PS4 Controller Aims to Be "Ideal" For FPS Games

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Dr.Susse:
Want to play Skyrim 2? Dualshock Rpg is what you'll need...

Skyrim 2? I think you misunderstand the Elder Scrolls series...

OT: Ugh...

How goddamn hard can it possibly be to support KB+M on consoles? Who the hell has never owned a keyboard and a mouse? And for those who haven't, it's still less expensive than a controller! Multiplatform FPSs should already support it if they also release on PC (the work's already done). It would then be very easy to require the few console-exclusive FPS developers to implement KB+M support.

No need to support any of the fancier "gamer" peripherals' features, just basic USB-HID compliance.

It's the only reason I still yearn for, and have never played, Red Dead Redemption, even though I own a PS3.

Capitano Segnaposto:

Ew, Digital Keyboard? Mechanical is the way to go dude. Not to mention the R.A.T. 7 is like the greatest gaming mouse ever made. /partialsarcasm

I just took that picture because it was the better looking keyboard+mouse combo about the size I wanted, cause I was lazy and didn't want to look what are the re-size parameter on the escapist. =p

If I had been willing to spend more time, I would have choosen a cool looking custom WASD keyboard, along a Razer Ouroboros (with LED off, prefering it to a RAT has I find ambidextrous, or only very slightly right handed ergonomic model -like logitech MX51x series- mouse more comfortable to hold)

They can't be serious.
I mean they want to optimize their controller for shooters and yet they still have lousy small lower triggers that are straight in shape and therefore will tilt just like the old crappy ones of the PS3 as well as they haven't grasp the need to exchanged the location of the mostly pointless D-pad with the very important left stick.

Yea Sony I so believe you... NOT. If you want to see how the damn best gamepad for shooter looks like have a a look at the XBox 360 or probably XO for that matter.

I don't want to burst your bubble Mark, but mouse & keyboard are the ideal peripherals for playing First Person Shooters.

These type of news regarding what thing will work for which genre should stop, it will only lead to a flame war, just saying.

The console gamers who play FPS's will probably have to tell me I'm wrong with my first phrase there so...

*activates flame shield*

I can get past the thumb sticks part (what with the placement of a D-pad where a thumb stick is better suited), but what I need are better triggers. DS3 triggers are just so imprecise! It makes it nigh impossible to run any decent laps in a racing game because I'm forced to use TCS and ABS because of how the triggers push in. If they manage to get that right, then I won't end up just hoping some 3rd party company just makes PS4 compatible controllers that are simply just the X360's controller reworked for the PS4.

Good, if this works they don't need aimbots and cross-platform has actually a chance of happening. Or they could just say "we support KB+M, plug them in" as already mentioned earlier.

Ok, would someone be so kind as to explain to me this misconception that you are fundamentally required to use auto aim/aim assist if you are using a controller in FPS?

As the old adage goes...

It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools

On topic:

So this strive to be "ideal" for FPS would be behind the switch from analog to digital buttons that unless I have been really reading things wrong eliminate things like button pressure and velocity and reduce button presses to ON/OFF

iniudan:
PC gaming master race reporting for duty, sir !

-cut-

Razer mouse? Master race? You're funny. I like you.

JenSeven:
Ah crap.
I seriously don't like FPS games. Atleast the military shooter variety.
And since I like playing the few FPS games that I do like (Borderlands, Bioshock, Half Life and Fallout) on the PC this will mean that controller has absolutely no benefit for me.
Sorry Sony, but could you also release a controller optimized for games that aren't an FPS?

It's not really about being an FPS controller. It's about making a controller with better control. R2/L2 are no longer marshmallows, the analog sticks have improved deadzones and a form more capable of keeping your thumbs in place. I've heard the face buttons are a little closer together, too.

It's just that they wouldn't have thought this necessary if FPSs hadn't been as popular as they have been.

[Quote]we kind of wish that Sony would develop controllers attuned to all the major genres. Imagine how neat it would be to have an official controllers fine tuned to the needs of RPGs or strategy games?[/quote]

Well, it is true that FPS games require some more precise input, but as far as other genres go, there really isn't much you can do to improve a controller, mostly because games within other genres vary widely with their control schemes. Also, since the greatest RPGs can always be played with one hand on the controller, there really isn't a need for purpose-built controllers. The other fast-response/precise-input genre is the fighting game, which already has arcade sticks.

So long as it's still reasonably similar to the old ones. I like the PS controllers. Haven't had one I've actively disliked.

abdul:
Just what would a controller for RPG for example look like that's sooo different from a controller that's good for FPS? I seriously don't get this complaint.For strategy games you're probably better off ditching controller altogether and just switch to kb and mouse.For i dunno driving games,again,nothing short of making the controller look like a driving wheel's gonna offer marginally better controls.

I must disagree about strategy games. Back when I use to have only 1 console (PSX) I played an old strategy game called Command and Conquer (as well as the other games released on the system) and frankly the controls worked perfectly. One button to bring up the sidebar then just cycle through the options, and the D-Pad for the pointer (before duelshock existed). I found it slow initially until I looked in the options, found the sensitivity and just increased it. Sometimes I think people give up too soon and just bitch rather than attempt to adjust the settings to their liking.

Ishigami:
They can't be serious.
I mean they want to optimize their controller for shooters and yet they still have lousy small lower triggers that are straight in shape and therefore will tilt just like the old crappy ones of the PS3 as well as they haven't grasp the need to exchanged the location of the mostly pointless D-pad with the very important left stick.

Yea Sony I so believe you... NOT. If you want to see how the damn best gamepad for shooter looks like have a a look at the XBox 360 or probably XO for that matter.

I prefer the Playsation way of having the stick and dpad, xbox feels misaligned and unatural. Guess I just prefer summitry in my controls. Xbox controller isn't the best for everyone, from what I can tell it works well for those with larger hands but otherwise the difference is subjective.
If it's such a big issue just buy a controller with that setup and use it on the PS3/4, they support any USB controller so you can just use a 3rd party custom one.

DarkhoIlow:
I don't want to burst your bubble Mark, but mouse & keyboard are the ideal peripherals for playing First Person Shooters.

These type of news regarding what thing will work for which genre should stop, it will only lead to a flame war, just saying.
The console gamers who play FPS's will probably have to tell me I'm wrong with my first phrase there so...
*activates flame shield*

Typical PC users prying into console commentary.

Cerny never mentioned PC or keyboards, or even another console for that matter, so you're the one starting the flame debate.

What's wrong, ya feel left out?

Daaaah Whoosh:
First of all, I always turn off aim assist if I can.

Regardless of whether you turn it off or not, on consoles there is always some level of aim assist running. Turning it on/off is simply changing it between two different levels of assist.

I don't exactly understand your comment about the speed of games, I often find most shooters to be too fast-paced, which makes it very difficult to work tactically. I prefer a game where the skilled player can dodge shots just as well as taking them, which I would imagine only works if the enemy has trouble aiming.

Play Tribes Ascend on the PC.
Play Quake 3 on the PC.
Tell me that modern games are fast paced.
They aren't. They're about moving relatively slowly, and having quick reflexes. That's not fast paced. In Tribes you can go over 130km/h from memory, skiing down hills to dodge bullets. Even with a mouse it becomes hard to hit enemies with hitscan weapons because by the time you've aimed, they're gone, and they're hard to lead with your aim because they keep changing directions.
The slightly slower speed of bullets helps here too. Not Halo Rocket Launcher slow, but slow to the extent that you can actually see them travelling.
And no, you don't need to have trouble aiming for the enemy to be able to dodge. Try hitting a jet flying 20m up and travelling at max speed with a rifle in BF3. It can be done. Its bloody hard though.

The main thing that makes most shooters hard to be tactical in is that they're highly twitch based, with maps designed to funnel players into one area so the fastest reaction person will shoot first and win. Its nothing to do with how quickly people die, how hard it is to aim, or how fast people move. Its all to do with how the levels are designed.

I wouldn't say that there is a loss of precision aiming on consoles, just that it takes longer to line up the right shot.

Uhh... That is a lack of precision?
It takes longer 'cause there isn't precision. You can't precisely say "I want my camera to move this much, at this speed, and aim at this point". You have to work with the less precise capabilities of the thumbsticks, which causes you to take longer to aim.

Pointing and clicking to me feels unrealistic, whereas moving around dual joysticks reminds me of using two hands to reposition a rifle; one for the back, i.e. moving, and one for the front, for aiming.

Uhh. Ok. I don't find either remotely realistic - one is moving around a solid plastic object to aim whilst hitting buttons to move, and the other is moving around a solid plastic stick to aim and a solid plastic stick to move. The Wii controller would probably be the closest to realistic any home consoles have come for aiming.

I agree that bullets are better when they are not hitscan, but I think that the added difficulty of aiming with a controller makes the process of shooting just difficult enough to give targets the ability to survive an attack by an undisciplined enemy, and return fire with an accuracy equivalent to the amount of time they have to aim.

Umm... What?
An unskilled player on either platform is going to lose to a skilled player. It isn't piss easy to aim with a mouse either, and a lot of people miss at ranges of even 5 meters away.
The PC gives you the advantage in responding to surprise attacks though. If you're not killed instantly, you can quickly spin, aim, and shoot. With a console, you can spin, spend time aiming whilst the enemy fixes their aim/reloads, then shoot as they resume firing. So long as they're not pants on head retarded, you've lost the fight if you're taken by surprise.

Mr.Tea:

Dr.Susse:
Want to play Skyrim 2? Dualshock Rpg is what you'll need...

Skyrim 2? I think you misunderstand the Elder Scrolls series...

Not at all I was just making up generic sounding popular games.
I'm all down with the Morrowind and Oblivion.

So SOny is put to an impossible task, make a machine that is inherently inferior, superior. i guess somone just divided by 0. You cant go better than Mouse for FPS save for virtual reality and no amount of controler tweaking is ever going to help that.

Teoes:

It's early days, but I'm quite surprised no-one's leapt in yet to defend controller-based input on FPS games and decry all the PC gaming master racers and their "KB&M lol" posts[1] thusfar. I saw the headline and predicted a shitstorm. :(

Defend controlle based imput for FPS? well i guess some hipsters like inferiority.

[1] Although that's not to say I have anything against such arguments!

RicoADF:
I prefer the Playsation way of having the stick and dpad, xbox feels misaligned and unatural. Guess I just prefer summitry in my controls. Xbox controller isn't the best for everyone, from what I can tell it works well for those with larger hands but otherwise the difference is subjective.
If it's such a big issue just buy a controller with that setup and use it on the PS3/4, they support any USB controller so you can just use a 3rd party custom one.

You are missing the fucking point.
They lie when they say the optimized the controller for shooters.
Shooters are big thing in the USA and they desperately try improve their appeal in the region that was ruled by the XBox 360 in the previous generation. This therefore is PR bullshit.

They still put emphasis on the upper triggers by sizing them similar to the lower ones.
The lower ones are still small and will tilt like the old ones due to their straight shape.
This is not optimized for shooters. In the recent shooters the upper triggers were never in any way similarly important as the lower ones.
The most successful shooter console was the XBox 360 and what do we see there? Bigger lower triggers that are concave shaped similar to actual gun triggers. They feel natural and secure when pulled unlike the switch like behaviour from the PS3 where you always felt like slipping from them and you bet your ass you can expect the same from the PS4 as I just pointed out.
Not to mention that IMO in the upper trigger are generally used for auxiliary functions and having kept their size similar did not improve this for any genre on the PS thus far so no reason to stick with it.

They changed the surface of the sticks to be concave and made changes to the dead zone and try to sell this as some major improvement when it is just a minor change. I don't want to negate their changes. It was about fucking time Sony realizes that it increases stability to shape the sticks concave therefore increases the touching surface between thumb and stick.
However they are still in denial to accept that most, if not all, games need the left stick more than the d-pad.
If you just hold your DS casually then you will notice that your thumbs will rest on the d-pad and the 4 action buttons. This is where the emphasis lies and it is just wrong in this day and age.
The symmetry might be nicer for left handed people but that is not an argument for it being optimized for shooter.
Not to mention that the asymmetrical placement gives more freedom all around the sticks.
How did they come up with this design anyway? - Oh right Sony saw the need to react to the sticks of the N64 and just tagged them to their already existing controller.... and people really think that they had an ergonomic point of view? - It was a fast, easy and cheap solution to a competitor that at the time as well didn't quite predicted how important the sticks would turn out. Guess what? Nintendo was clever enough to rectify this in their next console, Sony was not. I think you are just fucking used to it because you probably have been using this design for 15 years, that is all.

And you don't have to give me tips. I old enough to get this stuff by myself thank you.

So... it'll have a mouse and keyboard then?

Ishigami:

You are missing the fucking point.
They lie when they say the optimized the controller for shooters.
Shooters are big thing in the USA and they desperately try improve their appeal in the region that was ruled by the XBox 360 in the previous generation. This therefore is PR bullshit.

They still put emphasis on the upper triggers by sizing them similar to the lower ones.
The lower ones are still small and will tilt like the old ones due to their straight shape.
This is not optimized for shooters. In the recent shooters the upper triggers were never in any way similarly important as the lower ones.
The most successful shooter console was the XBox 360 and what do we see there? Bigger lower triggers that are concave shaped similar to actual gun triggers. They feel natural and secure when pulled unlike the switch like behaviour from the PS3 where you always felt like slipping from them and you bet your ass you can expect the same from the PS4 as I just pointed out.
Not to mention that IMO in the upper trigger are generally used for auxiliary functions and having kept their size similar did not improve this for any genre on the PS thus far so no reason to stick with it.

They changed the surface of the sticks to be concave and made changes to the dead zone and try to sell this as some major improvement when it is just a minor change. I don't want to negate their changes. It was about fucking time Sony realizes that it increases stability to shape the sticks concave therefore increases the touching surface between thumb and stick.
However they are still in denial to accept that most, if not all, games need the left stick more than the d-pad.
If you just hold your DS casually then you will notice that your thumbs will rest on the d-pad and the 4 action buttons. This is where the emphasis lies and it is just wrong in this day and age.
The symmetry might be nicer for left handed people but that is not an argument for it being optimized for shooter.
Not to mention that the asymmetrical placement gives more freedom all around the sticks.
How did they come up with this design anyway? - Oh right Sony saw the need to react to the sticks of the N64 and just tagged them to their already existing controller.... and people really think that they had an ergonomic point of view? - It was a fast, easy and cheap solution to a competitor that at the time as well didn't quite predicted how important the sticks would turn out. Guess what? Nintendo was clever enough to rectify this in their next console, Sony was not. I think you are just fucking used to it because you probably have been using this design for 15 years, that is all.

And you don't have to give me tips. I old enough to get this stuff by myself thank you.

First off chill down it's just a controller, seriously get over it. You just wasted paragraphs of text saying how you don't think it's good for FPS (in your opinion) to respond to me saying I prefer to Playstation controller (which is my opinion), at no point did I say it was specifically for FPS or what. For your information I prefer the playstation controller in general, and don't believe FPS need a special one for themselves. So yeah it's not 'specalised' for FPS, but I play more than just FPS games on the system so thats a good thing and the controller feels better when I use it compared to my xbox controller (I'm actually trying to find a 3rd party controller that's like the PS one that works on the xbox). I also don't care how they were made or what other reason you hate it, the controller is the most comfortable for me to use and that's all that matters to ME.

Come on guys, we all know it's a bit of superficial bullshit. It's not like they have longer analogue sticks or something for more precise aiming, or R2 & L2 triggers that curve outwards. A controller is a controller.

Good on Sony.

Still it's a shame this nice thread had to become polluted with PC master race this and PC master race that even when the thread didn't mention anything about K+M, good job starting your own flame war PC people who can't let console people live with their controllers because you want them to use what you use.

I grew up with a mixture of K+M and all sorts of controllers and I can safely say the controller is the better peripheral for me since it fits comfortably in my hand, doesn't cause my right hand to strain like it does with a mouse and I can lay on my bed and play games with the gamepad whether it be on PC or console.

I just don't think K+M is the best aiming device for me and others here who much prefer Gamepads and that does not make them wrong because if it does why are they still using them?, why are the new consoles coming out?, why has K+M not become law?, why? because opinions that's why.

To anyone else who uses only K+M and wants to tell me how my opinion is wrong based on my own choice, kindly cram it up your ass.

This is a console thread about a gamepad device not a K+M so lets not devolve it into only K+M talk because that gets no one on here nowhere.

Mmm would be interresting to actually see keyboard and mouse support on the PS4. As in that some games would support it.. it would certainly allow for quicker and easier equiping weapons, spells, etc.

But PS4 games would have to support it! And it would make Strategy Games available, don't get me wrong yes how about civilisation. I mean strategy games like the Command and Conquer series, sorry to say but the controller is a HORRIBLE input in those games.

And games like "the sims" are simply truly worthless to play on a controller. You need the mouse!

Phrozenflame500:

StewShearer:
PS4 Controller Aims to Be "Ideal" For FPS Games

Oh, so the PS4 will be Keyboard+Mouse based then.

ha! first thing i thought of when i came to post

And how did I guess that the pc crowd would turn up with there very original comments of "keyboard and mouse" ... couldn't see that one coming a mile off. Get over yourselves.

Meh, I'm still sticking to my guns and saying the touch pad and the share button should be left off the controller but everything else looks and sounds good to me.

It's not really surprising that they aimed it at FPS games 'cos they are the biggest sellers in terms of genres.

Phrozenflame500:

StewShearer:
PS4 Controller Aims to Be "Ideal" For FPS Games

Oh, so the PS4 will be Keyboard+Mouse based then.

Well, I'm glad that's the first comment that made it in. Everyone was thinking it.

iniudan:
PC gaming master race reporting for duty, sir !

image

This is my rifle. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. Before God I swear this creed: my rifle and myself are defenders of my country, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace. Amen.

Keyboard? How quaint. Keyboards are so last decade for FPS's and RPG's. You want one of these to go with your mouse.

image

Thumb stick for analogue movement / map scrolling and fully customizable and macro-able buttons just under your fingers.

ph0b0s123:

Thumb stick for analogue movement / map scrolling and fully customizable and macro-able buttons just under your fingers.

Not enough keys and it is badly set up, has it is easier for finger to do up and down movement then it is to do lateral movement, thus G7 and G14 should be eliminated, has finger shouldn't do more then 1 column away from home position, there should have more 2-3 more row of key above on a lorenz curve, should add a key to the right of G22 for the index, 3 more key on the bottom left for the pinky, on bottom right should have a new row for key for the thumb, has the G20 row would now be used the other fingers.

iniudan:

ph0b0s123:

Thumb stick for analogue movement / map scrolling and fully customizable and macro-able buttons just under your fingers.

Not enough keys and it is badly set up, has it is easier for finger to do up and down movement then it is to do lateral movement, thus G7 and G14 should be eliminated, has finger shouldn't do more then 1 column away from home position, there should have more 2-3 more row of key above on a lorenz curve, should add a key to the right of G22 for the index, 3 more key on the bottom left for the pinky, on bottom right should have a new row for key for the thumb, has the G20 row would now be used the other fingers.

Think you have missed the point of this setup. The thumb does not need keys as it is most of the time on the thumbstick controlling up , down, left, right. The thumb is what 'homes' the rest of the hand, so the fingers can wonder you all the keys above. Also with thumb doing what used to take 3 fingers to do, it releases them for other tasks. But if this is too new an idea for you, stick with the old and clunky digital on / off movement of the keyboard setup and it's need t use more of your fingers for what can be done with just one elsewhere. You are just using a sub optimal control method, the same as joypad users are vs keyboard and mouse....

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