it.

Why? Because you don't want to?

Magmarock:
I don't call the phone company to make a call

But you route calls through their substations. Which is why there was a big hullabaloo about recording/spying on calls by the US government. Because you are connecting to stations that the phone companies have set up and run and they can monitor through traffic in order to route calls correctly from place to place.

So when you make a phone call you sent it through a series of wires or bounce it off of a series of satellites run by the phone company that send your call to where you want it to go allowing you to use a phone.

When you play an always online DRM videogame you send data packets to a server run by whatever company is running it, and they send back an activation signal.

It's not exactly the same but it is pretty close and it completely invalidates your statement/comparison.

Magmarock:
and I don't connect my TV to the internet to use it either.

You don't? I certainly do. Commercials are for plebes.

Magmarock:
DRM servs the publishers not the consumers.

Publishers serve the consumers. That's what a business is. They make things that consumers want and we buy them. And without their capital we wouldn't have the games we do.

Magmarock:
As for lively hoods, well if you're lively hood involves taking away the rights of others then I can't see see myself defending it.

What rights have been taken away? You're making things up that don't exist. Just because you want something to be real doesn't mean that it is.

There are no protections in the constitution guaranteeing you don't have to license a product to use it.

There are no protections in the amendments about such rights.

There are no such protections in the consumer protection laws.

The Supreme Court of the United States says you do not have any such right.

You're literally just imagining some right that does not exist and saying 'o my God the corperashuns is taking mai rigtes.' The same thing is happening to me bro. Corporations already are infringing on my right to wander around in their factories taking notes. It's like man isn't this a free country? Lyke why can't I walk anywhere I want? Capitalist pigs.

Magmarock:
It's like saying "yeah he's a thief but that's his lively hood you know."

No it isn't. There is no comparison to be made. You have paid money for a license to use a product. They don't take that product away from you in pretty much any cases, because they are not assholes.

If you metaphor was to be even remotely accurate the thief would have to sell you a product then totally let you use it according to the agreement you made with him without infringing on your use of it. That doesn't sound like a thief at all. Probably because it isn't one.

Magmarock:
Game publishers have been getting more and more desperate to ruin consumer rights (remember SOPA and PIPA) and I am no longer connived piracy has anything to do with it.

Yes and it got shot down so what is your point? Lets go through some of my own.

1) Game publishers are not congress. Congress submitted this law not the publishers.

2) Congress and the game publishers aren't the only people allowed to do anything. This is a system of checks and balances that push the country towards the middle point. Which is why it didn't pass.

3) If it did pass it is subject to judicial review which could very very easily have found against it for any myriad of reasons such as violation of the right to free speech(which is an actual right. Like from the constitution and everything. I didn't make it up like some people.)

Magmarock:
I think it's more to do with killing the competition of self publishing.

And how would it do this?

Copyrighted unique material created by private developers with intent to distribute it through their own website can't be infringed on unless it was like a game about fucking children or something. And even then it would probably have to include pictures of actual children.

Magmarock:
This kind of business practice leads to so many probables and you're not helping annoying by apologizing for it.

Again, with the not reading.

Apologizing would be "yeah man I know they steal your games and you are totally right but I'm sorry that they are doing that and they don't mean nothing by it."

This is not an apology. The last post was not an apology. And pointing out that you are wrong might be annoying to you; but I'm sorry, because you're wrong. Being correct in the future will probably make things less 'annoying' for you. Publishers aren't stealing your games; point me to one time when someone was locked out of their games without illegally using chargeback to steal from the developer/publisher. You're imagining rights that don't exist, that high courts around the world have said don't exist. Point me to the law that says you have whatever consumer rights you think you have.

Oh and pro tip bro, you should read GOGs ToS some time. Boy are you in for a disappointment.

Oh for crying out loud. What's annoying me is that you're taking any of this in. I don't care what GOG's terms of service are, I can keep my games from GOG I can't from Steam it's as simple as that.

As for the law that points out consumer rights, well I do happen to have a case for you. The case of iinet an Australian based ISP that was being sued by 7 Hollywood studios for allying it's users to access the pirate bay. In the USA ISP are forced to block such websites.

The supreme court ruled in favor of iinet unanimously stating that an ISP can not and will not be held accountable for the actions of their users. This was a victory for not only national business rights but also consumer rights. Another consumer right is your right to return and or get refunded over defective goods or goods there were purchased under false advertising. In other words if you by an xbox 360 and it red rings outside of warranty you still have the right to get a refund for it due to the manufacturing fault.

Granted you do have to jump though some hoops, but no matter what the warranty says if you buy some that breaks inside of 3 ears due to a manufacturing fault you are entitled to a refund that is your right here.

Magmarock:

Oh for crying out loud. What's annoying me is that you're taking any of this in. I don't care what GOG's terms of service are, I can keep my games from GOG I can't from Steam it's as simple as that.

You can 'keep' your games from both services. Just because they don't have DRM doesn't change the licensing rights for anything that isn't freeware.

Also I'm not even sure what "What's annoying me is that you're taking any of this in" even means. It annoys you that I'm taking what in? You aren't completing the thought(which isn't surprising.)

Magmarock:
As for the law that points out consumer rights, well I do happen to have a case for you. The case of iinet an Australian based ISP that was being sued by 7 Hollywood studios for allying it's users to access the pirate bay. In the USA ISP are forced to block such websites.

Oh hey person who apparently lives outside of the US and has done absolutely no research beyond someone told me something that agrees with my world view therefore it must be 100% right and I have no need to check up on it or ensure it is even true before spouting it off.

image

Lets try again shall we?

Magmarock:
The supreme court ruled in favor of iinet unanimously stating that an ISP can not and will not be held accountable for the actions of their users. This was a victory for not only national business rights but also consumer rights. Another consumer right is your right to return and or get refunded over defective goods or goods there were purchased under false advertising. In other words if you by an xbox 360 and it red rings outside of warranty you still have the right to get a refund for it due to the manufacturing fault.

Granted you do have to jump though some hoops, but no matter what the warranty says if you buy some that breaks inside of 3 ears due to a manufacturing fault you are entitled to a refund that is your right here.

What in the holy hell are you even talking about? This is a discussion about your "right" to own videogames instead of licensing them. Absolutely none of your cases were on point or relevant to the discussion at all. I don't give a shit if ISPs are allowed to provide access to websites. That in no way advances your argument that you have a right to buy and own games instead of leasing them. I don't give a crap that you can return defective goods. That in no way advances your argument that you have a right to buy and own games instead of leasing them.

It's like if we were arguing over speed limit laws and you started telling me about how by law you have to get your car smog checked. I don't give a shit. It has nothing to do with the topic of discussion. I have never said nor will I ever say that you have zero consumer protections. There are plenty of consumer protections: "Among them are the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, Truth in Lending Act, Fair Credit Billing Act, and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act."

You have failed to provide any relevant information that says you have such a right(because you don't,) to own a game instead of leasing it. So either show me the laws and court cases that actually pertain to that topic or shut up about your imaginary "rights." I'll do you a favor though, there aren't any such laws or legal precedents. You're making up "rights" that don't exist and are completely unsupported from a legal standpoint in any way shape or form; and no amount of telling me about unrelated shit is going to change that.

Mycroft Holmes:

Magmarock:

Oh for crying out loud. What's annoying me is that you're taking any of this in. I don't care what GOG's terms of service are, I can keep my games from GOG I can't from Steam it's as simple as that.

You can 'keep' your games from both services. Just because they don't have DRM doesn't change the licensing rights for anything that isn't freeware.

Also I'm not even sure what "What's annoying me is that you're taking any of this in" even means. It annoys you that I'm taking what in? You aren't completing the thought(which isn't surprising.)

Magmarock:
As for the law that points out consumer rights, well I do happen to have a case for you. The case of iinet an Australian based ISP that was being sued by 7 Hollywood studios for allying it's users to access the pirate bay. In the USA ISP are forced to block such websites.

Oh hey person who apparently lives outside of the US and has done absolutely no research beyond someone told me something that agrees with my world view therefore it must be 100% right and I have no need to check up on it or ensure it is even true before spouting it off.

image

Lets try again shall we?

Magmarock:
The supreme court ruled in favor of iinet unanimously stating that an ISP can not and will not be held accountable for the actions of their users. This was a victory for not only national business rights but also consumer rights. Another consumer right is your right to return and or get refunded over defective goods or goods there were purchased under false advertising. In other words if you by an xbox 360 and it red rings outside of warranty you still have the right to get a refund for it due to the manufacturing fault.

Granted you do have to jump though some hoops, but no matter what the warranty says if you buy some that breaks inside of 3 ears due to a manufacturing fault you are entitled to a refund that is your right here.

What in the holy hell are you even talking about? This is a discussion about your "right" to own videogames instead of licensing them. Absolutely none of your cases were on point or relevant to the discussion at all. I don't give a shit if ISPs are allowed to provide access to websites. That in no way advances your argument that you have a right to buy and own games instead of leasing them. I don't give a crap that you can return defective goods. That in no way advances your argument that you have a right to buy and own games instead of leasing them.

It's like if we were arguing over speed limit laws and you started telling me about how by law you have to get your car smog checked. I don't give a shit. It has nothing to do with the topic of discussion. I have never said nor will I ever say that you have zero consumer protections. There are plenty of consumer protections: "Among them are the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, Truth in Lending Act, Fair Credit Billing Act, and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act."

You have failed to provide any relevant information that says you have such a right(because you don't,) to own a game instead of leasing it. So either show me the laws and court cases that actually pertain to that topic or shut up about your imaginary "rights." I'll do you a favor though, there aren't any such laws or legal precedents. You're making up "rights" that don't exist and are completely unsupported from a legal standpoint in any way shape or form; and no amount of telling me about unrelated shit is going to change that.

Oh for the love of... right I'm saying this one more time. I simply stated that you should have the right to keep what you buy because it's your property. And because I used the word "property" you came along with "Well technically it's not property because licenses and blah blah blah"

Who cares what the licenses agreement says, more importantly who even understands what it says. POINT IS, with GOG I keep my games with Steam I don't.

If you can't wrap your head around that, then I can't help you. Also no I will not go through all the trouble of researching all this legal nonsense just to prove a point. If you want a real case of someone obtaining ownership of intellectual property from a company you can go look for it your self. I'm sure there are plenty of cases for you.

MY argument is based on principles where as your argument is based on legal technicality regarding copy rights. A legal system that is hasn't been updated since the 70s hence why there are so many problems with it such who owns the rights to what and of course this stupid argument. I can not and will not respect copy right law until it's changed to meet with the times.

Now please don't bother me about this again.

Teoes:
Yeah I'm not sure GOG could get much more convenient.

The only thing they are lacking is a method for people not using any kind of card, there is no real excuse for it nowadays with any current account offering a debit card and pre-paid cards just about every where but there are still Luddites around.

Teoes:
Yeah I'm not sure GOG could get much more convenient. Unless you're wanting to patch/mod games that you've bought (which is none of their concern so nothing they can/should deal with) it really is a case of click to buy - click to download - click to install - click to play.

Hell from my limited knowledge of pirated games, aren't they more complex than that? I thought you generally had to muck about with ISOs and mounting virtual discs and all that jazz. Sounds like hassle to me. Pff I thought those pirates were supposed to be providing a service.

Mounting an ISO is as easy as:

Downloading and installing Virtual CloneDrive (free).
Right-click ISO, click mount.

Come to think of it I think Windows 8 has this built-in with no need for 3rd-party software. I have it anyway, since VCD gives me more control.

Mycroft Holmes:
Sure until GOG takes them away for lets see... oh right "any reason."

What games has steam stolen from you?

If Steam ever goes down you lose all the games you had on the service. GOG games can be copied, so if GOG ever goes down then all the games on my hard drive aren't going to disappear.

I won't be able to download them from their website any more, but if I'm clever and make a copy of every game I download from there then that'll never be an issue.

Mycroft Holmes:

Magmarock:

I simply stated that you should have the right to keep what you buy because it's your property.

Yes, and you don't buy videogames, so they are not your property.

Magmarock:
Who cares what the licenses agreement says

Attorneys, judges, law enforcement agents, juries, game developers, CEOs, programmers, writers, artists, publishers, investors, members of any body tasked with the creation of laws(eg. Congress or the Duma,) data miners, advertisers, average every day gamers.

Magmarock:
more importantly who even understands what it says.

People with basic English skills?

They write them in English so it's really easy you just have to know the meanings of words and be able to string them together. I know it's a novel concept! For example "You agree that GOG may terminate your log in access to the Service, including your user name and password, at any time for any reason without prior notice or liability." Feel like you can break that down? Sound the words out. I believe in you.

Magmarock:
POINT IS, with GOG I keep my games with Steam I don't.

Sure until GOG takes them away for lets see... oh right "any reason."

What games has steam stolen from you?

Magmarock:
If you can't wrap your head around that, then I can't help you.

I can easily wrap my head around the fact that neither GOG nor Steam actually sell you games and you are only leasing them, albeit with less restrictions from steam, which you would know if you could read simple sentences in EULAs or make posts without outright lying like 'omg ISPs ban websites in the US.'

Magmarock:
Also no I will not go through all the trouble of researching all this legal nonsense just to prove a point.

That's probably good because if you tried to find a law or a precedent that agreed with you, you would be researching for eternity. Much better just to make up lies, refuse to read any contradictionary opinions, go off topic, and then repeat your original argument like it hasn't been disproved on a basic objective factual basis 5 times over, already.

Magmarock:
If you want a real case of someone obtaining ownership of intellectual property from a company you can go look for it your self. I'm sure there are plenty of cases for you.

There aren't. It's always 'purchased' with restrictions. I don't live in Somalia and I'm assuming neither do you.

Magmarock:
MY argument is based on principles where as your argument is based on legal technicality regarding copy rights.

Read my posts. Try again. It is 100% principle which you ignored. The gaming industry would be wrecked by your belief system. I believe in protecting the producers, the developer, the programmers, the writers, the artists. The people you would throw under a bus competing against your imagined legal theft system.

Magmarock:
A legal system that is hasn't been updated since the 70s hence why there are so many problems with it such who owns the rights to what and of course this stupid argument.

Just like every argument you've made in this thread, yeah; proceed.

Magmarock:
I can not and will not respect copy right law until it's changed to meet with the times.

Now please don't bother me about this again.

Oh hey at least now you're not going on about the 'rights' that you don't have. At least now I know the next argument you have on this subject you will know that you're outright lying in the back of your head. I mean it won't stop you from lying anyways. But that kind of weakness does wonders to hurt self esteem, assuming of course that you aren't a sociopath, and actually feed bad about lying. Maybe that isn't too likely considering the proclivity by which you do it and how you ignorantly keep blundering forward with the same lies even when caught making them.

Here in Australia you can't actually sign away your consumer rights, so no mattewrwhat the end user license agreement says, if a company violates those rights you can still take them to court and you can look this up if you don't believe me. Now leave me alone.

Magmarock:

Mycroft Holmes:

Magmarock:

I simply stated that you should have the right to keep what you buy because it's your property.

Yes, and you don't buy videogames, so they are not your property.

Magmarock:
Who cares what the licenses agreement says

Attorneys, judges, law enforcement agents, juries, game developers, CEOs, programmers, writers, artists, publishers, investors, members of any body tasked with the creation of laws(eg. Congress or the Duma,) data miners, advertisers, average every day gamers.

Magmarock:
more importantly who even understands what it says.

People with basic English skills?

They write them in English so it's really easy you just have to know the meanings of words and be able to string them together. I know it's a novel concept! For example "You agree that GOG may terminate your log in access to the Service, including your user name and password, at any time for any reason without prior notice or liability." Feel like you can break that down? Sound the words out. I believe in you.

Magmarock:
POINT IS, with GOG I keep my games with Steam I don't.

Sure until GOG takes them away for lets see... oh right "any reason."

What games has steam stolen from you?

Magmarock:
If you can't wrap your head around that, then I can't help you.

I can easily wrap my head around the fact that neither GOG nor Steam actually sell you games and you are only leasing them, albeit with less restrictions from steam, which you would know if you could read simple sentences in EULAs or make posts without outright lying like 'omg ISPs ban websites in the US.'

Magmarock:
Also no I will not go through all the trouble of researching all this legal nonsense just to prove a point.

That's probably good because if you tried to find a law or a precedent that agreed with you, you would be researching for eternity. Much better just to make up lies, refuse to read any contradictionary opinions, go off topic, and then repeat your original argument like it hasn't been disproved on a basic objective factual basis 5 times over, already.

Magmarock:
If you want a real case of someone obtaining ownership of intellectual property from a company you can go look for it your self. I'm sure there are plenty of cases for you.

There aren't. It's always 'purchased' with restrictions. I don't live in Somalia and I'm assuming neither do you.

Magmarock:
MY argument is based on principles where as your argument is based on legal technicality regarding copy rights.

Read my posts. Try again. It is 100% principle which you ignored. The gaming industry would be wrecked by your belief system. I believe in protecting the producers, the developer, the programmers, the writers, the artists. The people you would throw under a bus competing against your imagined legal theft system.

Magmarock:
A legal system that is hasn't been updated since the 70s hence why there are so many problems with it such who owns the rights to what and of course this stupid argument.

Just like every argument you've made in this thread, yeah; proceed.

Magmarock:
I can not and will not respect copy right law until it's changed to meet with the times.

Now please don't bother me about this again.

Oh hey at least now you're not going on about the 'rights' that you don't have. At least now I know the next argument you have on this subject you will know that you're outright lying in the back of your head. I mean it won't stop you from lying anyways. But that kind of weakness does wonders to hurt self esteem, assuming of course that you aren't a sociopath, and actually feed bad about lying. Maybe that isn't too likely considering the proclivity by which you do it and how you ignorantly keep blundering forward with the same lies even when caught making them.

Here in Australia you can't actually sign away your consumer rights, so no mattewrwhat the end user license agreement says, if a company violates those rights you can still take them to court and you can look this up if you don't believe me. Now leave me alone.

Usually the precedent is that you can't sign away your rights unless a law explicitly says you can.

This is true for most of the commonwealth.

Magmarock:

Here in Australia you can't actually sign away your consumer rights, so no mattewrwhat the end user license agreement says, if a company violates those rights you can still take them to court and you can look this up if you don't believe me.

You can't sign away rights in America either. Fortunately the 'right' you keep saying you have is not actually a right at all; has never been one and never will be one. So no matter what the EULA says, you are still wrong.

Magmarock:
Now leave me alone.

I'm trying to have a discussion, you're trying to have the last word. Leave yourself alone, and stop acting like a child.

Genocidicles:

If Steam ever goes down you lose all the games you had on the service. GOG games can be copied, so if GOG ever goes down then all the games on my hard drive aren't going to disappear.

I won't be able to download them from their website any more, but if I'm clever and make a copy of every game I download from there then that'll never be an issue.

Which works fine for most GOG games, as they are small in size. But is a difficult thing to apply to larger games. AAA stuff coming out these days is often 20-40 GB in size. So you would have to have a gigantic install file saved, plus the game size, you would be looking at around 60 GB for every game you have installed and 30 GB for uninstalled. The ability to download whenever you want is crucial for people who don't want to buy massive amounts of storage, burn their own game installer CDs for storage or purchase only physical copies instead of using digital distribution.

Evil Smurf:
GOG has no DRM, so what are you talking about?

Why do people keep trying to say GOG is DRM free when that is totally untrue. DRM stands for Digital Rights Management and it's what you agree to when using ANYTHING Digital. DRM is actually the TOS/TOA you click "I Agree" to when installing/logging into ANYTHING digital product. You have to click "I Agree" to install/play anything from GOG, which is the DRM. Therefore GOG is not DRM free, it absolutely has DRM.

Anything that is DRM free means there is nothing to Click "I Agree" to upon installing/launching/playing. In other words using a anything digital without any agreement.

I just wanted to clear that up.

I even had to type "I AGREE" before i could even post this reply which is also DRM.

Is it free?
No.

Then it's not competition for piracy.

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