Rockstar: Don't Install Grand Theft Auto V Play Disc

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Rockstar: Don't Install Grand Theft Auto V Play Disc

If you're picking up the Xbox 360 version of Grand Theft Auto V, do yourself a solid and don't install the "play" disc.

Open the package for the Xbox 360 edition of Grand Theft Auto V and you'll notice two discs inside: an "install" disc and a "play" disc. You can install both, if you are so inclined, and inclined you just might be because data access is always faster off a hard drive than an optical disc, right?

Well, not necessarily. "For optimal performance, we recommend not installing the play disc," Rockstar Support has tweeted to several users in response to installation questions.

According to the Digital Foundry, it appears that the problem lies with the way the game streams data. "Optimal streaming is achieved by making use of all the available bandwidth in the system. Why stream just from the hard drive when you can run in data simultaneously from both the disc and the HDD?" Digital Foundry boss Richard Leadbetter told Eurogamer.

"Based on what we're seeing on the Xbox 360 version, perhaps running both DVD and HDD assets from just the one source slows down access times, impacting streaming performance," he explained. "It's not game-breaking stuff, but it does take you out of the moment when it does manifest and for that reason we can't recommend installing the play disc."

Digital Foundry, which posted a video on YouTube demonstrating the consequences of installing both discs to the hard drive, has found that the performance problem can be avoided by installing the "play" disc to a USB drive. Rockstar also tweeted that more information about the issue will be released tomorrow after Grand Theft Auto V launches.

Source: Eurogamer

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Well I'm glad they're telling us about this now, but you know this came up in testing and they decided it was corner worth cutting.

Halo 3 is written to run faster on disc too, so it's not completely unheard of.

DVS BSTrD:
Well I'm glad they're telling us about this now, but you know this came up in testing and they decided it was corner worth cutting.

It's not a cut corner, it says in the article. It gives the game more bandwidth to process data. More bandwith is faster transfer speeds, better loading times.

Thank fuck for this, I was planning on installing as soon as I got the game (heading to the midnight release in half an hour) I'm happy to see this first.

TizzytheTormentor:
Thank fuck for this, I was planning on installing as soon as I got the game (heading to the midnight release in half an hour) I'm happy to see this first.

You do need to install ... but just one disc.

So GTAV has a play disc and a install disc. The content of both discs are active at once when playing.

The install disc must be installed on your HDD.
Then you have the play disc that you can install or not, but they don't recommend (ether way this disc must be in the drive to play game).

The reason they don't recommend is that if you have both on the HDD it slows down the data streaming because both are using the same bandwidth.

If you have the play disc un-installed and only the install disc installed, then you have the 360 streaming from the play disc from the disc drive and the install streaming from the HDD, meaning they both have full use of their own bandwidth at the same time.

On the one hand, it's a shame that they didn't make things more efficient, instead having an install and a play disc that you should not install, which is a bit overly complex for a console game. Not confusing, but every other game gets by fine without it.

However, that is totally overridden, in my mind, by the fact that Rockstar warned us before the game's release, instead of keeping silent and waiting to see if anyone complained. That is good customer service.

thebobmaster:
On the one hand, it's a shame that they didn't make things more efficient, instead having an install and a play disc that you should not install, which is a bit overly complex for a console game.

My thoughts are that it isn't a lack of efficiency thing, just that there's so much content available, the most effective way to actually keep it all together without worrying about the "Insert Disc [#]" occurrence that I find to be an annoyance, if only a minor one, would be to put a bunch of content on one disc.

Anywho, I'm glad I heard word of this beforehand.

Yay for 8 year-old hardware, I guess.

Ugh...

thebobmaster:
On the one hand, it's a shame that they didn't make things more efficient, instead having an install and a play disc that you should not install, which is a bit overly complex for a console game. Not confusing, but every other game gets by fine without it.

However, that is totally overridden, in my mind, by the fact that Rockstar warned us before the game's release, instead of keeping silent and waiting to see if anyone complained. That is good customer service.

Actually its already been released here for 9 hrs, rather horrible customer service to wait for us to find it out for them. (Going by the time of this news article) frankly if it is so bad for xbox why didn't they just not give the option to install the play disc?
That said my PS3 editing was running perfectly last night and can't wait to get back in this arvo :-)

thebobmaster:
On the one hand, it's a shame that they didn't make things more efficient, instead having an install and a play disc that you should not install, which is a bit overly complex for a console game. Not confusing, but every other game gets by fine without it.

I don't recall Forza 4 running worse if you installed the first disc, but it had a second install disc along with the first disc that may or may not be installed. Either way, there were two discs for that. Maybe I've misunderstood what you're trying to get at though. Words fail me often.

Andy Chalk:
"Optimal streaming is achieved by making use of all the available bandwidth in the system. Why stream just from the hard drive when you can run in data simultaneously from both the disc and the HDD?"

That's pretty ingenious. This is why I love computers, there's so many interesting ways to do the same thing with varying performance results. I like Naughty Dog's "complicated but quality" mentality.

So how big is the install, asks the guy with the 2006 Xbox with like 14GB memory?

I'll probably get it for PC anyway, since I'm more interested in the Online thingy and there's no way in hell I'm paying for Live Gold again.

Err, good to have some clarification I guess, but let's be honest - who's this tweet for? When confronted with two discs, one saying 'install me' and the other saying 'play me', it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what to do with each disc.

Oh, I get it. This is for those people who need the 'warning - may contain nuts' cautionary on their packet of peanuts. One question remains therefore - if this tweet was intended for the galactically stupid, how were they expected to be able read said tweet?

The Random One:
So how big is the install, asks the guy with the 2006 Xbox with like 14GB memory?

I'll probably get it for PC anyway, since I'm more interested in the Online thingy and there's no way in hell I'm paying for Live Gold again.

8 GB. You can isntall to a flash drive if you have one available.

Makes sense, this is why you need to install it on the PS3 too.

Does the PS3 have two discs too? (just about to go and buy a machine and game on me lunch break as all my lovely consoles are back in the UK =( )

Sampler:
Does the PS3 have two discs too? (just about to go and buy a machine and game on me lunch break as all my lovely consoles are back in the UK =( )

No, because one Blu-Ray is enough to store the game, however the hard disk and the disk drive can be loading something separately, thus increasing how the game streams data while you play without loading screens and tries to minimize texture and object pop-ins.

Thanks beez - moot point as they were sold out of xbox's anyway. Would've been a tough call, I prefer the size of the xbox pads (as I have RSI and writing this from me ergo. keyboard) and it'd've been about a hundred bucks cheaper but the blu-ray drive of the PS3 I guess will be useful.

thebobmaster:
On the one hand, it's a shame that they didn't make things more efficient, instead having an install and a play disc that you should not install, which is a bit overly complex for a console game. Not confusing, but every other game gets by fine without it.

However, that is totally overridden, in my mind, by the fact that Rockstar warned us before the game's release, instead of keeping silent and waiting to see if anyone complained. That is good customer service.

Its not their fault. Eggsbox is just not powerful enough to read the whole game from HDD so they had to find ways to make it actually run any way possible.
Every other game does not "go fine without it". every other game cuts so many corners that if you turn aroudn to ofast youll see the game world gets removed as soon as you pass it to make it run. the obsolete hardware simply cant run the things we are trying to make it run.

Grouchy Imp:
Err, good to have some clarification I guess, but let's be honest - who's this tweet for? When confronted with two discs, one saying 'install me' and the other saying 'play me', it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what to do with each disc.

Oh, I get it. This is for those people who need the 'warning - may contain nuts' cautionary on their packet of peanuts. One question remains therefore - if this tweet was intended for the galactically stupid, how were they expected to be able read said tweet?

OR perhaps to people like me who would go to such lengts as to crack the game so it would stop bugging me about "insert your disk" after i isntaleld it. i installed it for precisely the reason so i wouldnt have to use my disc to begin with.

Grouchy Imp:
Err, good to have some clarification I guess, but let's be honest - who's this tweet for? When confronted with two discs, one saying 'install me' and the other saying 'play me', it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what to do with each disc.

Oh, I get it. This is for those people who need the 'warning - may contain nuts' cautionary on their packet of peanuts. One question remains therefore - if this tweet was intended for the galactically stupid, how were they expected to be able read said tweet?

Or for people who still have gen 1 360s. I install everything, because when the machine is reading from the disc, it is quite loud, and not terribly confidence inspiring.

So for a usually better play experience, and better peace of mind, everything gets installed. And got GTAV I can tell you the game still plays fine, you just very occasionally have the textures lag a moment before loading in as you roam about. And if I have to choose between some infrequent laggy textures and replacing my entire unit, well its not a hard decision.

vxicepickxv:
Halo 3 is written to run faster on disc too, so it's not completely unheard of.

I as thinking of an example, but I've known other games as well that run better if not installed, Fallout 3 was one as well, and i heard people say the same about other games, but I don't remeber since I hardly instal the games myself (unless they are HUGE)

Strazdas:
OR perhaps to people like me who would go to such lengts as to crack the game so it would stop bugging me about "insert your disk" after i isntaleld it. i installed it for precisely the reason so i wouldnt have to use my disc to begin with.

Elijin:
Or for people who still have gen 1 360s. I install everything, because when the machine is reading from the disc, it is quite loud, and not terribly confidence inspiring.

So for a usually better play experience, and better peace of mind, everything gets installed. And got GTAV I can tell you the game still plays fine, you just very occasionally have the textures lag a moment before loading in as you roam about. And if I have to choose between some infrequent laggy textures and replacing my entire unit, well its not a hard decision.

My point wasn't that some people don't install their games - I have quite a few on my 360 drive and with most games installing from the disc is an optional extra, something we can do or choose not to do as suits our needs (and harddrive space). My point was that with GTA V the discs come clearly labelled and during the installation process you are made aware that one disc is for installing the game and one disc is for use in the discdrive. My point, really, was that this configuration is explained during the install procedure and so further clarification by Rockstar was unnecessary.

Grouchy Imp:

Strazdas:
OR perhaps to people like me who would go to such lengts as to crack the game so it would stop bugging me about "insert your disk" after i isntaleld it. i installed it for precisely the reason so i wouldnt have to use my disc to begin with.

Elijin:
Or for people who still have gen 1 360s. I install everything, because when the machine is reading from the disc, it is quite loud, and not terribly confidence inspiring.

So for a usually better play experience, and better peace of mind, everything gets installed. And got GTAV I can tell you the game still plays fine, you just very occasionally have the textures lag a moment before loading in as you roam about. And if I have to choose between some infrequent laggy textures and replacing my entire unit, well its not a hard decision.

My point wasn't that some people don't install their games - I have quite a few on my 360 drive and with most games installing from the disc is an optional extra, something we can do or choose not to do as suits our needs (and harddrive space). My point was that with GTA V the discs come clearly labelled and during the installation process you are made aware that one disc is for installing the game and one disc is for use in the discdrive. My point, really, was that this configuration is explained during the install procedure and so further clarification by Rockstar was unnecessary.

GTA 3 also came in two CDs clearly labeled one for isntalation other for playing (the game radios were on that one). i found a way to hijack it to read the dosc from an iso from my PC. some people just want to use their damn hard drives.

Strazdas:

Grouchy Imp:

Strazdas:
OR perhaps to people like me who would go to such lengts as to crack the game so it would stop bugging me about "insert your disk" after i isntaleld it. i installed it for precisely the reason so i wouldnt have to use my disc to begin with.

My point wasn't that some people don't install their games - I have quite a few on my 360 drive and with most games installing from the disc is an optional extra, something we can do or choose not to do as suits our needs (and harddrive space). My point was that with GTA V the discs come clearly labelled and during the installation process you are made aware that one disc is for installing the game and one disc is for use in the discdrive. My point, really, was that this configuration is explained during the install procedure and so further clarification by Rockstar was unnecessary.

GTA 3 also came in two CDs clearly labeled one for isntalation other for playing (the game radios were on that one). i found a way to hijack it to read the dosc from an iso from my PC. some people just want to use their damn hard drives.

*sigh*

And nothing is stopping you from using your "damn" hard drive. Install both discs if you want, go nuts. It is completely possible to install both discs. But the game itself, and Rockstar's clarifying Tweet, both put across the message that this is not the optimal way of installing the game. It doesn't stop you from doing otherwise if you want to.

There. I have now tried to explain for the second time the thing that Rockstar has also attempted to express twice. I really hope that this has helped, 'cause I have no idea what to say if it hasn't.

Grouchy Imp:

Strazdas:

Grouchy Imp:

My point wasn't that some people don't install their games - I have quite a few on my 360 drive and with most games installing from the disc is an optional extra, something we can do or choose not to do as suits our needs (and harddrive space). My point was that with GTA V the discs come clearly labelled and during the installation process you are made aware that one disc is for installing the game and one disc is for use in the discdrive. My point, really, was that this configuration is explained during the install procedure and so further clarification by Rockstar was unnecessary.

GTA 3 also came in two CDs clearly labeled one for isntalation other for playing (the game radios were on that one). i found a way to hijack it to read the dosc from an iso from my PC. some people just want to use their damn hard drives.

*sigh*

And nothing is stopping you from using your "damn" hard drive. Install both discs if you want, go nuts. It is completely possible to install both discs. But the game itself, and Rockstar's clarifying Tweet, both put across the message that this is not the optimal way of installing the game. It doesn't stop you from doing otherwise if you want to.

There. I have now tried to explain for the second time the thing that Rockstar has also attempted to express twice. I really hope that this has helped, 'cause I have no idea what to say if it hasn't.

You said that such message is made only for people who are so stupid they need a nuts warning on a pack of nuts. i merely said that some people just have a preference without being stupid, to which i misdirected and my second post indeed was unnecessary. However i stil lstand by the fact that such things asn labeling discs is not a measure enough to tell people about optimal configuration and thus the tweet was a good idea.

DVS BSTrD:
Well I'm glad they're telling us about this now, but you know this came up in testing and they decided it was corner worth cutting.

It's nothing to do with cutting corners. GTA needs to stream a colossal amount of data for that huge, vibrant world that everybody likes, and there simply isn't enough bandwidth. It's a technical limitation of the hardware.

Mortis Nuncius:

thebobmaster:
On the one hand, it's a shame that they didn't make things more efficient, instead having an install and a play disc that you should not install, which is a bit overly complex for a console game.

My thoughts are that it isn't a lack of efficiency thing, just that there's so much content available, the most effective way to actually keep it all together without worrying about the "Insert Disc [#]" occurrence that I find to be an annoyance, if only a minor one, would be to put a bunch of content on one disc.

Anywho, I'm glad I heard word of this beforehand.

It's nothing to do with not having enough room on the disk, it's simply that GTA has a colossal amount of data to stream each frame, and the bandwidth just isn't enough from one storage device, so it uses both simultaneously. It's a hardware limitation that is affected by drive speeds, bus speeds, and memory speeds combined.

When you're whizzing around that massive sandbox that looks so lovely and has so much content, what you should actually be thinking is 'holy crap, it's a miracle they can get enough data into memory fast enough!' ;-)

That's some really clever programming right there.

Selecting between DVD drive or HDD? Why not combining the bandwidth of both?

Yeeeeah...

Remember that Vice City and San Andreas required constant streaming from disc as well? These games could kill a brand new PS2 in a matter of weeks...

Personally, I'd rather accept the non-optimal performance or spend ten bucks on a fast thumb drive. I'm pretty certain the drive will thank me...

Sampler:
Does the PS3 have two discs too? (just about to go and buy a machine and game on me lunch break as all my lovely consoles are back in the UK =( )

This might be the last time I get to say this on this generation, maybe every.

Well... on MY console there is only one disc.

Ahhh

Grouchy Imp:
My point, really, was that this configuration is explained during the install procedure and so further clarification by Rockstar was unnecessary.

That configuration, however, isn't the one that prompts the need for explanation. Nor does it automatically stand that installing the play disc to cut down on wear will end up being detrimental.

Honestly, the game is so slow to load, it's unsurprising people would want to install.

WOW, now developers are reaching for previously unheard of straws in optimizing for aging console systems: utilizing the IDE bandwith of the disc drive to deliver an extra 60-90 Mb/s, we just went back to 1992 guys.

Rob Robson:
WOW, now developers are reaching for previously unheard of straws in optimizing for aging console systems: utilizing the IDE bandwith of the disc drive to deliver an extra 60-90 Mb/s, we just went back to 1992 guys.

Oh, good. I was worried we'd gone back further. I didn't want to go through puberty again.

Zachary Amaranth:

Grouchy Imp:
My point, really, was that this configuration is explained during the install procedure and so further clarification by Rockstar was unnecessary.

That configuration, however, isn't the one that prompts the need for explanation. Nor does it automatically stand that installing the play disc to cut down on wear will end up being detrimental.

Honestly, the game is so slow to load, it's unsurprising people would want to install.

Err, that's not my experience. I've installed the 'install' disc and play the 'play' disc and other than the ~20 second boot-up time I have yet to encounter a single loading pause (other than character switching which takes a completely unacceptable three whole seconds) and according to game stats I'm already 45% through the game. As far as I can see the game works fine as directed by the on-disc instructions and I still cannot understand why people would run counter to these so I've kinda mentally shelved this thread, but you quoted me and I don't want to seem rude by not replying.

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