Rockstar Uses Actual Gang Members for GTA V Voice Acting

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maddawg IAJI:

Maiev Shadowsong:
"Former gang members" fine. Good. People getting a job. But "gang members?" No. You don't give money to criminals. Stop being a piece of shit thug and THEN get a job. I'm not paying to support your disgusting, parasitic lifestyle.

Right, because giving someone a job so they can support their family is totally supporting crime. Fun fact, a lot of people are in gangs because they can't afford not to be in one.They don't have access to the education needed for a successful career in a field, they don't have access to a lot of equipment that would allow them to search beyond their current environment for a job and they don't have access to adequate protection as cops often avoid high crime areas during patrols (Ironic right?). So how do they protect themselves while also earning an income? By affiliating themselves with gangs. If you employ them, they're more likely to leave a gang.

Also, boycotting a game over a series of voice actors is really fucking silly, especially when we have developers get away with racism and misogyny in their games on a regular basis (Looking at you, Techland.) But hey, if you want to skip out on it, I'm not gonna judge you on that, but I think your argument is severely lacking.

Seriously? Think about it for a second. One of the more prevalent messages in gangster rap is to "get out of the hood". You don't get out of the hood without a job.

Plenty of my family is/was poor. I'm talking eat a single meal a day if you're lucky. Or eat out of the garbage. Don't tell me there's no other options. "It's hard" isn't an excuse to be a piece of shit thug. Also, don't even pretend for a second that this voice acting gig will or could get anyone in a gang, out of a gang. That they are in a gang, means they want to be. These aren't former gang members. Throwing your voice down on a track isn't converting this cowardly assholes.

What does people letting developers get away with racism and sexism have to do with me? "Don't not support these people supporting active gang members, because other people are supporting bad stuff too!" Or perhaps you assume I support those video games. Which would be wrong. Like most assumptions.

Again, this isn't going to get anyone "out of the hood." If you want to, you will. Stop being a parasitic creature that prays on fear and drug abuse, then you can get my money for your work. You don't get to bully people into handing over their hard earned money, sell drugs and women and expect some help on the side. It can be done. It is done. Or enjoy prison.

EDIT: my mum grew up in a household that boiled water over a fire for a bath. No plumbing. No 3 meals a day. Electricity was a luxurious rarity. Education was whatever she could get before joining the military at minimum age. She's never broken the law. She's never stolen. She's never bludged off the government.

My dad is the exact same case, only he joined and became a nurse, not a sigs. like Mum. Also, he grew up around neo-Nazi skinheads. Guess who didn't join a gang for money? Yeah. Him.

Gang members are weak cowards.

There is a reason companies hire professional voice actors. They are good at what they do. People don't want an "authentic" gang member's voice, they want a voice that sounds bad ass and puts some drama into the performance.

Perhaps this will turn out well, perhaps this will backfire. Only time will tell.

Raggedstar:
Is that...is that even legal? I'm not sure.

Yes it is legal to hire gang members, criminals, felons and what not but it IS frowned upon depending on the Job.

It's what makes it hard to people who are out of prison to have a job that doesn't involve prison time

actually this bothers me alot. i get it there's some people making bad choices and an olive branch to legitimate work might be just what they need to turn their life around. but what about taking people who "were" gang members. someone who has shown a legitimate desire to change and make their life better. it sounds like they are using current gang members, if it's all former gang members thats one thing but you give a thug a paycheck and it will be used to commit crimes and in a very real way rockstar is enableing them to continue down this path. supose a guy takes the money rockstar gave him, buys a gun or even just bullets and uses them to murder someone. isn't rockstar moraly responsible for that in some way. maybe not legally no, but moraly? i don't think a criminal record should be a death sentance we need to focus more on rehabilitation and less on punishment but this is putting money into the drug fund or the gun fund not the rehab fund. yay hurray for you the game is "authentic" i don't know that that's a worthy enough cause to employ violent criminals who have no desire to change their life.

To all the people bitching in this thread:

This practice is not new, it's been done numerous times before in a bunch of different forms of media. I guess for you guys, ignorance is bliss after all.

I like the idea and want to see how it pans out.

Vie:
I actually don't want to buy the game now.

Wow, well done Rockstar, you found a way to fornicate the canine. I just can't support giving money to gang members, and though I can't quite believe I'm saying this - I won't buy GTA V as a direct result of this.

Are you actually serious? You would really turn down buying a game you (I assume) were previously going to buy because of this? If so, then, good lord man! I'm sure we'll all be thinking of you come the 17th.

Baldr:
As a game developer I don't think it a great idea/ethical to support criminal gangs. Reformed gang members I would probably be ok with, but taking actual criminals is another.

Wouldn't this apply to anyone who wants to give gang members a job?

Hey you know that guy who played Machete? The big Mexican guy who's been in a bunch of movies (he was the bartender in Anchorman). Well he's an ex-con and now he's an actor.

Psychobabble:
Sigh. Great. So Rockstar continues to support the fall of Western Civilization. Why does this not surprise me.

The fall of Western Civilization is giving gang members a temp job?

Father Time:

Baldr:
As a game developer I don't think it a great idea/ethical to support criminal gangs. Reformed gang members I would probably be ok with, but taking actual criminals is another.

Wouldn't this apply to anyone who wants to give gang members a job?

Hey you know that guy who played Machete? The big Mexican guy who's been in a bunch of movies (he was the bartender in Anchorman). Well he's an ex-con and now he's an actor.

Also, don't know how many people have seen/heard of the film The Angels' Share, but the actor playing the main character in that was brought up amidst gang culture as well as being a repeat offender himself before getting into acting. In what way would thee gang members that Rockstar are using here be any different from these folks?

Maiev Shadowsong:
"Former gang members" fine. Good. People getting a job. But "gang members?" No. You don't give money to criminals. Stop being a piece of shit thug and THEN get a job.

Imagine someone is a thug because they need the money. Now they take your advice, stop being a thug and look for a job. But oh no, finding a job can take a long time, probably longer if you have a criminal record and/or gang affiliations. What should they do for money in the meantime?

Maiev Shadowsong:

I'm not paying to support your disgusting, parasitic lifestyle.

Rockstar's paying them for voice acting, not to support them. It's not a handout.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Either way, no matter the case, not buying your game, Rockstar. Supporting crime, trying to support crime and being taken for a ride, or supporting marketing that I despise. Take your pick. - 2 sales for my boyfriend and I.

You know they can't unpay the actors.

Father Time:

Baldr:
As a game developer I don't think it a great idea/ethical to support criminal gangs. Reformed gang members I would probably be ok with, but taking actual criminals is another.

Wouldn't this apply to anyone who wants to give gang members a job?

Hey you know that guy who played Machete? The big Mexican guy who's been in a bunch of movies (he was the bartender in Anchorman). Well he's an ex-con and now he's an actor.

I wrote, I have no problems giving reformed/retired/EX-con jobs. What I have a problem with is paying gang members to be gang members and still have them engage in criminal activities.

josemlopes:
So apparently now everyone thinks that a criminal out of jail doing honest work is worse then doing criminal stuff. Ok...

Yeah, seriously, what the hell 'scapes?

This is the pinnacle of "sure, fine."

Well I wouldn't be to quick to judge. Sure we have bad opinions about criminals and I would probably distrust one depending on how bad their crime was... but I will give a little credit to Rockstar and say they choose specific gang members, not just whomever because that could go terribly wrong.

The gang members probably had to sign contracts and were given a background check before the studio decided they could voice act and be trust worthy in doing so without doing anything illegal. But who knows, maybe they did just walk the streets of downtown somewhere and go "Hey you! You're a gang member! I'll give you a thousand dollars if you voice act for a video game!" ...

Maiev Shadowsong:
I'm talking eat a single meal a day if you're lucky. Or eat out of the garbage.

Add on top of that losing quite a few friends to random/gang violence and a not insignificant chance of getting stabbed, shot, or just beaten to death every time you leave your house and you'll have a better understanding of why some people join gangs

I doubt they're active gang members. Otherwise the police will be looking very eagerly at the credits. Also funny how easily some Rockstar researcher can find gang members but the police can't.

Psychobabble:
Sigh. Great. So Rockstar continues to support the fall of Western Civilization. Why does this not surprise me.

How? They gave these guys very temporal voice acting jobs, probably for very bit characters. It's not like they are giving these guys permanent jobs or making them the lead characters.

Baldr:

Father Time:

Baldr:
As a game developer I don't think it a great idea/ethical to support criminal gangs. Reformed gang members I would probably be ok with, but taking actual criminals is another.

Wouldn't this apply to anyone who wants to give gang members a job?

Hey you know that guy who played Machete? The big Mexican guy who's been in a bunch of movies (he was the bartender in Anchorman). Well he's an ex-con and now he's an actor.

I wrote, I have no problems giving reformed/retired/EX-con jobs. What I have a problem with is paying gang members to be gang members and still have them engage in criminal activities.

They gotta start somewhere and they're paying them for a legitimate part time job not to be gang members.

Simonism451:

frizzlebyte:

I'd just love to know who this "specialist" is that found all these gang members. That would be one hell of an eye-brow raising CV.

A police reporter who is fairly competent at his job, someone who grew up in the poorer parts of LA but isn't a gangmember, ex-gangmembers or current gangmembers.

Huh, hadn't thought of that. Don't know a lot of cops, or anyone who covers the cop beat for the papers, so my train of thought wasn't really going in that direction.

I guess it ain't exactly rocket science, though...

Maiev Shadowsong:
Again, this isn't going to get anyone "out of the hood." If you want to, you will

Oh please, it's easy to simply tell people to get a job and get out of poverty and gang life but in reality it's never as easy to actually do it.

VanQ:

alphamalet:
Snip.

Besides the fact that you appear to show a complete lack of human empathy

Sir, certainly you have to see the irony in your own statement. This is what you said, nay bragged about in your reply to me.

Oh and about the charity comment, I've been employed since the age of 14 and 9 months and live fairly well and not a damn cent of mine has gone to charity.

I ask you, who displays a complete lack of human empathy? You are so concerned about the human condition that refuse to sacrifice "a damn cent" in order to perhaps improve peoples' lives. The hypocrisy is beyond astounding.

I don't believe in giving money to active criminals. I am sympathetic to the social ills that may cause a person to turn that sort of thing, but I refuse to be an apologist for someone who perpetuates a lifestyle that is detrimental to society. Saying that I lack empathy because of this, or that this viewpoint makes me a bad person is capitulation in the purest sense. You want to talk empathy? How about empathizing with the victims of the gangsters' criminal behavior? I think that would be a good place for you to start. You would rather empathize with criminals than their victims.

I also see that the only thing you do in your post is say I lack human empathy (what a joke coming from you), and refused to address the finer point of my post.

Father Time:

Baldr:

Father Time:

Wouldn't this apply to anyone who wants to give gang members a job?

Hey you know that guy who played Machete? The big Mexican guy who's been in a bunch of movies (he was the bartender in Anchorman). Well he's an ex-con and now he's an actor.

I wrote, I have no problems giving reformed/retired/EX-con jobs. What I have a problem with is paying gang members to be gang members and still have them engage in criminal activities.

They gotta start somewhere and they're paying them for a legitimate part time job not to be gang members.

This is not a part time job, it just a one time, couple hours in a sound booth.

Wolf In A Bear Suit:
I doubt they're active gang members. Otherwise the police will be looking very eagerly at the credits. Also funny how easily some Rockstar researcher can find gang members but the police can't.

Well them being in a gang isn't gonna get them arrested in and of itself.

Baldr:
What I have a problem with is paying gang members to be gang members

Technically they're being paid for their knowledge of gang behaviour, but they're not being paid to be gang members.

Baldr:

This is not a part time job, it just a one time, couple hours in a sound booth.

Is it going to change their life, probably not, that doesn't mean the act itself is bad or shouldn't be offered.

Me donating a dollar a day to world vision isn't changing the world that doesn't mean I should stop.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Plenty of my family is/was poor.

As was mine, tends to be the case when you're parents are new immigrants. [/quote]

Maiev Shadowsong:
I'm talking eat a single meal a day if you're lucky. Or eat out of the garbage.

"They're poor" will suffice. Thank you for going into detail while I eat my dinner though...I wasn't planning on enjoying my Chinese food anyways.

Don't tell me there's no other options.

Did I say they had no other options? I do believe I said that they had limited options, many of which involve taking a minimum wage job and even then, there is still the safety risk I mentioned earlier.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Also, don't even pretend for a second that this voice acting gig will or could get anyone in a gang, out of a gang.

Actually, it probably would since its a very lucrative career. I mean, on average, they make about $800 a session (Or 4 hours) in laymans terms, that's what I make in 2 weeks in my cashier position in retail. Assuming they did 2 or 3 sessions, they now have enough money for a down payment on a car. Now they have a car, and that alone opens doors that were previously closed. Now they're no longer dependent on the public transit system, which means they can apply to or even work greater distances from their home for greater pay or for more hours. You're right, it may not be the golden road out of the "Thug life", but you do not have the right to assume it doesn't open doors to a better life.

Maiev Shadowsong:
That they are in a gang, means they want to be. These aren't former gang members. Throwing your voice down on a track isn't converting this cowardly assholes.

Who said it did? This isn't about conversion or rehabilitation, this is about employing a person for a realistic persona. And again, just because they're gang members does not mean they don't want a better life and that they don't want to work for one. You think everyone wants to sell drugs for a living and risk rotting in jail?

Maiev Shadowsong:

What does people letting developers get away with racism and sexism have to do with me?

I'm trying to politely say that you're getting worked up over a small thing while other other developers are getting away with much worse. To put it into a metaphor, I really hate it when people complain about the fly when their is an elephant in the room.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Perhaps you assume I support those video games. Which would be wrong. Like most assumptions.

Do you even know what game I'm talking about? Don't even answer that. Just stop fucking twisting my words. I never assumed you supported those games. I merely provided you with something you can actually look into and actually have a reason to despise what goes on in the video game medium instead of this petty bullshit about a handful of VOs.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Again, this isn't going to get anyone "out of the hood." If you want to, you will.

Okay, I make 15,500 a year. I can't afford college, I can barely afford my own rent, I have no trade ( Which is the case of a lot of people who don't have access to a trade school) and I have, on avergae, at least 2 non working family members to support. How do you get out? Can you at least see how it would drive someone to crime? Its not a matter of it being easy, its a matter of you lacking empathy. Who cares if they're in a gang. It is better they are making money by legitimate means.

Maiev Shadowsong:
EDIT: my mum grew up in a household that boiled water over a fire for a bath. No plumbing. No 3 meals a day. Electricity was a luxurious rarity. Education was whatever she could get before joining the military at minimum age. She's never broken the law. She's never stolen. She's never bludged off the government.

My dad is the exact same case, only he joined and became a nurse, not a sigs. like Mum. Also, he grew up around neo-Nazi skinheads. Guess who didn't join a gang for money? Yeah. Him.

Minus the neo-nazi experience, my folks did the exact same fucking thing. My father dropped out of school at 4th grade (Heck, school was a luxery he had because he lived in the mainland of Portugal.) My mother, who lived in the Madeira Islands didn't attend a public school until the 5th grade. They had no power lines. The nearest market was at least 20 miles away and they had no car. They worked on a farm their entire childhood. Such was the life in Rural Portugal. Then they moved to America, they adapted, they worked in factories, got an education and grew up in a harsh crime ridden environment. Are you understanding what I'm trying to say here? The experience of your parents isn't anything unique. Millions of people are going through that exact same process today. Live in poverty, work hard their entire life, maybe join the military, settle down and raise a family, but what is the biggest difference between your parents, my parents and those currently in poverty in ghettos across the country? When our parents dropped out of school, they could get a job that could support their family. Your mother joined the military, my mother worked as a factory worker, where the wage was low, but large enough that she could buy food and vegetables for her family, provided she walked to work every day instead of taking the bus in the town into the city. The average person today can't. You cannot make a big enough salary to feed a family of 4 while working in a entry position. Even the U.S. army doesn't pay nearly well enough to do that (Average pay for a 1st rank private is 18,000 dollars a year. or in layman terms, about 2,000 more then you would make as a cashier for Walmart.) You do not the right to assume that these people are just lazy. They have been dealt a really shitty hand and honestly, as a person who is the offspring of people who were dealt a shitty hand, you really should use that background to envoke sympathy for these people rather then using it like a goddamn lecturing ruler. Volunteer for a non-profit school. Donate to a food pantry. Donate suits you don't use to the salvation army to help these individuals look professional. And most importantly learn not to complain about people actually getting legitimate work and...

Maiev Shadowsong:
Gang members are weak cowards.

Stop sounding so goddamn PO'd all the time. Seriously, its not a very attractive personality.

Vie:
I actually don't want to buy the game now.

Wow, well done Rockstar, you found a way to fornicate the canine. I just can't support giving money to gang members, and though I can't quite believe I'm saying this - I won't buy GTA V as a direct result of this.

So offering people a legitimate job and an opportunity to change is a bad thing? Do you think once someone's a gang member their a write off or something?

Baldr:

Father Time:

Baldr:

I wrote, I have no problems giving reformed/retired/EX-con jobs. What I have a problem with is paying gang members to be gang members and still have them engage in criminal activities.

They gotta start somewhere and they're paying them for a legitimate part time job not to be gang members.

This is not a part time job, it just a one time, couple hours in a sound booth.

Right I meant to say a temp job, sorry.

maddawg IAJI:
[...]

You do a lot of crime sympathizing and not much else. If for some reason you can't find any work at all, you eat out of the bin, beg for money and find home where you can. What you don't do is steal, sell drugs and murder people. You act like it's suddenly not so bad that these people are gang members because they might have it rough. No. Living on a dollar or less a day is entirely possible (and done by many millions of people). It's difficult and as close to rock bottom as it probably gets. But it's 100% possible. If you turn to crime, you are a weak coward.

No idea why you decide to tell me my personality isn't attractive to you. I wasn't trying to attract you or befriend you. Why I would care if you dislike me, I don't know.

Maiev Shadowsong:
You do a lot of crime sympathizing and not much else. If for some reason you can't find any work at all, you eat out of the bin, beg for money and find home where you can. What you don't do is steal, sell drugs and murder people. You act like it's suddenly not so bad that these people are gang members because they might have it rough. No. Living on a dollar or less a day is entirely possible (and done by many millions of people). It's difficult and as close to rock bottom as it probably gets. But it's 100% possible. If you turn to crime, you are a weak coward.

I'm not sympathizing with crime, but I understand human nature enough to know that humans always want to lead a more comfortable life and doing so requires money. Ergo, Humans without access to a supportable income will turn to crime. You don't stop it by telling to beg. You don't stop it by telling them to knock it off and not do crime. Calling them cowards also does nothing and telling them how much you dislike their lifestyle and those who would employ them for that life style also does nothing. Long story short, I don't sympathize with criminals, I merely understand why a majority of them do what they do and solutions that can prevent the next group of people from falling down the same paths.

Maiev Shadowsong:

No idea why you decide to tell me my personality isn't attractive to you. I wasn't trying to attract you or befriend you. Why I would care if you dislike me, I don't know.

Because its incredibly hostile for no reason. Calling gangsters cowards adds nothing to a conversation. It sounds like you're listing a series of arguments and it looks like this:

1) Gangsters are cowards
2) *Insert argument*
3) Gangsters are cowards
....
7) Gangsters are cowards.

What I'm trying to say here is that "WE GOT IT! THANK YOU FOR YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ON GANGSTERS! Now can you kindly return to your arguments on why it is immoral to hire criminals for a legal and legitimate job so that one can create a quality product?

maddawg IAJI:

Maiev Shadowsong:
You do a lot of crime sympathizing and not much else. If for some reason you can't find any work at all, you eat out of the bin, beg for money and find home where you can. What you don't do is steal, sell drugs and murder people. You act like it's suddenly not so bad that these people are gang members because they might have it rough. No. Living on a dollar or less a day is entirely possible (and done by many millions of people). It's difficult and as close to rock bottom as it probably gets. But it's 100% possible. If you turn to crime, you are a weak coward.

I'm not sympathizing with crime, but I understand human nature enough to know that humans always want to lead a more comfortable life and doing so requires money. Ergo, Humans without access to a supportable income will turn to crime. You don't stop it by telling to beg. You don't stop it by telling them to knock it off and not do crime. Calling them cowards also does nothing and telling them how much you dislike their lifestyle and those who would employ them for that life style also does nothing. Long story short, I don't sympathize with criminals, I merely understand why a majority of them do what they do and solutions that can prevent the next group of people from falling down the same paths.

Maiev Shadowsong:

No idea why you decide to tell me my personality isn't attractive to you. I wasn't trying to attract you or befriend you. Why I would care if you dislike me, I don't know.

Because its incredibly hostile for no reason. Calling gangsters cowards adds nothing to a conversation. It sounds like you're listing a series of arguments and it looks like this:

1) Gangsters are cowards
2) *Insert argument*
3) Gangsters are cowards
....
7) Gangsters are cowards.

What I'm trying to say here is that "WE GOT IT! THANK YOU FOR YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ON GANGSTERS! Now can you kindly return to your arguments on why it is immoral to hire criminals for a legal and legitimate job so that one can create a quality product?

Again, dunno why you think I'd care if you like me or enjoy my comments. I've voiced my opinion on the people. You disagreed. What exactly do you want? If you're waiting for me to form an opinion you'll like, you're out of luck. I've already said several times I refuse to support active criminals.

I'll also note that telling me my personality isn't attractive "adds nothing to the conversation." Funny how things are only worth pointing out when other people do them, hmmm?

cool im glad, authenticity is important

Argument 1 agasint this:
remmeber what happened when rockstar went for realism? GTA4. yeah, i dredd this.
Argument 2 agasint this:
They may put the dialogue thats authentic there, but it would be like listening to gang members in The Wire - your hoping they shut up ASAP.
Argument 3 against this:
They are basically giving money to known criminals.
Argument 4 against this:
they are not voice actors and yet they voice act. we will have silent hill voice acting problems in a GTA game now.

Capcha: smellnig salt.
really? were throwing cocaine references already?

The way I see it, these people are doing honest work. And I've heard the voice acting in the gameplay vids so (assuming that was them) they put a lot of effort into it. So yeah, they have every right to be paid. What they intend to do after all this isn't really my concern - they earned that money fair and square. Good on them, I say.

As for Rockstar actively seeking criminals... that made me scratch my head a bit. That must be tough right? Even if they hired a specialist? I don't think they could really just put out an ad seeking professional gangsters. And it's not really going to lend any authenticity to the game any more so than a good voice actor would. It might even be worse (having authentic scripts, in my opinion, isn't a reasonable sacrifice for bad voice acting). I have a lot of faith in Rockstar though, GTA IV was a mis-step but other than that they've released nothing but top-tier quality. Those guys know what they're doing, and they do it best.

Can't wait to play this.

This thread is hilarious. Hold on, I'm off to make some popcorn.

This is really excessive.

For one, does it matter? Aside from a few gang terms I don't think actual gang members have some sort of authentic accent that separates them from the common people.

Secondly, gang members are just that. Gang members. You are putting the staff at risk by not only getting in contact with said people, but by paying them and having them in your studio. All it takes is the wrong member with the malicious intentions to have it blow up in your face.

Thirdly, contracts.

No way in hell would any gang member willingly do something so public like a GTA game, with out some sort of guaranteed protection from the police. Pretty sure some of them have done some pretty hefty crimes.

EDIT: For those defending Rockstar in providing legal employment, there is nothing WRONG with that notion.

However some of you people are seriously underestimating the damage gang members do to people in the local area. The people they are hiring can range from some petty store thief to someone who has actually taken the life of someone else and/or sold drugs that in turn ruined the lives of many.

BernardoOne:

Raggedstar:
Is that...is that even legal? I'm not sure.

It's one thing to have authentic delivery and feeling for people that have lived the life, but why not reformed gang members as mentioned previously?

Of all the things the non-gaming public can get pissed off at games about, this is one of the more valid ones (if it's true in the way I'm thinking). The violence and actions in this and all other games is fake. Fantasy. But this kinda steps passed that line and has a more direct impact on real life. GTA4 didn't force that kid or anyone else to shoot people, but where are the dollars from Rockstar going to after they pay these dudes?

I'm with the sentiment of the other posters. I hope this is a joke, lie, reformed gang members, some elaborate stunt, or something else that isn't being told in this story. Not like I was going to buy GTA5 anyways, but I don't think I'm ok with this.

Of course its legal, why the hell wouldnt it be? As far as I know, voice acting is a legal job.

He meant in terms of hiring suspect criminals of varying degrees of law breaking for video game voice acting.

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