Lesbian Marriage Too Tough For Batwoman, Authors Leave

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Nathan Josephs:
to all the people saying they did it to keep the status quo...you would never get an amazing storyline ever again if they always kept to the status quo.

I'm not saying it's a good move, I said I don't like DC. Just saying it's not a homophobic decision.

rhodo:
Bha.
Show me a male gay marriage with a major superhero, THEN I will be impressed.

Wether they do the Batwoman lesbian marriage or not... it's still fanservice for males.

Yeah that just shows me you've never read a single story involving Batwoman. She isn't some lipstick lesbian all dressed up sexy so that guys can go "yeah that's hot." Her sexuality is her sexuality, that is all. She's not fanservice and never has been since her first modern appearance in 2006.

Karloff:
Snip

As a by-the-by, a lot of people are saying that the issue wasn't lesbian marriage but any marriage - apparently DC's not very keen on any marriages at the moment, probably because they don't want to pull a "One More Day" in order to undo them later.

Assuming these Twitter accounts are legit, they seem to back up that claim.

https://twitter.com/GailSimone/status/375529913975341056

Ukomba:
Peter Parker, Mary Jane, One More Day

That is all.

Why would you remind me of this.

What is wrong with you.

By "put a lot of work into driving the story forward" they apparently mean "planned to cop out with the same old bit where characters get married, spouse gets killed, revenge ensues that's been done EVEN MORE OFTEN than every other lame recycled crap storyline we put into comics when we didn't bother to sober up until 5 minutes to submission".

What were they going to follow that bit of amazing creativity up with, the protagonist dying in a hailstorm of frivolous Jesus-related symbolism saving some orphans, then turn out to not actually be dead?

Normally I'm all for author creative control, but I'm pretty sure the editors made the right call cutting off this hackneyed derivative nonsense before it started. I know there's sort of a limited number of places you can take a superhero comic but come on, my five-year-old nephew can do better than the cheap-drama marriage crap off the top of his head.

(No one cares about it being a gay marriage, the character's already a lesbian and Gotham is literally an old name for New York, where gay marriage is perfectly legal and reasonably common. They care about it being a stupid, stale storyline before it even starts-- look at the other hackneyed nonsense they're complaining the editors wouldn't let 'em do.)

K12:

I assume that you will reverse your position when one of the other straight DC characters get married by the way?

No because that wouldn't prove that the reason Batwoman doesn't get married is because she's a lesbian. Wedon't know what DC has planned for the character.

Oh and the fact that even the writers have said it's the marriage thing DC have a problem with, not that it's a gay marriage should have been a hint. But then there's no time for five seconds of research when there's outrage to be had now is there? iterally the only thing in this entire story that points to homophobia is the headline of this article which is grossly sensationalist and should be changed.

Eh get back to me when Batwoman makes a deal with the devil to get out of her lesbian marriage.
Then tell me a story sucks.

my guess is this has nothing to do with it being a "lesbian" marriage and just being a marriage, none of the female leads in comics wind up married because it's too hard to explain how they have a new love interest 3 months later. marriage in comics constitutes something semi-imutable. think of all the characters that die only to be brought back 3 issues later they always want an opening to backpeddle with. marriage is harder to escape from (in comics) than death. i'm still disapointed in dc for retconning rene montoya out of being the question, that was an amazing story that gave her character such depth, her and batwoman being occasional lovers was cool too. this whole new 52 thing is just not working out very well.

Ukomba:
Peter Parker, Mary Jane, One More Day

That is all.

For those who don't know, Comics don't like to marry people anymore. It closes off certain avenues of stories that other creators might want to tell and while stupid, is probably the main reason DC said no. I seriously doubt it really had anything to do with them being lesbians, (even though that is controversial) They didn't allow it to happen because they didn't want a One More Day happening down the road, or having to retcon her marriage in some stupid way. It's stupid, and it is the reason we don't have Peter Parker married to Mary Jane, but it is the way things are.

The length DC will go to avoid marriages is hilarious, like...really...really hilarious.

You know Aquaman's Queen Mera?

Did you think they were married? You know, on the account of Aquaman referring to her as his wife at the beginning of the New 52, and being his Queen?

Nope. Not married in the slightest.

DC is a no marriage zone. They're like a combination of a 10 year old boy afraid of cooties, and a 45 year old bitterly divorced man.

Which....describes the majority of the writers and editors there but I'll let everyone else be the judge of that.

So let me get this straight. The two authors behind Batwoman have effectively rage-quit their job because DC Comics will not allow them to write the titular character into a narrative dead-end corner, at which point they will end their run and ride off into the sunset. No doubt leaving the next author with the truly thankless task of upsetting the status quo and making the title interesting once again.

But one mention of gay marriage and suddenly DC Comics is a queer-hatin' super villain. Riiight.

DC Comics editorial team has been running their business into the ground for a long long time. Marvel share of the market has been gaining at the expense of DC for along time despite some horrendous editorial mandates of their own. It seems that Marvel have accepted that 90% of their market are dedicated adult readers whilst DC clings to the idea that they have to be as generic and flat as possible to appeal to a mass market that doesn't exist. Every time they hire a great writer they immediately cripple what they can do so they may as well have just hired some hack for half the cost.

Their also not exactly helping their public image out after defending their decision to hire card carrying homophobe Orson Scott Card then refusing to allow one of their few LGBT character to get married. Even if I suspect their actually just a group of phenomenal idiots it doesn't bode well.

Nadia Castle:
DC Comics editorial team has been running their business into the ground for a long long time. Marvel share of the market has been gaining at the expense of DC for along time despite some horrendous editorial mandates of their own. It seems that Marvel have accepted that 90% of their market are dedicated adult readers whilst DC clings to the idea that they have to be as generic and flat as possible to appeal to a mass market that doesn't exist. Every time they hire a great writer they immediately cripple what they can do so they may as well have just hired some hack for half the cost.

Their also not exactly helping their public image out after defending their decision to hire card carrying homophobe Orson Scott Card then refusing to allow one of their few LGBT character to get married. Even if I suspect their actually just a group of phenomenal idiots it doesn't bode well.

The title is misleading. (Although DC is stupid) They aren't refusing to let it happen because she is gay, they are refusing to let it happen because it means that she is written into a corner, and DC is afraid of marriage like it has the cooties. It's the main reason why Aquaman isn't 'technically' married to his queen. Its fucking ridiculous.

jaymiechan:
well, when you can say DC wants to be more stagnant that freaking Archie Comics, you know it is a sad day.

They did marriage multiple times before. Archie was late on the ball on that one.

It almost destroyed DC. People wanted to see heroes, not married with children but also with super powers.

So now marriage is a dirty word for gimmicky story line that will be nullified very soon.

That's so bizarre.

So sex and violence are okay because they are temporary.

And death and marriage aren't because they potentially longer and hard to write your way out of. When put like that I see their issue, however I still think its a lame and says a lot about why DC and Marvel kinda suck creatively and while they hire great artists and writers, I have much less time for most of their works.

They want to expand the audience but yet still restrict it. Good luck with more of those half hearted attempts, DC.

Zhukov:
Batwoman is into chicks?

I did not know this.

Then again, I didn't really know there was a Batwoman. I thought she got paralyzed... or something? Or is this one of them alternate universe things?

Eh, comics.

Her paralysis was retconned a few years ago. But I'm sure there're 20 other alternate universes where she's fat, dead or riding a dinosaur. Because comics!

Spot1990:

K12:

I assume that you will reverse your position when one of the other straight DC characters get married by the way?

No because that wouldn't prove that the reason Batwoman doesn't get married is because she's a lesbian. Wedon't know what DC has planned for the character.

Oh and the fact that even the writers have said it's the marriage thing DC have a problem with, not that it's a gay marriage should have been a hint. But then there's no time for five seconds of research when there's outrage to be had now is there? iterally the only thing in this entire story that points to homophobia is the headline of this article which is grossly sensationalist and should be changed.

I'm not going to repeat what I said in my last comment. I think the idea that a gay marriage would get quashed for homophobic reasons is far from being a big leap. A skimming of the article and subject suggest homophobia but in this case there is another dumb reason for it. Fine, I said I was wrong and the article was misleading, thank you for correcting me.

This definitely hasn't made me want to get into comic books though. I'm already put off by the complete lack of evolution and the prevailing status quo (plus random slate cleaning and retconning) but if they have such stupid arbitrary rules like "no weddings" then that's just daft.

K12:

Spot1990:

K12:

I assume that you will reverse your position when one of the other straight DC characters get married by the way?

No because that wouldn't prove that the reason Batwoman doesn't get married is because she's a lesbian. Wedon't know what DC has planned for the character.

Oh and the fact that even the writers have said it's the marriage thing DC have a problem with, not that it's a gay marriage should have been a hint. But then there's no time for five seconds of research when there's outrage to be had now is there? iterally the only thing in this entire story that points to homophobia is the headline of this article which is grossly sensationalist and should be changed.

I'm not going to repeat what I said in my last comment. I think the idea that a gay marriage would get quashed for homophobic reasons is far from being a big leap. A skimming of the article and subject suggest homophobia but in this case there is another dumb reason for it. Fine, I said I was wrong and the article was misleading, thank you for correcting me.

This definitely hasn't made me want to get into comic books though. I'm already put off by the complete lack of evolution and the prevailing status quo (plus random slate cleaning and retconning) but if they have such stupid arbitrary rules like "no weddings" then that's just daft.

I think I see the problem. You're underestimating how stupid DC are. It's actually kind of impressive. It's like that one kid you went to school with. You want to stop him but honestly there's a part of you that wants to see how much paste he can actually eat. DC are the company that turned their one unnatractive major female character into a size 0 model in the reboot. Seriously their no marriage rule is so strong they'd forego lesbians to sell comics to teenagers who can't get around the parental blocks on the internet in favour of just not marrying people. I mean this is the same company that wants pictures of Harley Quinn killing herself in the nude.

Hey guys, I would really like to know how a wedding story can actually be made interesting.

Thus far I've heard a reasonable arguement on DC's behalf saying that a marriage could write a character into a corner.

On the other hand, I've heard arguments against this decision are
Homophobia accusations,
DC has a history of avoiding marriage (to pander to sex crazed boys)

No, Seriously. Justify to me a wedding story without the handicap of waving minority status flags.

I'm just thinking it's not what it looks like on the surface and what the ever so progressive youth of today are calling out on exactly lol...might be something more simple like "eh, we just don't want to deal with another freaking wedding" bit from the execs, but that's already been said I think. Bet the folk who quit are happy to have the Internet at their back though. At any rate, this does give DC even more press than a lesbian wedding. They probably need it anyway lol

Rex Fallout:

Ukomba:
Peter Parker, Mary Jane, One More Day

That is all.

For those who don't know, Comics don't like to marry people anymore. It closes off certain avenues of stories that other creators might want to tell and while stupid, is probably the main reason DC said no. I seriously doubt it really had anything to do with them being lesbians, (even though that is controversial) They didn't allow it to happen because they didn't want a One More Day happening down the road, or having to retcon her marriage in some stupid way. It's stupid, and it is the reason we don't have Peter Parker married to Mary Jane, but it is the way things are.

Exactly so. One more day is one of the best known examples, but super hero marriages are always doomed. It's not always as dramatic as that. Superman's marriage was quietly retconed in the 2011 relaunch. There are some other bad ones, like Roy Harper, who's marriage was not only broken up, but his daughter from that marriage was killed.

So this just seems more like an anti-marriage thing than an anti gay thing.

Towels:
Hey guys, I would really like to know how a wedding story can actually be made interesting.

Thus far I've heard a reasonable arguement on DC's behalf saying that a marriage could write a character into a corner.

On the other hand, I've heard arguments against this decision are
Homophobia accusations,
DC has a history of avoiding marriage (to pander to sex crazed boys)

No, Seriously. Justify to me a wedding story without the handicap of waving minority status flags.

Character Growth.

Rex Fallout:

Towels:
Hey guys, I would really like to know how a wedding story can actually be made interesting.

Thus far I've heard a reasonable arguement on DC's behalf saying that a marriage could write a character into a corner.

On the other hand, I've heard arguments against this decision are
Homophobia accusations,
DC has a history of avoiding marriage (to pander to sex crazed boys)

No, Seriously. Justify to me a wedding story without the handicap of waving minority status flags.

Character Growth.

Weddings are pretty boring character growth events, if you ask me. Rife with cliche after cliche. But I see that's just my opinion.

I seriously want to be won over on this. I'm a bitter person who needs to see the value of a True Love Forever Wedding in comic books.

Towels:
Hey guys, I would really like to know how a wedding story can actually be made interesting.

Thus far I've heard a reasonable arguement on DC's behalf saying that a marriage could write a character into a corner.

On the other hand, I've heard arguments against this decision are
Homophobia accusations,
DC has a history of avoiding marriage (to pander to sex crazed boys)

No, Seriously. Justify to me a wedding story without the handicap of waving minority status flags.

Surely it doesn't work that way round. Wouldn't you have to justify a "no weddings" general rule rather than justify how a character getting married can add to a story.

I agree than the marriages which serve purely to be a future tear-jerker when the hero's partner gets horribly murdered is annoying but an "absolutely no weddings" rule is a really dumb rule.

Criticise bad story lines but arbitrary rules lie this because of bad handling of previous story lines is not the way to make good fiction.

Spot1990:

K12:

Spot1990:
No because that wouldn't prove that the reason Batwoman doesn't get married is because she's a lesbian. Wedon't know what DC has planned for the character.

Oh and the fact that even the writers have said it's the marriage thing DC have a problem with, not that it's a gay marriage should have been a hint. But then there's no time for five seconds of research when there's outrage to be had now is there? iterally the only thing in this entire story that points to homophobia is the headline of this article which is grossly sensationalist and should be changed.

I'm not going to repeat what I said in my last comment. I think the idea that a gay marriage would get quashed for homophobic reasons is far from being a big leap. A skimming of the article and subject suggest homophobia but in this case there is another dumb reason for it. Fine, I said I was wrong and the article was misleading, thank you for correcting me.

This definitely hasn't made me want to get into comic books though. I'm already put off by the complete lack of evolution and the prevailing status quo (plus random slate cleaning and retconning) but if they have such stupid arbitrary rules like "no weddings" then that's just daft.

I think I see the problem. You're underestimating how stupid DC are. It's actually kind of impressive. It's like that one kid you went to school with. You want to stop him but honestly there's a part of you that wants to see how much paste he can actually eat. DC are the company that turned their one unnatractive major female character into a size 0 model in the reboot. Seriously their no marriage rule is so strong they'd forego lesbians to sell comics to teenagers who can't get around the parental blocks on the internet in favour of just not marrying people. I mean this is the same company that wants pictures of Harley Quinn killing herself in the nude.

I'm even starting to get sick of Batman (and how much people like his broody rich guy thing) and that's the only DC stuff that I really enjoyed...

All in all not a fan

The more popular the comic book character the less likely the editor will allow them to marry, cause we all know, once you marry all drama stops.

Isn't DC against marriage, period? Like, all of it? I mean this seems a bit like if aliens invaded and started killing everyone and get called racists because they happen to kill black people...along with everyone else.

Still, a shitty move tho. Artistic freedom of expression and all, shouldn't have messed with it.

Towels:

Rex Fallout:

Towels:
Hey guys, I would really like to know how a wedding story can actually be made interesting.

Thus far I've heard a reasonable arguement on DC's behalf saying that a marriage could write a character into a corner.

On the other hand, I've heard arguments against this decision are
Homophobia accusations,
DC has a history of avoiding marriage (to pander to sex crazed boys)

No, Seriously. Justify to me a wedding story without the handicap of waving minority status flags.

Character Growth.

Weddings are pretty boring character growth events, if you ask me. Rife with cliche after cliche. But I see that's just my opinion.

I seriously want to be won over on this. I'm a bitter person who needs to see the value of a True Love Forever Wedding in comic books.

It isn't so much the wedding itself as what comes after. It allows for far larger growth. Are they going to have children? What kind of mother/father are they going to be? Are they going to start aging (comics) is so,will their son/daughter replace them? How will they raise their children, etc.

Legion:

Zhukov:
Batwoman is into chicks?

I did not know this.

Then again, I didn't really know there was a Batwoman. I thought she got paralyzed... or something? Or is this one of them alternate universe things?

Eh, comics.

I am not into comics either but my understanding is that there is Batwoman, who is the character being referred to, and several Batgirls.

I know one of the Batgirls is the police commissioners daughters from playing the Arkham games (she was shot and paralysed, hence the wheelchair) and I know of one other called Cassandra Cain, but beyond that I am clueless.

Legion, you're thinking of Batgirl, Barbara Gordon. She was shot by Joker in a comic called The Killing Joke, but Gail Simone brought her back (DC also have a thing for not allowing other Batgirls to come back since the 2000s or so) and had her healed up by "Technology not available to the common person".

OT: Wow. Just... wow DC. Round of applause for you there, you fucking ingrates.

Rex Fallout:

Towels:
Hey guys, I would really like to know how a wedding story can actually be made interesting.

Thus far I've heard a reasonable arguement on DC's behalf saying that a marriage could write a character into a corner.

On the other hand, I've heard arguments against this decision are
Homophobia accusations,
DC has a history of avoiding marriage (to pander to sex crazed boys)

No, Seriously. Justify to me a wedding story without the handicap of waving minority status flags.

Character Growth.

You're mistaking marriage for divorce. Though I might be interested in picking up a Batwoman comic about lesbian divoce. That might actually be amusing. A judge having to decide who to screw over out of 2 women.

Also these behind the craft advertising panels really need to go. Its not even a good demographic for there product. Not that its good at showing what said product is.

Everyone seems to think that this is about paranoia of starting a controversy, but is it so far fetched to think that maybe the authors just genuinely don't feel that the content is fitting for the story and the characters they're developing?

I don't know if this was because DC is homophobic (I doubt it - if they were, would they have made her a lesbian in the first place?) or a general anti-wedding thing... but either way, this looks REALLY bad for DC. Their rep is going to take another beating due to this and the Harley Quinn art contest clusterfuck

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