Metal Gear Solid 5's Torture Scene is Non-Playable

Metal Gear Solid 5's Torture Scene is Non-Playable

Metal Gear Solid V screen

Kojima says the scene needed to be done, but making it playable was too far.

Torture scenes in entertainment are supposed to make the viewer uncomfortable, but participating in them in the context of a videogame can be further disturbing. When the first glimpse of a torture scene in Metal Gear Solid 5 was unveiled through a trailer, whether the scene would be playable or kept to a cutscene was not clarified. Speaking to Eurogamer at the Tokyo Game Show, director Hideo Kojima said the torture scene is not playable.

When asked whether scenes of torture are necessary in videogames, Kojima said it needed to be done. "As the expressiveness of videogames goes up, if you want to go beyond that it's not something you can avoid. Of course not all videogames have to do this, and in my case it's not something I want to go through." Metal Gear Solid 5 centers around the topic of revenge, something Kojima found important to explore through torture and the emotions surrounding it.

Kojima pointed at the times the player has been the victim of torture in the series and joked, "So far the player's been tortured by Ocelot so much that I'm thinking I might be the one that introduced torture to games. So sorry about that!"

Kojima said making the torture scene playable would have been too far. Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto V caused a controversy for a playable torture scene, forcing the player to aggressively and physically question a character. The organization Freedom from Torture criticized the game for glamorizing torture.

Source: Eurogamer

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So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...

GAunderrated:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...

Wow, calm down.... All the "playability" of the torture scenes in the MGS titles have been nothing but holding a button to withstand pain.

The scene will still be there so not having to hold a button for 30 seconds isn't about MGSV "not having balls". I think you're taking this too seriously.

GAunderrated:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...

Dont worry somewhere someone will somehow be offended by something!

Film, literature and video games have had us viewing and funding murder, genocide, rape and war for as long as they have existed, in all sorts of different contexts. We can't get enough of it and we've been throwing out money at them in turn. One of my favourite plays is Macbeth and that things is rife with greed, betrayal and murder. It's a thrill! But of course video games re for children and they aren't "serious" and someone think of the children. I'm reminded of how KISS was the worst thing ever when they hit the stage, how classical music was ungodly and garish and how film was the cause of every murder up until video games came about. Give it one hundred years and video games will be high art. The prudes will have moved on to how the new medium is causing the end of the world.

Also, why can't one enjoy watching or participating in digital torture? This isn't a social trend and it's not enforcing dangerous stereotypes of race wars or violence against women. If you can't enjoy the occasional step outside common morality in a safe, knowing environment, I'm more scared of you than any video game.

I haven't reached this already controversial torture scene in GTA V yet but from what I've seen of a certain character, whom I suspect to be the culprit, I can definitely say that none of his violence is glamorised. I'm quite effectively repulsed. I don't expect to take torture lightly in this game or any other.

You could attack the PS1's own Metal Gear Solid for trivialising torture. After all you only have to mash a button for a short time to withstand the pain. Yeah, I'm sure it's all that simple. It cuts both ways.

roseofbattle:
snip

Since when is anything playable in MGS?

Proverbial Jon:
You could attack the PS1's own Metal Gear Solid for trivialising torture. After all you only have to mash a button for a short time to withstand the pain. Yeah, I'm sure it's all that simple. It cuts both ways.

Dude, did you play MGS? It wasn't trivialising torture, it was torture, that scene gave me wanker's wrist and I didn't even know what wanking meant when the damn game came out!

On a less disgusting thought, I can't think of many games beyond MGS where you play as both the torturer and the victim. #the many and varied horrors you can visit on the guards coming back to roost when you're strapped up to the electric whatever it was (table?) with the fabulous revolver man tweaking knobs.

It's a pretty unusual approach to take the player out of a position of power.

roseofbattle:
Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto V caused a controversy for a playable torture scene, forcing the player to aggressively and physically question a character. The organization Freedom from Torture criticized the game for glamorizing torture.

Anyone who has played through that bit knows that there was absolutely ZERO glamorizing going on there. The whole point of that scene, the other mission bits paired with it, and the conversation afterwards was to do the opposite, showing that actual torture was completely ineffectual for obtaining information, and anyone who has done it and says that it is necessary is full of shit and just gets off on it.

GOD I wish these places making news about it would actually take the material in context. This is exactly as if they'd said Spec Ops: The Line was a video game that glamorized burning refugees to death with white phosphorous.

AzrealMaximillion:

GAunderrated:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...

Wow, calm down.... All the "playability" of the torture scenes in the MGS titles have been nothing but holding a button to withstand pain.

The scene will still be there so not having to hold a button for 30 seconds isn't about MGSV "not having balls". I think you're taking this too seriously.

Not sure why you thought I would be angry and need to calm down. I wasn't yelling or using caps. lol.

Yes in the past the torture scenes have been about mashing the X button but that does not mean that after a decade they would follow the same formula.

But I stand by my statement. They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.

That way they don't have to rip out gameplay to appease a loud minority. But the way they are going about it right now is just some cheap PR move that anyone with a working brain can see right through.

MGS torture was fine because it had a purpose, it changed the games ending. You were ether good enough (or masshy enough anyway) to save Merrill or you gave her up (or you died, in which case she still died).

Playable torture is fine IMO as long as it has a point.

If it's just something that happens in the game (a normal unchangeable part of the story) then you might as well make it a cutscene.

GAunderrated:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...

roseofbattle:
"Of course not all videogames have to do this, and in my case it's not something I want to go through." Metal Gear Solid 5 centers around the topic of revenge, something Kojima found important to explore through torture and the emotions surrounding it.

I think you're misinterpreting that. In games like GTAV where you torture, it's really up to you how you feel participating in it. Everyone has a different reaction. He's not trying to appeal to mass market, he just wants to lead us down a specific set of feelings. He feels this requires taking control away from the player.

GAunderrated:

But I stand by my statement. They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.

Unless I see a direct quote from Kojima stating that, I'm actually more under the impression that it was simply a relevant anecdote that the author of this article added to provide a little more context on the subject of "torture in video games".

I'd be perfectly happy to rescind that stance if you can provide me with evidence otherwise, though.

OT: I dunno, I wouldn't say those button-mashing sequences were anything resembling "enjoyable", but they did add a certain something to the Metal Gear Solid games. I'm still a little more interested in how all of the elements of MGSV are really going to effectively gel together, though, if I'm honest. Seems like Kojima is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. Not that he's never done that before, and I imagine I'd enjoy the game anyway, but still.

GAunderrated:

AzrealMaximillion:

GAunderrated:
So MGSV will have no balls and is making sure to "appeal to everyone" by trying to avoid anything that might be offensive. Welp...

Wow, calm down.... All the "playability" of the torture scenes in the MGS titles have been nothing but holding a button to withstand pain.

The scene will still be there so not having to hold a button for 30 seconds isn't about MGSV "not having balls". I think you're taking this too seriously.

Not sure why you thought I would be angry and need to calm down. I wasn't yelling or using caps. lol.

Yes in the past the torture scenes have been about mashing the X button but that does not mean that after a decade they would follow the same formula.

But I stand by my statement. They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.

That way they don't have to rip out gameplay to appease a loud minority. But the way they are going about it right now is just some cheap PR move that anyone with a working brain can see right through.

If you can provide evidence that Kojima Productions took out a part of the game where you mash the X button for 30 seconds to "appease the masses", please let me know. I highly doubt that removing the mash X button and keeping the full torture scene in the game really doesn't seem like appeasing the mass market to me.

That's like saying that removing the "renegade action" and "paragon action" button prompts from Mass Effect 2 and 3 would ruin the integrity of the morality system as a whole.

Wait... what?

Have I been transported, somehow, to an alternate dimension where this game never happened? You have to torture people just to get your health back. I find torture to be unpalatable normally, but this game actually made it a boring chore. Suffocating people felt like working for the weekend.

You don't have to go easy on us!

GAunderrated:
They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.

You uh... you don't think that scene might have already been finished by this point? In fact, probably well before GTAV released? (I didn't even know it had a torture scene.)

I mean... if it's only a cutscene, chances are it's been done for a while now.

Kojima probably wants to convey this torture differently than he has in past games. Previously, the player character would writhe around and grunt as you mashed the Action Button™, which in my opinion mitigates the impact that actual torture carries.

Good because fuck you Peace Walker.

mysecondlife:
Good because fuck you Peace Walker.

Fun fact: The Japanese version of Peace Walker has tickle sticks instead of electrocution.

Id just like to point out that MGS3 had a non-playable torture scene as well.

Actually two, if you count what Ocelot does with three revolvers and one bullet as torture.

Speaking of uncomfortable torture scenes, the scene in whichever game where Vulgan is beating the snot out of Snake?
That almost made me sick. Barely any blood, no guts, but it was so gut wrenchingly brutal I almost literally felt ill.

I remember that torture scene in the Splinter cell Blacklist gameplay demo, man it wasn't pretty. And I fucking remember Peace Walker, uhg! Fuck you Dr. Strangelove.

I'm glad it's only a cutscene, not every game should have a torture scene I agree, but it's Kojima's creation and who are we to tell him what he cannot put in there?

Berny Marcus:
I remember that torture scene in the Splinter cell Blacklist gameplay demo, man it wasn't pretty. And I fucking remember Peace Walker, uhg! Fuck you Dr. Strangelove.

I'm glad it's only a cutscene, not every game should have a torture scene I agree, but it's Kojima's creation and who are we to tell him what he cannot put in there?

I agree fuck you Dr. Strangelove. I just can't do that mission every again...at all man :(

Meh, seems stupid. It's the hot button issue for the next month. Then can we go back to calling every game with an attractive girl misogynistic? Those are much more interesting debates. No normal person considers torture a good thing, and this isn't going to teach a generation of gamers that it's Ok to torture someone. I'm still a fan of the idea that if you don't like something, and it's not actually hurting anyone, you should just move the fuck along and pay it no mind. I do it all the time, it's actually pretty liberating.

Nobody seems to remember the playable torture scene in CoD Black Ops. I for one ENJOYED putting glass in that guys mouth and punching him in the jaw.

BoredRolePlayer:

I agree fuck you Dr. Strangelove. I just can't do that mission every again...at all man :(

Strange, I played through Peace Walker twice and I couldn't even recall that scene until I looked it up.

Goes to show how mundane it's become. That's the problem with having 'traditions': at first it's like "whoa, a cyborg ninja! Where did that come from?!" and "Oh geez, I'm being tortured!" but by the sixth time it would be more of a surprise if there wasn't a part where you get tortured.

James Joseph Emerald:

BoredRolePlayer:

I agree fuck you Dr. Strangelove. I just can't do that mission every again...at all man :(

Strange, I played through Peace Walker twice and I couldn't even recall that scene until I looked it up.

Goes to show how mundane it's become. That's the problem with having 'traditions': at first it's like "whoa, a cyborg ninja! Where did that come from?!" and "Oh geez, I'm being tortured!" but by the sixth time it would be more of a surprise if there wasn't a part where you get tortured.

I'm glad I played it on my PS3 instead of my PSP cause that scene would have made me chucked out my psp out the window.

Considering that over 60% of any MGS game is cutscenes, this doesn't surprise me.

Pretttttty sure that if Spec Ops: The Line managed to make everything the player does/goes through in the game playable, we could have survived a playable torture scene.

The_Echo:

GAunderrated:
They are only stating this because of the GTAV controversy and they are afraid that someone might not buy the game if they have anything remotely similar. Truth is they should of just had a compromise like MW2 did and make it optional.

You uh... you don't think that scene might have already been finished by this point? In fact, probably well before GTAV released? (I didn't even know it had a torture scene.)

I mean... if it's only a cutscene, chances are it's been done for a while now.

Kojima probably wants to convey this torture differently than he has in past games. Previously, the player character would writhe around and grunt as you mashed the Action Button™, which in my opinion mitigates the impact that actual torture carries.

it is a woman being tortured an not a man so the "torture porn" would have been thrown around and probably still will be thrown around.

What is the obsession with torture scenes in cut scenes nowadays. it seems we had this controversy like 5 times this year. Is gaming catching up with our culture finally and are able to shake off taboos? Now what we need is to stop the invincible children and no sex scenes (ME already working towards that i hear) taboos.

rbstewart7263:

it is a woman being tortured <...> so the "torture porn"

You just sold me the game.
I kid of course, but there will be people like this. After all, these torture porn horror movies are popular (and i like them).

 

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