Draw Harley Quinn Naked, Killing Herself, To Win DC Artist Contest

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT
 

Sounds to me like they're going for a Harley Quinn version of Suicide Bunny. People should stop being so self-righteously indignant over a single word imo.

This isn't a big deal. Stop being ridiculous, everyone.

Nobody has ever given me a good argument as to why there is some sort of terrible thing to sexualize female characters and then have those characters involved in violence. I've seen a lot of people just show these things, point them out, and then stand back and assume that the trouble is self evident, but it really isn't.

"Alright, who let Frank sniff the glue again before the contest reveal?"
-"Eddy was in charge of that, right?"

I mean, seriously, I would come up with this if I deliberately intended to cause a shitstorm.

So why should we be outraged again? It's not even canon and it's a fictional person.

"The sexualisation of suicide is something I will not be putting effort into"

Newsflash: Not all nudity is sexual and sometimes nudity is appropriate given the context, like say for example a bath.

Seriously show that description to a nudist and ask them to find anything sexual about it. They'll either go for the chicken bikini or give you a disturbing stare like you get off on people killing themselves.

I have attended many art classes, and many life drawing classes. I question the amount of life drawing classes the so called sequential artist that was quoted above has taken. The first thing they do in a life drawing class, at least the ones I attended was that nude is not sexual. I have seen lots of nude women, lots of nude men, and nude men and nude women posing together... and I have to say, none of it got a rise out of me. That would be because nude isn't sexual. In the world of fine arts, if you find the act of being nude in and of itself sexual, you are seen as immature. I have to agree with that because there is a distinct difference between the two. Whether you find the content of the contest to your liking or not simply because of the suicide is up to you. But to bitch about the nude bathtub suicide actually sexualizing suicide... well there are not words for people who are that immature or that fucked up.

PS. Please stop with the rollover ads on the screen that play when you mouse of them. It's the most god awful annoying form of ad there, that and it's obscuring the text box I'm typing in.

josemlopes:

Karloff:

"I'm a sequential art student, and I find it a bit appalling that the requirement for panel 4 is essentially drawing a female character committing suicide naked," said one commenter, Seairra Willett, in response to DC's announcement. "The sexualisation of suicide is something I will not be putting effort into for a talent search," she added. Many agreed. "This has to be the most repulsive thing DC Comics has done in a while," said Rae Grimm.

So if I comment loud enough I can be part of the news?

You guys could have just talked about what DC did and leave us to figure out what to think of it.

That's one of the lazy ways writers put in their bias on a story. Interview some random person who is not involved in the story and not an expert and have them give their interpretation of the story. Then put it right in the same section as the facts of the story.

saintdane05:
image
You know, back when I was first learning about making comics, the books I read stated that any and all symbolism and full context related to what is happening needs to be given to the artist since the artist cannot read your friggin' mind. Unless you trust the artist to tell the story and it doesn't matter how they do so in the particular context, YOU. INCLUDE. EVERYTHING.

So leaving out that little "she's breaking the 4th wall/satire" bits don't really help if the contest-makers don't know that.

Furthermore, I encourage people to NOT enter into this for a simple reason: it's not a foot in the door to DC Comics. DC is not interested in a new artist. Why? Because if they were, they would have asked for a sample of a page that showed superheroes fighting, different uses of light, being able to tell a story without dialogue, and different moods in the panels. Because THAT is what you need for an artist.

Not someone who can draw Harley Quinn naked in a bathtub purportedly breaking the 4th wall.

At best what will happen to the winner of this contest is doing inking work, additional pencils, storyboarding, and maybe promotional artwork. This is not going to actually lead to a career making comics. Because DC is not interested in getting people into a career making comics. They are interested in publicity.

And they really, REALLY suck at that, if these last few days have shown anything.

...uh, isn't this an exact quote from Linkara's Tumblr? Like, exactly the same?

Phrozenflame500:
Look, I know this is really terrible.

But it's also really, really funny.

Yeah and it's not even a cutting edge dark joke.

Groundhog Day did the exact same joke (more or less) in 1993.

*shrug* While this sounds in character for Harley, I can safely say this is not in my repertoire or tastes as an aspiring artist.

Just leave DC alone, and don't blame the artists who try to go for this. DC has long lost my interests in it's comic series.

xaszatm:

saintdane05:
image
You know, back when I was first learning about making comics, the books I read stated that any and all symbolism and full context related to what is happening needs to be given to the artist since the artist cannot read your friggin' mind. Unless you trust the artist to tell the story and it doesn't matter how they do so in the particular context, YOU. INCLUDE. EVERYTHING.

So leaving out that little "she's breaking the 4th wall/satire" bits don't really help if the contest-makers don't know that.

Furthermore, I encourage people to NOT enter into this for a simple reason: it's not a foot in the door to DC Comics. DC is not interested in a new artist. Why? Because if they were, they would have asked for a sample of a page that showed superheroes fighting, different uses of light, being able to tell a story without dialogue, and different moods in the panels. Because THAT is what you need for an artist.

Not someone who can draw Harley Quinn naked in a bathtub purportedly breaking the 4th wall.

At best what will happen to the winner of this contest is doing inking work, additional pencils, storyboarding, and maybe promotional artwork. This is not going to actually lead to a career making comics. Because DC is not interested in getting people into a career making comics. They are interested in publicity.

And they really, REALLY suck at that, if these last few days have shown anything.

...uh, isn't this an exact quote from Linkara's Tumblr? Like, exactly the same?


Yes, yes it is. Congrats, dude. You figured it out.
Its pretty much the same opinion as mine, only with less rage. So, I stole it.
image

This, I believe, sums up everything we need to know about what DC thinks about it's characters.

On the one hand, I feel like this should offend me.

On the other hand, it's the post-Poo52 Hardly Quinn so I can't really get myself to care.

Frankly, if the description of the 4th panel was "Depict the REAL Harley Quinn brutally beating that godawful pretender to death with a hammer. Hardly Quinn should be visibly bloody and beaten. Preferably the panel should catch the moment before the Coup De Grace to the head.", I'd be pretty much good with this contest.

In closing, Hardly Quinn sucks and I just can't get riled up about a contest that portrays her last moments whether she is naked or not.

Hm. Disturbing a prompt as this is, I think it fits in some twisted way. The image of Harley killing herself in creative ways with a kind of 'oh well' look on her face sounds like just the kind of morbid humor the Joker himself would come up with. Reminds me a little of Yahtzee's Infamous vs. Prototype competition. I'm guessing this means that kind of thing is what readers would be seeing in this new DC thing? Never been into comic books myself, so I'll probably forget what this may all be about long before it would have mattered.

What is this, Saudi Arabia where people can't even draw a naked woman in a bathtub?
/sarcasm

Geez. Between this and the whole Batwoman fiasco, DC really ain't doing themselves no favors with their treatment of female characters.

Maiev Shadowsong:

Mysten:
But in this case, swings are a requirement. They want Harley to be nude in this scenario and have asked for as much. Their suit is typically one of if not the most iconic part of any comic hero/villain and in this case they specifically wish for it to be absent and that is totally okay.

But you JUST said no one would bath or commit suicide clothed. You specifically make it clear you assume she is naked. The only reason they could mention it is if they specifically wish to see it, then. They want to see her naked. They don't want her in a bath killing herself. They want it clear she is naked and killing herself.

It's disgusting and repugnant. Going out of your way to request you see nudity when someone is committing suicide. Utterly immature.

EDIT: said naked. Meant clothed. My bad!

Or you know.. The scene they imagine, involves her nude, not necessarily in a sexual way. And because it Is DC, and I tend not to associate any nudity with DC at all. Had they not mentioned nudity at all, and just 'bathing' or in the 'bathtub' artists wouldn't have went that direction at all.

Besides which, there is a shit ton of art out there, by both male and female artists that involve suicidal naked women....

If we're still talking about "Why specify that Harley Quinn is nude in the bathtub?" - They don't want her to be wearing her iconic outfit at the time.

The answer is simple: While real women don't commit suicide in the bath wearing clothes, Harley Quinn is VERY strongly associated with her outfit, and it's very possible someone would, instead of drawing her as realistically bathing, sitting in a bubble bath fully suited in her harlequin suit, because Harley's always wearing her suit, and without clarification, "Harley is wearing her suit" has a chance of trumping "Women bathe naked" as Standard Costuming Rules.

Also, it weeds out artists too squeemish to draw nudity when it's called for and thematically appropriate.

So, the social justice warriors are whining again because of a comic book character killing herself in a bathtub...

..Oh noes, the horror, for some reason...

There's a lot of outrage over this, and the main question I find myself asking is that if this had been the Joker instead, how different would it have been?

Desert Punk:
So, the social justice warriors are whining again because of a comic book character killing herself in a bathtub...

..Oh noes, the horror, for some reason...

Is it just me or are accusations of someone being a social justice warrior around twice as common as accusations of sexism or misogyny? Seriously, the phrase really ticks me off. It's basically grouping everyone that disagrees with you in one group and treating their views as something that they should be ashamed for having and dismisses all of them without actually addressing them.

Steve Dark:
There's a lot of outrage over this, and the main question I find myself asking is that if this had been the Joker instead, how different would it have been?

Since when does society care about men committing suicide?

Karloff:
Draw Harley Quinn Naked, Killing Herself, To Win DC Artist Contest
...but the main thrust of the response was that a strong female character was being reduced to a sexualized nothing, and put in a situation that is, at best, unpleasant.
Permalink

I'm sorry if I'm off topic a bit, and I'm also sorry if I get this totally wrong for being a comic noob who doesn't give a fuck about the jumbled continuity, but when did Harley Quinn become a strong female character? Hasn't she always functioned as a punching bag for the Joker?

erttheking:

Desert Punk:
So, the social justice warriors are whining again because of a comic book character killing herself in a bathtub...

..Oh noes, the horror, for some reason...

Is it just me or are accusations of someone being a social justice warrior around twice as common as accusations of sexism or misogyny? Seriously, the phrase really ticks me off. It's basically grouping everyone that disagrees with you in one group and treating their views as something that they should be ashamed for having and dismisses all of them without actually addressing them.

Atleast I am not calling them white knights?

The reason it probobly annoys people so much is because it strikes too close to home, I am sure the people whining up a storm about this KNOW that their complaints are silly and pointless, but they are just being offended for the sake of being offended or so that they can seem progressive.

And why would I take their views seriously? There is nothing there to address, it is a person commiting suicide in a bathtub. OH NOES SHE IS NUDES! is not something that needs to be addressed.

Desert Punk:

erttheking:

Desert Punk:
So, the social justice warriors are whining again because of a comic book character killing herself in a bathtub...

..Oh noes, the horror, for some reason...

Is it just me or are accusations of someone being a social justice warrior around twice as common as accusations of sexism or misogyny? Seriously, the phrase really ticks me off. It's basically grouping everyone that disagrees with you in one group and treating their views as something that they should be ashamed for having and dismisses all of them without actually addressing them.

Atleast I am not calling them white knights?

The reason it probobly annoys people so much is because it strikes too close to home, I am sure the people whining up a storm about this KNOW that their complaints are silly and pointless, but they are just being offended for the sake of being offended or so that they can seem progressive.

And why would I take their views seriously? There is nothing there to address, it is a person commiting suicide in a bathtub. OH NOES SHE IS NUDES! is not something that needs to be addressed.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that explanation. If you use a widely used term constantly to dismiss people's arguments with a flick of a hat, acting like using the term has netted you an automatic victory and kinda looks down on them, people are naturally going to be pissed when you use it. And no, that is not what's happening at all. Many people, myself included, see a lot of problems with the gaming industry and some trends in general. A lot of people, myself included, don't think they're bad per say, but the overwhelming leaning towards certain kind of trends gets frustrating and generic. But we can't criticize them without being reduced to "being offended for the sake of being offended so that they can seem progressive" That's a major part in why that term is so frustrating. A wide variety of views on different matters are thrown under one massive generalization combined with the people using it putting words in their mouths. It's frustrating in every sense of the word.

You're doing it again. You're massively oversimplifying the views of the other side and then dismissing the simple argument that doesn't accurately reflect their views. Heck, earlier in the thread I made a bit of a fuss over the concept behind the nudity, AND the fact that Harley Quin of all people was actually going to kill herself. That was not the argument I used at all. Please don't do that.

Steve Dark:
There's a lot of outrage over this, and the main question I find myself asking is that if this had been the Joker instead, how different would it have been?

Ok, lemme ask you this... why isn't it Joker?
For all of the "I wonder what sort of outrage it'd be if it were a guy!" questions, the fact we have to wonder is sort of telling.

Lets see DC do something like this for a guy as remotely popular as Harley Quinn, and we'll find out.

This isn't a big deal or news at all. Bored first worlders looking for something to bitch about. If this was outside of her character, sure, be pissed. But she's unstable and her boyfriend just died, who was the center of her world. As for the naked thing, sure, its sexy, but I think it has more to do with shedding her Harley Quinn identity. The outfit and makeup were a part of her Identity that is now dead, her suicide is only physically finishing the job.

Father Time:
So why should we be outraged again? It's not even canon and it's a fictional person.

"The sexualisation of suicide is something I will not be putting effort into"

Newsflash: Not all nudity is sexual and sometimes nudity is appropriate given the context, like say for example a bath.

Seriously show that description to a nudist and ask them to find anything sexual about it. They'll either go for the chicken bikini or give you a disturbing stare like you get off on people killing themselves.

I've found that certain cultures have quite a bit of difficulty separating nudity and sexuality. Not too sure why but it's not that uncommon to find people who can't seem to separate them. On the other hand, comics have often sexualized female characters which could lead people to the assumption that DC wanted the character to be depicted that way.

I don't know how I feel about some of the debates brought up by this controversy but I do feel that this is a pretty dumb contest.

Rebel_Raven:

Steve Dark:
There's a lot of outrage over this, and the main question I find myself asking is that if this had been the Joker instead, how different would it have been?

Ok, lemme ask you this... why isn't it Joker?
For all of the "I wonder what sort of outrage it'd be if it were a guy!" questions, the fact we have to wonder is sort of telling.

Lets see DC do something like this for a guy as remotely popular as Harley Quinn, and we'll find out.

Aside from an overtly popular character, the response will be. "So what"
or "what a weak asshole".

The entire outrage over this, is entirely sexist.
You can't show a naked female committing suicide, because that's sexualizing the fragility of the female psyche.
You can do the same thing for a male character, but its not going to have anywhere near the same reaction. Its going to have the opposite reaction. Why? Because society expects men to be strong physically, mentally, be heroes, with super human will power. And suicide is the same as being a coward.

So, Show a picture of batman, killing himself, while naked in a bathtub. (note, in this sense you can also say you were sexualizing it to. But apparently a naked man isn't sexualized, but any naked female is automatically sexualized.. what?).
The context is seen as completely different, even if every things the same, but gender.

erttheking:
but the overwhelming leaning towards certain kind of trends gets frustrating and generic.

Like the trend where the Escapist puts in a deliberately baiting headline LESBIAN marriage too tough for Batwoman and the Social Justice Warriors immediately jump in without considering "Wait. What has DC's attitude on marriage been?" or even "I wonder if I should actually put some thought into the subject beyond just reacting to The Escapist's deliberately incendiary headlines"?

Yeah, that trend sure has gotten frustrating and generic. If the "Non-PC" bell were rung a little less often, not only would that label not get as much traction, people might be willing to listen a little more rather than writing the topic and the PC views off as:

"Another Feminism Tuesday topic. Here come the Social Justice Warriors."

SinisterDeath:

Rebel_Raven:

Steve Dark:
There's a lot of outrage over this, and the main question I find myself asking is that if this had been the Joker instead, how different would it have been?

Ok, lemme ask you this... why isn't it Joker?
For all of the "I wonder what sort of outrage it'd be if it were a guy!" questions, the fact we have to wonder is sort of telling.

Lets see DC do something like this for a guy as remotely popular as Harley Quinn, and we'll find out.

Aside from an overtly popular character, the response will be. "So what"
or "what a weak asshole".

The entire outrage over this, is entirely sexist.
You can't show a naked female committing suicide, because that's sexualizing the fragility of the female psyche.
You can do the same thing for a male character, but its not going to have anywhere near the same reaction. Its going to have the opposite reaction. Why? Because society expects men to be strong physically, mentally, be heroes, with super human will power. And suicide is the same as being a coward.

So, Show a picture of batman, killing himself, while naked in a bathtub. (note, in this sense you can also say you were sexualizing it to. But apparently a naked man isn't sexualized, but any naked female is automatically sexualized.. what?).
The context is seen as completely different, even if every things the same, but gender.

I haven't seen this sort of thing happen for a guy so I can't rightfully say what will happen.

Likewise the fact it hasn't happened to a guy makes this sexist, doesn't it? A contest like this?

Why's harley gotta be naked? Why would Joker, or Batman have to be naked? Joker and Harley are obviously crazed. They'd prolly do it with more flare due to their personalities, wouldn't they? I dunno about Batman, though..
And frankly the massive popularity of these 2 characters would cause an uproar on it's own. No one wants to see either character evaporate from the comicbook world.

Yeah, blame society but get mad at the people who may not be a part of that society you hate. Think I wouldn't be disgusted if it were Batman, or Joker in the exact same spot as Harley killing themselves in the same 4 ways in a contest open to the public? You'd be wrong. 'm sure a lot of people would be proving you wrong.
Society's going to have to change to get rid of why you're angry at it. I don't really have much of a solution to this.

This isn't about showing pictures. This is about asking people to draw the picture as part of a contest. They're asking the public to take part in this as opposed to just drawing the art themselves. It's vastly different.
You show a person of Joker graphically bashing in the head of a puppy in a comic book, and they're "Ok, he's a madman." ASK them to draw their interpretation, and you may not get the same result. You might as someone had to draw the image shown, but I gotta wonder what are the odds of the scene being reproduced faithfully would be? The shock value might be a bit much.

Naked men are sexualized unless they're unplesant to look at which is the same case for women. C'mon, all these commercials, TV shows, and movies where a guy's shirt gets removed? Ladies clubs with male strippers?

Think guys can't be broken up, or angry at the death of a fictional character? You've never seen the anger leveled at Volition for killing off Johnny Gat in Saints Row 3.

I'm also surprised that no one has pointed out that the current comic that most features Harley Quinn is called Suicide Squad. Grr, controversy, grr.

erttheking:

Desert Punk:

erttheking:

Is it just me or are accusations of someone being a social justice warrior around twice as common as accusations of sexism or misogyny? Seriously, the phrase really ticks me off. It's basically grouping everyone that disagrees with you in one group and treating their views as something that they should be ashamed for having and dismisses all of them without actually addressing them.

Atleast I am not calling them white knights?

The reason it probobly annoys people so much is because it strikes too close to home, I am sure the people whining up a storm about this KNOW that their complaints are silly and pointless, but they are just being offended for the sake of being offended or so that they can seem progressive.

And why would I take their views seriously? There is nothing there to address, it is a person commiting suicide in a bathtub. OH NOES SHE IS NUDES! is not something that needs to be addressed.

I'm sorry but I don't buy that explanation. If you use a widely used term constantly to dismiss people's arguments with a flick of a hat, acting like using the term has netted you an automatic victory and kinda looks down on them, people are naturally going to be pissed when you use it. And no, that is not what's happening at all. Many people, myself included, see a lot of problems with the gaming industry and some trends in general. A lot of people, myself included, don't think they're bad per say, but the overwhelming leaning towards certain kind of trends gets frustrating and generic. But we can't criticize them without being reduced to "being offended for the sake of being offended so that they can seem progressive" That's a major part in why that term is so frustrating. A wide variety of views on different matters are thrown under one massive generalization combined with the people using it putting words in their mouths. It's frustrating in every sense of the word.

You're doing it again. You're massively oversimplifying the views of the other side and then dismissing the simple argument that doesn't accurately reflect their views. Heck, earlier in the thread I made a bit of a fuss over the concept behind the nudity, AND the fact that Harley Quin of all people was actually going to kill herself. That was not the argument I used at all. Please don't do that.

I have used the term a grand total of once, and I didn't do it at a flick of the hat, I read most of the complaints and dismissed them and looked down on them. I don't much care that the fact that I think some people are silly annoys them.

And I am not oversimplifying most of the views. I am commenting on the majority of the whining views I have read on the topic here and on other forums.

I will answer to your post from before though seeing as how you seem to want me to. A, some insane people like to be naked, some dont, I have worked in mental health facilities before, and some do. Harley isnt one of those surely. But she is in a bath, she doesnt seem the type to hop into a bath fully clothed either.

And as for WHY she is killing herself. It is believed that the joker is dead, and she doesn't want to go on living without her 'puddin.'

Seanfall:

BernardoOne:

Seanfall:
I like Harley Quinn I like how dark and tragic her story is....I don't like it when DC abuses a character like her for publicity. DC has shown time and time again that it doesn't give a shit about it's characters in any regards expect for who gets money from marketing them. And that's what this is, publicity and I am so glad it is exploding in their faces. Maybe if they mentioned the fourth wall thing earlier people wouldn't have been so upset you could draw her looking at the reader 'Yeah this fuckwit is into this shit.' But they didn't they didn't mention it until after the shitstorm was in full swing. This is a continuation of the blatant misogyny shown by DC.

DC...women read comics a lot of them do. keep this up...and they won't be reading YOUR comics. That's half a market your alienating at least. And more of the other half who find this kind of shit...disturbing and wrong. I am not here to start an arguement so I won't be saying anything is fact, it's just that I personally find this...wrong. I personally find it to be them trying to sexualize or make light of Suicide. You can say that 'harley is crazy' all you want but does that really make it better? Does sexualizing the suicide of a mentally unstable person make any of this more palatable? I don't think it does.

Erm, the "4th wall breaking" was said from the start. The media sites that decided to report on it conveniently forgot to say that part. And no, they are anot alienating anyone but the people who love to be offended at everything. Other people will not give a shit and just continue to read the comics instead of trying really hard to see things that arent there and being offended about it.
And no, they are not sexualizing suicide. People that are in bathtubs, are usually naked. Do you know that?

Trying so hard to be offended at something and not even looking at the context of the story.... /sigh

The 4th wall breaking was mentioned on Twitter first as far as I know. it was not reported with the first script. Yes people get offended at stuff. Stuff that is offensive and meant to incense and anger. And those people who don't give a shit? Good for them, but I and many others aren't any of them. This things are there subtext matters. Yes I know people are naked there's not need to try to insult my intelligence. But they didn't need to draw attention to that point in the script, and you know what...SHE DOESN'T NEED TO BE KILLING HERSELF! I wouldn't have a problem with this if the Joker for instance had the rope that would be fine why? Cause the jokers fucked like that.

Yes I am looking at the context and Yes I am offended and no I didn't have to try. Stop assuming that...I don't know why i'm even making this post. As everything i've said is just going to be disregarded in favor of straw man arguments. And what story? the reporting of this event? The event itself? The event is to draw An attractive woman in various dangerous or suicidal situations. The first three I don't mind their almost comical it's the final one that gets me.

Wait, you just said you would be fine if it was Joker doing it? And im the one using straw man arguments?

And of course they have to mention that in the script. Do you even know how scripts work? Like, at all?

When I read the headline without understanding the context it sounded really random and weird, like something out some creepy fetish art. Now that I understand the context... it still seems weird that they would choose this for their selection process, of all the other panels I'm sure the comic will have, but I guess it makes some sense now.

To me it just seems like an attempt to be edgy or controversial, nothing more. Get some extra attention and publicity for their new comic.

Rebel_Raven:

Naked men are sexualized unless they're unplesant to look at which is the same case for women. C'mon, all these commercials, TV shows, and movies where a guy's shirt gets removed? Ladies clubs with male strippers?

Not necessarily, I don't think Daniel Craig's torture scene in Casino Royal is supposed to be sexy, nor is Maggie Gyllenhaal's strip search scene in Strip Search.

edit: Both are naked but it's used to show their powerlessness in the current situation, not titillate the audience.

While invariably someone will find it sexy, it doesn't necessary mean it was intended to be sexy or sexualized.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here