Kojima On MGS 5's Quiet: I Meant Sexy, Not Erotic

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Kojima On MGS 5's Quiet: I Meant Sexy, Not Erotic

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"Industry full of man babies," Tweets 343i designer, in response to MGS 5 character design.

When Hideo Kojima said he wanted Metal Gear Solid 5 characters to be more erotic, he actually meant more sexy, according to a clarification Kojima made at a Los Angeles Q&A. Sexy, to Kojima, is something nebulous, that je ne sais quoi that comes with torn tights on a battlefield. "Sexy could be for guys, weapons, vehicles, it's really that characteristic," he said. Characters won't be talking much in Metal Gear Solid 5, so it's important to Kojima that they show who they are and what they're about in other ways. Even the weapons and vehicles are going to be "sexy," claims Kojima.

He was speaking at a round table with model Stefanie Joosten, who's to portray mute sniper Quiet in-game. "Of course, I was surprised to see Quiet's outfit at first," says Joosten. "I don't think I'm allowed to say a lot about this, but, well, Mr. Kojima has his reasons for deciding why Quiet [is] wearing what she's wearing. Players will just have to look forward to that."

Meanwhile over at 343i, makers of Halo, one designer decided to make his disapproval of the latest character designs known. "[Quiet's] character design is disgusting," David Ellis Tweeted. "Our industry should be better than this." He went on to say that it was "full of man babies" and that, while sexuality had a purpose in gaming - he cites Bayonetta as an example of sexuality used well - in his view the MGS 5 designs were lazy and exploitative.

The original Kojima comment that sparked this off was aimed at cosplayers. It will be interesting to see what cosplayers actually make of Quiet; no doubt we'll find out soon enough.

Source: Polygon

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Karloff:

"Industry full of man babies," Tweets 343i designer, in response to MGS 5 character design.

Characters won't be talking much in Metal Gear Solid 5

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I am gatting worried

Do people actually care about this stuff or are they simply seeking attention by trying to appear as politically correct as possible? Because I honestly couldn't care less. Does that make me a bad person?

Adam Jensen:
Do people actually care about this stuff or are they simply seeking attention by trying to appear as politically correct as possible? Because I honestly couldn't care less. Does that make me a bad person?

It makes you jaded. Like me.

Honestly, I loved Bayonetta, but to me the "sexuality" came off more.....creepy than anything else.

Plus, I don't think someone from 343i can talk, I SEE MASTER CHIEFS ARMOR BECOMING MORE SCANTILY CLAD!

Wait a minute though... Wasn't it the developers of the current Halo games that sexed up Cortana eventhough she it's a freaking computer program?

Anyway, The only female characters in MGS that aren't designed to be sexy are the Boss and Sunny. And even the latter got a creepy lolita upgrade in Revengeance. So nothing new on that front.

Adam Jensen:
Do people actually care about this stuff or are they simply seeking attention by trying to appear as politically correct as possible? Because I honestly couldn't care less. Does that make me a bad person?

I hate how people have gentrified that term to such an extent that someone can casually apply it to any discussion pertaining sexism, racism, homo/transphobia, et al. and the people who originally posed a complaint are immediately discredited as facile.

There's a very good reason to call Kojima out on his nonsense, because nobody should be exempt from criticism. And colour me skeptic as to what grand ulterior purpose Quiet's bikini top will play. Considering Ocelot was granted the benefit of a proper coat to deal with sunstroke and dehydration in the same trailer, I think the intention is rather transparent.

She's mute and scantily clad? Sounds like the perfect woman. XD (Joking (mostly)).

Not saying I disagree, but maybe when it comes to that Ellis guy, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

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Because of course the fucking AI needed prominent boobs. >.>

And is it really that much of a surprise that there's stuff like this in a Metal Gear game? I swear, the majority of people complaining about this stuff must have never played one before. This is a series, after all, that has had bare-ass naked Raiden in it.

Yeah huh...

343 talking about female character designs when they ramped up Cortana's sexuality with every installment..

And fuck David Ellis anyway. A developer should be able to make what THEY want. He is right though on one thing, the industry should be above calling each other names because they dont like other developers design decisions. Immature twat.

And note, I am not part of the industry and will readily admit I am immature, so I am fine calling people names! :P

Edit: Ninjad

Cecilo:

Adam Jensen:
Do people actually care about this stuff or are they simply seeking attention by trying to appear as politically correct as possible? Because I honestly couldn't care less. Does that make me a bad person?

It makes you jaded. Like me.

I agree. It SHOULD be a big deal because enforcing these stereotypes prevents the industry from growing, but we're so used to it that all our f**ks have already been given. Now we're just tired and want people to shut up already. Sometimes we should speak up about sexism, prejudice and all that, but some people just can't take the hint (like Kojima). In these cases I think it best to sweep these comments under the rug and focus on highlighting the good stuff people do. Reward it, give it air time, front page space, extra reviews; all that leads to extra sales, which devs/publishers will take notice of and hopefully mimic. Instead that happens to shit like this.

Kojima, you sly old dog you. I'm sure that's what you meant.

Whilst I agree with Kojima's distinction between the words sexy and erotic, I'm finding it a little hard to believe that he couldn't find some other way to demonstrate a character's personality other than making them half-naked. I guess subtlety isn't part of his creative vision.

But claiming that the industry is 'full of man-babies' based solely of off this? Really? Stellar example of unnecessarily inflammatory use of language. Especially when this is coming from a developer of 343, that features a nude, distinctly female AI as its main female character. Probably inaccurate too, especially the developer's use of the word 'lazy', Kojima probably spent a long, long time designing Quiet... At least this particular 'man-baby' can construct a decent story-line, nameless developer from 343!

But I digress, if Kojima wants to portray his characters in this way, it's his right as a developer to do so. It may not be progressive, but not every developer will do progressive things. Hopefully there is decent reason underpinning it, though.

Gonna go with others here, the people behind Halo have no room to comment. Each game they have worked harder than the last to make Cortana's breasts larger and more anatomically accurate.

Andy Shandy:
And is it really that much of a surprise that there's stuff like this in a Metal Gear game? I swear, the majority of people complaining about this stuff must have never played one before. This is a series, after all, that has had bare-ass naked Raiden in it.

It also has crotch grabbing and a guy shitting in an oil drum. And that bandaged guy in the MGS5 trailer where you can see the crack of his ass through his scrubs.

This kind of stuff is a staple by now.

LiquidGrape:
There's a very good reason to call Kojima out on his nonsense

If you want to call him out on something, call him out on his ridiculously bad writing. All these years he had David Hayter, an insanely good screenplay writer do the voice of Snake, but he never thought of letting him help out with writing.

LiquidGrape:

I hate how people have gentrified that term to such an extent that someone can casually apply it to any discussion pertaining sexism, racism, homo/transphobia, et al. and the people who originally posed a complaint are immediately discredited as facile.

It's done to everything these days.

We live in a society where everyone is labelled "entitled" for any imaginable reason. "Entitled" or entitlement, used to be great words/concepts. Now instead of being lobbed against actual entitled people, it's just used to shout down anyone who has the nerve to complain or ask for better from anyone or anything.

Karloff:
The original Kojima comment that sparked this off was aimed at cosplayers. It will be interesting to see what cosplayers actually make of Quiet; no doubt we'll find out soon enough.

They seem to enjoy it so far:

But remember everyone:
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And this pretty much sums up a lot of the complaining over games lately:
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Oban:

But remember everyone:
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That has to be the most laughably false equivalency I have seen in a while. Consider the Sorceress in her actual context, contrast her with the equivalent male counterpart, scrutinise the gendered aspects of the visual design and yeah, Dragon's Crown comes off as pretty goshdarn sexist. Removing her from that backdrop for the purposes of some silly attempt at "gotcha!" doesn't do the discourse any kind of justice. The issue was never boobs and boobs alone. Only the people who've tried to deflect the criticism have suggested that.

Trying to make people with legitimate complaints look like hypocritical puritans seems to be a popular tool amongst gamers these days.

Karloff:

They seem to enjoy it so far:

See this is what I said.

Hideo was concerned nobody would cosplay a bikini only sniper. So he "sexed" it up by changing the bottoms to phantyhose in order to make it far more cosplayable, because now the bottom half of the character is mostly covered.

It wasn't just sex appeal to sell more game as everyone scream about.

Hideo's English is bad and everyone just jumped on him with their social justice sexism hammers.

I love the Metal Gear games, but I love them in spite of certain things. I love that the only way to find Meryl in the first game was to check which guard's butt wiggled. It's creative, and it's funny. That said, I had a hard time explaining why EVA's jump suit needed to come down to her navel to my female roommate (Eventually went with "It's a parody of Bond Girls"). I had nothing for The Beauty and The Beast Unit. I get they were traumatized, but that's no excuse for the camera to practically give them a colonoscopy.

I don't believe Hideo Kojima or the Metal Gear series is sexist (I think he's brilliant, but immature, and the japanese culture regarding women doesn't help, but that's neither here nor there), but I wouldn't be sad if Kojima decided to stop sexing up his female characters so unnecessarily. At least to the point where they're as sexed up as Snake. Even sexiness footing. That's all I'm asking.

The character design bothers me way less than someone who is meant to be a professional being so openly creepy about it.

Adam Jensen:
Do people actually care about this stuff or are they simply seeking attention by trying to appear as politically correct as possible? Because I honestly couldn't care less. Does that make me a bad person?

"Not caring" about anything doesn't make anybody a bad person. Feeling the need to tell everybody about all the shits you don't give and assuming that anyone who does is doing so out of conformity instead of just telling right from fucking wrong and wanting to do something about it...that does.

Oban:

Karloff:
The original Kojima comment that sparked this off was aimed at cosplayers. It will be interesting to see what cosplayers actually make of Quiet; no doubt we'll find out soon enough.

They seem to enjoy it so far:

But remember everyone:
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Yes, real women dressing how they like isn't sexist because they are real people who make their own decisions, but game makers creating female characters purely as wanking aids for male players (and apparently themselves) is. Well done.

And this pretty much sums up a lot of the complaining over games lately:
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This actually does piss me off about a lot of feminist complaints about games. Nobody has a right to criticize without taking the time to inform themselves. Otherwise even if they're right, they're only right by accident.

On the other hand, if you see something shitty and sexist with no good excuse nine times, I can understand not assuming that it might be part of some ~creative vision~ the tenth. Two wrongs though, people...

It doesn't mater so much what she wears as long as she stays "Quiet" :P

But honestly, I'm going to withhold judgement until I see what kind of CHARACTER she is. Otherwise I'm being superficial.

Her outfit alone is making me seriously consider if I want to play MGS5 that much. It is just so inane that it makes me lose interest in the game. I mean, the MGS serious has always been full of fanservice going both ways, but this just pushed it a bit too far into absurd-territory for me.

Meh, the industry is full of asshats who can't stand when other people get attention, as far as I can tell. I actually assumed he meant sexy, not erotic. The context for what he was showing off was all wrong. As English isn't his primary language, I'm not surprised he had to clarify. The terms are close, but not really the same thing depending on the context. For example, strippers aren't typically (in my limited experience) considered sexy, they are considered erotic. That is why they are referred to as erotic dancers and not sexy dancers. But, whatever. I mean, he clarified (or covered, depending on your point of view) and some other jackass has to essentially insert his opinion where it doesn't really matter. It just turns to mud slinging and I personally find it really annoying. I can't stand the idea of that particular industry having such a strict sense morality, it's downright puritanical. Not all works are created with all people in mind, that stands true in character design as actually stands true with things like Fine Arts. But, that is just my opinion and I know people are going to have different ones. I'm over it, everyone else should get over it too. Truth be told, I don't find the character design interesting or fascinating from what I have seen, but there is also nothing morally wrong with it.

Feels like this is more about dirt throwing from the 343 artist then any genuine attempt to expose sexism, oh sure it is to some extent sexist, but it is the most shallow, straw grabbing level of dirt throwing sexism claim, what next, female character design should follow 19th century clothing standards? Because exposing skin is so lewd and risqué.

I for one find greater priority of how a female character is written rather then her design, so yeah when folks starts telling me Quiet gets treated in some demeaning portrayal of women are weaker BS, yeah then you get my angry attention.

"[Quiet's] character design is disgusting,"

Kind of rich coming from one of the people on the dev team that felt it necessary to clearly render breasts and put nipples on what is supposed to be an AI's vague and serviceable holographic projection...just saying, people who live in glass houses.
But by all means take whatever chance you can to highroad Kajima to divert attention away from that and come off as the more sensible and mature person.

Is it just me or is saying "Your designs are disgusting." extremely unprofessional? Like no one gave out to 343 for making Halo into Call of Duty in space.

And also: "and that, while sexuality had a purpose in gaming - he cites Bayonetta as an example of sexuality used well - in his view the MGS 5 designs were lazy and exploitative." Considering we've only seen the design and basically nothing else about the character, how the fuck does he know? Quiet could be the best use of sexuality in a game ever for all we know. The game isn't out.

Also the already mentioned Cortana-boobs are a good point.

Turns out Quiet might have a genetic ability to change the pigmentation in her skin. check the MGSV trailer below (4:49 onwards) and the marking around her face quickly fade, if it applies to her whole body it would explain the outfit choice.

and as many have pointed out, David Ellis hasn't got a leg to stand on when Cortana has changed from average body with short hair to pornstar attributes and salon styled hair through the series.

Though unfortunately Quiet isn't sexy. Meryl, The Boss, and Eva had sexy character designs, Quiet is just...stupid. It almost looks like Kojima did it just to be inflammatory. And not in an interesting, daring way either. It's like he did it for attention

Honestly the design really isn't that bad. I mean Eve was running around with her jump suit unzipped the entire time in MGS3 so I don't see the problem here.Besides this guy gave us the Boss who is in my opinion the best female character in gaming so I think Kojima can still make this character interesting.

Cecilo:

Adam Jensen:
Do people actually care about this stuff or are they simply seeking attention by trying to appear as politically correct as possible? Because I honestly couldn't care less. Does that make me a bad person?

It makes you jaded. Like me.

I don't think its jaded at all, Id say you have your priorities straight and know what it is really worth worrying about.

Kojima just make a porn already and get it out of your system.

And talking less in MGS? DOes that means instead of 45min cutscenes we get 30min? And instead of 900 pages of dialoque, mainly repeating "Metal Gear?" and "NanoSOMETHING!?" we get 700 pages. With repeat cut out.

Adam Jensen:
Do people actually care about this stuff or are they simply seeking attention by trying to appear as politically correct as possible? Because I honestly couldn't care less. Does that make me a bad person?

It might not really be much to go by, but a poll I created a few weeks ago suggest that no, people really DON'T care that much about this kind of thing. It got a surprising number of responses, and the overwhelming majority picked "I really don't care either way" out of three options of "Don't care", "It really bothers me", or "I actually like it". Even the "like it's" outweighed those who were bothered by it.

Design wise its not bad, but what I would really like to see is something deeper beyond the design... like a character... a well written one....like The Boss.
Cause so far all we know is that she's a sniper, a child soldier, she seems to enjoy Afghan enough to wear nothing but a bikini, and that she's theoretically mute.

I know Kojima has some wacky "don't give a f***" directions in his writing and I like him for that, but when you're game is finally showing off those themes that were hyped up since MGS2 and briefly mentioned in Revengeance about losing one's innocence as child by becoming a soldier and the darkness that comes with revenge, then don't make Quiet simple eye candy, make her the star.

Oh yeah, and David Ellis needs to get his head out of his ass and look at how he implanted breasts into an AI. People like him make me forgive Joel Schumacher for the Bat nipples.

Xcell935:
Design wise its not bad, but what I would really like to see is something deeper beyond the design... like a character... a well written one....like The Boss.
Cause so far all we know is that she's a sniper, a child soldier, she seems to enjoy Afghan enough to wear nothing but a bikini, and that she's theoretically mute.

I know Kojima has some wacky "don't give a f***" directions in his writing and I like him for that, but when you're game is finally showing off those themes that were hyped up since MGS2 and briefly mentioned in Revengeance about losing one's innocence as child by becoming a soldier and the darkness that comes with revenge, then don't make Quiet simple eye candy, make her the star.

Oh yeah, and David Ellis needs to get his head out of his ass and look at how he implanted breasts into an AI. People like him make me forgive Joel Schumacher for the Bat nipples.

I think people are now saying that she has the ability to alter her skin color to camouflage herself, not sure if that is official or not but that is the word on the net.

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