Microsoft Disputes PS4 Power Advantage

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Microsoft Disputes PS4 Power Advantage

xbox one image

Microsoft's Albert Penello believes the technical details of the PS4 and Xbox One are irrelevant as long as they produce equivalent experiences.

Thanks to its GDDR5 RAM and GPU, there are some who have been claiming that the PlayStation 4 will have a substantial power advantage over the Xbox One. Albert Penello, Microsoft's director of product planning, in turn, has stepped up to defend the company's forthcoming console. "I'm not dismissing raw performance," said Penello. "I'm stating - as I have stated from the beginning - that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe."

Penello went on to describe how absurd it is to imagine that Microsoft would ever let the Xbox One be considerably weaker than its most direct competitor. "Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD," he said. "Do you really think we don't know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way we're giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference - it would be obvious."

Penello would peg such talk as little more than the standard rhetoric that emerges with every new console generation. "It's been the same EVERY generation, Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better." While there are doubtless some who would claim issues like this are important in the grand scheme of the console wars, Penello perhaps has some point when he pegs such discussions as being fairly redundant. As long as the two consoles can produce comparable experiences, few are likely to notice or care in the long run about which system has the most impressive internal doodads. As tends to be the case in the end, it's all about the games.

Source: NeoGAF via Videogamer

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Is this sort of thing even relevant anymore?

It was impressive back in the 80's and 90's to throw around stats full of bits and megabytes, but that was because of the limitations of the day. Somehow I doubt your average Joe or Jane nowadays is going to notice, much less care, if one console is less powerful than another, since they all offer high fidelity performance and visuals.

Of course, this is coming from someone who thinks Xbox/PS2/GameCube era visuals still look pretty dang nifty.

In German there is a saying: "when two quarrel, the third profits".

This would be the perfect moment for everyone to turn their backs on the evil consoles and embrace the PC, for a better, deeper, and more gameplay oriented future! Say goodbye to the couch. The revolution is now!

This is kind of funny. 1st PlayStation was viewed as more powerful, so Microsoft does a last minute fix upping their power a tad to come out still less powerful than the PlayStation, then comes out and says " Power doesn't matter."
Whoever is in charge of their PR really needs to find work that they are cut out for, because this certainly isn't it.

Now I do have to wonder if their last minute CPU changes are overclocking rather than changing actual hardware, because if they went with overclocking without adding the needed extra cooling they are going to burn it up quickly greatly reducing it's lifespan. Hopefully they didn't go that route and are replacing the actual hardware? If they just overclocked it in that little box don't expect it to last very long if you buy one because it is going to cook.

Oh, let's believe them. It's only Microsoft. They can't tell a lie. Right?

I feel like bringing up DirectX but I'm just getting tired of this now.

I know this is undeserved, blind MS hatred but... Oh, so you've got the smartest programmers in the world, eh? Too bad your PR guys were scraped from the bottom of the barrel, eh? Maybe your programmers should be doing all your PR if they're so smart...

Oh wait, weren't these the same guys who came out and said "Look, our console is powerful enough to make fish who swim around and react to the player"?

Edit: Well now I feel stupid. Turns out it was the COD devs who did that. Sorry guys, I'll try to make my blind hatred a little more educated in the future.

Wait, if power doesn't matter, then why did they up the performance of their CPU and GPU last minute? Does that sound like people who are the 'smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD'?

Surely if you really believe it doesn't make a difference you would have stuck with your initial conviction instead of trying to play catch up.

...technical details...are irrelevant as long as they produce equivalent experiences.

Yes? I mean that's pretty obvious if they both provide the same experiences they are equal in those terms?

Also David Carmack already said they were more or less the same in terms of practical power.

yamy:
If power doesn't matter, then why did they up the performance of their CPU and GPU last minute?

I rest my case.

It only matters when it looks good for them.

Neverhoodian:
Is this sort of thing even relevant anymore?

It was impressive back in the 80's and 90's to throw around stats full of bits and megabytes, but that was because of the limitations of the day. Somehow I doubt your average Joe or Jane nowadays is going to notice, much less care, if one console is less powerful than another, since they all offer high fidelity performance and visuals.

Of course, this is coming from someone who thinks Xbox/PS2/GameCube era visuals still look pretty dang nifty.

I think there were quite a few who noticed the difference with Skyrim. Also the performance does matter. There are quite a few games that experience drop in framerate at points. A stronger console would be able to avoid that. Consoles are still limited by their hardware.

OT: I can't say I disagree too much here. The PS4 extra power isn't enough to give an advantage on its own, this is all about how it's utilized and how good the games turn out. The fact that these news come right after they decided to increase the clock speed of the CPU does kinda speak against him though.

Microsoft needs to give us free stuff if they want us to like them.

Neverhoodian:
Is this sort of thing even relevant anymore?

It was impressive back in the 80's and 90's to throw around stats full of bits and megabytes, but that was because of the limitations of the day. Somehow I doubt your average Joe or Jane nowadays is going to notice, much less care, if one console is less powerful than another, since they all offer high fidelity performance and visuals.

Of course, this is coming from someone who thinks Xbox/PS2/GameCube era visuals still look pretty dang nifty.

yes, it is.

It shows how long it will last, and what you can do with it.

Look at modern games. All cut up into single rooms. All scaled down.

More power = more flexibility and openness than showing a corridor.

Both consoles failed that test the moment they went bottom rung AMD components. Even GDDR5 would do nothing.

Most people who are concerned about power will be using a PC for gaming but I guess we'll have to wait until launch to see how the two new consoles will perform.

Neverhoodian:
Is this sort of thing even relevant anymore?

It was impressive back in the 80's and 90's to throw around stats full of bits and megabytes, but that was because of the limitations of the day. Somehow I doubt your average Joe or Jane nowadays is going to notice, much less care, if one console is less powerful than another, since they all offer high fidelity performance and visuals.

Of course, this is coming from someone who thinks Xbox/PS2/GameCube era visuals still look pretty dang nifty.

I was going to say that! Well the first sentence. Yeah, it does seem pointless to argue over power when the Wii out sold both 360 and PS3 with inferior power in comparison. An people never by a console for graphics alone, its whether a specific console has the games you want.

Although im waiting for when the sales figures come in. It will be obvious that PS4 will sell more, mostly due to being released in more territories that the XB1. Though i will be interested in comparisons of sales in those specific territories that both consoles sell in.

"Our games looked better!"

Whatever, dude.

RatherDull:
"Our games looked better!"

Whatever, dude.

Some games looked better on the 360 than on PS3, but that's because the Xbox was far easier to program on that on PS3.
Now X1 doesn't have that advantage, as PS4 is apparently pretty easy to port and code.

ZeroAE:

RatherDull:
"Our games looked better!"

Whatever, dude.

Some games looked better on the 360 than on PS3, but that's because the Xbox was far easier to program on that on PS3.
Now X1 doesn't have that advantage, as PS4 is apparently pretty easy to port and code.

I didn't register the context at first, yeah they are referring to the 360 and PS3.

That's because the 360 was the dominant platform and it was easier to develop for.

Now that they use the same architecture, I think we know which one will have more performance.

Lil devils x:
This is kind of funny. 1st PlayStation was viewed as more powerful, so Microsoft does a last minute fix upping their power a tad to come out still less powerful than the PlayStation, then comes out and says " Power doesn't matter."
Whoever is in charge of their PR really needs to find work that they are cut out for, because this certainly isn't it.

Now I do have to wonder if their last minute CPU changes are overclocking rather than changing actual hardware, because if they went with overclocking without adding the needed extra cooling they are going to burn it up quickly greatly reducing it's lifespan. Hopefully they didn't go that route and are replacing the actual hardware? If they just overclocked it in that little box don't expect it to last very long if you buy one because it is going to cook.

It's too late to make hardware changes in the launch models, particularly given that virtually the entire system is on one huge chip (wich is no doubt going to be causing a massive failure rate during production.) Unless they want to scrap all the stuff they have already built and release a new hardware spec that would be ready in a few months down the line this has to be overclocking.

And I doubt anybody seriously trusts Microsoft with that.

Also; I would have trimmed down the quote, but I'm on a phone and its a canine of the female perswasion to edit text on it.

The man has a point, even if he subsequently obscures it with a very silly 'our games look better' remark.

Any difference in power will likely have only marginal effect, in any, on the two consoles. The main thing it is, and will be, used for is advertising and promotion of the 'superior' console.

It's best to ignore all the rhetoric that Microsoft and Sony spout in the lead up to release of a new generation.

He does have a decent point, aside from the dumbass "we have the best/we look better" shit.

Raw power only really matters to first-party devs who can milk it to the fullest, ease of coding and porting is far more important to third-party devs and both consoles seem about the same in that aspect.

Microsoft's Albert Penello believes the technical details of the PS4 and Xbox One are irrelevant as long as they produce equivalent experiences.

Personally, I agree with that sentiment.
Sadly that is a viewpoint slowly dying off in the game industry today. It's all about power because that's all that most devs care for, and if you don't have that then they will take their ball and go home.

Microsoft's Albert Penello believes the technical details of the PS4 and Xbox One are irrelevant as long as they produce equivalent experiences./

It sounds like Microsoft is biting and scratching for any traction because they made some mistakes with their new console. Seeing as the hardware is so similar there really isn't any way to argue that the Xbox One is actually competitive so they're just saying it doesn't matter. It's classic marketing.

That being said, seeing as almost all games are now cross-platform the performance difference is really not going to matter very much. "Experience" is not really a factor when it comes down to most cross-platform games anyway as the "Experience" is going to be the same. Developers will just program for the Xbox One's capabilities and the PS4 extra GPU resources will go to waste except in exclusives.

As for the 360 vs PS3 angle, people are forgetting that the Xbox's GPU was actually slightly more powerful than the PS3's GPU and it has a unified memory system where the PS3's was split 50/50 main vs graphics. Xbox 360 had some real performance advantages over the PS3 as will as PS3's raw FP advantage on the CPU. Comparing those two systems was apples and oranges, this time the hardware is very similar, just slanted to favour PS4.

Now, it's my understanding that Microsoft has inferior architecture. That the Xbox One has one chip doing the same things that PS4 has divided among three chips. And that seems to be an issue that could cause a system failure in extended play. Not helped by the less than stellar reputation that the 360 had when it came to failing.

Of course, the reason it's so big is to help with the cooling process. Still not convinced it won't fail in time. Nor am I convinced that the system can handle the same processing as the PS4. The PS4 was designed to download games in the background while you play. It seems (according to a chart I saw) that Xbox One can, too. But I'm thinking they added that after they realized it was a good idea and I'm not certain it's something that the system will do well.

Honestly, it seems that Microsoft is playing catch up already. They pulled all those 180's on the DRM and such. They added the ability to record and upload video. I think they even stated that the system doesn't need the Kinect to work (though I think others have since said otherwise).

In comparison, PS4 has not made any changes.

And with all those recent changes, I'm not certain that the system should be coming out as soon as it is. Can you completely change a system six months before it launches and have it work?

And, of course, the final question. Which system will have better processing and framerate? I doubt graphics will vary much, especially in multiplatform titles, but which is better as the putting it all together?

Just remember even thought running equal quality graphics the system with more overhead will run cooler, more stable and in the end last longer. Microsoft has a history of over stressing their hardware and as a company has a history of not learning its lesson but it all really depends on if Sony can get the software end moving.

I don't (nor have ever) really thought that one console being more powerful than the other should even be that big of a deal.

I'd rather the two (well, four if we include the Wii U and PC, but let's not) fight over who can make either the better experience or who can make games which aren't dull-looking because dull-looking games all have mixtures of grey, brown and dust which aren't there to create effect.

Neverhoodian:
Is this sort of thing even relevant anymore?

I was thinking the same thing. It hails back to the 90's sorry ass "bit wars" between Sega and Nintendo.

Just buy whatever system, play whatever system, (hopefully) enjoy whatever system and then just completely stay off any kind of internet related discussion.

Yah, Microsoft, you keep saying this. In the past you started screaming THE CLOUD. A while back you had your own 'blast processing' moment where you started screaming about a small trick that just sort of happened in your architecture (pro tip: devs hate it when you have to jump through hoops for specific optimizations only on one platform), and now you're overclocking a component at the last second. That'll end well.

And your issues seem to be with sub-par gRAM at the moment. Not as bad as having not enough or shared RAM, but not good for your next-gen cloud fish AI swarms.

SonOfVoorhees:

I was going to say that! Well the first sentence. Yeah, it does seem pointless to argue over power when the Wii out sold both 360 and PS3 with inferior power in comparison. An people never by a console for graphics alone, its whether a specific console has the games you want.

Although im waiting for when the sales figures come in. It will be obvious that PS4 will sell more, mostly due to being released in more territories that the XB1. Though i will be interested in comparisons of sales in those specific territories that both consoles sell in.

http://microsoft-news.com/sony-playstation-pre-order-sales-ahead-of-xbox-one-on-amazon-should-microsoft-react/
In America, Germany, Britain, France, Italy, and Spain Playstation 4 has outsold Xbox1, all are territories which both systems can function. Note that the PS4 also sells in territories that the Xbox1 cannot function in, so this is accurate data showing Xbox1 selling fewer then PS4 across the board.

More recent data maybe in Microsoft's favor though since most outlets have stopped pre-orders (even after day-one preorders) of the PS4 but the Xbox1 is still available.

Frankly, I don't care about power nowadays. At least not graphically. Just make an engine that can render more then two rooms at a time (looking at you Dead Space 3) and I'll be happy.

So he is effectively dodging the issue with weasel talk ...

"I'm not dismissing raw performance," said Penello. "I'm stating - as I have stated from the beginning - that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe."

So there is a performance delta.

"Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD,"

Which help you in hardware design how?

I see where MS are coming from with their argument. I don't agree with it of course. I'm sure Sony will have good programmers too. However the 2 machines are so similar in basic architecture that the hardware of the PS4 is unquestionably better than the XBone. Maybe not hugely better though.

However, my real problem with this is MS are being stupid in getting bogged down with specs.

What they should do is say "We Got Halo, Forza, other exclusives and timed exclusive content" because fundamentally the software is what will sell both consoles

well o course it's easy to make these claims when you have something to prove...

but when publishers go out of their way to diss the wii u for not running their bloomtek 3000 engine, we don't hear a peep out of you bastards at all

i am skeptical of these points and their motivation

Fun...

Well they have to sell their product.

Look TECHNICALLY the PS4 is more powerful then the Xbox One. TECHNICALLY! But as some have said before in brilliant editorials. The most powerful console is almost never the winner. PS2 won for instance where seen the power the xbox should have taken a win. But it is in the games.

And that is the situation, the "problem" here is. A first world problem really, is that the consoles are so equal now that the games on them will be rather equal to. And as much as I am happy that Sony hasn't gone for a HydrohexaMultiCellTurboChache core or something like that. Something that would be horrible tough to program for. It is true both consoles are pretty equal in hardware. So the difference now will be software, the games!

No more "My console has Sonic and blast processing" nope.

It just isn't that much different now. And another good thing, or bad thing depends how you see it, this will force game designers to learn to code for multi cores. And that is good very good, very very good! Because we have 4 or 8 cores in our pc's these days. And no that isn't only to let the anti virus and background tasks be out of the way. It would be nice if more parts of the game engine also could use the possible speed boost from multi core game design. I know we already are asking so much but .. eh it is hard to push the sales of octo cores if that really doesn't adds that much.

Also that 32Mbyte of ERAM, cool.. but that would be enough for "free" anti-aliasing at 720p. WHAT again do seek this generation? Oh yes 1080p gaming!

Ahh yes, it was never about the hardware, it was always about the games. Let's hear what they have to say about games.

That dog had better be good.

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