Hotline Miami 2 Devs Remove "Rape Scene" From Demo

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This defense of rape's worse than murder is really bad. I'm sorry but it's so fully of sensationalism and appeal to emotion.

Maiev Shadowsong:
You will probably never murder someone. You will probably never know a murder victim. You will know a rape survivor. You will probably see multiple rape survivors every day.

A. You don't know that
B. Who cares? Being more prevalent doesn't make it worse.

Maiev Shadowsong:

For any medium of engagement to handle rape, it needs to be done with extreme care and consideration. It's not a check box, it's not bullet point, it's not a tool, it's not an effect and it's not a scene. It is intensely profound.

You remind me of someone who said video games shouldn't talk about racism because "racism isn't a game"!

Hopefully they will leave it in the full game and not just cave to appease a few whiners who probably wont even buy the game to begin with.

TiberiusEsuriens:
If you want your game to have an edgy character arc, try not including something like rape because it is essentially mainstream now.

Until I can rape pedestrians in a sandbox crime game at my leisure it's not mainstream. I mean if it was mainstream it wouldn't spark a lot of controversy.

wulf3n:

Warachia:
but one (in his opinion) is worse than the other.

Which is how he trivializes the issue, by comparing non comparable things and decide one is worse than another

Warachia:
Oh, you meant plight of the victims relatives/friends, you really should have said that, instead of just talking about the victims.

They are victims.

That's a comparison, not trivialization.

They weren't the ones murdered, so they aren't the victims.

Father Time:

Warachia:

Father Time:
So why not just have a warning before the demo starts and leave it in?

Because it gives off the wrong message/impression about what's in the game/what the game is about, if it goes against what they want to bring across, then they would be smart to remove it.

"Warning: contains a brief scene of rape" wouldn't do it?

No, because if there's no consequences are context for it then it gives some people the impression that the game is condoning rape, and since they don't want to give that impression, they are changing it.

Olikar:

Warachia:

They never had to make that choice at all, they could have ignored the complaints, but because they care about what their game says and they want to bring across the right tone/message they are interested in how people interpret it

I don't think it has anything to do with tone, I think they simply didn't want to deal with a shitstorm.

Then that's your opinion, if you are going to ignore what they've said and make up your own mind then I don't have anything else to say.

Actually that should be the main issue at hand.
Anything can be sexist if you wish to interpret it that way.
Maybe but if they chose not to change it the claims of sexism wouldn't be given any validity from that.

If you show off any gender purely for the enjoyment of the opposite gender then it will be sexist, that's not an interpretation, the reason that the intent isn't important is because I'm not analysing the creative process, just the final product.

Their issue is if the rape is presented as something the main character does and gets away with without any consequences,

There are no consequences for that at all because he didn't actually do it, it's fictional in the context of the game.

I know, but in the fictional consequence that we have weren't given context for nothing bad happens to him for raping the woman, making it seem like it's condoning it.

No there are non consequences at all for your murders in the first HM.

They don't you go after them.

I think you're remembering things incorrectly, that doesn't happen.

But this is not a consequence of the actions of your character. (also depending on how you interpret the game your character isn't even shot)

They attack you with vans smashing into their own buildings trying to get to you.

The files you find certainly state that they had ties to the Russian mafia, not to mention the police kill you on sight in the mission where they show up but they don't do anything to the mafia.

I'm pretty sure the man with the gun shooting at you then you later showing up with a head wound and requiring surgery to get fragments of metal out of your skull makes it pretty clear that you were shot, not to mention the police reports saying that he has ties to the mafia, and the fact that the cleaners specifically say that they don't do anything bad to the people who don't do what they say, they just make threats, so they certainly didn't send the assassin after you.

It's a bit depressing to see a bunch of people claiming that murder is a lot worse than murder (going so far as to say 100 rapes are still better) based upon nothing other than "at least they're alive." Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most of them have probably never been raped and don't consider themselves at risk for being raped?

Also,

Rutskarn:
Somehow I know how this is going to play out.

"Hey, look, I liked Hotline Miami a lot, but when I saw the demo...it brought back a lot of horrible things, alright? It made me relive the worst day of my life. I just thought you should know."

"Oh, shit, we didn't want to do that. I mean, we're fucking game makers. We want people to have fun, not relive trauma. Let's see if we can maybe rework it so it's less horrible."

Later:

Internet Hate Brigade: "WTFOMG TEH CENSORSHIPZ! STFU RAPE SURVIVORS, STOP DISCUSSING WHAT THINGS ARE LIKE FOR YOU"

The Prophet has spoken and their words were true!

Warachia:

Lunncal:
The developers created the scene and added it to their game (and demo). Lots of people immediately decided the scene was offensive, taking it completely the wrong way (in a way the developers didn't intend), and complained about it. The developers then had to remove it, in order to stop people from taking offense. As I explained in the post above, I have nothing against the artists making that choice, but I don't think it was a choice they should have had to make in the first place.

They never had to make that choice at all, they could have ignored the complaints, but because they care about what their game says and they want to bring across the right tone/message they are interested in how people interpret it, and yeah, I know you say the same in the next paragraph that I quote, but you really should stop using sentences like "the developers then had to remove it", instead use something like "the developers then chose to remove it", at least that way you'll still bring across the point that they changed it because of fan feedback.

Well, as you've just said I did explain myself immediately afterwards. I don't really see any need to change the wording, considering my meaning is elaborated upon in the very next sentence.

Let's look at a game I really hate that's been out for a long time called Metroid Other M, just looking at how the game is presented makes it look like a very sexist game because every single time the main character isn't wearing armour the camera always frames her T&A just right so that they can show them off, sometimes both in a single shot, and sometimes they're highlighted with overhead lights, whether or not they intended the game to be sexist isn't an issue, it certainly comes off as sexist, and if it wasn't there original intention then it would have been wise to change how it was presented.

How this relates to Hotline Miami is the main character is presented as going to rape a woman, the director comes on screen and gives directions for how the woman can act to be more helpless, this can give some people the impression that the game condones rape, and since that was absolutely not their original intention, they're wise to remove it until we have the proper context for it.

Why? It's a demo, you're not going to have much context for the game at all, presumably. There's plenty of equally uncontextualised murder in that demo too, as there are in many others, and other full games for that matter. I don't see why that's a problem, and if it is somehow a problem, I don't see why that only applies to the rape scene specifically.

In retrospect I probably shouldn't have used the word "forced" like that. They could have just left it there and endured the complaints and offense caused, I suppose. That doesn't change my opinion that the complaints and offense were completely unwarranted and kind of disturbing though.

The issue I have is that people were so unnecessarily affected by it in the first place. This is a game about a psychotic murderer doing horrible things (assuming it's anything like its predecessor), if you are the type to be offended then this is not the game for you. A society that claims brutal violence and murder is fine to depict in media but rape is too far is fundamentally wrong as far as I'm concerned.

Their issue is if the rape is presented as something the main character does and gets away with without any consequences, if a character raped another, and this was a major plot point (as in people kept coming after you or it had serious consequences) then it would be different, but the demo doesn't show any of that.

Let's look at the first game, you play a psychotic masked murderer, but there's consequences for all of the people you kill, the mafia comes after you, and even buys out the police to come after you, eventually your girlfriend is shot, and so are you, if you completed all of the missions with no negative consequences then people could certainly be upset at it, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with them.

Ah, maybe this where our viewpoints are fundamentally different, then. I absolutely would disagree with those hypothetical people. Why does a game have to moralize with these negative karmic repercussions to rape or any other immoral action? That's not to say a developer shouldn't do that if they want to, but to say that it is wrong if they don't is silly. In real life bad people sometimes get away with doing bad things. That's just a fact, and I have no issue with it happening in media. I don't think that someone getting away with rape in a game would imply support of the action by the developer, either.

Also, people getting upset at rape, but not at murder, isn't a double standard, if you want to know why people feel the way they do, just look up the Jimquisition episode where he talks about both.

I've watched it, and it's as inane as all the other similar arguments I've heard on it. I watch and like the Jimquisition show, but that's one viewpoint of his I entirely disagree with. It's essentially a list of reasons why rape is horrible, but of course rape is horrible, it's even horrible in a few ways murder isn't. I could just as easily come up with my own list of (completely meaningless) reasons why murder is worse than rape, though, it doesn't really change anything.

Then you should take it as a chance to see why other people see it as worse than murder, you don't have to agree with him, you just need to understand the opposing viewpoint. Incidentally, I'm not trying to convince you to join me in this argument, just trying to get you to see where some people are coming from.

I understand the viewpoint, I just think it's idiotic, and I don't like how it affects how artists go about their work. The whole idea is most likely a remnant of the weird "sex is eeeeevvvvviiiilllll" vibe still lingering around throughout society, in my opinion. I'll probably continue to complain and argue about it, just as people with that viewpoint will probably continue to complain and argue when it's depicted in video games.

Lunncal:

Warachia:
Let's look at a game I really hate that's been out for a long time called Metroid Other M, just looking at how the game is presented makes it look like a very sexist game because every single time the main character isn't wearing armour the camera always frames her T&A just right so that they can show them off, sometimes both in a single shot, and sometimes they're highlighted with overhead lights, whether or not they intended the game to be sexist isn't an issue, it certainly comes off as sexist, and if it wasn't there original intention then it would have been wise to change how it was presented.

How this relates to Hotline Miami is the main character is presented as going to rape a woman, the director comes on screen and gives directions for how the woman can act to be more helpless, this can give some people the impression that the game condones rape, and since that was absolutely not their original intention, they're wise to remove it until we have the proper context for it.

Why? It's a demo, you're not going to have much context for the game at all, presumably. There's plenty of equally uncontextualised murder in that demo too, as there are in many others, and other full games for that matter. I don't see why that's a problem, and if it is somehow a problem, I don't see why that only applies to the rape scene specifically.

Why it's important is because impressions are important, the demo is supposed to give you an impression of the finished product, according to them they gave the wrong impression, so they decided to change that.

Ah, maybe this where our viewpoints are fundamentally different, then. I absolutely would disagree with those hypothetical people. Why does a game have to moralize with these negative karmic repercussions to rape or any other immoral action? That's not to say a developer shouldn't do that if they want to, but to say that it is wrong if they don't is silly. In real life bad people sometimes get away with doing bad things. That's just a fact, and I have no issue with it happening in media. I don't think that someone getting away with rape in a game would imply support of the action by the developer, either.

It has to somewhat moralize it because otherwise the game is just blatantly encouraging the murders, of course this isn't going to encourage real life murders, but it's still an issue with some people and I wouldn't be able to disagree with it.

I'm not saying the developer supports it, I'm saying that the game does, and since the developer doesn't support it they decided to change it, I don't see why this is an issue.

I understand the viewpoint, I just think it's idiotic, and I don't like how it affects how artists go about their work. The whole idea is most likely a remnant of the weird "sex is eeeeevvvvviiiilllll" vibe still lingering around throughout society, in my opinion. I'll probably continue to complain and argue about it, just as people with that viewpoint will probably continue to complain and argue when it's depicted in video games.

Fair enough, if you get where the people are coming from then I don't really have too much more to say.

Warachia:

That's a comparison, not trivialization.

Trivialisation may have been too strong of a word and incorrect, but its certainly disrespectful to the victims of one to say that the pain of the other is worse

Warachia:
They weren't the ones murdered, so they aren't the victims.

A victim is anyone that is adversely affected by a crime.

wulf3n:

Warachia:

That's a comparison, not trivialization.

Trivialisation may have been too strong of a word and incorrect, but its certainly disrespectful to the victims of one to say that the pain of the other is worse

Warachia:
They weren't the ones murdered, so they aren't the victims.

A victim is anyone that is adversely affected by a crime.

While I certainly don't share either of those views, I'm not going to argue since at least now I know where you're coming from, and since this is now mostly a difference of opinion.

I'm guessing it was mostly people who didn't play the first game who had the issues.

Oh, and we should also take rape out of books, movies,and such......Prime-Time Television.............because screw narrative......Also bad things happen, alot, all over the world. If you don't like it because of reasons that's your thing, leave my thing out of it.

I'm not quite sure I understand - we commit murder on a constant basis in video games and frequently witness it as well - so why don't we care about offending gamers who have witnessed murders in their lives? In fact, many gamers who have killed people in real life (soldiers) play games where they kill people and witness murder and are as fine with it as people who have never killed or witnessed murder.

There's no honesty in saying that murder is non-offensive while rape is offensive. While I would prefer a world where neither event occurred, any sane human being prefers rape to murder, assuming that "none of the above" is off the table.

The common reply is that we're not REALLY killing people when we "kill people" in video games. Well duh, and we're not really raping them either, of course.

Man, people have a terrible knee jerk reaction when they hear something is getting changed in a game, automatically calling out "CENSORSHIP! THIS IS CENSORSHIP!"

This is NOT CENSORSHIP. This is the creative team taking two seconds out of the goddamn DEMO for chrisake. They are changing the scene in the game because it was not eliciting the reaction they wanted from gamers, something designers do ALL THE TIME when making a game.

And for some of you saying that "If you kill someone in a game, then you shouldn't be freaking out if you rape someone in a game!",you act like the gaming audience hadn't played thousands of hours of games with violent content. Violence is something we are NUMB to, almost nothing shocks us anymore. But rape is barely touched on in games, so of course they will elicit more of a reaction.

Its only censorship when the government or a corporation goes in and says its illegal to say that. When a creative team goes and changes something about a game, its called EDITING.

Warachia:

If you show off any gender purely for the enjoyment of the opposite gender then it will be sexist,

Are you going to back that up or just assert it?

the reason that the intent isn't important is because I'm not analysing the creative process, just the final product.

Sexism implies intent, you can only say the depiction of a certain character is sexist if there is clear intent for it to be sexist.

I know, but in the fictional consequence that we have weren't given context for nothing bad happens to him for raping the woman, making it seem like it's condoning it.

No it wouldn't, at most you could say the film within the game is condoning rape (even that is a dubious claim though)

They attack you with vans smashing into their own buildings trying to get to you.

That could be just back up for the guys in the building, there's nothing to suggest they are arriving simply because Jacket is there.

The files you find certainly state that they had ties to the Russian mafia, not to mention the police kill you on sight in the mission where they show up but they don't do anything to the mafia.

That's because all the Mafia surrender and drop their weapons. Also I don't recall any file where it states the police have a connection with the Mafia.

I'm pretty sure the man with the gun shooting at you then you later showing up with a head wound and requiring surgery to get fragments of metal out of your skull makes it pretty clear that you were shot,

It's the opinion of many fans (me included) that Jacket wasn't shot but rather in the seemingly paradoxical fight scene with Biker (in which both seem to win depending on the person recalling it) he is actually the one who loses but doesn't die and is put into a coma by his head injury (him being shot is imagined while his girlfriend was actually shot). There's a lot of clues for this if you look around a bit, the three men wearing the masks (who some people take to be your subconscious) all refer to your actions as if they occurred in the past tense as though you where reliving them, after your fight with Biker things go really bizarre (seeing corpses in random areas for example) but after he wakes from the Coma it goes back to normal (or as normal as HM can get) suggesting they where imagined.

not to mention the police reports saying that he has ties to the mafia, and the fact that the cleaners specifically say that they don't do anything bad to the people who don't do what they say, they just make threats, so they certainly didn't send the assassin after you.

Except that not only does he explicitly state he was involved with janitors it's very heavily implied in the file he murdered your girlfriend because of Janitors.

...suspects claim to have been threatened into...
...instructed to kill by messages on their...

Perhaps they lied?

EDIT:

DrunkenElfMage:

Its only censorship when the government or a corporation goes in and says its illegal to say that.

Perhaps you should look up what actually constitutes censorship before making such ridiculous claims.

Olikar:

Warachia:

If you show off any gender purely for the enjoyment of the opposite gender then it will be sexist,

Are you going to back that up or just assert it?

It's for the enjoyment of the other gender and the detriment of the target. It being discriminatory is what makes it sexist: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sexist

the reason that the intent isn't important is because I'm not analysing the creative process, just the final product.

Sexism implies intent, you can only say the depiction of a certain character is sexist if there is clear intent for it to be sexist.

Not if I'm analysing the product and not the creators, I'm looking at it on its own merits, not what they intended.
Also, Sexism in no way implies intent.

I know, but in the fictional consequence that we have weren't given context for nothing bad happens to him for raping the woman, making it seem like it's condoning it.

No it wouldn't, at most you could say the film within the game is condoning rape (even that is a dubious claim though)

The demo as of now IS the film, so by your own logic it could condone rape

They attack you with vans smashing into their own buildings trying to get to you.

That could be just back up for the guys in the building, there's nothing to suggest they are arriving simply because Jacket is there.

Your own statement is contradictory, you're saying the backup is there with no purpose, they are backup arriving because you're in the building, not because they just wanted to smash through the door for no reason.

The files you find certainly state that they had ties to the Russian mafia, not to mention the police kill you on sight in the mission where they show up but they don't do anything to the mafia.

That's because all the Mafia surrender and drop their weapons. Also I don't recall any file where it states the police have a connection with the Mafia.

If you have no weapons they still kill you, they don't bother arresting or detaining the mafia in any way.
You later argue interpretations, my interpretation with the sentence fragments was that they did buy them off.

I'm pretty sure the man with the gun shooting at you then you later showing up with a head wound and requiring surgery to get fragments of metal out of your skull makes it pretty clear that you were shot,

It's the opinion of many fans (me included) that Jacket wasn't shot but rather in the seemingly paradoxical fight scene with Biker (in which both seem to win depending on the person recalling it) he is actually the one who loses but doesn't die and is put into a coma by his head injury (him being shot is imagined while his girlfriend was actually shot). There's a lot of clues for this if you look around a bit, the three men wearing the masks (who some people take to be your subconscious) all refer to your actions as if they occurred in the past tense as though you where reliving them, after your fight with Biker things go really bizarre (seeing corpses in random areas for example) but after he wakes from the Coma it goes back to normal (or as normal as HM can get) suggesting they where imagined.

I'm not going to argue different interpretations, but then how did your girlfriend die?

not to mention the police reports saying that he has ties to the mafia, and the fact that the cleaners specifically say that they don't do anything bad to the people who don't do what they say, they just make threats, so they certainly didn't send the assassin after you.

Except that not only does he explicitly state he was involved with janitors it's very heavily implied in the file he murdered your girlfriend because of Janitors.

He states that he was following the messages on the phone, it's never stated that the janitors sent him after you (if anything it's the opposite), and how do you explain that "ties to the russian mafia" bit?

...suspects claim to have been threatened into...
...instructed to kill by messages on their...

Perhaps they lied?

Why? They have no reason to, when you talk to them, they say that the threats alone are enough to get people to do what they want, and that they don't take any action against those who go against their orders (biker is a special case since he is hunting them down).

Maybe we should stop arguing about how we interpret the games though, let's look at what we do know, you play a murderer, and no matter your interpretation things certainly don't go well for him.

DrunkenElfMage:

This is NOT CENSORSHIP. This is the creative team taking two seconds out of the goddamn DEMO for chrisake. They are changing the scene in the game because it was not eliciting the reaction they wanted from gamers,

Technically we don't even know how if its being removed from the final game. All we know is its being removed from the demonstration shown at a public event.

I don't think video games are ready for the subject of Rape. There is just too much personal emotional nuance.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Yuuki:

Maiev Shadowsong:
That's the artists' choice. People spoke their mind and they decided to change things. For selling more copies and making more money, or because they agreed with the backlash. If they believed they were right, they wouldn't change it.

We'll see if it's in the final game.

In fact I believe even if they kept it in the final game, almost nobody will bring it up because the "hotline maiami rape scene omfg" bandwagon will have long passed. That's how these things tend to work, knee-jerk reaction bandwagons.
Golden example: Lara Croft "rape scene". MASSIVE knee-jerk reaction when it was shown in the trailer. Once it was released as part of the full game, nobody gave a fuck. I repeat: nobody gave a single fuck. Bandwagon for that game had already passed. Toot toot.

Congratulations on being dismissive towards the concerns of rape victims and attempting to label their opinions "bandwagons."

here is a story.

A guy is doing a webcomic, mainly about a custom D&D setting, but it's as gory as it could be, people getting limbs chopped off, melting, being eaten by demons, ect. what normally happens in various D&D games.

He introduced a character a couple of years in, whom it is implied that while being a slave to a city guard captain, she was repeatedly raped, she for a long while couldn't let anyone touch her, not even the guy who killed the guard captain [who he claimed was his hero] after he found out about the implied rape.

Of course, they sort of got along later on and it's implied they are starting to form a romance between the two.

Now, not everyone, but a lot of readers got up in arms about how he was "trivializing rape", and it got so bad he finally told why he included that in the comic.

When his mom was 16, she was held for a few days being tortured and raped, she told her son about it later on before he started the comic, and in fact the entire sub-plot is about how his mom dealt with being a rape survivor. She did get into a good relationship shortly after her ordeal, she didn't let it consume her to the point that everything reminded her of the rape.

In fact, she was the one who asked her son to put it in the comic, she even laughs at people who claim it's being trivialized.

Yet that does not stop people from writing hate mail even though it is a story based on a real person dealing with what had happened to her.

So, yes, this is just another knee-jerk reaction by people that more than likely have never been raped before, with so little information about what it was supposed to be a part of.

Remember the "rape scene" in tomb raider? yea, that wasn't even a rape scene. I bet the people that said it was felt really, really stupid after it was released.

Personal emotional nuance? Game developers got around "personal emotional nuance" with respect to murder by simply ignoring it - game protagonists are soulless husks who treat murder victims like a farmer with a scythe treats his wheat fields.

Why suddenly are game protagonists, currently soulless husks, supposed to be all squeamish and sensitive about rape? Consider the Dragonborn, covered in tissue, blood, and bone fragments from his latest crop of death-making approaching a lady, bowing gallantly, and saying "after you, madam". Fucking ridiculous.

Why not just make all the rape victims Nazi women, or demons. So, you know, they had it coming. It's what game developers currently do for murder, why not just extend that to rape?

Conan the Barbarian is at least honest. Kill the men and rape the women. If you're going to be a murderous psychopath who kills all the men then I'm not sure why the women are spared, unless the plan is to round them all up, make them your personal harem, and take turns with them. Technically that's not rape. Gamers call that "fun gameplay".

I don't think the scene should've been in the demo...Surely if it's plot relative then without context yeah it will seem shocking or terrible and no matter what will probably dredge up a memory or two, it's gonna make people uneasy but that's not a bad thing as long as it's done tastefully and well but it shouldn't have been in the demo.

The Plunk:
As usual...

Simulated brutal mass murder: No problemo!

Short rape scene: Basically as bad as the holocaust.

Thank fuck the social justice warriors didn't get it removed from the real game.

Well killing sprees like what happens in the game are pretty rare, sexual assault seems to be something that women have to worry about fairly regularly. I've known more than a few women who have been sexually assaulted and one who was gang raped in her own house by three guys who broke in. My point is that there is a sizable portion of the population that has to worry about it happening to them.

Worgen:

The Plunk:
As usual...

Simulated brutal mass murder: No problemo!

Short rape scene: Basically as bad as the holocaust.

Thank fuck the social justice warriors didn't get it removed from the real game.

Well killing sprees like what happens in the game are pretty rare, sexual assault seems to be something that women have to worry about fairly regularly. I've known more than a few women who have been sexually assaulted and one who was gang raped in her own house by three guys who broke in. My point is that there is a sizable portion of the population that has to worry about it happening to them.

And in many parts of the world, murder, death, etc. is an everyday worry and reality. It's not true for most of us here I'm guessing, but for many others, it's a painful reality. Hell, that's what my mom had to grow up with.

Rape and sexual assaults are not that common in gaming and when they are used, it is typically not done well or tastefully. But the only way for it to get to a better point is if artists are allowed to try. Now these guys pulled it of their own accord, but whether or not it was due to pressure is another point of debate.

DarthSka:

Worgen:

The Plunk:
As usual...

Simulated brutal mass murder: No problemo!

Short rape scene: Basically as bad as the holocaust.

Thank fuck the social justice warriors didn't get it removed from the real game.

Well killing sprees like what happens in the game are pretty rare, sexual assault seems to be something that women have to worry about fairly regularly. I've known more than a few women who have been sexually assaulted and one who was gang raped in her own house by three guys who broke in. My point is that there is a sizable portion of the population that has to worry about it happening to them.

And in many parts of the world, murder, death, etc. is an everyday worry and reality. It's not true for most of us here I'm guessing, but for many others, it's a painful reality. Hell, that's what my mom had to grow up with.

Rape and sexual assaults are not that common in gaming and when they are used, it is typically not done well or tastefully. But the only way for it to get to a better point is if artists are allowed to try. Now these guys pulled it of their own accord, but whether or not it was due to pressure is another point of debate.

I imagine the threat of rape in the parts of the world where murder is common, is much higher as well.

I would argue that there really isn't a way to tastefully have a rape or sexual assault, especially not by the player character. Which is what it seems like is the case in the game, I haven't played the demo, I was waiting for it to come out.

So, why did you put it in the demo, then, without the full context?

Rape can be handled well in stories, but doing something like that is not going to give me confidence you can do it.

The way they handled it was very good. Still it's a very simple fix for those complaining; don't play the game. The fault lays on the side of the player. It is their responsibility to avoid stimuli that may affect them negatively. No one should pander to them.

It occurs to me that almost all of the people dismissing the impact of rape are male.

Xiado:
I'd actually probably rather be raped than have someone steal something valuable, like my car. And trigger warning? An actual fucking trigger warning, are you serious? The only thing that makes rape more serious and makes it need more sensitive treatment it that it scares you more?

As a survivor of more rapes than I counted, I can promise you, if I could trade my fucking car to turn back time and not have any of that happen, I would do so without so much as a single moments of thought. There isn't a rape survivor alive that wouldn't give you every cent they have to undo those crimes. I am both appalled beyond belief and strangely glad for your ignorance, as you've clearly no understanding of rape in the slightest and must so obviously have the luck to have no reason to understand.

Maiev Shadowsong:
It occurs to me that almost all of the people dismissing the impact of rape are male.

A statement like that is never going to help your argument. Why would you post something like that?

Rape in movies? Ok!
Rape in literature? Ok!
Rape in live-action tv-shows *coughGameOfThronescough*? Ok!

Rape in video games? OH LAWD IN HEAVEN, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT, GAME DEVELOPER!!!

Caiphus:

Maiev Shadowsong:
It occurs to me that almost all of the people dismissing the impact of rape are male.

A statement like that is never going to help your argument. Why would you post something like that?

I noticed it. I commented on it.

Warachia:

Father Time:

Warachia:

Because it gives off the wrong message/impression about what's in the game/what the game is about, if it goes against what they want to bring across, then they would be smart to remove it.

"Warning: contains a brief scene of rape" wouldn't do it?

No, because if there's no consequences are context for it then it gives some people the impression that the game is condoning rape, and since they don't want to give that impression, they are changing it.

What are you trying to say? That some people will think it's an endorsement? Depiction isn't endorsement, and the people that think it is will probably be think they endorse assassins because of all the senseless murder, and they certainly won't remove that.

Warachia:

Actually that should be the main issue at hand.
Anything can be sexist if you wish to interpret it that way.
Maybe but if they chose not to change it the claims of sexism wouldn't be given any validity from that.

If you show off any gender purely for the enjoyment of the opposite gender then it will be sexist, that's not an interpretation,

Yes it is. Especially when it's a video game that exists purely for someone's enjoyment. Every character, every element is there purely for the sake of entertainment or artistic statement or whatever.

And beside with this logic strip clubs (with either gender) are automatically sexist

Maiev Shadowsong:

Caiphus:

Maiev Shadowsong:
It occurs to me that almost all of the people dismissing the impact of rape are male.

A statement like that is never going to help your argument. Why would you post something like that?

I noticed it. I commented on it.

Good for you. Still didn't help. I was inclined to be on your side until I saw that. And you probably don't care about that, but then why are you posting?

Caiphus:

Maiev Shadowsong:

Caiphus:

A statement like that is never going to help your argument. Why would you post something like that?

I noticed it. I commented on it.

Good for you. Still didn't help. I was inclined to be on your side until I saw that. And you probably don't care about that, but then why are you posting?

What? What's your problem exactly? I noticed a trend. I pointed out the trend. The end.

LifeCharacter:
It's a bit depressing to see a bunch of people claiming that murder is a lot worse than murder (going so far as to say 100 rapes are still better) based upon nothing other than "at least they're alive."

Why is it depressing that people don't share your opinion on this?

LifeCharacter:

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most of them have probably never been raped and don't consider themselves at risk for being raped?

Have you ever been murdered? No? Well maybe that has something to do with it.

LifeCharacter:

Also,

Rutskarn:
Somehow I know how this is going to play out.

"Hey, look, I liked Hotline Miami a lot, but when I saw the demo...it brought back a lot of horrible things, alright? It made me relive the worst day of my life. I just thought you should know."

"Oh, shit, we didn't want to do that. I mean, we're fucking game makers. We want people to have fun, not relive trauma. Let's see if we can maybe rework it so it's less horrible."

Later:

Internet Hate Brigade: "WTFOMG TEH CENSORSHIPZ! STFU RAPE SURVIVORS, STOP DISCUSSING WHAT THINGS ARE LIKE FOR YOU"

The Prophet has spoken and their words were true!

Ok show me one person who said "stop discussing what things are like for you".

Maiev Shadowsong:
What? What's your problem exactly? I noticed a trend. I pointed out the trend. The end.

I don't have a problem with it; you can write what you want. I was pointing out that it isn't smart to imply that people are disagreeing with you because they are male. That then tends to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Father Time:
snip

If the argument was "Rape is more likely to be a nasty trigger for people" instead of "Rape is worse than murder." How would you feel?

Because I'd be more inclined to believe the first, and less to believe the second.

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