Rockstar Uses Actual Gang Members for GTA V Voice Acting

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Maiev Shadowsong:
If you are a criminal, you go to prison to be removed from society. You then have a choice, continue to harm others, or sever those ties and rejoin the community as a genuine citizen.

How about this, you give them a chance to rejoin society before they commit a crime that will send them to jail?

Maiev Shadowsong:

I'm not here to talk about the failures of the the justice system.

I'm not here to talk about it, but obviously we both know it exists. Therefore why would you rather a person go to jail than get given a chance at a normal life?

wulf3n:

Maiev Shadowsong:
If you are a criminal, you go to prison to be removed from society. You then have a choice, continue to harm others, or sever those ties and rejoin the community as a genuine citizen.

How about this, you give them a chance to rejoin society before they commit a crime that will send them to jail?

Maiev Shadowsong:

I'm not here to talk about the failures of the the justice system.

I'm not here to talk about it, but obviously we both know it exists. Therefore why would you rather a person go to jail than get given a chance at a normal life?

"Rejoin society [...] before they go to jail." Are you simply arguing for the sake of it now? Because it seems like you are literally stringing words together to be contrary. Or perhaps you can explain how one rejoins society from prison before being in prison.

Maiev Shadowsong:
"Rejoin society [...] before they go to jail." Are you simply arguing for the sake of it now? Because it seems like you are literally stringing words together to be contrary. Or perhaps you can explain how one rejoins society from prison before being in prison.

It's about preventing crime as opposed to punishing it.

One who believes violence breeds violence would prefer to prevent crime rather than punish it, especially when punishment involves collecting violent people together in small a space because it only takes an I.Q. of 1 to see that that's not going to "reform" anyone.

SonicWaffle:
As, well, with an excellent counterpoint like that, you've swayed me. A well constructed argument if ever I saw one.

Was your sarcasm meant to represent a well constructed point?

SonicWaffle:
Even when they're being paid not to be actively pushing drugs or pimping? You'd rather they were out there doing that than taking employment outside of their usual roles?

You ask me a question, answer it for me and then combat your own answer. It's like you couldn't even be bothered for me to help you set up the straw man and did it all by yourself.

SonicWaffle:
...an attempt at comedy, I assume? You are aware of reoffending rates, and how much of that is associated with prison environment, culture, and the justice system's vengeance-based mentality over an actual rehabilitiation-based system?

Hey, you want more crime, you can pay for more prisons. Just don't be surprised that things end up worse.

Not only have I yet to defend the prison system's methods, you, again, answered a question for me and combated it. So far you've yet to actually make any valid argument at all and have done a lot of talking for me and a lot of assuming.

SonicWaffle:
Yes, many people find an honest way out, and that's why in our fabulously wealthy nations, crime and poverty are all but extinct, nobody ever starves or goes homeless or can't afford basic healthcare.

Oh. Right....

Now you perhaps accidentally suggest "honest ways out of the criminal life" are something that never happens, thus unintentionally in this context supporting dishonest ways out, as there are only two options -- or you mix them both. Your sarcasm may have shot you in the foot, I'm not sure. Either way, more nonsense.

Oh and you contradict yourself. "Honest ways out don't happen." "These people are being honestly paid not to commit crime." While the latter was part of your straw man and you probably don't believe it, the irony is still humorous.

SonicWaffle:
They pretty much already have. That's why they end up as criminals.

Not sure what you're trying to suggest here. Perhaps you want me to feel sorry for them. Either way, irrelevant.

wulf3n:

Maiev Shadowsong:
"Rejoin society [...] before they go to jail." Are you simply arguing for the sake of it now? Because it seems like you are literally stringing words together to be contrary. Or perhaps you can explain how one rejoins society from prison before being in prison.

It's about preventing crime as opposed to punishing it.

One who believes violence breeds violence would prefer to prevent crime rather than punish it, especially when punishment involves collecting violent people together in small a space because it only takes an I.Q. of 1 to see that that's not going to "reform" anyone.

Well, you didn't explain your fuck up at all. I'll repost it so you can see it again.

"Rejoin society [...] before they go to jail." Are you simply arguing for the sake of it now? Because it seems like you are literally stringing words together to be contrary. Or perhaps you can explain how one rejoins society from prison before being in prison.

I'm very interested to learn how one rejoins society without having left it.

Then you go on to assume I view prison as punishment and use that assumption to try and combat me. Which is funny, because I don't see prison as a punishment.

I have only one issue with this. Humour. Rockstar are pretty renowned for their humourous dialogue but if the real gang members say "Naw, I'm not saying this" then is GTA still a parody of real crime or a simulation? Even the pedestrians of GTAIV were humourous.

Isn't it a little naive to think that this one, single voice acting opportunity will be enough to magically turn their lives around, and get them out of the gangs and into a legitimate career? And no, it's probably not gonna lead to a career in VO. For just some throwaway role, they're probably being paid about $800. That's almost a month of rent, and nowhere near enough to start a new life. Maybe more if they're getting credit for supervising the script. Still, I wouldn't bet it's enough to turn their life around.

I don't know how to feel about this, really. For me, it's more about the fact that they'll probably suck at delivering their lines--they're not actors, after all.

Maiev Shadowsong:

I'm very interested to learn how one rejoins society without having left it.

Those who commit criminal activities to survive aren't a part of society, as they don't contribute to society. I didn't explain it because because it was so obvious.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Then you go on to assume I view prison as punishment and use that assumption to try and combat me. Which is funny, because I don't see prison as a punishment.

Then what do you see it as a day care center?

wulf3n:

Maiev Shadowsong:

I'm very interested to learn how one rejoins society without having left it.

Those who commit criminal activities to survive aren't a part of society, as they don't contribute to society. I didn't explain it because because it was so obvious.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Then you go on to assume I view prison as punishment and use that assumption to try and combat me. Which is funny, because I don't see prison as a punishment.

Then what do you see it as a day care center?

They aren't part of society because they don't- oh man, even the people in the Space Station can see you are making this up as you go. You are a part of society until you are removed from it last time I checked. Or are the criminals who are walking around ghosts? Cool.

Prison is exactly what I said it is numerous times.

i always had the feeling that rockstar is run by criminals but now they do hire criminals. the way they explain situations and pretty much know how things are in crime. just look at LA noire.
but well, i woulndt have bought part 5 anyway. gave up on it the series a long time ago.

Maiev Shadowsong:
They aren't part of society because they don't- oh man, even the people in the Space Station can see you are making this up as you go. You are a part of society until you are removed from it last time I checked.

Oh Glorious Genius Overload explain to me then exactly how one is removed from society and how that differs from what I said.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Prison is exactly what I said it is numerous times.

You know, it doesn't even matter what you "think" prison is because it doesn't change the fact that you prefer to send people there than prevent them from needing to be sent there.

Which again goes against the core of "violence breeds violence"

Metalrocks:
i always had the feeling that rockstar is run by criminals but now they do hire criminals. the way they explain situations and pretty much know how things are in crime. just look at LA noire.
but well, i woulndt have bought part 5 anyway. gave up on it the series a long time ago.

So.. "know[ing] how things are in crime" makes you a criminal? By that logic, wouldn't detectives (and lawyers especially) be criminals themselves? Couldn't they just, I don't know, be talented writers?

And I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "explain situations."

Also, inb4 lawyer joke.

EDIT because fuck it, I can't be bothered. Not worth getting riled up over. Sorry if I've annoyed anyone, but this really isn't worth having it descend into petty insults and "no, YOU straw-manned first!" bickering.

Peace out y'all, and have a nice day.

What the hell guys. Here is Rockstar getting their hands dirty (no pun and offense intended) for their craft and this is how you appreciate their work?

I personally applaud their creativity and guts.

Hiring convicted criminals is fine.

Hiring people specifically because they are convicted criminals, not fine. If the only way you can get that job is to be convicted of something first...that is very different from not being biased against hiring criminals.

(As an aside, I could see the game being banned in Australia over this, as under Australian law it's illegal to profit from a crime, which might include getting a job a law abiding citizen couldn't.)

thaluikhain:
(As an aside, I could see the game being banned in Australia over this, as under Australian law it's illegal to profit from a crime, which might include getting a job a law abiding citizen couldn't.)

I think that refers specifically to the criminal who committed the crime is not able to profit from that crime. Unless Rockstar are referencing actual crimes there shouldn't be an issue.

Maiev Shadowsong:

wulf3n:

Maiev Shadowsong:
That's not even a good straw man (if there is such a thing). You're just offering more logical fallacies in place of any argument at all now. I said I'm happy to imprison criminals until they sever themselves from criminal actions. You can't pretend I made any comment on the internal operations of the prison system or support or have any control over the individual actions of said criminals if they chose to be violent. Your "argument" is absurd.

So why would you rather prevent a person from getting legitimate work:

Maiev Shadowsong:

I'd rather drug pushing pimps and thugs don't get paid out of my pocket. I'd rather they end up in prison

And send them to a place that is likely to exacerbate their criminal behaviour out of necessity.

You honestly can't believe violence breeds violence if you'd prefer to send people to a place that is violent to "cure" them of their violent ways, rather than help them get out of their situation.

More logical fallacies. Or you genuinely don't understand the argument.

If you are a criminal, you go to prison to be removed from society. You then have a choice, continue to harm others, or sever those ties and rejoin the community as a genuine citizen. I'd rather you sit in prison for the rest of your life than see you split your time 50/50 between a working job and breaking the law. It's all or nothing. There's no "I'm sorry, it's too hard" option. I don't want to see anyone waste their one life in a cement box, but it's their call.

If you want to argue more about the prison system, don't waste either of our times. I'm not going to engage in your straw man and I'm not here to talk about the failures of the the justice system. Either answer to my argument or don't.

You can tell that this was written by someone who has had every opportunity in life handed to them on a silver platter.

wulf3n:

Maiev Shadowsong:
They aren't part of society because they don't- oh man, even the people in the Space Station can see you are making this up as you go. You are a part of society until you are removed from it last time I checked.

Oh Glorious Genius Overload explain to me then exactly how one is removed from society and how that differs from what I said.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Prison is exactly what I said it is numerous times.

You know, it doesn't even matter what you "think" prison is because it doesn't change the fact that you prefer to send people there than prevent them from needing to be sent there.

Which again goes against the core of "violence breeds violence"

Go ahead and show me where I said I "prefer to send people to prison instead of preventing a crime."

I'll wait.

BarbaricGoose:

Metalrocks:
i always had the feeling that rockstar is run by criminals but now they do hire criminals. the way they explain situations and pretty much know how things are in crime. just look at LA noire.
but well, i woulndt have bought part 5 anyway. gave up on it the series a long time ago.

So.. "know[ing] how things are in crime" makes you a criminal? By that logic, wouldn't detectives (and lawyers especially) be criminals themselves? Couldn't they just, I don't know, be talented writers?

And I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "explain situations."

Also, inb4 lawyer joke.

lol, i was being more sarcastic about it, not serious.
just to me, pretty much every game from rockstar (at least the once i have played), has something to do with crime. im not saying that knowing how crime it self works is bad, just the impression they give me that rockstar is run by criminals because of these games.

thats all.

The Plunk:
You can tell that this was written by someone who has had every opportunity in life handed to them on a silver platter.

Do I know you? No, didn't think so. Odd that you'd assume to know anything at all about me. Well, not odd. Just dumb.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Go ahead and show me where I said I "prefer to send people to prison instead of preventing a crime."

I'll wait.

OK.

Maiev Shadowsong:

I'd rather drug pushing pimps and thugs don't get paid out of my pocket. I'd rather they end up in prison

Hmmm, rather they end up in prison than get paid legitimate work.

wulf3n:

Maiev Shadowsong:
Go ahead and show me where I said I "prefer to send people to prison instead of preventing a crime."

I'll wait.

OK.

Maiev Shadowsong:

I'd rather drug pushing pimps and thugs don't get paid out of my pocket. I'd rather they end up in prison

Hmmm, rather they end up in prison than get paid legitimate work.

Now you're trying to argue not wanting to give money to drug pushing pimps is the same as preferring they commit crime and go to prison. Do tell me how much money you give to sex slavers, drug dealers and murderous every day to prevent them committing crime. Oh, is that absurd? Yes. Yes it is absurd. Almost as if someone was reaching so far to try and prove a point that they ignored context and reasonable logic.

frizzlebyte:

I'd just love to know who this "specialist" is that found all these gang members. That would be one hell of an eye-brow raising CV.

A police reporter who is fairly competent at his job, someone who grew up in the poorer parts of LA but isn't a gangmember, ex-gangmembers or current gangmembers.

Just more evidence that Rockstar are as scummy as the characters they make. By giving known criminals any kind of support or money they will be supporting organised crime.

All of you saying its honest work need to realise that this is just glorification of the criminal lifestyle for them. They need to get an honest job that is not at all related to gang activity, thats the way to reform people. Not paying them to be in a game glorifying criminals because they are in a violent gang.

I also cant see them being great voice actors... I think I may give GTA5 a miss.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Now you're trying to argue not wanting to give money to drug pushing pimps is the same as preferring they commit crime and go to prison.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of someone who claims to believe "violence breeds violence" but would prefer criminals keep commiting crimes and go to jail than give them legitimate work.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Do tell me how much money you give to sex slavers, drug dealers and murderous every day to prevent them committing crime. Oh, is that absurd? Yes. Yes it is absurd.

Is it absurd to give people alternatives to crime?

Maiev Shadowsong:

Almost as if someone was reaching so far to try and prove a point that they ignored context and reasonable logic.

Yeah I know how that feels.

Oh Fox news is so going to jump on to this....

I don't think this is a good idea... I don't think it adds anything to the game that talent voice actor udner someone's guidance who knows about gangs would have.

wulf3n:

Maiev Shadowsong:
Now you're trying to argue not wanting to give money to drug pushing pimps is the same as preferring they commit crime and go to prison.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of someone who claims to believe "violence breeds violence" but would prefer criminals keep commiting crimes and go to jail than get legitimate work.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Do tell me how much money you give to sex slavers, drug dealers and murderous every day to prevent them committing crime. Oh, is that absurd? Yes. Yes it is absurd.

Is it absurd to give people alternatives to crime?

Maiev Shadowsong:

Almost as if someone was reaching so far to try and prove a point that they ignored context and reasonable logic.

Yeah I know how that feels.

Wow, you sure showed that straw man.

Too bad you've missed the point so hard your argument went in entirely the wrong direction. I said I refuse to pay drug pushing pimps and murderers. I repeated several times that former criminals are fine. I mentioned more than once that I want criminals to sever their ties to crime and then get a job. In fact, I specifically mentioend my wondering if they were in fact current criminals, or if it was an attempt at buzz from scumbag, piece of shit marketers.

Hiring "gang members," I said, is not the same as hiring "former gang members." If you want to give money to active murderers, you go right ahead.

Has the argument that has been made since the very start suddenly become clear to you?

Maiev Shadowsong:

I said I refuse to pay drug pushing pimps and murderers.

For legitimate work, don't forget the most crucial part.

and technically you said Thugs not murderers, quit changing your argument.

Maiev Shadowsong:

I mentioned more than once that I want criminals to sever their ties to crime and then get a job.

So they can't get a job then sever their ties to crime?

Maiev Shadowsong:

Has the argument that has been made since the very start suddenly become clear to you?

You mean the argument in my very first post that you've yet to address:

"you prefer to send people there than prevent them from needing to be sent there.
Which goes against the core of "violence breeds violence"

This?
Is a rather stupid idea.

Firstly your giving money to gangsters.Gangsters.Real life,drug consuming,kiler Gangsters...

Second,why would you want to do so if you can perfectly just hire anyone competent in the video game voice department that can succseesfully emulate the desired effect?Nolan North maybe?

Third,your seting some real big fox drama bait.Thats not smart at all.If regular people hear your funding criminals just to get realistic voice acting in a video game,Jack Tompfuckson will win?
You want Jack Fucktompson to win?do ya?

Well the article says that they got out of prison, IE, they did the time for their crimes. I don't see the problem. The whole situation and how people are reacting to it kind of reminds me of Les Miserables where the main guy did 17 years for stealing a loaf of bread and then couldn't get work anywhere.

Then again Fox News is going to be jumping on this and talking about it day in...and...day...out..........Rockstar you clever bastards. You KNEW that people would find this controversial and would talk about it all the time. And there's no such thing as bad publicity is there? Christ, it's practically GTA tradition.

wulf3n:

Maiev Shadowsong:

I said I refuse to pay drug pushing pimps and murderers.

For legitimate work, don't forget the most crucial part.

and technically you said Thugs not murderers, quit changing your argument.

Maiev Shadowsong:

I mentioned more than once that I want criminals to sever their ties to crime and then get a job.

So they can't get a job then sever their ties to crime?

Maiev Shadowsong:

Has the argument that has been made since the very start suddenly become clear to you?

You mean the argument in my very first post that you've yet to address:

"you prefer to send people there than prevent them from needing to be sent there.
Which goes against the core of "violence breeds violence"

Oh, nice of you to go in a circle in your failing attempts to out debate me. We're back here again, eh. Back to you using a quote of me wrong as evidence that I somehow want FORMER gang members to go to gaol.

Well I'm done with you. You've argued in a circle, used straw mans and generally refused to read anything. Bye bye.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Oh, nice of you to go in a circle in your failing attempts to out debate me.

Going in a circle requires us to have moved from the initial post, we haven't gone anywhere.

Maiev Shadowsong:

We're back here again, eh.

We never left.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Back to you using a quote of me wrong as evidence that I somehow want FORMER gang members to go to gaol.

History will be the judge of that.

edit: I also never said or implied you want FORMER gang members to go to jail, I only ever showed that you said you want current gang members to go to jail instead of not be gang members.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Well I'm done with you.

So be it.

Maiev Shadowsong:

You've argued in a circle,

No I haven't.

Maiev Shadowsong:

used straw mans

No I haven't.

Maiev Shadowsong:

and generally refused to read anything.

I've read everything.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Bye bye.

See ya.

This hypemachine is getting beyond a joke, multistory buildings covered with GTA V images, now this, look at us we are using criminals to play criminals aren't we awesome!?

Who the hell is going to be able to tell the difference between a voice actor and a criminal? No one, the closest most people have been to a criminal is watching the sopranos. Hell the criminal is probably going to sound the worst out of the two because he is just a criminal trying to voice act as a criminal.

Argh shit like this smells of nothing more than a PR stunt.

Maiev Shadowsong:
"Former gang members" fine. Good. People getting a job. But "gang members?" No. You don't give money to criminals. Stop being a piece of shit thug and THEN get a job. I'm not paying to support your disgusting, parasitic lifestyle.

Right, because giving someone a job so they can support their family is totally supporting crime. Fun fact, a lot of people are in gangs because they can't afford not to be in one.They don't have access to the education needed for a successful career in a field, they don't have access to a lot of equipment that would allow them to search beyond their current environment for a job and they don't have access to adequate protection as cops often avoid high crime areas during patrols (Ironic right?). So how do they protect themselves while also earning an income? By affiliating themselves with gangs. If you employ them, they're more likely to leave a gang.

Also, boycotting a game over a series of voice actors is really fucking silly, especially when we have developers get away with racism and misogyny in their games on a regular basis (Looking at you, Techland.) But hey, if you want to skip out on it, I'm not gonna judge you on that, but I think your argument is severely lacking.

Seriously? Think about it for a second. One of the more prevalent messages in gangster rap is to "get out of the hood". You don't get out of the hood without a job.

Fuck I hope you precious princesses aren't fans of Sons of Anarchy which stars actual members of the Hells Angels motorcycle club, or any mob movie made in the last thirty years because a lot of the time, actual gangsters get bit parts in them for shits and giggles, and occasionally hired as consultants.

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