PS4 "Isn't Allowed" to be Another Failure, Says Sony Exec

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Not to be too much of a smarmy prat, but if the PS3 was a failure how is that Vita doing?

The PS2 is the best selling console ever according to VGChartz. It sold 157.68 million units worldwide. By comparison, the PS3 comes in at 8th with 79.1 million units sold worldwide. And the original Playstation is fourth at 104.25 million. PSP is seventh, having sold 79.77 million units. The Vita is twenty-first having moved a sparse 5.69 million.

For those who are curious, the 360 is ninth having sold 78.41 million units (over half in the North America). And the Wii is fifth having moved 100.18 million units.

Source: VGChartz Platform sales

Looking at that information, you can understand why they would consider it a failure. The PS3 was far below it's predecessors in sales figures and was much more expensive to produce. That's not something to take lightly.

Those figures also shed a ton of light on Microsoft's thinking with Xbox One. Only three consoles on that list beat the 360 in North America sales.

At the end of the day, I'm not worried. Everything has been pretty positive for the PS4 so far. And from what I've heard preorders for it are strong. I guess we'll know for sure in two months time.

Caiphus:
Not to be too much of a smarmy prat, but if the PS3 was a failure how is that Vita doing?

It's death knell will come on October 12. The executor is said to look like a Y shaped bird with long black claws and fearsome blue eyes.

Dragonbums:

It's death knell will come on October 12. The executor is said to look like a Y shaped bird with long black claws and fearsome blue eyes.

Aaaw noooo. I've put my eggs in the wrong basket.

Get the vita, they said. Two touchscreens are better than one, they said.

Well, fuck.

I just don't understand how game devs can spend millions of dollars on A SINGLE GAME and expect a profit because they "appealed to the widest audience"

I mean, to me, that's the main issue here...
Devs aren't making the games they want to play, they're making the games they THINK people want, by trying to give them everything in a single package... And that's where the problem lies...

Because it's the best idea I can think of at the moment... I point to Dark Souls 2..
From Software are trying to make DS2 into "the next skyrim" trying to widen the audience for their games... Pumping lots more money into the franchise hoping that it can win over fans from other genres...

And it just won't work... Because fans of the souls's series don't want skyrim, and TES fans don't want a souls game...
(Y'know, would probably be better to point at the Jimquisition episode)

Then again, some indie devs are doing amazingly well... Overkill Software said Payday 2 was in profit BEFORE launch day...
But since that was claimed a success will that mean everyone else will try to make a money stealing crime game?
No?

Because that's not what the "wider audience" wants...

THAT'S why the games industry will fail... Because the big time devs don't understand how to not overspend

Video game executives, always good for a laugh.
They're some of the most deluded and sometimes flat out insane people I've ever known.

So the only truly profitable division of SONY is going to be cut out because... its not profitable enough to hold the rest of the company together? what is this backward way of thinking. i realized that some nonprofitabel divisions are useful because they in fact take some of the loses away from stationary costs, but why cut down the profitable one?

Toadfish1:
Ignoring the fact that Nintendo would be in the exact same situation if the Wii hadn't, by complete fluke, become a massive fad, by what metric did Microsoft lose the 7th gen?

probably by the fact that they sold least console boxes of the three. granted i dont think it is the most reliable metric but its one thats most used.

Adam Jensen:
And when the console industry inevitably fails (maybe not this generation) due to the insane expectations of these corporations, what's gonna happen to video game industry? My opinion: Renaissance.

Ascension to PCs?

Toadfish1:
The Xbox brand gives Microsoft a billion dollars annually, and has since 2007, so I think they're pretty satisfied with it. Who the hell is gonna look at a profit of a billion dollars from a division, then just say "we didn't outsell the other consoles. THIS MONEY SMELLS LIKE FAILURE!".

A division will be kept open as long as it is profitable. The XBox has been very, very profitable. The Ps4 will likely be very, very profitable. And when Nintendo isn't profitable, they will be shut down by bankruptcy. Investors don't give a shit about the console wars, they care about profit.

Except the fact that the net profit of Xbox project (as in whole Xbox division) has been a loss for its whole life and only if they have exact same sucess that 360 has in couple last years (not since 2007) they will be into the plus only after 3 years. 2 years ago anyone would have told you xbox is a failure as far as profitability is concerned. it managed to psuh though a bit lately which gives some people hope.

Toadfish1:
Ignoring the fact that Nintendo would be in the exact same situation if the Wii hadn't, by complete fluke, become a massive fad, by what metric did Microsoft lose the 7th gen? They sold 80 million consoles and 819 million games, and have one of the most successful accessories in gaming history.

Usually people go off sales alone don't they? I don't really see how it lost in that sense, being in second place until the last 6 months of the gen doesn't really seem like being in last place to me (and the difference between 3rd and 2nd isn't that large a gap).

Uh yeah Sony. But what if it IS another failure? Are you going to make your whole creative team commit seppuku?

The PS4 I think will do fine. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot which will help Sony, and since they arent selling a Blu-Ray player instead of a console this time will help. Ofcourse, backwards compatibility with the PS3 would be a useful booster.

As for console doomsayers, consoles will never fail and die. The end of consoles will be due to the hybridization of consoles and PCs. Consoles are becoming more and more like most PCs but with more ease of use than a PC does for gaming. But people who fight such battles are usually too short-sighted to realize that.

If the next gen console fail, then we shall welcome all the console players to the PC with open arms!

What I've heard recently from developers regarding the "maxing out the consoles" already with games especially on Xbone doesn't bode well for it, especially since they want this next gen to last 10 years which is way too long in my opinion.

Caiphus:

Dragonbums:

It's death knell will come on October 12. The executor is said to look like a Y shaped bird with long black claws and fearsome blue eyes.

Aaaw noooo. I've put my eggs in the wrong basket.

Get the vita, they said. Two touchscreens are better than one, they said.

Well, fuck.

They definitely pulled the wool over your eyes. Two touchscreens? Haha, it only has one. And a useless touchpad.

DarkhoIlow:
If the next gen console fail, then we shall welcome all the console players to the PC with open arms!

What I've heard recently from developers regarding the "maxing out the consoles" already with games especially on Xbone doesn't bode well for it, especially since they want this next gen to last 10 years which is way too long in my opinion.

Gone to be hard for most console gamers to accept the open arms of the 'master race'. lol

Asuka Soryu:

They definitely pulled the wool over your eyes. Two touchscreens? Haha, it only has one. And a useless touchpad.

Alright, alright. You got me :P

It has two touch inputs of varying efficiencies.

Yeah and I'm "not allowed" to drink with my anti depressants. Some things just happen. No but seriously, when the PS2 was in its prime it was easily in my opinion the best console of that gen. Last time Sony led the pack things were great. I wouldn't mind seeing that happen again.

Toadfish1:

CriticKitten:
I called this shit years ago.

This is why people who say "Nintendo needs to die so that only Sony and MS are around!" are morons. Because it was inevitable that if Sony and MS performed poorly for extended periods (or at least, "poorly" in the eyes of shareholders) that they'd consider cutting out of the console market altogether.

Now Sony's finally coming out and admitting precisely what I expected was the case: that if the PS4 doesn't exceed expectations, it's likely to be their last console. And I imagine the same is true for the Xbone, since MS has already "lost" two gens in a row....and in a company used to winning, that's unacceptable.

Ignoring the fact that Nintendo would be in the exact same situation if the Wii hadn't, by complete fluke, become a massive fad, by what metric did Microsoft lose the 7th gen? They sold 80 million consoles and 819 million games, and have one of the most successful accessories in gaming history.

Even if the Wii sold as much as the Gamecube it still wouldn't matter to Nintendo.

To put a bit of perspective, the Gamecube was in third place. Beaten by the Xbox, and while Microsoft posted some steep losses on the console despite being second- Nintendo was still in the black for their Gamecube.
So for all intents and purposes, Nintendo had always made a profit on their consoles. Regardless of what place it's in.

DarkhoIlow:
If the next gen console fail, then we shall welcome all the console players to the PC with open arms!

What I've heard recently from developers regarding the "maxing out the consoles" already with games especially on Xbone doesn't bode well for it, especially since they want this next gen to last 10 years which is way too long in my opinion.

Then if "maxing out" the consoles is going to be too expensive for devs, then how is that Microsoft and Sony's fault?
I'm asking this because they literally made those consoles to cater to their thirst for raw graphical power. Now they are saying their games can't handle it? Or it's going to cost too much to pump in all that power into the new systems? Why?
Isn't that exactly what they wanted?

Exactly how much profit does sony want?? I'm pretty sure there is no-one who could class the ps3 as a failure, and i'm pretty sure i used to be an xbox fanboy back in the days of stupidity

AzrealMaximillion:
I find it especially hard to take Bethesda seriously when they say it because they can't even release all of the Skyrim DLC on the PS3 because they never took the time to make their development methods work better with the PS3, and at the end of this console era, are literally the only big developer who releases a PS3 game that can't even make their DLC work for multiple platforms. That's a Bethesda only issue as far as I know and its kind of sad to see them be constantly out done in terms of programming by tiny Japanese developers and smaller Western Developers as well.

Bethesda are kinda like on PC and XBOX as well. They really just can't program for shit.

I think I heard something about Valve saying they found the PS3 harder to program for once. Can't remember exactly what though.

So Sony will drop out of the console industry, Microsoft will think "Hey, we've got the whole market to ourselves!" (face it, Nintendo is irrelevant at this stage) and start all these ridiculous cash-grab schemes that gamers will then get fed up with and ditch consoles altogether.

The future of PC gaming is bright, it seems. :)

Extragorey:
So Sony will drop out of the console industry, Microsoft will think "Hey, we've got the whole market to ourselves!" (face it, Nintendo is irrelevant at this stage) and start all these ridiculous cash-grab schemes that gamers will then get fed up with and ditch consoles altogether.

The future of PC gaming is bright, it seems. :)

Irrelevant doesn't mean non existent. By the whole, if any one of the three drops, you will still be left with now only two major console companies.
Nintendo has the money, to dominate and/or fill the hole that Sony left. Similarily another, smaller company could come in and fill the gap.
There is also a chance, that the Microsoft have no interest in filling Sony's niche at all. Which was boasting a huge library of JRPG games. And considering how people in Japan don't even LIKE the Xbox anyway, chances are they are going to go to PCs, handhelds, and Nintendo platforms. So even if Microsoft wanted that pie, those devs will shut the door in their face.
There is no guarantee that Microsoft will stay in anyway. Especially when the Xbox division is under pressure from the rest of the company to finally make a profit off the console line. They lost $5 billion dollars on the line since inception, and the rest of the company is struggling too with their shit Windows 8 interface.

I said something similar early this year. Sony is still in debt, though they have sold a lot of buildings and everything else. Thats why they made the PS4 as approachable as possible to gamers. PS3 had a difficult launch due to price, deleting of the BC etc but it still sold very well. An i know they are taking a hitting on tv market etc mostly i think due to cost. Other companies make much better electronics for less money, Sony have always sold on their name.

But maybe its just a whole different ball game now compared to PS1 debut. Games cost more and more every year. Consoles cos more to make as the race for better graphics and performance increases. Maybe its becoming a very expensive business to sell a console. But if they do stop making console, i doubt it as PS4 will be a success, then they will still make their great games. An maybe they will just let MS spend billions on making consoles and Sony will just reap the profit off the gaming side.

Although, i wouldnt mind if MS and Sony team up and bring out a console. Play Box? X-Station? Though would let Sony deal with the hardware side as they are way more reliable. :-)

Dr. McD:

AzrealMaximillion:
I find it especially hard to take Bethesda seriously when they say it because they can't even release all of the Skyrim DLC on the PS3 because they never took the time to make their development methods work better with the PS3, and at the end of this console era, are literally the only big developer who releases a PS3 game that can't even make their DLC work for multiple platforms. That's a Bethesda only issue as far as I know and its kind of sad to see them be constantly out done in terms of programming by tiny Japanese developers and smaller Western Developers as well.

Bethesda are kinda like on PC and XBOX as well. They really just can't program for shit.

I think I heard something about Valve saying they found the PS3 harder to program for once. Can't remember exactly what though.

Gabe Newell said that programming for the PS3 was a "waste of time" in 2007. He apologized 2 years later after the 360's Xbox Live update rules completely fucked up TF2 on the 360. Then in 2011 Valve released Portal 2 on all platforms (except the Wii), with not a peep about programming issues. And Steamworks on the PS3 version, a free PC code for the game, along with cross platform play to PC users.

There hasn't been any devs in the past few years complaining about the PS3 being hard to code for, and those that have, are known for glitch filled releases anyway.

Like I said before, it more than likely has to do with the way that Western Devs make console games vs.the way Japanese Devs do it. That's why I say that "coding is harder on the PS2/PS3 argument" is a bit of a misconception.

SonOfVoorhees:
I said something similar early this year. Sony is still in debt, though they have sold a lot of buildings and everything else. Thats why they made the PS4 as approachable as possible to gamers. PS3 had a difficult launch due to price, deleting of the BC etc but it still sold very well. An i know they are taking a hitting on tv market etc mostly i think due to cost. Other companies make much better electronics for less money, Sony have always sold on their name.

But maybe its just a whole different ball game now compared to PS1 debut. Games cost more and more every year. Consoles cos more to make as the race for better graphics and performance increases. Maybe its becoming a very expensive business to sell a console. But if they do stop making console, i doubt it as PS4 will be a success, then they will still make their great games. An maybe they will just let MS spend billions on making consoles and Sony will just reap the profit off the gaming side.

Although, i wouldnt mind if MS and Sony team up and bring out a console. Play Box? X-Station? Though would let Sony deal with the hardware side as they are way more reliable. :-)

I highly doubt that a Sony MS collab will happen considering the Microsoft Entertainment and Devices division and the Xbox brand have been losing MS a lot much money pretty much since its inception. The Original Xbox lost MS $4 billion. The 360 is currently not profiting. The Xbone's launch is going to be very small with it only coming out in 13 countries and having a $100 price disadvantage to the PS4.

Basically, MS looks a lot closer to ridding themselves of a console than Sony. The Playstation brand and Sony Pictures are pretty much the only thing making Sony money these days, so I doubt the Playstation is going anywhere

Also, despite Sony as a whole being in debt, Sony Computer Entertainment and the Playstation brand has been profitable in recent times. I know Microsoft as a company has more money, but I doubt they're willing to spend the money needed to repair the Xbox Brand.

I honestly think that in the most dire of straights, Sony and Nintendo would wind up doing a collaboration. Hell, that was supposed to happen in the early 90s and Nintendo backed out last second and (very stupidly) went with Phillips to make the Phillips CD-i that came out in 1991. At $700..... In 1991. So Sony built upon their prototype and made the Playstation.

Needless to say I think by the end of this console generation we will be seeing one of the big 3 will be leaving the console game.

The rest of your post hinges around this part, so it's the part I'm going to focus on:

Toadfish1:
The Xbox brand gives Microsoft a billion dollars annually, and has since 2007, so I think they're pretty satisfied with it.

image

All evidence suggests that the so-called "entertainment division" of Microsoft is costing them more money than it produces. In fact, that's why the "entertainment division" exists: it was a neat little way for Microsoft to hide the XBox's finances at a glance, so that people would need to dig a little harder to find the actual numbers on the XBox. But the numbers are clear: the Xbox "brand" is still a money pit.

Here's a graph pointing out the overall net losses MS has sustained over the last ten years (source here):
image

Here's another article from 2005 confirming that the Xbox division at that time was running massive losses over consecutive years.

The 360 came out in 2005, and prior to that point, the Xbox brand name was costing them nearly a billion dollars every fiscal year. So even with the 360's release, they ran two straight fiscal years of significant losses before they began to turn a profit. It's only very recently that the Xbox "brand" has scraped out any true profits, and it's not nearly the massive margin you'd pretend it is. And even with the more recent success, the net result of the last ten years in gaming for Microsoft are about 3 billion dollars less money than they would've had if they had stayed out of the market altogether. Yeah, I'm sure MS's investors are chomping at the bit for a bigger focus on console gaming with numbers like that!

And do note that even if we assumed that it was making them a billion dollars per year (which I've just shown that it's really not doing), that means that the Xbox produces less than one-sixteenth of the company's current profit margins per year. Microsoft raked in about 4 billion in profits per quarter, over the last four fiscal quarters. So it takes Xbox an entire fiscal year to do what the rest of its products can do in less than a full fiscal quarter. Gaming is NOT their biggest product by far, it's actually one of their smaller products. And their gaming division is still trying to dig itself out of the financial hole it dug for itself back when it was first founded. They haven't even made enough money to pay all of their costs from the last ten years. If the gaming division were its own company, they'd have gone under already.

If the Xbone bombs, and all indications at present suggest that's still a very real possibility, do you really think investors will put up with yet another console costing the company more profits? Not a chance. Xbone could very well be MS's last console.

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