Draw Harley Quinn Naked, Killing Herself, To Win DC Artist Contest

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LackofCertainty:
I'm reading too much into it, and they just want some cheesecake?

I think it's the idea that they want suicide cheesecake that is so offputting for many.

Cause seriously, that's pretty crass.

As I mentioned in the earlier thread on this, I'm more peeved that DC are ok with attempted suicide but strictly against lesbian marriage. Harley is kind of a wacko so it's not hard to imagine her trying to kill herself, but it's also not hard to imagine Batwoman wanting to marry her partner either. But DC are in favour of one but not the other for some reason.

Also context will probably be important since we don't know why she is doing any of this or even if she is in control of the situation. But it could have been handled a lot better, like having contestants draw a different part of the comic. Unless the entire thing is Harley trying to off herself.

Might I mention something that was mentioned in the other thread on this?

DC didn't mention there being water in the tub.

The Deadpool:
THIS is a sexist pannel descrition: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108959/2853752-n33611780323386306242.jpeg

Naked girl bathing? IT IS JUST A DESCRIPTION.

That you mention sexism proves you are not reading this discussion at all. You are purely arguing.

How do I know this? I stated in plain text "this is not sexist." I was never talking about sexism. You assumed I was, meaning you didn't read what I said, and you leaped to argue sexism.

Bravo.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that this a test to find an artist who can take that description and still draw a tasteful panel... but I just can't do it.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Why mention her nudity?

Why NOT mention it?

Of COURSE it's important. It'sa COMIC. It's one guy (the writer) trying to convey a story visually but having someone ELSE draw it. He has to be specific about his vision. Her being naked is part of the image he wants to convey.

Note that her being naked is given ZERO attention. The expression, he state of mind is given two sentences (over half the paragraph).

Having a naked girl in a bathtub trying to kill herself isn't sexist.

The Deadpool:

Maiev Shadowsong:
Why mention her nudity?

Why NOT mention it?

Of COURSE it's important. It'sa COMIC. It's one guy (the writer) trying to convey a story visually but having someone ELSE draw it. He has to be specific about his vision. Her being naked is part of the image he wants to convey.

Note that her being naked is given ZERO attention. The expression, he state of mind is given two sentences (over half the paragraph).

Having a naked girl in a bathtub trying to kill herself isn't sexist.

Did... Did you just do it again?

Maiev Shadowsong:

The Deadpool:
THIS is a sexist pannel descrition: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108959/2853752-n33611780323386306242.jpeg

Naked girl bathing? IT IS JUST A DESCRIPTION.

That you mention sexism proves you are not reading this discussion at all. You are purely arguing.

How do I know this? I stated in plain text "this is not sexist." I was never talking about sexism. You assumed I was, meaning you didn't read what I said, and you leaped to argue sexism.

Bravo.

I just mentioned that. Literally. You did it again. Holy shit.

Weird requirements, to say the least. While the last one is probably the worst, the other three panels are bizarre as well, especially considering how comical their descriptions sound. Failed suicide attempts, quite a laugh, eh.
I'm not familiar with the character, though. Maybe failed suicide attempts are a running gag with her?

Maiev Shadowsong:
How do I know this? I stated in plain text "this is not sexist."

And then proceeded to say it's "objectifying."

Just making statements doesn't make it true. A rose by any other name...

The Deadpool:

Why NOT mention it?

Like somebody else already said:

A lot of people are mentioning how it's obvious that she would be undressed, as she's in the bath. First off, she's not actually taking a bath. Secondly, if it's obvious, why mention it? It deliberately takes the imagination to a place with a naked woman in it, which has sexual connotations. If they had left out "naked" it's possible that people would have drawn her naked; they also might have left her in her costume, as that's the most obvious identifier of who she is, and could lend a bit of lightheartedness to the scene.

The Deadpool:

Maiev Shadowsong:
How do I know this? I stated in plain text "this is not sexist."

And then proceeded to say it's "objectifying."

Just making statements doesn't make it true. A rose by any other name...

Objectification means turning something into an object. Sexism means treating a group or person worse than another because of their sex.

Don't even try to save face. You assumed so hard, you genuinely missed the entire discussion.

Skeleon:
Weird requirements, to say the least. While the last one is probably the worst, the other three panels are bizarre as well, especially considering how comical their descriptions sound. Failed suicide attempts, quite a laugh, eh.

Actually, if done right, they are quite amusing. Jimmy Palmiotti was involved in Deadpool one of the times he went on an attempted suicide spree, probably where he got the idea from...

Maiev Shadowsong:
Objectification means turning something into an object. Sexism means treating a group or person worse than another because of their sex.

Don't even try to save face. You assumed so hard, you genuinely missed the entire discussion.

You are trying to save face by ignoring the discussion:

Why NOT mention her being naked?

If they are turning her into an object why is her STATE OF MIND given half the description and her APPEARANCE given one word?

You can call it "objectifying a woman" instead of sexism if you want to be coy, your argument STILL makes no sense.

Trilligan:
Objectifying is not the same as sexist. Are you dense or just being willfully ignorant?

You think objectifing a woman isn't sexist? Seriously?

The Deadpool:

Maiev Shadowsong:
Objectification means turning something into an object. Sexism means treating a group or person worse than another because of their sex.

Don't even try to save face. You assumed so hard, you genuinely missed the entire discussion.

You are trying to save face by ignoring the discussion:

Why NOT mention her being naked?

If they are turning her into an object why is her STATE OF MIND given half the description and her APPEARANCE given one word?

You can call it "objectifying a woman" instead of sexism if you want to be coy, your argument STILL makes no sense.

Ok.

Ok.

Alright.

Let's take a tally. You ask me, for the third time, about mentioning her naked. This, despite the entire discussion thus far having been me answering that question.

Then you wrongly insist objectification is the same as sexism. Despite having been told otherwise.

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call the talk here. I can see you.......... don't take well to reading a debate you are in. Bye.

The Deadpool:

Trilligan:
Objectifying is not the same as sexist. Are you dense or just being willfully ignorant?

You think objectifing a woman isn't sexist? Seriously?

Objectification: turning someone into an object. Sexism: treating an individual or group worse than another because of their sex. I can objectify without being sexist. You can be sexist without objectifying. I objectify men and women I see in porn sometimes.

You can try (amusingly) hard to save face and run around making up definitions all day. It won't distract from the fact that you made an assumption and missed the entire discussion.

Just stop. The mistake is done. The humor has faded.

Lol look at all the people trying to make an issue where non exists, the reason they stated she should be naked is because if they didn't they probably draw her clothed and that is not what they are looking for. The have to set perimeters for people to follow so they aren't disqualified and not everyone would automatically assume that being in a bathtub equals nakedness end of story, stop trying to make an issue of everything related to women and showing skin.

Well I would love to believe that this is not a fruit of ill intentions on DC's part but this is a popular female super hero. Of course they have the "sexy" angle in mind. Why would they mention nudity otherwise. See it is all part of their plan to widen the demoghraphic...

I just creeped myself out.

But it maybe too early to judge so we should probably wait for the winner piece. Then we can all confirm what we knew this entire time...or be wrong.

Sgt. Sykes:

BTW if you consider this 'sexualized', ask any paramedic who was called to a real naked female suicide how turned on they were by the dead blue body they found. I think not much.

A: It's not a dead body they're asking for

B: It's a superhero comic, IE 'hollywood corpses', even if she were dead

C: If you think DC comics is not going to pick the artist who draws the most sexually appealing (sexually appealing as according to market research) panel, you're completely kidding yourself.

Coreless:
Lol look at all the people trying to make an issue where non exists, the reason they stated she should be naked is because if they didn't they probably draw her clothed and that is not what they are looking for. The have to set perimeters for people to follow so they aren't disqualified and not everyone would automatically assume that being in a bathtub equals nakedness end of story, stop trying to make an issue of everything related to women and showing skin.

Yes. Of course. People would all draw a woman fully clothed. In the bath.

They would also all draw birds without feathers if you didn't mention them having feathers, right.

-_________-

I noticed a minor inaccuracy in the article. It's annoying the fact-checker/nit picker in me.

Karloff:
Maybe the lighting will fry her, maybe the alligators will wake up and smell the chicken bikini, maybe the whale will chow down.

The contest didn't ask for Harley in a chicken bikini; It asks for Harley in a chicken suit.

image

... also this is the only time I'll ever get to post a picture of someone in a chicken suit and have it be on topic.

Coreless:
Lol look at all the people trying to make an issue where non exists, the reason they stated she should be naked is because if they didn't they probably draw her clothed and that is not what they are looking for. The have to set perimeters for people to follow so they aren't disqualified and not everyone would automatically assume that being in a bathtub equals nakedness end of story, stop trying to make an issue of everything related to women and showing skin.

You actually struck exactly on the issue you're pretending doesn't exist.

if they didn't they probably draw her clothed and that is not what they are looking for

They are 'looking for' pictures of a naked woman killing herself. They want suicide cheesecake. That's crass and gross, and in keeping with a lot of really questionable trends at DC comics of late

LackofCertainty:
I noticed a minor inaccuracy in the article. It's annoying the fact-checker/nit picker in me.

Karloff:
Maybe the lighting will fry her, maybe the alligators will wake up and smell the chicken bikini, maybe the whale will chow down.

The contest didn't ask for Harley in a chicken bikini; It asks for Harley in a chicken suit.

image

... also this is the only time I'll ever get to post a picture of someone in a chicken suit and have it be on topic.

That may be the only time anyone has ever been able to do that lol.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Ok.

Ok.

Alright.

Let's take a tally. You ask me, for the third time, about mentioning her naked. This, despite the entire discussion thus far having been me answering that question.

Then you wrongly insist objectification is the same as sexism. Despite having been told otherwise.

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call the talk here. I can see you.......... don't take well to reading a debate you are in. Bye.

Again, we see your dodging the question.

Can't objectify something when her feelings and emotions are more important than her appearance. That is the OPPOSITE of being an object.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Coreless:
Lol look at all the people trying to make an issue where non exists, the reason they stated she should be naked is because if they didn't they probably draw her clothed and that is not what they are looking for. The have to set perimeters for people to follow so they aren't disqualified and not everyone would automatically assume that being in a bathtub equals nakedness end of story, stop trying to make an issue of everything related to women and showing skin.

Yes. Of course. People would all draw a woman fully clothed. In the bath.

They would also all draw birds without feathers if you didn't mention them having feathers, right.

-_________-

of course they would especially if its something official and for a contest. Harley Quinn has a specific costume and I would have drawn her with that costume in the bathtub because I really like that costume and what it brings to her character. Sorry but your analogy with feathers is beyond ridiculous, I'm still baffled you even pressed post thinking that was somehow relevant.

Maiev Shadowsong:

The Deadpool:

Trilligan:
Objectifying is not the same as sexist. Are you dense or just being willfully ignorant?

You think objectifing a woman isn't sexist? Seriously?

Objectification: turning someone into an object. Sexism: treating an individual or group worse than another because of their sex. I can objectify without being sexist. You can be sexist without objectifying. I objectify men and women I see in porn sometimes.

You can try (amusingly) hard to save face and run around making up definitions all day. It won't distract from the fact that you made an assumption and missed the entire discussion.

Just stop. The mistake is done. The humor has faded.

Here's an exercise for you. Google "objectification of women" and let me know how many articles you find in the first page AREN'T about sexism.

Notice your focus on sexism vs objectification and TOTALLY IGNORING THE DISCUSSION AT HAND.

This is what we call a red herring. Notice also you already dismissed the argument over and STILL posted this, but did not bother to defend your position.

You a simple "I was wrong" isn't much to ask is it?

Jeez, the amount of sensitivity in this thread is off the charts. Obviously they're doing this to find an artist that can accurately portray the macabre humor of Harley Quinn, and as far as the last panel goes, they want to make sure it is realistic and contrasts with the other three panels. As far as mentioning that she be naked, that doesn't have anything to do with sexualizing the character, it only emphasizes a human's vulnerability at their bleak circumstances (plus most people take baths naked).

Also, I'm not gonna mention names or anything, but the people saying that they mentioned that she be naked when they didn't have to, only to emphasize that they wanted to see her naked, I ask WTF? Some people in the comments are literally reading over this like a bunch of vultures or lawyers nitpicking through every individual word, and if the writer of the description of these panels says one word too many in the description of the panel art that they want, then they must be repugnant pigs.

Trilligan:

Coreless:
Lol look at all the people trying to make an issue where non exists, the reason they stated she should be naked is because if they didn't they probably draw her clothed and that is not what they are looking for. The have to set perimeters for people to follow so they aren't disqualified and not everyone would automatically assume that being in a bathtub equals nakedness end of story, stop trying to make an issue of everything related to women and showing skin.

You actually struck exactly on the issue you're pretending doesn't exist.

if they didn't they probably draw her clothed and that is not what they are looking for

They are 'looking for' pictures of a naked woman killing herself. They want suicide cheesecake. That's crass and gross, and in keeping with a lot of really questionable trends at DC comics of late

To me its sounds like psychological projecting at its finest, you are assuming that intent and really I don't see it. To me it sounds like a parameter that they want artists to meet for a contest not some covert attempt at trying to be insensitive or sexist. People see conspiracy everywhere where there isn't any, the in-credulousness of some people baffles me.

Maiev Shadowsong:
Yes. Of course. People would all draw a woman fully clothed. In the bath.

They would also all draw birds without feathers if you didn't mention them having feathers, right.

-_________-

A bird's normal state of being is feathered. It is the deviation from the norm that has to be explained.

Notice in the alligator scene describes a suit of RAW chicken. Because otherwise, someone might have drawn live ones or cooked, rotesserie ones.

The Deadpool:
You a simple "I was wrong" isn't much to ask is it?

I think it might be, because I dunno what the fuck a "You a simple "I was wrong'" is or how to do it.

I've discussed the topic. You can try desperately hard not to read all you like and pretend you've made some sort of point. I wasn't going to ignore you, but you insist on badgering me and asking for something I've given half a dozen times. Your rant is done -- at least from my inbox it is.

Iīm not a big comic enthusiast more an anime/manga guy. But I realy liked the old batman series and harley was one of my favorite characters. Therefore I realy didnīt like the way she was portraied in the arkham games (I dont know if this is like that in the comics). I not against new interpretations of a character but I think every character has a certain essence to it that should not be changed.

Im also generally in the "anything goes" camp when it comes to art and as long as I like something I will defend it.

Therefore, I think it is a bit early to jump to condemnations of any kind, until we see how the chosen comic will look like.
Reading the what the director described I think this could turn out to be something realy cool.

I imagine the last shot to be harley just going "fuck you guys im outta this" after being put into these ridicoulus situations by the artist. Harley would be the perfect character for this if you ask me, this type of morbid homur is completly her thing (at least in my mind).

On the other hand it could be completly out of character "sexy chick suicide" cheese with harley in it just for extra fan service (and realy weird fan service at that, I mean who wants to see a character they like commit suicide).

It all depends on wether or not her character is kept intact and if it is this could be pretty fun.

Also does this remind anyone else of the panty and stocking ending song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbhAaDdQFY0

Maiev Shadowsong:

The Deadpool:
You a simple "I was wrong" isn't much to ask is it?

I think it might be, because I dunno what the fuck a "You a simple "I was wrong'" is or how to do it.

I've discussed the topic. You can try desperately hard not to read all you like and pretend you've made some sort of point. I wasn't going to ignore you, but you insist on badgering me and asking for something I've given half a dozen times. Your rant is done -- at least from my inbox it is.

More posts talking about how you're NOT going to respond than ACTUAL posts responding.

How can objectification care more about thoughts and feelings than appearance?

It's not a difficult question.

Coreless:
To me it sounds like a parameter that they want artists to meet for a contest

That's exactly the problem. What possible reason would they have for making naked a parameter in an art contest about suicide?

Trilligan:

Hagi:
I don't really see how it's so outrageous to mention she should be naked when in bath like everyone else, normal ain't exactly her standard...

So if it's in Harley's nature to bathe in costume then why would they want artists to go against her nature just to show her naked?

What you usually do isn't the same as your nature.

Harley usually wears her costume, that's expected. It doesn't have to be her nature to do so, she's still Harley without it.

Trilligan:

Hagi:

And naked most certainly doesn't have to mean sexualized. There's easily a lot more things that it can express that would be completely appropriate like say vulnerability or comedy. It all depends how it's drawn.

But it's the fact that they drew specific attention to the nakedness, even though that should be the default state in this situation.

The added emphasis is a request that that element be particularly exemplified - that the nakedness be a focal point of the picture. And to make a nude female body the focal point of a piece of comic art - particularly DC comic art - is usually to objectify and sexualize that body.

For further clarification:

Thunderous Cacophony:

A lot of people are mentioning how it's obvious that she would be undressed, as she's in the bath. First off, she's not actually taking a bath. Secondly, if it's obvious, why mention it? It deliberately takes the imagination to a place with a naked woman in it, which has sexual connotations. If they had left out "naked" it's possible that people would have drawn her naked; they also might have left her in her costume, as that's the most obvious identifier of who she is, and could lend a bit of lightheartedness to the scene.

Also, note that there's a discussion thread going about this already.

They're not emphasizing anything. They're simply mentioning that she's naked. This would have been emphasis:

She's sitting naked in a bathtub, without clothes, with a bunch of electrical appliances dangling over her bare and exposed body.

Not to mention that a place with a naked woman in it does not automatically have sexual connotations, especially not in the context of suicide in a bath tub.

Is it seriously too much too ask to first wait and see what kind of winning drawing results from this before concluding that this is a vile sexualization of suicide? I realize it's a thrill to be offended, to feel that righteous anger for the wrongs that others do, but let's at the very least wait until a wrong is actually committed and not jump the gun at something said that when interpreted in a certain way and non-existent emphasis added to certain words may possibly imply a certain thing...

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