Developers Say Memory Is Faster on PS4 Than Xbox One

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Developers Say Memory Is Faster on PS4 Than Xbox One

Microsoft responded to problems too late, according to developers.

A group of anonymous developers tested the PS4 and Xbox One for comparisons and found that the PS4 is noticeably faster; memory reads are 40 to 50 percent faster on the PS4, Edge reports. The arithmetic logic unit (ALU), a component of a computer processor often important for graphics processing, is 50 percent faster on the PS4, as well.

For example, one developer said that "without optimization for either console, a platform-agnostic development build can run at around 30 FPS in 1920x1080 on PS4, but it'll run at '20-something' FPS in 1600x900 on Xbox One." A developer concluded simply that the Xbox One is "weaker."

Microsoft is quite aware of the issue. In response, the company has increased the clock speed of the Xbox One, but a developer believed that was insignificant. Another characterized Xbox One's graphics drivers as "horrible." A different developer explained the graphics lag because Microsoft "has been late on their drivers and that has been hurting them."

However, the developers did say in some ways the Xbox One could be faster than the PS4. "Let's say you are using procedural generation or raytracing via parametric surfaces - that is, using a lot of memory writes and not much texturing or ALU - Xbox One will likely be faster."

Microsoft and Sony are both encouraging developers to take advantage of unique features, such as Microsoft's Kinect and Sony's DualShock 4 touch pad, but developers admitted they may not do so. "Unless there's a good design reason or incentive, we rarely do."

Source: Edge

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This is one of those "no shit" moments. But it's good to have official word from actual developers.

Remember when M$ said how they would never let the competition have a 33% speed advantage? Well, they didn't lie. They would let them have 50% speed advantage.

GDDR5 is faster than DDR3?

image

Next you'll be telling me that my quad core desktop is faster than my dual core phone.

So, MS just basically went "nuh uh" and make excuses.

Sounds about right for them as of late.

EDIT: Also, it's kind of obvious that the PS4 would be faster than the Xbone considering what they were using. So I have no idea why MS would suggest otherwise that would make sense.

If they cared about speed, they'd put an SSD and larger quantity of RAM in the console first.

RAM speed doesn't help much when you are bottlenecked by disk I/O from swapping and such.

Why would you want to use a lot of memory writes and not much texturing or ALU in video game development? Texturing is an obvious plus and the arithmetic logic unit is used for all addition/subraction and logical operations in a pc. These seem to be pretty heavy in modern gaming. Am I missing something? It seems like the graphically and physics demanding games would require those both a lot and isn't it just the resource demanding games we're even talking about here to begin with?

"30FPS in 1920×1080 on PS4, but it'll run at "20-something" FPS in 1600×900 on Xbox One" is a much bigger difference that I thought it'd be. I wonder why they brought the resolution down though. What if they were both the same resolution?

The changes they made were a pitance. I don't know how they thought the upgrade was worth doing it except to look slightly better on paper.

Kross:
If they cared about speed, they'd put an SSD and larger quantity of RAM in the console first.

RAM speed doesn't help much when you are bottlenecked by disk I/O from swapping and such.

You assume that Microsoft cares about hardware and systems specifications more than just gobbling people's money like Pacman on a glowing pebble binge. Or maybe it's the "curse of three", I dunno. Maybe both.

Also, I KNEW YOUR POST COUNT WAS SELF-AWARE!!!

Fiz_The_Toaster:
it's kind of obvious that the PS4 would be faster than the Xbone considering what they were using. So I have no idea why MS would suggest otherwise that would make sense.

Aaaah, but you are forgetting "the power of the cloooooooud" :P

inb4 "fanboys killed the Xbone and it's revolutionary way of digital distribution and sharing games and blah blah blah"

SkarKrow:

Next you'll be telling me that my quad core desktop is faster than my dual core phone.

Depends what you mean by "faster". My old single-core processor was faster than my dual-core (when comparing single-core speeds).

We already know Microsoft is using a non-standard dictionary. We've no idea what they think "speed advantage" means.

MinionJoe:

SkarKrow:

Next you'll be telling me that my quad core desktop is faster than my dual core phone.

Depends what you mean by "faster". My old single-core processor was faster than my dual-core (when comparing single-core speeds).

We already know Microsoft is using a non-standard dictionary. We've no idea what they think "speed advantage" means.

The shitty 2Ghz qualcomm dual core in my phone is in absolutely no way as fast or capable as my 4.0GHz gen 4 i5 :P

Kross:
If they cared about speed, they'd put an SSD and larger quantity of RAM in the console first.

They still need to sell the console. Putting an SSD would increase the price significantly. They'd have to get rid of the Kinect...

...Oh, you might be on to something here!

MinionJoe:
We've no idea what they think "speed advantage" means.

Speed of production -> purchase. :)

Kross:
If they cared about speed, they'd put an SSD and larger quantity of RAM in the console first.

RAM speed doesn't help much when you are bottlenecked by disk I/O from swapping and such.

dont bring your fancy logic into this.

this thread is all about fanboy rage now.

also:

The joke's on all of you because even though the XBONE's power will actually be quadrupled by the use of the cloud

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124325-Microsoft-Claims-Cloud-Will-Quadruple-Power-of-Xbox-One

M$ is already well aware that being more powerful is not in and of itself an advantage:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127561-Microsoft-Disputes-PS4-Power-Advantage

Albert Penello, Microsoft's director of product planning, himself has said

the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe.

So there you have it! Even with the quadrupling power of the cloud, "the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe." Do with that information what you will.

I thought the fact that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One was a foregone conclusion? O.o

And besides, it'll hardly make a difference; I can guarantee you that for multi-platform games, the graphics will be pretty much identical on both systems (perhaps PS4 exclusives will be slightly prettier than the Xbox One, just as PS3 exclusives were).

The only thing that'll define this generation is, as ever, the games (of which Microsoft seems to have a small advantage in in terms of sheer numbers), price (which obviously Sony has the win here), and marketing (...yeaaaah... Microsoft... oh dear. xD)

Also, I'd like to point out something here:

3rd gen: NES less powerful than competitors, slaughtered competition.

4th gen: SNES less powerful than Mega Drive, out-sold it. (just)

5th gen: PS1 less powerful than N64, outsells it.

6th gen: PS2 least powerful of the Big 3 (sorry Dreamcast), massacred competition.

7th gen: Wii almost last-gen quality graphics, outsells everyone.

...Is it just me or do I see a pattern here? ;P

(Course that doesn't mean the Wii U will be the best selling console this generation...)

Simalacrum:
I thought the fact that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One was a foregone conclusion? O.o

And besides, it'll hardly make a difference; I can guarantee you that for multi-platform games, the graphics will be pretty much identical on both systems (perhaps PS4 exclusives will be slightly prettier than the Xbox One, just as PS3 exclusives were).

The only thing that'll define this generation is, as ever, the games (of which Microsoft seems to have a small advantage in in terms of sheer numbers), price (which obviously Sony has the win here), and marketing (...yeaaaah... Microsoft... oh dear. xD)

Also, I'd like to point out something here:

3rd gen: NES less powerful than competitors, slaughtered competition.

4th gen: SNES less powerful than Mega Drive, out-sold it. (just)

5th gen: PS1 less powerful than N64, outsells it.

6th gen: PS2 least powerful of the Big 3 (sorry Dreamcast), massacred competition.

7th gen: Wii almost last-gen quality graphics, outsells everyone.

...Is it just me or do I see a pattern here? ;P

(Course that doesn't mean the Wii U will be the best selling console this generation...)

The less expensive option sells better?

But how will this change the most important functions of the Xbone? Does it have an effect on the TV signal? Does it mean you can't change TV channels as fast or watch multiple TV channels at once? Does it how any influence on Skype? All critical questions we need to be asking ourselves about the "XBONE EXPERIENCE!!!"

Anyway, Microsoft said power isn't important because they have super good graphics engineers or something. Take that Sony!

tdylan:
The joke's on all of you because even though the XBONE's power will actually be quadrupled by the use of the cloud

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124325-Microsoft-Claims-Cloud-Will-Quadruple-Power-of-Xbox-One

M$ is already well aware that being more powerful is not in and of itself an advantage:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127561-Microsoft-Disputes-PS4-Power-Advantage

Albert Penello, Microsoft's director of product planning, himself has said

the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe.

So there you have it! Even with the quadrupling power of the cloud, "the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe." Do with that information what you will.

Haha you make me laugh. As soon as you mentioned "the cloooooud" any valid point you had disappeared... not that you had any. Research a bit about hardware and software optimizations first. Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power.

Also I laughed more as you link MS PR babble from Microsoft morons.

search_rip:

Fiz_The_Toaster:
it's kind of obvious that the PS4 would be faster than the Xbone considering what they were using. So I have no idea why MS would suggest otherwise that would make sense.

Aaaah, but you are forgetting "the power of the cloooooooud" :P

inb4 "fanboys killed the Xbone and it's revolutionary way of digital distribution and sharing games and blah blah blah"

Ah yes, the mysterious entity known as "the cloud".

The thing that no one knows how it will work but MS says it will because of reasons.

How could I forget. :P

Didn't we already know this when they released the specs?

Haha you make me laugh. As soon as you mentioned "the cloooooud" any valid point you had disappeared... not that you had any. Research a bit about hardware and software optimizations first. Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power.

Also I laughed more as you link MS PR babble from Microsoft morons.

You're clearly sitting in the basement while the joke is stashed away in the attic; it's over your head.

Microsoft knows that they can go on brand alone and sell cheap ass systems doomed to break after warranty expires to their legions of Halo and COD fans.

SkarKrow:
GDDR5 is faster than DDR3?

image

Next you'll be telling me that my quad core desktop is faster than my dual core phone.

Actually DDR3 is faster then GDDR5, due to DDR3 having lower latency, but GDDR5 (which is just modified DDR3 btw) has more bandwidth, so the difference is most likely due to Xbox one bottle-necking.

EDIT: To give a better explanation basically DDR3 can both input and output at the same time, but that require to divide the bandwidth available, while GDDR5 will either input or output, but it got the whole bandwidth to do either operation.

iniudan:
Actually DDR3 is faster then GDDR5, due to DDR3 having lower latency, but GDDR5 (which is just modified DDR3 btw) has more bandwidth, so the difference is most likely due to Xbox one bottle-necking.

EDIT: To give a better explanation basically DDR3 can both input and output at the same time, but that require to divide the bandwidth available, while GDDR5 will either input or output, but it got the whole bandwidth to do either operation.

The latency isn't an issue because the new APU inside the PS4 makes the communication between the CPU and the GPU instantaneous. The CPU doesn't have to copy the data to the GPU for calculations and processing or whatever it is that the GPU does, and the GPU doesn't have to copy the results back to the CPU. This time the CPU simply passes the data to the GPU (now it's even possible to do it the other way around depending on the developer) and when the GPU does it's job the CPU simply reads the result. No copying, no latency. So it doesn't matter how much faster DDR3 is on paper. Bandwidth and raw power of CPU and GPU is the only thing that's important and PS4 has an advantage over every component.

This is what those analysts meant when they said that the PS4 is one generation ahead of the PC. The PS4 isn't more powerful than the high-end PC in terms of raw power. But the technology within the PS4 is not yet available on PC. And it's so flexible and easy to develop for. It's what every developer dreams of. A fixed x86 system with lots of power and lots of flexibility.

tdylan:
The joke's on all of you because even though the XBONE's power will actually be quadrupled by the use of the cloud

Microsoft is advertizing their new console. Do you honestly think they're telling the truth? We're talking about the developers here, not average users. Developers are coming out with claims that the PS4 is way more powerful than the Xbone.

tdylan:
The joke's on all of you because even though the XBONE's power will actually be quadrupled by the use of the cloud

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124325-Microsoft-Claims-Cloud-Will-Quadruple-Power-of-Xbox-One

M$ is already well aware that being more powerful is not in and of itself an advantage:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/127561-Microsoft-Disputes-PS4-Power-Advantage

Albert Penello, Microsoft's director of product planning, himself has said

the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe.

So there you have it! Even with the quadrupling power of the cloud, "the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe." Do with that information what you will.

No no no, according to Microsoft the power of the could is infinite! No matter how powerful the PS4 is it can never be as powerful as the Xbox cause the Xbox runs on clouds. The Xbox is like the PS4 plus infinity.

Ive been a PS consumer since the PSOne era, but even i think talk is cheap. All that power and hype wont mean jack if on day one/week one/first year of games stink up the used bins at gamestop.

Adam Jensen:

iniudan:
Actually DDR3 is faster then GDDR5, due to DDR3 having lower latency, but GDDR5 (which is just modified DDR3 btw) has more bandwidth, so the difference is most likely due to Xbox one bottle-necking.

EDIT: To give a better explanation basically DDR3 can both input and output at the same time, but that require to divide the bandwidth available, while GDDR5 will either input or output, but it got the whole bandwidth to do either operation.

The latency isn't an issue because the new APU inside the PS4 makes the communication between the CPU and the GPU instantaneous. The CPU doesn't have to copy the data to the GPU for calculations and processing or whatever it is that the GPU does, and the GPU doesn't have to copy the results back to the CPU. This time the CPU simply passes the data to the GPU (now it's even possible to do it the other way around depending on the developer) and when the GPU does it's job the CPU simply reads the result. No copying, no latency. So it doesn't matter how much faster DDR3 is on paper. Bandwidth and raw power of CPU and GPU is the only thing that's important and PS4 has an advantage over every component.

This is what those analysts meant when they said that the PS4 is one generation ahead of the PC. The PS4 isn't more powerful than the high-end PC in terms of raw power. But the technology within the PS4 is not yet available on PC. And it's so flexible and easy to develop for. It's what every developer dreams of. A fixed x86 system with lots of power and lots of flexibility.

What you said doesn't change the fact that DDR3 is faster then GDDR5, has I never mentioned the rest of the system or the computing task executed by the system, which system can indeed can be build and tasked to go around the I/O limitation of GDDR5 has to better exploit the bandwidth, but that doesn't change that DDR3 will be faster at any task that doesn't over-saturate the bandwidth, but graphic and predictive model AI are a high bandwidth task, so indeed Sony made by far the best decision for their memory, if you consider the whole system.

All this is also one of the main reason why I am waiting for Kaveri to come out before upgrading my PC, for which AMD has spec for GDDR5 motherboard, just hope those and the memory to go along will not cost too much for my budget.

CriticalMiss:
But how will this change the most important functions of the Xbone? Does it have an effect on the TV signal? Does it mean you can't change TV channels as fast or watch multiple TV channels at once? Does it how any influence on Skype? All critical questions we need to be asking ourselves about the "XBONE EXPERIENCE!!!"

Anyway, Microsoft said power isn't important because they have super good graphics engineers or something. Take that Sony!

What about my football? Will it be affected? I really wanna watch the game on my Xbox One. Why else would I buy it?
Also, what of the Porn Streaming App that is on the Xbox One? Will that be okay?

I dont hold much credibility to a comment by an anonymous developer....could be a developer at Sony for all we know. Anyway, dont really care about whats more powerful and what isnt, its all about the games for me. All this extra power etc doesnt mean shit if its not used properly. So I guess we will have to wait for side by side comparisons - which im sure will appear soon. Also, 1st party games are great to show what a console can do. Either way im waiting till some time next year before i make up my mind and see what games each console has in the pipeline.

DrOswald:
No no no, according to Microsoft the power of the could is infinite! No matter how powerful the PS4 is it can never be as powerful as the Xbox cause the Xbox runs on clouds. The Xbox is like the PS4 plus infinity.

We heard it from M$: the xbone has the ability to harness the power of the cloud, or perhaps they meant clouds in general, in order to quadruple its power. Then they went and overclocked "boosted the power of" the cpu on top of the already quadrupled cloud power. So what we're in fact talking about is console that is less "xbox one" and more:

(XBONE x 4) + 1

That's just simple math. M$ has said what amounts to:

"Even with clouds quadrupling the xbone's power, and us boosting the CPU in addition to that,

the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe.

Think about that:

(XBONE x(power added by the cloud)) + last minute boosting to the power of the cpu)

Results in nothing more that a marginal performance delta between it and the PS4. A turbo charged XBONE is still just about the same as a stock PS4 performance wise. But costs more.

Wow!

...Is it bad that most of the Technobabble in the News Post went over my head?

tdylan:

DrOswald:
No no no, according to Microsoft the power of the could is infinite! No matter how powerful the PS4 is it can never be as powerful as the Xbox cause the Xbox runs on clouds. The Xbox is like the PS4 plus infinity.

We heard it from M$: the xbone has the ability to harness the power of the cloud, or perhaps they meant clouds in general, in order to quadruple its power. Then they went and overclocked "boosted the power of" the cpu on top of the already quadrupled cloud power. So what we're in fact talking about is console that is less "xbox one" and more:

(XBONE x 4) + 1

That's just simple math. M$ has said what amounts to:

"Even with clouds quadrupling the xbone's power, and us boosting the CPU in addition to that,

the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe.

Think about that:

(XBONE x(power added by the cloud)) + last minute boosting to the power of the cpu)

Results in nothing more that a marginal performance delta between it and the PS4. A turbo charged XBONE is still just about the same as a stock PS4 performance wise. But costs more.

Wow!

But with the Xbox you get the revolutionary Kennect, which has like 5 different cameras and microphones that hear and see everything you do. That's a huge value add.

Not to mention the TV, sports, and water cooler moments that only the Xbox can provide. Xbone does what PSdont.

Lightknight:

"30FPS in 1920×1080 on PS4, but it'll run at "20-something" FPS in 1600×900 on Xbox One" is a much bigger difference that I thought it'd be. I wonder why they brought the resolution down though. What if they were both the same resolution?

Maybe Xbone refused to run properly at 1080p? or the framerate was so unstable they couldnt properly test it? Yeah the resolution change here makes a huge difference and most people will miss that.

MinionJoe:

SkarKrow:

Next you'll be telling me that my quad core desktop is faster than my dual core phone.

Depends what you mean by "faster". My old single-core processor was faster than my dual-core (when comparing single-core speeds).

We already know Microsoft is using a non-standard dictionary. We've no idea what they think "speed advantage" means.

That depends really. AthlonXP may be faster than early generation doualcores for example, however a single core of I5 will blow any singlecore processor out of the water.
Your statement is truo only in case of chosing a very good singlecore model and old and obsolete dualcore models.

CriticalMiss:
Does it how any influence on Skype?

very likely. Skype is a resoruce hog. it is such a resource hog that whenever you try to troubleshoot its memory leaks it tells you "buy faster computer".
if you are going to do videocalls on full HD this will matter A LOT due to how poorly skype does, well, anything.

tdylan:
We heard it from M$: the xbone has the ability to harness the power of the cloud, or perhaps they meant clouds in general, in order to quadruple its power. Then they went and overclocked "boosted the power of" the cpu on top of the already quadrupled cloud power.

The cloud isn't quadrupling anything. It can't work the way Microsoft wants you to believe. If the Xbone is designed to work offline, then the power of the cloud is meaningless. All games designed for the Xbone will take advantage of Xbone's hardware. Or do you really think that developers can make a game that will work perfectly well offline and take advantage of the cloud that will somehow make the console 4 times more powerful. It makes absolutely 0 sense. The cloud is just another Microsoft's attempt of making their console seem like more than it is. Sony has a cloud service as well, and they don't feel the need to brag about it.

tdylan:

Results in nothing more that a marginal performance delta between it and the PS4. A turbo charged XBONE is still just about the same as a stock PS4 performance wise. But costs more.

Wow!

I have a feeling you should just start linking the wikipedia article on Poe's law below each of your posts.

Either that, or you really must start using pink sarcasm text.

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