Dark Souls II Director Wants Next-Gen Physics, Not Graphics

Dark Souls II Director Wants Next-Gen Physics, Not Graphics

Dark Souls 2 screenshot

Dark Souls already looks pretty nice, so why waste those next-gen resources on graphics when they could be spent improving other things?

Modern games aren't quite photorealistic, but they're getting pretty darn close. Close enough that Dark Souls II director Yui Tanimura doesn't feel the need to waste the power of next-gen consoles on minor visual improvements - he'd rather use that computing power on something more practical. Tanimura doesn't actually have any next-gen projects announced, but if he were going to move to the PS4 or Xbox One, he'd love to see what a next-gen physics engine could do.

"In terms of graphics, all the consoles have already reached the maximum level," Tanimura says. "From [my] point of view, there's not that [much] difference among the consoles when it comes to graphics." In-game physics, on the other hand, is something that could still be noticeably improved. "In order to implement a physics engine, we'd need more machine power and more CPU power. That can only become possible if we were to create a game for the, for example, PlayStation 4 or Xbox One."

Dark Souls II is currently in development and edging closer to its recently-announced March 11, 2014 release date. From Software is only planning to release the game for PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360, with a PC version coming shortly afterwards. No next-gen versions are confirmed, and while it's still possible, we probably won't see Tanimura's dream of next-gen physics for a while yet.

Source: Joystiq

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Now if you could announce DS2 for PS4 with improved physics, that would be nice. :D

Totally agreed with this guy. Ever since I lifted a submerged container that didn't retain water in Halo Reach's forge world, I've been saying this very thing. I want to see dynamic physics really shine this upcoming generation. I want to redirect rivers, make waterfalls, build cities under lava and oceans, and I want to do it all in real-time, with today's graphical peak.

PC version is delayed to come out after!? Fuck my life.

Clive Howlitzer:
PC version is delayed to come out after!? Fuck my life.

They're taking some extra time to optimize the PC version. Knowing how the PC version of the first Dark Souls turned out, that's probably for the best.

So do I man... so do I...
And good AI too. Seriously, we are still at the level of STALKER when it comes down to AI at BEST (and in reality the vast majority of games are with AI from 2002). Or FEAR at least :P .

Cognimancer:

Clive Howlitzer:
PC version is delayed to come out after!? Fuck my life.

They're taking some extra time to optimize the PC version. Knowing how the PC version of the first Dark Souls turned out, that's probably for the best.

I know, but still, damn!

Charcharo:
So do I man... so do I...
And good AI too. Seriously, we are still at the level of STALKER when it comes down to AI at BEST (and in reality the vast majority of games are with AI from 2002). Or FEAR at least :P .

Hopefully with graphics plateauing we will be able get half decent AI and some physics that are a noticeable step up from Half Life 2.

Hopefully.

Yeah, graphical capacity is too resource cinsuming and with something that isn't worth it. Really they don't need to be more photorealistic. But physics? Collision detection and other details should be improved, but we are also very good in that point. Bullets fall according to gravity, Snell's law seems to be preserved and really, Newtonian mechanics and classical optics (here there might be some work to be done in some lights, but that isn't that bothersome) is more or less enough for most games. Trying to add real fluid dynamics or something more complex just seems a waste of resources too, considerig the small effects. AI, path finding, really learning could be better for the industry I think.

image

Even though I don't like Dark Souls.

But, Dark Souls's physics was so fun... where else could you kick around the body of something several times larger than you?

How about instead of thinking about next gen anything, you worry about getting stable framerates on this generation? blight town was enough of a pisser without having to do it at 15 frames per second. (gripe gripe rabble rabble)
Anyway I do actually agree with him. Graphics are fine where they are, I'm far more excited about advancing things like physics and AI, or simply the ability to do things on a large scale. (imagine something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVbeoSPqRs4 fully interactive and from the perspective of a single character)

We reached the point of diminishing returns on graphics almost a decade ago (in my option), i'm totally in agreement that better physics (and gameplay/storytelling) should be the new place to obsess about.

I have to say realistic faces have a fair bit to go, but I'd much rather see a game with realistic fluid simulation, or temperature, or AI.

Imagine an FPS where you could kill your enemies by superheating the water they were standing in.

Charcharo:
So do I man... so do I...
And good AI too. Seriously, we are still at the level of STALKER when it comes down to AI at BEST (and in reality the vast majority of games are with AI from 2002). Or FEAR at least :P .

Sounds interesting, care to elaborate?

OT: I've always hated brain-dead cannon fodder AI, even in human enemies, and we've done practically nothing groundbreaking as been done when in comes to physics other than rag dolling. Screw shoving in more polygons into a model, I want to see water ebb and flow with the tide and pour from shattered objects. Imagine if you could shoot up a massive aquarium and have the water from it wash everything out of the room (organically of course, none of this scripted nonsense).

This diminishing return nonsense is costing the AAA industry too much money while adding too little to the game.

Cognimancer:
Modern games aren't quite photorealistic, but they're getting pretty darn close.

Fine example of something you'll regret saying in five years' time. Never mind ten.

Saving for future, check. ;)

kurokotetsu:
Yeah, graphical capacity is too resource cinsuming and with something that isn't worth it. Really they don't need to be more photorealistic. But physics? Collision detection and other details should be improved, but we are also very good in that point. Bullets fall according to gravity, Snell's law seems to be preserved and really, Newtonian mechanics and classical optics (here there might be some work to be done in some lights, but that isn't that bothersome) is more or less enough for most games. Trying to add real fluid dynamics or something more complex just seems a waste of resources too, considerig the small effects. AI, path finding, really learning could be better for the industry I think.

Dude, we have barely any physics at all, there are only the very basics and whatever a certain game needs (bullet drop is fine, but the wind doesn't affect it at all, really?). Ragdoll effects are ridiculous (Souls games are a great example of how annoying it is to have a body stuck to you like it weighs as much as a feather, despite being three times your size), most terrain and medieval buildings are more resistant to explosions than a nuclear bunker, I could go on. There is PLENTY to do in the physics department and while it doesn't add much at first glance, it does in whole make the world come more alive.

I do however agree with you. Better AI is very much needed, both to make the games come alive and get away from the simplistic and silly AI we have now. But that doesn't mean we're done with physics, far from it :)

Physics that dictates gameplay tends to be a rather iffy proposition when it even works.
I think it is best left as a cosmetic wrinkle such as kicking bodies around in dark souls.
The half life 2 gravity gun did not become the status quo for a reason.

Perfect collision detection should be much more essential in a medieval weapons simulator.

Korten12:
Now if you could announce DS2 for PS4 with improved physics, that would be nice. :D

How about with improved AI? It killed DS for me. I "killed" most of the skeletons etc by holding block until they jumped off cliffs. Even dragons could be convinced to "fly" off the ledge and fall to their death. Very poor. I suppose better physics will make for more realistc falls...

I don't think all games need next-gen physics or AI, but I certainly agree with this guy that we need to spend time and money on stuff that actually affects the game, not just it's window dressing.

I totally agree with him, there is so much that can be done with better physics that it is insane, honestly I'm most excited for realistic water physics, progress is being made in that but it still has a ways to go.

As a side-note, when I read the title I immediately thought of this game: http://www.baremettle.com/

RT:
image

Even though I don't like Dark Souls.

^ Made my day.

This trailer for next gen AssCreed is like porn for physics geeks. Some of it it new stuff, some old (but overlooked) stuff, but it shows just the tip of the iceberg what next gen physics will be able to do. (http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/jac8vv/assassin-s-creed-iv--black-flag-next-gen-walkthrough)

Vrach:
Dude, we have barely any physics at all, there are only the very basics and whatever a certain game needs (bullet drop is fine, but the wind doesn't affect it at all, really?). Ragdoll effects are ridiculous (Souls games are a great example of how annoying it is to have a body stuck to you like it weighs as much as a feather, despite being three times your size), most terrain and medieval buildings are more resistant to explosions than a nuclear bunker, I could go on. There is PLENTY to do in the physics department and while it doesn't add much at first glance, it does in whole make the world come more alive.

I do however agree with you. Better AI is very much needed, both to make the games come alive and get away from the simplistic and silly AI we have now. But that doesn't mean we're done with physics, far from it :)

But basics is what is needed. Everything else is resource cunsumption in cosmetic effects and world building. Look here http://www.exteriorballistics.com/ebexplained/5th/32.cfm to see how wind affect bullets in real life. In most FPS I play, you don't have a line of sight of 600 yards, where the effect is noticiable (and still relativeley small) with a standard wind. DO you want to do those calculations all the time, which are pretty intensive and problematic? That wouldn't add much, unless you are sniping all the time in large ranges, while bullet drop is moreimportant. Ragdoll are cosmetic to my experience, and while they add to the experience, adding weight might also make things unplayable (a large corpse staying in fornt of a doorway you have to cross) while adding little to the experience. Also, I doubt your claim that medival structres are that strong (they are falling to pieces after all), while nuclear bunkers are more efficeint and has better materials. Of course there are a lot of things you could do, but it is cosmetic and world building, not that much affecting gameplay, so I think that AI is priority.

Infernal Lawyer:

Charcharo:
So do I man... so do I...
And good AI too. Seriously, we are still at the level of STALKER when it comes down to AI at BEST (and in reality the vast majority of games are with AI from 2002). Or FEAR at least :P .

Sounds interesting, care to elaborate?

OT: I've always hated brain-dead cannon fodder AI, even in human enemies, and we've done practically nothing groundbreaking as been done when in comes to physics other than rag dolling. Screw shoving in more polygons into a model, I want to see water ebb and flow with the tide and pour from shattered objects. Imagine if you could shoot up a massive aquarium and have the water from it wash everything out of the room (organically of course, none of this scripted nonsense).

This diminishing return nonsense is costing the AAA industry too much money while adding too little to the game.

Well, STALKER has probably the best overall AI in any first person game... too bad we havent advanced past it since it came out in 2007 (or 2009 if you want to count Call of Pripyat). Which is made doubly so sad by the fact that it has had that AI since 2003...

Or at the very least reach the stable level of FEAR. Current modern military shooters just have scripted and poor AI that dies easily and throws dakka left and right trying to look all cool and cinematic.

kurokotetsu:

Vrach:
Dude, we have barely any physics at all, there are only the very basics and whatever a certain game needs (bullet drop is fine, but the wind doesn't affect it at all, really?)... Most terrain and medieval buildings are more resistant to explosions than a nuclear bunker, I could go on. There is PLENTY to do in the physics department and while it doesn't add much at first glance, it does in whole make the world come more alive.

Also, I doubt your claim that medival structres are that strong (they are falling to pieces after all), while nuclear bunkers are more efficeint and has better materials. Of course there are a lot of things you could do, but it is cosmetic and world building, not that much affecting gameplay, so I think that AI is priority.

I think his point is that terrain and buildings in videogames tend to be indestructible for the sake of simplicity, even in games when you are capable of killing powerful foes. Take Borderlands (just my favorite example): By the end of the game when you've killed the biggest and baddest boss with thousands of bullets and rockets, you go back to the first stage, and nope, you STILL can't knock over a mailbox or blow up a tent, unless it was specifically scripted to crumple when you did some mission objective or other. Even in the flashiest games, programmers don't bother to breath any life into the world unless it's central to gameplay (e.g. explosive barrels) or to just shove in more polygons.

 

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