Wii U Still Selling Below Cost

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Wii U Still Selling Below Cost

Iwata really wants to return to Nintendo-like profits.

"In this first half of the term before the launch of the Wii U, we were not able to make a profit on software for the system while we had to book a loss on the hardware," said Satoru Iwata way back in 2012, "which is currently in production and will be sold below cost." Trouble is, the Wii U really hasn't sold that well since Iwata made that statement, which means that if you were hoping for a price drop as the other new consoles come on the market, forget it. Nintendo's still selling its next generation console at a loss, and while Satoru Iwata would dearly love to return to "'Nintendo-like' profits" in the coming fiscal year, price drops aren't on Nintendo's agenda.

Back when Iwata first announced that the Wii U would sell at a loss, Reggie Fils-Amie was confident that this hardware sales loss was a temporary problem. "In the end, the business model is still to drive the install base of hardware, and then to drive a strong tie ratio with all of the other software and experiences for the consumer," said he. Except that didn't happen. Software sales and experiences have become the Wii U's biggest problem, one it's struggling to avoid even now, what with its most interesting launch title proving so unprofitable that a sequel's off the table, and big publishers refusing to develop for the console unless it moves more units. Activision's recent promise to do everything it can to support the Wii U is a boost, and there may be more good news on the way yet.

But if you were thinking that a price drop was the way to go, it's not happening. Not while the console still can't recoup its costs.

Source: Gamesindustry.biz

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Well damn, I would love to have a price drop on the thing. I'm still getting a Wii U probably this month or next, but a price drop on the Deluxe would've be nice, or an even better thing would be to allow the games to be region free. :D
...a man can dream of a region free Nintendo can't he?

Well I would love to get the price on the Deluxe lowered. Even if that happened in America, no way it would happen in Iceland, so either way I'm boned and I'm still forced to pay more for the price of games and consoles then other countries, go figure.

For those who are interested, lets go check out the price of a Wii U Deluxe Edition at...lets say Gamestop...350 Dollars. Not bad, not bad. Well I don't exactly know if that is bad or not considering I'm living in Iceland with different currency and such. But lets check out the price of a Wii U at one of the stores in Iceland. It costs...78 Thousand ISK and if we converted that to the dollar, then that would be 662 dollars.

So yeah. The cost of Wii U is almost double for me here then it is for people in the States. Goddamit I love hate being a gamer in Iceland. Not even going to mention the cost of the games. But hey, you take what you get and just keep on loving Nintendo Games.

I just want to point out, that the Article is written horribly, and it's filled with inconsistencies.

Regardless, I knew it wasn't really going to get a price cut any time soon.

Morsomk:
Well I would love to get the price on the Deluxe lowered. Even if that happened in America, no way it would happen in Iceland, so either way I'm boned and I'm still forced to pay more for the price of games and consoles then other countries, go figure.

For those who are interested, lets go check out the price of a Wii U Deluxe Edition at...lets say Gamestop...350 Dollars. Not bad, not bad. Well I don't exactly know if that is bad or not considering I'm living in Iceland with different currency and such. But lets check out the price of a Wii U at one of the stores in Iceland. It costs...78 Thousand ISK and if we converted that to the dollar, then that would be 662 dollars.

So yeah. The cost of Wii U is almost double for me here then it is for people in the States. Goddamit I love hate being a gamer in Iceland. Not even going to mention the cost of the games. But hey, you take what you get and just keep on loving Nintendo Games.

In the UK we seem to be knocking up towards $400 give or take for a Wii-U but that's a bit nuts. I wonder if I'll ever buy another console..

Teoes:

In the UK we seem to be knocking up towards $400 give or take for a Wii-U but that's a bit nuts. I wonder if I'll ever buy another console..

It's kinda interesting being a gamer in Iceland, most of the flock decide to only buy second hand copies of games because its way cheaper. I'm not that sort of fella cause I like to buy brand spanking new games and keeping them. So I've gotten into this mindset that I have to be careful into my buying decisions, meaning I don't buy every game that the masses scream out that it's a "Masterpiece".

I'm also boycotting the stores that sell videogames in Iceland cause its only one company that buys the games in huge quantities, meaning that it's basically a Monopoly for games here. That's why they've jacked the prices to such a ridiculous standards.

So yeah, being a gamer in Iceland is quite interesting on the account that it's not as mainstream as its in the states. Also did I forget to mention that we don't get online support for consoles? And sometimes on the PC aswell?

It's not like we as gamers are helping out either.
When every single article talks about how the WiiU is garbage, or devs lie out of their ass about hardware capabilities- It leaves a rotten image of the WiiU that so far it hasn't been able to shake off.

Of course when looking at the boom of the 3DS I am confident that they can turn things around, and shove that negativity right back at the third party devs who doubted them.

Neronium:
Well damn, I would love to have a price drop on the thing. I'm still getting a Wii U probably this month or next, but a price drop on the Deluxe would've be nice, or an even better thing would be to allow the games to be region free. :D
...a man can dream of a region free Nintendo can't he?

There are ways to make that dream a reality my friend.

Wait, the console is selling at a loss? That tablet controller must cost a lot.

@Dragonbums,

Yeah, the devs are lying... wait, what? Are you saying that you are personally more familiar with the capabilities of the system than developers are? What benefit do developers have in lying? If they don't want to develop games for the console because not enough people have purchased it then they can simply say that. What's the motivation here?

Saying that they can't do a price drop because they are selling at a loss is faulty logic. Nintendo does have a significant amount of cash reserve, and has very little debt. It would not be impossible for them to tap into that to create a price drop. The issue is that a price drop is pointless unless there is games to sell the system. They'd be better off using their money ramping up staff to make more games in a shorter period. Which happens to be one of the things they're doing. Once games are out a holiday price drop would be practical.

Dragonbums:
It's not like we as gamers are helping out either.
When every single article talks about how the WiiU is garbage, or devs lie out of their ass about hardware capabilities- It leaves a rotten image of the WiiU that so far it hasn't been able to shake off.

Of course when looking at the boom of the 3DS I am confident that they can turn things around, and shove that negativity right back at the third party devs who doubted them.

Hate to sound like a fanboy here, but why exactly should we be "helping out"?

If they aren't putting out games that people want, then people aren't going to buy the console. Nintendo spent most of their efforts last generation courting the casual market, which is fine, but it appears to have shot them in the foot as they aren't a demographic that's gonna rush out & buy the new console on release; after all, they already have Wii Bowling, so why would they? Teh Hardcore market, on the other hand, became disinterested in Nintendo games a long time ago. Props for their prior successes, but it appears that was a short-sighted business model.

We're constantly reminded by publishers that they are in fact a business above all else. Well, the consumer doesn't want your products; that's business

Dragonbums:
It's not like we as gamers are helping out either.
When every single article talks about how the WiiU is garbage, or devs lie out of their ass about hardware capabilities- It leaves a rotten image of the WiiU that so far it hasn't been able to shake off.

Welcome to the PS3's launch circa 2006. As for Devs lying I wouldn't say something like that unless you actually have been making games for the system, because while some devs don't know how to work within certain limitations, saying they are outright lying isn't always the case. Take Bethesda for example, in their case all console versions of their games aren't the best and developing for say the Wii U in there case would be like them developing for the PS3 again, and we all know how well that worked out. (I'm mainly talking about RAM limitations in this case, which RAM limitations have always held back PC game ports and developers)

MorphingDragon:

Neronium:
Well damn, I would love to have a price drop on the thing. I'm still getting a Wii U probably this month or next, but a price drop on the Deluxe would've be nice, or an even better thing would be to allow the games to be region free. :D
...a man can dream of a region free Nintendo can't he?

There are ways to make that dream a reality my friend.

There is!? :D
Do I just have to believe hard enough, because I've been trying that with Megaman Legends 3 and things seem to not be getting better for that. T^T

No price drop and games?

No Wii U for me.

Whaaaaaaaaat?! The bulky gimmicky monstrosity with a difficult to hold controller that dies every two hours isn't selling well and the system is having problem with third party support?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!![/sarcasm]

medv4380:
Saying that they can't do a price drop because they are selling at a loss is faulty logic. Nintendo does have a significant amount of cash reserve, and has very little debt. It would not be impossible for them to tap into that to create a price drop.

I don't think anybody said they can't. Nintendo is saying here that they hope to return to a profit on the console itself regardless of software sales, as was the case with every Nintendo console before that, and they can't make a profit on strictly hardware if they implement a price drop.

That said, I have no clue why they aren't taking advantage of their huge library of potential Virtual Console games. Seriously, those cost next to nothing to put up on the eShop; they're basically pure profit. If they're not making their money back in game sales because of a small library, that's a good way to quickly and significantly boost the library's size.

P.S. Thanks

Lightknight:
Wait, the console is selling at a loss? That tablet controller must cost a lot.

@Dragonbums,

Yeah, the devs are lying... wait, what? Are you saying that you are personally more familiar with the capabilities of the system than developers are? What benefit do developers have in lying? If they don't want to develop games for the console because not enough people have purchased it then they can simply say that. What's the motivation here?

No, but EA hasn't exactly been honest when they slammed the console on Twitter. Especially when people have showed them saying the exact opposite when it just released.
All the other developers either haven't bothered trying or just didn't care.
It's confusing when Crytek says the WiiU can handle their engine yet have a bunch of other devs call it weak.

EDIT: I guess I should of thought twice about saying they "lied" that was a bit of a jump. Pardon me.

Neronium:

Dragonbums:
It's not like we as gamers are helping out either.
When every single article talks about how the WiiU is garbage, or devs lie out of their ass about hardware capabilities- It leaves a rotten image of the WiiU that so far it hasn't been able to shake off.

As for Devs lying I wouldn't say something like that unless you actually have been making games for the system, because while some devs don't know how to work within certain limitations, saying they are outright lying isn't always the case. Take Bethesda for example, in their case all console versions of their games aren't the best and developing for say the Wii U in there case would be like them developing for the PS3 again, and we all know how well that worked out. (I'm mainly talking about RAM limitations in this case, which RAM limitations have always held back PC game ports and developers)

I guess I should've taken more care for what I typed. I was thinking along the lines of the EA incident where they trashed the Wii U on Twitter and promptly got called out on it. Of course that didn't stop anyone from furthering the whole rumor of crap hardware (then again I don't know why people would listen to anything EA says, but whatever.)

Dragonbums:

Neronium:

Dragonbums:
It's not like we as gamers are helping out either.
When every single article talks about how the WiiU is garbage, or devs lie out of their ass about hardware capabilities- It leaves a rotten image of the WiiU that so far it hasn't been able to shake off.

As for Devs lying I wouldn't say something like that unless you actually have been making games for the system, because while some devs don't know how to work within certain limitations, saying they are outright lying isn't always the case. Take Bethesda for example, in their case all console versions of their games aren't the best and developing for say the Wii U in there case would be like them developing for the PS3 again, and we all know how well that worked out. (I'm mainly talking about RAM limitations in this case, which RAM limitations have always held back PC game ports and developers)

I guess I should've taken more care for what I typed. I was thinking along the lines of the EA incident where they trashed the Wii U on Twitter and promptly got called out on it. Of course that didn't stop anyone from furthering the whole rumor of crap hardware (then again I don't know why people would listen to anything EA says, but whatever.)

Yeah I was figuring it was a miswording on your part, but with EA if I were you I'd take anything they'd say with a grain of salt because they aren't really the most trustworthy if you ask me. As for other companies I'd be more angry with UbiSoft and this whole Rayman Legends thing to be honest. >.>

Neronium:

Dragonbums:

Neronium:

As for Devs lying I wouldn't say something like that unless you actually have been making games for the system, because while some devs don't know how to work within certain limitations, saying they are outright lying isn't always the case. Take Bethesda for example, in their case all console versions of their games aren't the best and developing for say the Wii U in there case would be like them developing for the PS3 again, and we all know how well that worked out. (I'm mainly talking about RAM limitations in this case, which RAM limitations have always held back PC game ports and developers)

I guess I should've taken more care for what I typed. I was thinking along the lines of the EA incident where they trashed the Wii U on Twitter and promptly got called out on it. Of course that didn't stop anyone from furthering the whole rumor of crap hardware (then again I don't know why people would listen to anything EA says, but whatever.)

Yeah I was figuring it was a miswording on your part, but with EA if I were you I'd take anything they'd say with a grain of salt because they aren't really the most trustworthy if you ask me. As for other companies I'd be more angry with UbiSoft and this whole Rayman Legends thing to be honest. >.>

I know a mom who's little girl bought a WiiU specifically so she could play Rayman Legends on it's original launch date and it continued to get delayed.
Granted the girl was like five, but the woman told me that she continuously played the demo version over and over again on her WiiU. Also Ubisoft fans at the conference are done with Rayman. They all have stated one way or another that the game should of been released at original launch price so they can have their conference talk about something else.

Dragonbums:
It's not like we as gamers are helping out either.
When every single article talks about how the WiiU is garbage, or devs lie out of their ass about hardware capabilities- It leaves a rotten image of the WiiU that so far it hasn't been able to shake off.

It's everybody's fault, but Nintendo's, right?

Maybe Nintendo simply overplayed their hand with another hardware skewing console that didn't take off like a rocket among mainstream audiences this time?

It's Nintendo's job to make the Wii-U worth our money, and they're not doing a very good one.

And hey, remember when everybody was hating just as much on the Wii, but Nintendo was laughing all the way to the bank, because soccer moms and grannies were buying it? I guess their console was impervious to gamer hate back then.

Dragonbums:
No, but EA hasn't exactly been honest when they slammed the console on Twitter. Especially when people have showed them saying the exact opposite when it just released.
All the other developers either haven't bothered trying or just didn't care.
It's confusing when Crytek says the WiiU can handle their engine yet have a bunch of other devs call it weak.

EDIT: I guess I should of thought twice about saying they "lied" that was a bit of a jump. Pardon me.

Wow, I really respect that you just re-evaluated the wording you used. Don't get to see that often on the internet where people have to be 100% right or else.

The thing about handling an engine versus handling a fully fleshed out game is quite a different story. Don't forget, the WiiU IS more powerful than either the 360 or the ps3 and those systems are likewise capable of "handling" Crytek's engine.

But when you start to use that engine to add assets and significant storylines then you may begin to run into a problem. Crytek in particular has learned to create engines that scale from low quality to very high. The thing is, this generally only applies to graphics whereas the physics and AI can't be so easily changed/scaled. The next generation is going to be able to advance AI and Physics a lot but that's going to be a problem for weaker machines that would have been able to function normally if not for those advancements because AI and Physics can be pretty darn resource hungry.

I think trying to argue that the WiiU can compete for cutting edge games is a losing battle. Bethesda in general always tries to push the envelope and is always at that forefront of technology so it doesn't make sense for them to develop for consoles that aren't right there with them. Let's be honest, Nintendo brings good ol' fashioned family fun to the table. It's kid safe and it is a nostalgia powerhouse The WiiU and the games it brings will be and are fun. It's just that the Nintendo brand alone is not able to carry premium priced hardware. It can't even play DVDs which takes away futher justification of it as a media console too.

I bought my Wii for Nintendo games. Come the end of the generation I've only gotten a small handful of Nintendo titles I care about and precious few third party titles that ended up also being made available on the other consoles. I'm simply not thinking that the console is worth buying if I'm not getting a full lineup out of it. Keep in mind, you're talking to a person whose childhood was full-blown Nintendo. I love the company and if even a long-term fan like me has grown tired of a console-tax to by the games then something is off.

Casual Shinji:

Dragonbums:
It's not like we as gamers are helping out either.
When every single article talks about how the WiiU is garbage, or devs lie out of their ass about hardware capabilities- It leaves a rotten image of the WiiU that so far it hasn't been able to shake off.

It's everybody's fault, but Nintendo's, right?

Maybe Nintendo simply overplayed their hand with another hardware skewing console that didn't take off like a rocket among mainstream audiences this time?

It's Nintendo's job to make the Wii-U worth our money, and they're not doing a very good one.

And hey, remember when everybody was hating just as much on the Wii, but Nintendo was laughing all the way to the bank, because soccer moms and grannies were buying it? I guess their console was impervious to gamer hate back then.

Nintendo needs a new marketing strategy. There is no arguing that.

But really, the amount of cynicism that's been going around for the thing lately is ridiculous. Stupid news like Bethesda not making a game for the Wii U- a company that hasn't made a game for Nintendo for more over a decade should not get hundreds of comments(on places like IGN and Gamespot) filled with nothing but people hoping the thing dies into the ground.
Devs complained about bad specs.
They improved it.
Devs complained about using the tablet.
Nintendo said they didn't have to use it.

I've played the system. It's a nice piece of hardware. The only thing it needs now is a solid lineup and it's good to go. However this situation is getting absolutely ridiculous.
I can now understand how PS3 fans must of felt like when the console first came out.

It's the same song and dance with the 3DS. A bunch of devs avoided the system. EA and Ubisoft trashed it in public, the thing took off like hot cakes, and now the same people that shot it down can hardly find room to actually put their game on it lest they want to be buried to obscurity by all the great first party titles coming out on a monthly basis.

Lightknight:

Dragonbums:
No, but EA hasn't exactly been honest when they slammed the console on Twitter. Especially when people have showed them saying the exact opposite when it just released.
All the other developers either haven't bothered trying or just didn't care.
It's confusing when Crytek says the WiiU can handle their engine yet have a bunch of other devs call it weak.

EDIT: I guess I should of thought twice about saying they "lied" that was a bit of a jump. Pardon me.

Wow, I really respect that you just re-evaluated the wording you used. Don't get to see that often on the internet where people have to be 100% right or else.

The thing about handling an engine versus handling a fully fleshed out game is quite a different story. Don't forget, the WiiU IS more powerful than either the 360 or the ps3 and those systems are likewise capable of "handling" Crytek's engine.

But when you start to use that engine to add assets and significant storylines then you may begin to run into a problem. Crytek in particular has learned to create engines that scale from low quality to very high. The thing is, this generally only applies to graphics whereas the physics and AI can't be so easily changed/scaled. The next generation is going to be able to advance AI and Physics a lot but that's going to be a problem for weaker machines that would have been able to function normally if not for those advancements because AI and Physics can be pretty darn resource hungry.

I think trying to argue that the WiiU can compete for cutting edge games is a losing battle. Bethesda in general always tries to push the envelope and is always at that forefront of technology so it doesn't make sense for them to develop for consoles that aren't right there with them. Let's be honest, Nintendo brings good ol' fashioned family fun to the table. It's kid safe and it is a nostalgia powerhouse The WiiU and the games it brings will be and are fun. It's just that the Nintendo brand alone is not able to carry premium priced hardware. It can't even play DVDs which takes away futher justification of it as a media console too.

I bought my Wii for Nintendo games. Come the end of the generation I've only gotten a small handful of Nintendo titles I care about and precious few third party titles that ended up also being made available on the other consoles. I'm simply not thinking that the console is worth buying if I'm not getting a full lineup out of it. Keep in mind, you're talking to a person whose childhood was full-blown Nintendo. I love the company and if even a long-term fan like me has grown tired of a console-tax to by the games then something is off.

Your right. The Wii U is not the console to be pushing the envelope of gaming. I do see it however as a middle ground console.
You can put sweet titles on there, but don't expect your overblown budget game to work fantastic on it.
I guess what's annoying me about the cynicism is that people are highly undervaluing what the console can do. I look at the trailer for X and the thing looked gorgeous on the Wii U. I'm also fairly certain the game can handle past Elder Scrolls titles.
Of course in my opinion, if Bethesda's newest Elder Scrolls games are still buggy as garbage on the console, they should just...stop making console games and stick to PC.
For many other studios that aren't the big players, they can't really go beyond the costs it took to make games on the Xbox360 so it's not like the Wii U is that much of a problem for them.(In my opinion.)

On that note Nintendo still has a good grasp on the children market. Something that Sony used to have with their Crash and Spyro series, but has now long since abandoned.

But you know...marketing. I'm a huge Nintendo fan and I still can't really tell you what the ACTUAL Wii U console looks like.
And the amount of stories I heard from Gamestop employees about the causal crowd buying out all the Wii U's once they realize it WASN'T an extension helps back that up.

Dragonbums:

Lightknight:
Wait, the console is selling at a loss? That tablet controller must cost a lot.

@Dragonbums,

Yeah, the devs are lying... wait, what? Are you saying that you are personally more familiar with the capabilities of the system than developers are? What benefit do developers have in lying? If they don't want to develop games for the console because not enough people have purchased it then they can simply say that. What's the motivation here?

No, but EA hasn't exactly been honest when they slammed the console on Twitter. Especially when people have showed them saying the exact opposite when it just released.
All the other developers either haven't bothered trying or just didn't care.
It's confusing when Crytek says the WiiU can handle their engine yet have a bunch of other devs call it weak.

EDIT: I guess I should of thought twice about saying they "lied" that was a bit of a jump. Pardon me.

Crytek saying the WiiU can handle their engine really isnt that impressive as A, Crytek are pansies now. Their new engine isnt nearly as intensive as the engine for Crysis 1 was. And B, their engine can run on hardware that was released 8 years ago. If the WiiU couldnt even handle that, it would be (more of) a laughing stock.

Dragonbums:
Nintendo needs a new marketing strategy. There is no arguing that.

But really, the amount of cynicism that's been going around for the thing lately is ridiculous. Stupid news like Bethesda not making a game for the Wii U- a company that hasn't made a game for Nintendo for more over a decade should not get hundreds of comments(on places like IGN and Gamespot) filled with nothing but people hoping the thing dies into the ground.
Devs complained about bad specs.
They improved it.
Devs complained about using the tablet.
Nintendo said they didn't have to use it.

I've played the system. It's a nice piece of hardware. The only thing it needs now is a solid lineup and it's good to go. However this situation is getting absolutely ridiculous.
I can now understand how PS3 fans must of felt like when the console first came out.

It's the same song and dance with the 3DS. A bunch of devs avoided the system. EA and Ubisoft trashed it in public, the thing took off like hot cakes, and now the same people that shot it down can hardly find room to actually put their game on it lest they want to be buried to obscurity by all the great first party titles coming out on a monthly basis.

I think the difference is that Nintendo has always dominated the handheld market (disregarding phones and tablets). It makes me look at Sony and shake my head at how they pigheadedly try to push their way in after already failing with the PSP. Anyway, it was much easier for the 3DS to replace the popularity of the DS, because it was a next gen version of an already popular device many people were familiar with.

The Wii-U however falls in a very awkward middle position where it's not current gen, but it's not quite next gen either compared to what Sony and Microsoft will bring to the table. So the console is there and I'm sure it's fine, but nobody really seems to know what to do with it. It also lacks the universal appeal of the remote to hook in the mainstream this time.

So unless Nintendo or some other third party developer releases a game that can utilize the system in such a way that it will instantly make sense and click for the general audience, I don't see this confusion getting cleared up anytime soon.

WiiU... I guess people got their fill of gimmicky crap and family friendly overload with the Wii.

Dragonbums:

It's the same song and dance with the 3DS. A bunch of devs avoided the system. EA and Ubisoft trashed it in public, the thing took off like hot cakes, and now the same people that shot it down can hardly find room to actually put their game on it lest they want to be buried to obscurity by all the great first party titles coming out on a monthly basis.

Well, that's ultimately the thing that baffles me about the 3DS: 3rd parties who trashed it...STILL haven't come back. EA and Ubisoft haven't made one title for it in years despite the huge user base and the fact that it wouldn't cost much to make a game for it. Instead they keep doing their flawed business models of only making AAA games with budgets that are only increasing and thus making their profit margins thinner and thinner. These kind of bad business decisions are why I don't have sympathies for 3rd parties. It's hard to feel sorry for them when most of their troubles are due to THEIR mistakes, mistakes that they could rectify with ease but choose NOT to. I'm not going to feel sorry for idiots, I'm just going to feel sorry for Nintendo having to deal with them.

Desert Punk:

Dragonbums:

Lightknight:
Wait, the console is selling at a loss? That tablet controller must cost a lot.

@Dragonbums,

Yeah, the devs are lying... wait, what? Are you saying that you are personally more familiar with the capabilities of the system than developers are? What benefit do developers have in lying? If they don't want to develop games for the console because not enough people have purchased it then they can simply say that. What's the motivation here?

No, but EA hasn't exactly been honest when they slammed the console on Twitter. Especially when people have showed them saying the exact opposite when it just released.
All the other developers either haven't bothered trying or just didn't care.
It's confusing when Crytek says the WiiU can handle their engine yet have a bunch of other devs call it weak.

EDIT: I guess I should of thought twice about saying they "lied" that was a bit of a jump. Pardon me.

Crytek saying the WiiU can handle their engine really isnt that impressive as A, Crytek are pansies now. Their new engine isnt nearly as intensive as the engine for Crysis 1 was. And B, their engine can run on hardware that was released 8 years ago. If the WiiU couldnt even handle that, it would be (more of) a laughing stock.

I'm confused.
PC people on here have praised Crytek for being the prime example of the power that PC's can achieve, and have often cited it as why console users are dumb as bricks.
However it's now mandatory for any console to handle it well?
Or rather, it's no big deal?

Casual Shinji:

Dragonbums:
Nintendo needs a new marketing strategy. There is no arguing that.

But really, the amount of cynicism that's been going around for the thing lately is ridiculous. Stupid news like Bethesda not making a game for the Wii U- a company that hasn't made a game for Nintendo for more over a decade should not get hundreds of comments(on places like IGN and Gamespot) filled with nothing but people hoping the thing dies into the ground.
Devs complained about bad specs.
They improved it.
Devs complained about using the tablet.
Nintendo said they didn't have to use it.

I've played the system. It's a nice piece of hardware. The only thing it needs now is a solid lineup and it's good to go. However this situation is getting absolutely ridiculous.
I can now understand how PS3 fans must of felt like when the console first came out.

It's the same song and dance with the 3DS. A bunch of devs avoided the system. EA and Ubisoft trashed it in public, the thing took off like hot cakes, and now the same people that shot it down can hardly find room to actually put their game on it lest they want to be buried to obscurity by all the great first party titles coming out on a monthly basis.

I think the difference is that Nintendo has always dominated the handheld market (disregarding phones and tablets). It makes me look at Sony and shake my head at how they pigheadedly try to push their way in after already failing with the PSP. Anyway, it was much easier for the 3DS to replace the popularity of the DS, because it was a next gen version of an already popular device many people were familiar with.

The Wii-U however falls in a very awkward middle position where it's not current gen, but it's not quite next gen either compared to what Sony and Microsoft will bring to the table. So the console is there and I'm sure it's fine, but nobody really seems to know what to do with it. It also lacks the universal appeal of the remote to hook in the mainstream this time.

So unless Nintendo or some other third party developer releases a game that can utilize the system in such a way that it will instantly make sense and click for the general audience, I don't see this confusion getting cleared up anytime soon.

The 3DS situation is similar to the Wii U. Closer than what you think.

Like the Wii, the DS family took off with their two screen gimmick.(or innovation; however you see it.) Both appealed to a casual audience. Only difference is that the DS had just as much third party support. Of course the shovelware was just as prevalent. When the 3DS came out, all the third party games ditched it, and no dev knew what to make of it, nor did any consumer care for the thing. Even with the Ocarina of Time remake. I know I didn't care for it when it first came out.
Then somewhere along the line Animal Crossing: The niche franchise somehow brought the thing out of oblivion.(The price cut helped too.)
Then they just kept on making great games and now everyone is hooked.

The WiiU looks grim now, but all it needs is a good game that everyone wants and I feel it will be out of dark waters.

Aiddon:

Dragonbums:

It's the same song and dance with the 3DS. A bunch of devs avoided the system. EA and Ubisoft trashed it in public, the thing took off like hot cakes, and now the same people that shot it down can hardly find room to actually put their game on it lest they want to be buried to obscurity by all the great first party titles coming out on a monthly basis.

Well, that's ultimately the thing that baffles me about the 3DS: 3rd parties who trashed it...STILL haven't come back. EA and Ubisoft haven't made one title for it in years despite the huge user base and the fact that it wouldn't cost much to make a game for it. Instead they keep doing their flawed business models of only making AAA games with budgets that are only increasing and thus making their profit margins thinner and thinner. These kind of bad business decisions are why I don't have sympathies for 3rd parties. It's hard to feel sorry for them when most of their troubles are due to THEIR mistakes, mistakes that they could rectify with ease but choose NOT to. I'm not going to feel sorry for idiots, I'm just going to feel sorry for Nintendo having to deal with them.

EA and Ubisoft forgot business and diplomacy rule #1.

Which is to always ignore, but never burn bridges with your clients.

EA and Ubisoft did both and for at least one of the systems it went and bit them in the ass hard. Now that can't really crawl back to them lest they want to have the sign of "FOOLS" written all over them and people saying "we told you so."

Dragonbums:

Desert Punk:

Dragonbums:

No, but EA hasn't exactly been honest when they slammed the console on Twitter. Especially when people have showed them saying the exact opposite when it just released.
All the other developers either haven't bothered trying or just didn't care.
It's confusing when Crytek says the WiiU can handle their engine yet have a bunch of other devs call it weak.

EDIT: I guess I should of thought twice about saying they "lied" that was a bit of a jump. Pardon me.

Crytek saying the WiiU can handle their engine really isnt that impressive as A, Crytek are pansies now. Their new engine isnt nearly as intensive as the engine for Crysis 1 was. And B, their engine can run on hardware that was released 8 years ago. If the WiiU couldnt even handle that, it would be (more of) a laughing stock.

I'm confused.
PC people on here have praised Crytek for being the prime example of the power that PC's can achieve, and have often cited it as why console users are dumb as bricks.
However it's now mandatory for any console to handle it well?
Or rather, it's no big deal?

I think the point is that it is no longer a big deal. Machines that are almost a decade old can "handle" the engine. It's how you use the engine that matters.

Please understand, all an engine is, is basically a sandbox with tools in it that allow you to make something great. Saying something can handle a game engine is like saying a car can turn on without making any other statements about it.

Dragonbums:
EA and Ubisoft forgot business and diplomacy rule #1.

Which is to always ignore, but never burn bridges with your clients.

EA and Ubisoft did both and for at least one of the systems it went and bit them in the ass hard. Now that can't really crawl back to them lest they want to have the sign of "FOOLS" written all over them and people saying "we told you so."

I don't think Nintendo is holding the cards you think it's holding. Turning down titles from EA and Ubisoft would be turning down money. These aren't business partners ridiculing Nintendo, these are clients/customers saying they won't use their product anymore.

It's important to understand that console companies have two or more customer bases. Developers and gamers are the most basic examples. That's why the XBO seemed so ridiculous to us (gamers). The actions taken weren't dumb perse, they were just squarely aimed at making the developer/publisher customer base more attracted to the console. The idea likely being that it would eventually benefit the gamers with more games and such at what they considered to be an inevitable cost. They only failed in that the market produced a viable alternative that clients flocked to.

Aiddon:

Well, that's ultimately the thing that baffles me about the 3DS: 3rd parties who trashed it...STILL haven't come back. EA and Ubisoft haven't made one title for it in years despite the huge user base and the fact that it wouldn't cost much to make a game for it. Instead they keep doing their flawed business models of only making AAA games with budgets that are only increasing and thus making their profit margins thinner and thinner. These kind of bad business decisions are why I don't have sympathies for 3rd parties. It's hard to feel sorry for them when most of their troubles are due to THEIR mistakes, mistakes that they could rectify with ease but choose NOT to. I'm not going to feel sorry for idiots, I'm just going to feel sorry for Nintendo having to deal with them.

In this case though you don't really see either company really making games on handhelds as much really. I mean heck EA didn't have that many games on the DS when it was out, and usually the games that were there were just ports of console versions. EA and UbiSoft are more of console publishers than handheld publishers if you ask me. You also need to see how the sales of those handheld games did on those systems because if they didn't make much money then usually a company wouldn't want to take a chance. Take for example Square Enix when they made Crystal Chronicles for the GameCube and what they had to work with. They supported the GameCube for 3 years, and in those 3 years they did nothing but lose money which is why they dropped support. While yes the industry makes ridiculous sales expectations nowadays, EA being a big one, if they don't at least come close to breaking even then generally a company won't take a risk on it. Remember, every company is in this industry to make money, including Nintendo as that's how a business is. If businesses were to do things for the right reasons and often times not for a profit then they'd be lucky to last at least 3 years.

Please understand, all an engine is, is basically a sandbox with tools in it that allow you to make something great. Saying something can handle a game engine is like saying a car can turn on without making any other statements about it.

I kind of assume that they can handle more than just the engine at barebones when they make statements like that. Howeveer that is an equally interesting perspective. I guess I just envisioned it as them playing a full game with said engine on it?
As opposed to just putting the engine itself on the system and assuming it would work.

It's important to understand that console companies have two or more customer bases. Developers and gamers are the most basic examples. That's why the XBO seemed so ridiculous to us (gamers). The actions taken weren't dumb perse, they were just squarely aimed at making the developer/publisher customer base more attracted to the console. The idea likely being that it would eventually benefit the gamers with more games and such at what they considered to be an inevitable cost. They only failed in that the market produced a viable alternative that clients flocked to.

Keep it civil though?
I mean, there is no reason for any company that wants to be taken seriously (or as seriously anyone can take EA) to basically act like children with corporate money about it.
A simple "We have no games currently in development at this time" would suffice.
However going on social media and acting like a 12 year old angry fan doesn't make you look good. And if you want to make games for the company later down the road, it will add a lot of...tension to the deal.

Dragonbums:

Keep it civil though?
I mean, there is no reason for any company that wants to be taken seriously (or as seriously anyone can take EA) to basically act like children with corporate money about it.
A simple "We have no games currently in development at this time" would suffice.
However going on social media and acting like a 12 year old angry fan doesn't make you look good. And if you want to make games for the company later down the road, it will add a lot of...tension to the deal.

After the initial Adam Orth #DealWithIt I think it has long been safe to assume that no one in the industry really cares for civility. Often times they play nice with each other in public, but then forget that the internet isn't as anonymous anymore, especially Twitter. Hell look at the Phil Fish thing not too long ago. Plus EA has never really like the Wii U since Nintendo wouldn't let them put Origin on the thing, and believe me you think that EA is immature on consoles you should see how they are with Origin. Doesn't forgive them, but like I said everyone in this industry is a little bit immature on the inside, some just more than others.

EA actually said they had no games in development at the time before the little Twitter thing, it was a few days earlier. The original report from EA when they said it was on May 16. The twitter posts were posted on the 17th and it was reported on the 17th and 18th. Like I said, it doesn't forgive him, but your timing of the events are off as this person started saying those things after EA came out and said they had no games currently in development.

Dragonbums:

EA and Ubisoft forgot business and diplomacy rule #1.

Which is to always ignore, but never burn bridges with your clients.

EA and Ubisoft did both and for at least one of the systems it went and bit them in the ass hard. Now that can't really crawl back to them lest they want to have the sign of "FOOLS" written all over them and people saying "we told you so."

That's precisely why I can't take the 3rd parties' side. Their mistakes are so easy to avoid or rectify and yet they keep doing them anyway. It AMAZES me as how these guys make such basic fuckups and then wonder why their profit margins are so thin and why people prefer Nintendo's 1st party offerings over theirs. You can't expect people to sympathize with an idiot, especially one that ignores the 3DS and portables in general. Things need to change with 3rd parties, though I have no clue how that would happen.

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