Team Meat Designer Says Steam Controller is a "Good Start"

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Team Meat Designer Says Steam Controller is a "Good Start"

Steam controller

"If you were to ask me to choose between Steam Controller and a 360 controller, I would choose 360."

Team Meat's Tommy Refenes is one of the privileged few who has had a chance to demo Valve's fancy-new Steam controller. Anyone who has ever played Team Meat's signature game: Super Meat Boy know that precision is everything in the game, and Refenes himself is someone who is very particular about his controllers. His overall assessment of Valve's controller is that it is a "good start," but ultimately, not enough to trounce Microsoft's Xbox 360 controller.

"If you were to ask me if I would play games with the Steam Controller...I would say yes. If you were to ask me to choose between Steam Controller and a 360 controller, I would choose 360. Don't take that as slight to the controller though because it's more about the comfort of familiarity over functionality."

Refenes talks about his controller pickyness on his official blog. "I hated playing the PS3 when it first came out because the SixAxis had no DualShock in them and were too light. I didn't fully play any PS3 games until I bought a DualShock3 SixAxis controller. I didn't even bother with the Ouya controller because if other people are reporting latency problems, I know for a fact I will experience them."

As for the Steam controller, Refenes said that he did enjoy it, but "The big problem with touch pads/ touch screens is you never know when you are actually over a button or pressing it. Valve has tried to rectify this by having some adjustable haptic feedback fire when you press one of the circle pads. Throughout my play session the haptic feedback helped with the problem, but wasn't enough to solve it."

He suggests adding small nubs to the controller, similar to the nubs on the F and J keys of every standard keyboard, to help remedy this problem.

"TL;DR; Great Start, needs some improvements, but I could play any game I wanted with it just fine."

Source: VG24/7

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Thing is, this is an option, by the sounds of it, no one has to use it unless they want to do without a mouse and keyboard setup, or a regular controller setup. I like options, and I will give this controller a shot anyway. But at least they're attempting something new with this hardware, as silly as the thing looks.

He said a few other things, like "If all controllers except this one disappeared tomorrow, that wouldn't be a bad thing".

He also said he'd stick with the Xbox 360 controller more out of familiarity than anything else.

On the whole, it seems like a great start for a company that has no experience in hardware.

From Tommy's blog: "If you were to ask me if I would play games with the Steam Controller...I would say yes. If you were to ask me to choose between Steam Controller and a 360 controller, I would choose 360. Don't take that as slight to the controller though because it's more about the comfort of familiarity over functionality. I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat. I'm excited to see what final hardware feels like because I think with the upcoming iterations of the controller we'll see something that is different, but still feels good."

Ehh, he also said Super Meat Boy was better with a control pad and I kicked its ass on the keyboard.

lacktheknack:
He said a few other things, like "If all controllers except this one disappeared tomorrow, that wouldn't be a bad thing".

He also said he'd stick with the Xbox 360 controller more out of familiarity than anything else.

On the whole, it seems like a great start for a company that has no experience in hardware.

Indeed it's not a bad start and everything so far going smoothly, but I can't help but feel that quote if it were true, Steam's gamepad being the only gamepad left in the world would then imply Darwinism (survival of the fittest in this case) where some gamepad users would not be able to adapt to the last remaining gamepad (just like how some K+M only users cannot seem to adapt to a gamepad as a few have mentioned on this site before) and thus end up having to adapt to K+M if they had not done so before and if they couldn't even manage that then they'd end up left out of the gaming scene due to lack of more gamepads (which the world should always need, never have just the one of anything).

But I know that will never really happen of course but his quote itched my brain for a few seconds on me pondering a world with only K+M and the Steam gamepad.

Come to think of it I really feel like starting a gaming evolution and darwinism thread about gaming in general because I'm feeling an odd shift that will come about in the future thanks to Gabe and I'm not exactly 100% all for it.

I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

Can we please see a review from someone who doesn't live on planet Kiss Ass?

I think his idea for keyboard-like nubs is a good one. Its always good to have more physical interaction with the controls than less.

Oh yes cause I LOVE the 360 controller....

Honestly are we just going to ignore the terrible parts of the 360 controller and how a good deal of the design is flawed? Do I have to mention the D-Pad? Thing was just slapped on there and you can't get is just sub-optimal at best. Hell even NINTENDO still does the basic D-Pad justice after all these years.

Honestly the STEAM controller looks to have a lot of potential problems but then again I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the controller is trying to fill or solve for a category of games.

It's hard to make judgement on a controller that I haven't used, but really, the controller looks more awkward than anything. But hey, if it works, by all means, I'd use it. But those face buttons really bother me...

So the only thing we learn here is that the "haptic feedback" is more show less tell, well a couple thousand more reviews like this and we might actually get about half the info we need on the controller.

Or if Valve decides to give them away for free... we wouldn't really object.

Psychobabble:
I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

Can we please see a review from someone who doesn't live on planet Kiss Ass?

Wow you couldn't have missed the point more if you had tried.

He says its good, and that he likes it, but the fact that he has thousands more hours with the 360 controller means that the 360 controller is going to be his natural choice.

This should say something because he wouldn't pick up another controller as it was too light and didn't rumble in his hands.

Desert Punk:

Psychobabble:
I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

Can we please see a review from someone who doesn't live on planet Kiss Ass?

Wow you couldn't have missed the point more if you had tried.

He says its good, and that he likes it, but the fact that he has thousands more hours with the 360 controller means that the 360 controller is going to be his natural choice.

This should say something because he wouldn't pick up another controller as it was too light and didn't rumble in his hands.

No you missed the point as he went on to say it wouldn't matter or be a bad thing for the industry if every controller save the Steam controller disappeared tomorrow, even though he still prefers the 360 controller over the Steam one. Which sounds like so much rhetorical bullshit to me, seemingly said only to avoid giving offense to the "Gods" at Valve.

Saying he prefers to stick with what's familiar but then turning around and saying the industry would benefit from being dominated by this technology is not only contradiction but patently absurd.

Is there any particular reason why they opted for touch controls when they could have used two analouge sticks? It seems like a very odd design choice. To save money or does it offer something an analouge stick doesn't?

Tenmar:
Oh yes cause I LOVE the 360 controller....

Honestly are we just going to ignore the terrible parts of the 360 controller and how a good deal of the design is flawed? Do I have to mention the D-Pad? Thing was just slapped on there and you can't get is just sub-optimal at best. Hell even NINTENDO still does the basic D-Pad justice after all these years.

Honestly the STEAM controller looks to have a lot of potential problems but then again I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the controller is trying to fill or solve for a category of games.

IIRC Nintendo has a patent on the single-piece cross shaped d-pad, which is why Sony's is split into sections and the XBox's d-pad is a flaming piece of trash. However, that patent is about to expire so Nintendo will no longer monopolize that particular shape of d-pad.

Anyway, through all the comments I'm surprised at how few people have experienced modern haptic feedback. A lot of modern cellphones at least incorporate a low level form of haptic feedback to make typing more comfortable. It's not just vibration, and it's not quite force feedback of a button. I wish I had my hands on this controller to try it out. However, it looks bulky for my smallish hands and the XBox 360 controllers are already on the upper end of acceptable bulkiness. Plus those extra 4 buttons on the back that aren't shoulder buttons seem like they'll cause hand cramps, or at the very least be awkward to press. I am cautiously optimistic, though I have no interest in the Steam Box itself.

Redlin5:
I think his idea for keyboard-like nubs is a good one. Its always good to have more physical interaction with the controls than less.

I agree with that point as it would help to locate the default position where your thumbs are meant to rest on the controllers trackpads.

Feedback would be the main reason I'd avoid something like this at the moment - would have to hear a lot of noise to the contrary to give it a shot (when it releases of course). Used to use a netbook regularly and the touch pad on that was awful compared to a mouse. I presume the track pads of the steam controller will - unlike my crappy netbook - account for the force applied, it's still not an exciting proposition to me.

The dual analog sticks served me well for every title on the 360, and whilst not suited for titles such as Red Alert 3 and Halo Wars, control groups and snap selection at least made an effort to combat it. Will the steam controller be precise enough to compete with a mouse there? Well, even if it is, people like familiarity, which brings me to think that the best way to get people to try the controller is to bundle it with Steamboxes.

Psychobabble:
I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

Hum, that's not at all the way I understand what he's saying. The way I parse his sentence, I don't think he meant: "if everything else was wiped out, it would be nice to have the steam controller", but rather "it would be nice if everything else was wiped out and we had the Steam controller".

But at any rate, I'd take comments from the authors of SMB with a huge grain of salt. They're the guys I know mainly for buying one of their games on Steam for hardly more than a buck (that supposedly worked with K+M), and who have ever since been displaying me unskippable splash screens, every time I start their game, questioning my personal hygiene because I don't want to buy and use a controller that would cost ten times the price of their games. I wish I made that up. Supposedly because it plays better than a keyboard, of which I doubt (and so do some other of my friends who have played the game a LOT more than I, with both keyboard and controller).

PS/EDIT : Wow, I just reat the whole stuff. Should have started with this. That's... informative. Also : I though Valve had exceptional hackers before, turns out I underestimated them. Just read the whole interview and make your own opinion, though.

everyone needs to stop and think for a minute. whats it designed for.. playing pc games streamed to a steam box which would normally used a mouse and keyboard interface. looks like they are trying to marry up both control systems of the pc and console into one

MrBaskerville:
Is there any particular reason why they opted for touch controls when they could have used two analouge sticks? It seems like a very odd design choice. To save money or does it offer something an analouge stick doesn't?

I think it is probably more expensive that way, so they didn't do it for cost reasons. I think the main reason was that sticks severely lack precision, which means that current console games need to do a lot of aim assist, acceleration boosts, etc. so you can actually hit something. Strategy games aren't great for controllers either and the ones who tried, e.g. RUSE, tended to drastically reduce micro and gameplay complexity. Keyboards on the other hand often lack in movement control (e.g. slow/fast walking of your character, fast/slow turning of race cars...).

From what I read it has nearly the precision of a mouse, so let's see how it works out. When done right it could combine the best things about controllers and mice into one.

My god. A review that isn't 100% Valve worship!

It's nice to have confirmation that the track pads can function as button sets. I did wonder how they'd compensate for the lack of a d-pad.

I'm looking forward to somebody reviewing it with the touch screen on. I'm thinking games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age could use it for ability/spell/power selection instead of having a radial wheel or hotbar.

I really hope I get into beta test this. I'm honestly very excited for this controller, as I loathe using Analog sticks. Too much time with the KB+M aiming with a joystick is impossible for me.

Psychobabble:
I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

Can we please see a review from someone who doesn't live on planet Kiss Ass?

Not to be a broken record but I think you misunderstood what he said.

Take this real life analogy as an example.
I desperately want to buy a new car, I have test driven many makes and models and found a list of cars I would like to buy. If you were to offer me the choice to go on a road trip in one of those new cars or my old car I will pick my old car every time. I know its temperament, how it moves, am familiar with every noise it makes, and everything I do feels natural in it.

I am not bashing the newer cars, by all means they are more reliable, have more useful features, and are generally better in every field than my current car. If I were to review the newer cars I would rate them highly and probably talk about how certain things are better than my old car. However I am more comfortable in my old car because I have been driving it far longer. If my car were to spontaneously combust tomorrow I would go out and get one of the newer cars.

That is pretty much the feel I got from the piece of text you quoted.

Psychobabble:
I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

Can we please see a review from someone who doesn't live on planet Kiss Ass?

I think that what he's saying is that he prefers the 360 only because he's use to it, just as I prefer Playstation over xbox as I'm use to them. Basically hes trying to say its a good controller and he'd be happy to use it but he prefers the 360 out of familiarity

I think Meat boy is a pointless game to test it on. They need to hurry up and have someone use Civ or Total war with the steam controller because those are the only games i play with keyboard and mouse. The rest i get on the 360.I tried command and conquer on the 360 and it was a pain in the ass to control. Now I know you can get used to it, but why get used to something for the sake of it when K&M just plain works better.

So lets hope we get more relevant comments for actual developers and players of rts games using the controller.

Psychobabble:

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That's not what he's saying at all. He said that he'd prefer a 360 controller because that's what he's used to using, but if Steam Controllers were suddenly all that's left he wouldn't really care. A better analogy would be to say "This prosthetic hand is nice, but I'm used to my normal hand. If I lost my hands tomorrow and had to get a prosthetic, I wouldn't really mind or notice."

MrBaskerville:
Is there any particular reason why they opted for touch controls when they could have used two analouge sticks? It seems like a very odd design choice. To save money or does it offer something an analouge stick doesn't?

Analogue sticks don't to absolute position tracking like a mouse or trackpad/trackball does. Thumbsticks are primarily used to control velocity and not position. This trackpad can be configured to track either absolute position, like a mouse, or be configured to control velocity, like a thumbstick, depending on how the touch input is configured by the game developer.

Worgen:
Ehh, he also said Super Meat Boy was better with a control pad and I kicked its ass on the keyboard.

The real kicker is that SMB treats all controls as digital input meaning that the thumbstick provide no meaningful addition to the fidelity of the input than 4 digital direction buttons (such as 'W', 'A', 'S', and 'D') (Also the digital direction pad on the 360 controller is garbage, but we already know that). In fact, using the thumbstick to drive 4 digital direction buttons is less precise than using 4 real buttons.

Since SMB doesn't have any real analogue controls, I don't think it is the best game to based a Steam controller analysis on.

Psychobabble:

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

No, he implies that the Steam controller in fact, does provide the same input fidelity and control as existing controllers. However, he says the lack of tactile nubs on the face of the trackpad makes him feel uncomfortable in the same way that the lightness of the PS3 controller did.

In simpler terms he is saying that he is picky, he is saying he dislikes the Steam controller, not because of technical reasons, but only because he is picky and likes the familiar.

Saying he prefers to stick with what's familiar but then turning around and saying the industry would benefit from being dominated by this technology is not only contradiction but patently absurd.

He only said that it would not hurt the industry. This implies that he believes the Steam controller is a sufficient replacement to all other control schemes and matches the capabilities of all of them.

Arcanist:

That's not what he's saying at all. He said that he'd prefer a 360 controller because that's what he's used to using, but if Steam Controllers were suddenly all that's left he wouldn't really care. A better analogy would be to say "This prosthetic hand is nice, but I'm used to my normal hand. If I lost my hands tomorrow and had to get a prosthetic, I wouldn't really mind or notice."

And by prosthetics, I assume, you mean something out of DeusEx:HR type of prosthetics that can give full function replacement.

There are a lot of people who want the controller to be crap, because it will make the console industry look like a joke, if a company that has never released any sort of hardware comes along and revolutionized how we think of video game controllers.

synobal:
There are a lot of people who want the controller to be crap, because it will make the console industry look like a joke, if a company that has never released any sort of hardware comes along and revolutionized how we think of video game controllers.

Actually those "few" of us here actually bothering to question the controllers capabilities want it to not only be good, but be a step forward in the technology. In other words we'd like it to be "better" than current offerings instead of just a different spin on what's already out there.

And so far it's not looking like it is.

Not going to quote all of you who disagree with me, but feel free to interperate the man's comments as you will. To me what he said is a backhanded compliment at best. It doesn't mean it's a bad controller, just that it doesn't do anything better than technology he already has. And stop with the "he's just used to that other controller" malarkey. If he truly felt the Steam controller was a viable contender, or more importantly a welcomed upgrade, he'd be willing to step out of his comfort zone to learn to use it.

Now I'm not just talking out my ass, I'm speaking from my own experience with new technology. For years I loved the SNES controller to death. With a USB adapter it filled all of my computer gaming joystick needs. Then one day at a friends house I had to use a 360 controller. To my surprise I found it quite enjoyable to use, and went out and bought one as it felt like a step up from my beloved SNES controller. The same goes for my trackball mouse and Merc Stealth keyboard. Both which have a bit of a learning curve to get used to but are so worth it as they provide a much better gaming experience than what was previously offered.

So far from I've seen the Steam controller is just looking like a more funky and difficult way of doing what we've always been doing. Now keep in mind that is just an educated guess as I've not had the opportunity to have a hands on inspection. My opinion may change drastically when I get a chance to use one myself. However so far I'm getting the same vibe I did from the Razer Naga, a device that looked wonderful on paper but for me in actual use turned out to be an uncomfortable and overcomplicated, not to mention hellishly expensive, way to do the same thing I could already do with my existing keyboard and mouse. And turned out, at least for me, to be an entirely pointless evolutionary culdesac.

Well, opinions are like asses - everybody's got one. They're also divided and full of shit. I quite like the non-dualshock PS3 controller, BECAUSE it's light and doesn't have rumble. The lightness and lack of rumble makes it easy to forget about, so you feel like controlling the game with your mind rather than with a controller that constantly reminds you that it's there.

What negative tagline for a relatively positive review, also clearly the nubs have been added since he used it.

The best bit of information from this was that the trackpads can function as normal buttons, as a lack of a Dpad was the thing that made me most not want to use one of these, however if it can be enabled to act on button presses instead of just touch I think I could adjust.

Can't wait to give these track pads a go as I feel everyone in the world telling me how they are won't make a difference to whether I like them or not, so I'll just wait till I get my hands on one to see if I want one. Not that I even need a controller, I have enough sticking out of this machine as it is, just want to satisfy my curiosity.

Tenmar:

Honestly are we just going to ignore the terrible parts of the 360 controller and how a good deal of the design is flawed? Do I have to mention the D-Pad? Thing was just slapped on there and you can't get is just sub-optimal at best.

So the bad part of a 360 controller is something the Steamtroller doesn't even have? Yes, I can see that being a point in favour of the Steamtroller.

Hell even NINTENDO still does the basic D-Pad justice after all these years.

I should hope so; they had a patent on the damn thing after all.

Dr_Fred:
and who have ever since been displaying me unskippable splash screens, every time I start their game, questioning my personal hygiene because I don't want to buy and use a controller that would cost ten times the price of their games. I wish I made that up.

Well, you sort of did make that up. Saying that a controller is optional, but so is bathing is making a comparison, not saying that PC gamers don't bathe.

It amazes me how many people immediately got offended by that. Comprehension is a good thing.

wombat_of_war:
everyone needs to stop and think for a minute. whats it designed for.. playing pc games streamed to a steam box which would normally used a mouse and keyboard interface. looks like they are trying to marry up both control systems of the pc and console into one

Streaming to a Steam Box which is part of their Big Picture program which pushes controller compatibility.

You missed that part.

Zachary Amaranth:

Dr_Fred:
and who have ever since been displaying me unskippable splash screens, every time I start their game, questioning my personal hygiene because I don't want to buy and use a controller that would cost ten times the price of their games. I wish I made that up.

Well, you sort of did make that up. Saying that a controller is optional, but so is bathing is making a comparison, not saying that PC gamers don't bathe.

It amazes me how many people immediately got offended by that. Comprehension is a good thing.

Well, as you say yourself, it is indeed "making a comparison". A comparison between "using a gamepad" and "bathing". Therefore implying that there is something to be compared between these two statements, an idea which is reinforced by the "think about it" statement that follows. Since no other context is given, besides the other random splash screen messages, it seems we have to come up with an explanation for this parallel. What is the principal defining characteristic of using a controller ? According to the other splash screen, it may be that it's the right thing to do. We know (from living in a human society) that this is also the case for bathing. Therefore this must be the parallel that the developpers wanted to draw. Therefore they are implying that, like those who choose not to bathe, I choose wrong. Therefore they are comparing me with people who do not bathe. And I do not like that, because I feel that the comparison is uncalled for.

I'll grant you that "questioning my personal hygiene" is kind of a stretch from "comparing me with people who have no personal hygiene". But it's not a big stretch, and if you start to systematically impose to people around you comparisons between them and things that they don't like or even despise, you really shouldn't be amazed at how quickly they're going to take offense.

...well, anyway, it's ofensive, that's what I'm saying, and that's why I took offense. Sorry for the somewhat lenghty explanation, but as you said that comprehension is a good thing, I wanted to make my reasonning clear on this one. I'm also going to risk hypothesizing that the other people who took offense followed more or less the same kind of reasonning.

Dr_Fred:

Psychobabble:
I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

Hum, that's not at all the way I understand what he's saying. The way I parse his sentence, I don't think he meant: "if everything else was wiped out, it would be nice to have the steam controller", but rather "it would be nice if everything else was wiped out and we had the Steam controller".

But at any rate, I'd take comments from the authors of SMB with a huge grain of salt. They're the guys I know mainly for buying one of their games on Steam for hardly more than a buck (that supposedly worked with K+M), and who have ever since been displaying me unskippable splash screens, every time I start their game, questioning my personal hygiene because I don't want to buy and use a controller that would cost ten times the price of their games. I wish I made that up. Supposedly because it plays better than a keyboard, of which I doubt (and so do some other of my friends who have played the game a LOT more than I, with both keyboard and controller).

PS/EDIT : Wow, I just reat the whole stuff. Should have started with this. That's... informative. Also : I though Valve had exceptional hackers before, turns out I underestimated them. Just read the whole interview and make your own opinion, though.

They say that its better to use a gamepad because majority of people fine platformers easier on a gamepad (and not just console gamers). Because its a precision platformer, a gamepad is going to be the best way to play for most people. Honestly, aside from strategy games and shooters, KB&M is not the best.

Psychobabble:
I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

His argument is more like: "I am used to 360, so i will use 360 because im used to it but i actually think steams one is better, except different so we are not used to it".
Whcih basicalyl says that he would use 360 only because of familiarity and thinks steams one is more functional as a machine. which is something i think we will be having a problem with in rela life. many people wont like it simply becuase its different and not evne give it a chance. heck, i have controllers a chance. didnt work for me, but i gave them a chance. how many of people who already use 360 controller are going to give this a chance before writing it off?

MrBaskerville:
Is there any particular reason why they opted for touch controls when they could have used two analouge sticks? It seems like a very odd design choice. To save money or does it offer something an analouge stick doesn't?

Supposedly you can both move your finger in it AND press it as buttons. also it seems that the shape of it is going to be more confortable (the disc is shaped like natural thumb movement, while the analogue sticks are opposite) and thus may be less weary on your hands. and probbly a thousand mroe reasons valve had that we dont know about.

Rainbow_Dashtruction:

They say that its better to use a gamepad because majority of people fine platformers easier on a gamepad (and not just console gamers). Because its a precision platformer, a gamepad is going to be the best way to play for most people. Honestly, aside from strategy games and shooters, KB&M is not the best.

I wholeheartedly disagree. KB&M is the best in everything but racing games, in which you should have a wheel anyway.

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