Kingdom Hearts Director: PS4 is "Too Much"

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KazeAizen:

Belive me, I'm a massive fan of Nintendo's games and I was "this" close to say something related on the subject, but around these parts, Nintendo isn't very popular :/ (at least the Wii or Wii U).

Fox12:

Ponyholder:

Fox12:
Nomura on Ps3: It's taking me a decade to make one game because the system isn't strong enough for me to make the game I want to make. It can't support Versus 13 as is.

Nomura on PS4: It's got too much power, I don't know what to do with it. Now the expectations are too high.

Mr. Nomura, it's not Sony's fault that expectations are too high for you decade long super game... I like your former stuff, but seriously, pull yourself together and finish a project for once.

"finish a project for once."? What? He just finished a project and it was released last month. A year ago Dream Drop Distance also released. There was another Kingdom Hearts game a year before that as well!

Nomura is too spread out, and in a way, this symbolizes everything wrong with Square right now. Too many minor spinoffs and not nearly enough major console releases. Many fans wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to be released, but eight years later they haven't even STARTED making the game. All we've seen was the tech demo. Why the wait? Oh yeah, because the team that makes KH is busy making Final Fantasy Versus 13... a game that was announced when the PS3 was released, and is still in development. Since then THREE ff13 games have been released, all failing to meet Squares expectations. He's since worked on multiple hand held titles, none of which meet his normal quality, while his two biggest projects, KH3 and FF Versus, sit in developmental hell. If he focused on one major project at a time this wouldn't be the confusing mess it is.

Now, most of this I blame on the former president, since I have to assume he was probably responsible for much of the confusion. I don't remember Nomura having this problem before. The Kingdom Hearts spin-offs are decent appetizers, but the fans are ready for some meat.

Which obviously the new President is quickly rectifying.

FF Versus XIII is now finally being pushed out the door. Final Fantasy XIV got a from the ground up rebuild. Kingdom Hearts 3 finally has content to show and is in development which is far more then can be said for Valve and Half Life 3. Also I think people undercut the Final Fantasy XIII saga. XIII-1 in retrospect was not bad but not good either. XIII-2 on the other hand was such a solid game and did what a sequel should do. Expand on the original and fix what was wrong which it does on so many levels. A truly good Final Fantasy game. Anyway he's on point now. Besides the 1.5 and 2.5 releases are a sign of good will I think. I mean they are finally releasing the Final Mix versions of the KH games to the rest of the world. Those two games will prove it or not but I think its safe to say Square Enix is back on point and doing the right thing.

SupahGamuh:

KazeAizen:

Belive me, I'm a massive fan of Nintendo's games and I was "this" close to say something related on the subject, but around these parts, Nintendo isn't very popular :/ (at least the Wii or Wii U).

Its a shame too. The first party titles on the Wii are so good that it totally justifies getting one for those alone. As for the Wii U its only problem is lack of content which is slowly being fixed with stuff like Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2. I think people are just to dang hard on them. I mean its not like the tried destroy ownership or make their console like a PC like other guys tried to do. Hopefully between Platinum and their growing indie market Nintendo will gain a little respect back.

Seriously though Platinum seems to be Nintendo finally finding their Rareware again. Now if only they could get Commcept on their team exclusively they'd have two winners. Though that second one won't happen probably.

SupahGamuh:

Arawn:
Didn't another game developer say the same thing? More power means more money and work for the company. As before I'm confused, but I'm guessing they're used to the previous build and are outside of their comfort zones. Which is good. That means we might see some innovation since they're not relying on their older skills. Change or die.

The devs of the new Killzone said that more power on the PS4 means more work and more budget.

Personally I think it's total BS, just because you have "more", doesn't mean these stupid devs need to squeeze every GB available, for once, I'd just like a console game with fun and tight gameplay that runs on 1080p at 60 fps, doesn't matter if it has the latest shaders and what have you.

Yeah, that's the one. In that one they equated the more man power would be required and thus more costs. They want to squeeze everything they can out of the system. I recall a reviewer of the systems claiming they barely look better than the current gen. So even if they squeeze it's going to be marginal improvement. Getting games more and more realistic isn't going to look much better than what we already have seen they said. Still it's worth a try. I hope they put just as much effort into making the game's system/mechanics just as engaging. Who cares if I can count each hair on their head, or smoke that moves when you touch it. Still it's Kingdom Hearts so we don't have to worry about that level of realism. It's going to be the usual cartoon goodness.

Yuuki:
Since PS4 harddrive is freely swappable, I'm thinking it's best to throw an SSD inside and let the operating system (plus most frequently-played games) install onto it. It will really FLY if that is possible, removing one of my biggest gripes with consoles - loading times!

I think most console players have become so used to sitting idly through 30-60sec loading screens that they don't even notice it anymore, which is sad because during the cartridge/cassette era loading times were almost non-existent.

Loading screens aren't that bad(overall). I for one have never experienced a 60+ second loading time, but I guess it's possible. On PC I can get a 5-15 second loading screen; where on most console games about barely double (and that's being generous). The bigger and more extensive games get you're going to see a slight wait. Being seamless would be nice, but doubtful. Let's be honest; people aren't patient anymore. If it's not now, it's too long. Heck I know people that don't even bother to read the game manuals when they first install/boot a game. Not that many publishers include much of a manual nowadays; tutorial level ftw.

KazeAizen:

SupahGamuh:

Arawn:
Didn't another game developer say the same thing? More power means more money and work for the company. As before I'm confused, but I'm guessing they're used to the previous build and are outside of their comfort zones. Which is good. That means we might see some innovation since they're not relying on their older skills. Change or die.

The devs of the new Killzone said that more power on the PS4 means more work and more budget.

Personally I think it's total BS, just because you have "more", doesn't mean these stupid devs need to squeeze every GB available, for once, I'd just like a console game with fun and tight gameplay that runs on 1080p at 60 fps, doesn't matter if it has the latest shaders and what have you.

Then convert to the Wii U and start playing Nintendo games. :)

people would rather let the mainstream console industry die rather than do that

and i think they plan to make good on that threat

Is there some unwritten law somewhere that says "if a platform has x power thou MUST use it in totality!" ? Papers Please or many smaller games don't need a super machine to run nor are they expected to use all the power. Why should we hold EVERY game to the 'use everything' performance? Wouldn't a tighter game be better? Oh, publishers and marketing spinners need money too, my bad.

BrotherRool:

Drummodino:

A lot of console games have a very long loading time at the beginning of the game but then they tend to have very few load screens in-game. The Last of Us had a horribly long start up time but it was fine once you got into the actual game.

Are you talking about literally the first time you play it (because PS3 games hide an install behind the loading screen the very first time you play the game that can make it look like it's loading for multiple minutes) or between putting the disc in and pressing 'continue'?

Between putting the disc in and pressing continue. A good couple of minutes each time

Keiichi Morisato:

Fox12:

Ponyholder:

"finish a project for once."? What? He just finished a project and it was released last month. A year ago Dream Drop Distance also released. There was another Kingdom Hearts game a year before that as well!

Nomura is too spread out, and in a way, this symbolizes everything wrong with Square right now. Too many minor spinoffs and not nearly enough major console releases. Many fans wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to be released, but eight years later they haven't even STARTED making the game. All we've seen was the tech demo. Why the wait? Oh yeah, because the team that makes KH is busy making Final Fantasy Versus 13... a game that was announced when the PS3 was released, and is still in development. Since then THREE ff13 games have been released, all failing to meet Squares expectations. He's since worked on multiple hand held titles, none of which meet his normal quality, while his two biggest projects, KH3 and FF Versus, sit in developmental hell. If he focused on one major project at a time this wouldn't be the confusing mess it is.

Now, most of this I blame on the former president, since I have to assume he was probably responsible for much of the confusion. I don't remember Nomura having this problem before. The Kingdom Hearts spin-offs are decent appetizers, but the fans are ready for some meat.

you should have played the handheld titles... because they are fantastic, and they continue the story, KH II should have been KH IV.

I only played one of the handheld KH games, the one that used a card system for attacks in a real time fight. As much as I wanted to know more of the story, the battle system ruined it for me.

Also, I enjoyed KH more when the story revolved around the Disney characters more. I could be wrong(since I haven't played the others) but it seemed that the series started to lose some of it's focus on that side of the franchise to serve a more self contained story. This isn't a bad thing in of itself but it's not really the direction that I personally would have wanted it to go.

Fox12:
Nomura on Ps3: It's taking me a decade to make one game because the system isn't strong enough for me to make the game I want to make. It can't support Versus 13 as is.

Nomura on PS4: It's got too much power, I don't know what to do with it. Now the expectations are too high.

Mr. Nomura, it's not Sony's fault that expectations are too high for you decade long super game... I like your former stuff, but seriously, pull yourself together and finish a project for once.

Vausch:
Um...Nomura, you're not obligated to use the PS4's hardware to its fullest extent. It's just there for you to use, not saying you absolutely have to.

Fox12:
Nomura is too spread out, and in a way, this symbolizes everything wrong with Square right now. Too many minor spinoffs and not nearly enough major console releases. Many fans wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to be released, but eight years later they haven't even STARTED making the game. All we've seen was the tech demo. Why the wait? Oh yeah, because the team that makes KH is busy making Final Fantasy Versus 13... a game that was announced when the PS3 was released, and is still in development. Since then THREE ff13 games have been released, all failing to meet Squares expectations. He's since worked on multiple hand held titles, none of which meet his normal quality, while his two biggest projects, KH3 and FF Versus, sit in developmental hell. If he focused on one major project at a time this wouldn't be the confusing mess it is.

Now, most of this I blame on the former president, since I have to assume he was probably responsible for much of the confusion. I don't remember Nomura having this problem before. The Kingdom Hearts spin-offs are decent appetizers, but the fans are ready for some meat.

It's worthy of note that Tetsuya Nomura is widely known for being a perfectionist. Hence why he's all "That's too much!"
If people thought the Versus XIII wait was so long, now that it's XV.. Yeah, he has difficulty settling on a particular thing. Having so much freedom to do what you want to do is most likely a massive disadvantage for Nomura..

KazeAizen:

Fox12:

Ponyholder:

"finish a project for once."? What? He just finished a project and it was released last month. A year ago Dream Drop Distance also released. There was another Kingdom Hearts game a year before that as well!

Nomura is too spread out, and in a way, this symbolizes everything wrong with Square right now. Too many minor spinoffs and not nearly enough major console releases. Many fans wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to be released, but eight years later they haven't even STARTED making the game. All we've seen was the tech demo. Why the wait? Oh yeah, because the team that makes KH is busy making Final Fantasy Versus 13... a game that was announced when the PS3 was released, and is still in development. Since then THREE ff13 games have been released, all failing to meet Squares expectations. He's since worked on multiple hand held titles, none of which meet his normal quality, while his two biggest projects, KH3 and FF Versus, sit in developmental hell. If he focused on one major project at a time this wouldn't be the confusing mess it is.

Now, most of this I blame on the former president, since I have to assume he was probably responsible for much of the confusion. I don't remember Nomura having this problem before. The Kingdom Hearts spin-offs are decent appetizers, but the fans are ready for some meat.

Which obviously the new President is quickly rectifying.

FF Versus XIII is now finally being pushed out the door. Final Fantasy XIV got a from the ground up rebuild. Kingdom Hearts 3 finally has content to show and is in development which is far more then can be said for Valve and Half Life 3. Also I think people undercut the Final Fantasy XIII saga. XIII-1 in retrospect was not bad but not good either. XIII-2 on the other hand was such a solid game and did what a sequel should do. Expand on the original and fix what was wrong which it does on so many levels. A truly good Final Fantasy game. Anyway he's on point now. Besides the 1.5 and 2.5 releases are a sign of good will I think. I mean they are finally releasing the Final Mix versions of the KH games to the rest of the world. Those two games will prove it or not but I think its safe to say Square Enix is back on point and doing the right thing.

I'm also going to have to really disagree with that "FFXIII-2 is a brilliant game" claim. Sure, it fixed many gameplay issues (and I actually enjoyed XIII a lot).. But it completely retcon'd the story/lore. Etro was never a real goddess with actual powers, Yeul was no all-powerful, undying being, she was merely a prophet/sermon-speaker to the early Pulsian people. They were only stories. So.. While sure, FFXIII-2's gameplay does far exceed FFXIII's, I can't say the story improved. It made one part better, while making the other a detriment..

weirdguy:

KazeAizen:

SupahGamuh:

The devs of the new Killzone said that more power on the PS4 means more work and more budget.

Personally I think it's total BS, just because you have "more", doesn't mean these stupid devs need to squeeze every GB available, for once, I'd just like a console game with fun and tight gameplay that runs on 1080p at 60 fps, doesn't matter if it has the latest shaders and what have you.

Then convert to the Wii U and start playing Nintendo games. :)

people would rather let the mainstream console industry die rather than do that

and i think they plan to make good on that threat

And why on gods green earth would anyone want that?

-Dragmire-:

Keiichi Morisato:

Fox12:

Nomura is too spread out, and in a way, this symbolizes everything wrong with Square right now. Too many minor spinoffs and not nearly enough major console releases. Many fans wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to be released, but eight years later they haven't even STARTED making the game. All we've seen was the tech demo. Why the wait? Oh yeah, because the team that makes KH is busy making Final Fantasy Versus 13... a game that was announced when the PS3 was released, and is still in development. Since then THREE ff13 games have been released, all failing to meet Squares expectations. He's since worked on multiple hand held titles, none of which meet his normal quality, while his two biggest projects, KH3 and FF Versus, sit in developmental hell. If he focused on one major project at a time this wouldn't be the confusing mess it is.

Now, most of this I blame on the former president, since I have to assume he was probably responsible for much of the confusion. I don't remember Nomura having this problem before. The Kingdom Hearts spin-offs are decent appetizers, but the fans are ready for some meat.

you should have played the handheld titles... because they are fantastic, and they continue the story, KH II should have been KH IV.

I only played one of the handheld KH games, the one that used a card system for attacks in a real time fight. As much as I wanted to know more of the story, the battle system ruined it for me.

Also, I enjoyed KH more when the story revolved around the Disney characters more. I could be wrong(since I haven't played the others) but it seemed that the series started to lose some of it's focus on that side of the franchise to serve a more self contained story. This isn't a bad thing in of itself but it's not really the direction that I personally would have wanted it to go.

You played Chain of Memories then and its a shame. Its the only one in the entire series that uses that combat system. All the rest use something more conventional or practical. Kingdom Hearts always was a self contained story. They haven't lost site of the Disneyverse though. A significant time in each game is visiting the Disney worlds. Yes the main story revolves around the original characters but the path to getting through that story involves visiting many of our favorite Disney worlds in every single game.

KazeAizen:

weirdguy:

KazeAizen:

Then convert to the Wii U and start playing Nintendo games. :)

people would rather let the mainstream console industry die rather than do that

and i think they plan to make good on that threat

And why on gods green earth would anyone want that?

Because Nintendo. Because "Triple A Gaming Industry is bad!"

The Escapist likes to whine about things like this on occasion.

Ronack:
So, I kept waiting patiently and watched as handheld title after handheld title got released. Years upon years I couldn't play Kingdom Hearts, mostly because I couldn't get the handheld games and my PS2 is on the fritz. But, I waited. It's bound to come, right? IT'S BOUND TO CO- Ah, on the PS4. A console I can't afford. GOOD.

I owe you an apology, I said when it first came out that I would never buy that bloated POS blue-ray player(read PS3), though I would be sorely tempted if Kingdom hearts 3 came out as PS3 exclusive. So as a favor to me, SE held off on making KH3 for an ENTIRE console generation so that I wouldn't feel pressured into buying overpriced garbageware. Again, I am so sorry for your loss.

captcha: fait accompli
...... ok i need to google for what that means.....
ah, french for "accomplished fact", now captcha is agreeing with me in foreign languages.

-Dragmire-:

Keiichi Morisato:

Fox12:

Nomura is too spread out, and in a way, this symbolizes everything wrong with Square right now. Too many minor spinoffs and not nearly enough major console releases. Many fans wanted Kingdom Hearts 3 to be released, but eight years later they haven't even STARTED making the game. All we've seen was the tech demo. Why the wait? Oh yeah, because the team that makes KH is busy making Final Fantasy Versus 13... a game that was announced when the PS3 was released, and is still in development. Since then THREE ff13 games have been released, all failing to meet Squares expectations. He's since worked on multiple hand held titles, none of which meet his normal quality, while his two biggest projects, KH3 and FF Versus, sit in developmental hell. If he focused on one major project at a time this wouldn't be the confusing mess it is.

Now, most of this I blame on the former president, since I have to assume he was probably responsible for much of the confusion. I don't remember Nomura having this problem before. The Kingdom Hearts spin-offs are decent appetizers, but the fans are ready for some meat.

you should have played the handheld titles... because they are fantastic, and they continue the story, KH II should have been KH IV.

I only played one of the handheld KH games, the one that used a card system for attacks in a real time fight. As much as I wanted to know more of the story, the battle system ruined it for me.

Also, I enjoyed KH more when the story revolved around the Disney characters more. I could be wrong(since I haven't played the others) but it seemed that the series started to lose some of it's focus on that side of the franchise to serve a more self contained story. This isn't a bad thing in of itself but it's not really the direction that I personally would have wanted it to go.

Chain of Memories is more tolerable in 3D, also the handheld games do focus on the disney character if you are in that characters world. there are usually things that happen at the end of the disney stuff to further the plot. also the limitations of the GBA is why the story and the structure of Chain of Memories is the way that it is.

Mistranslation in the title.
It doesnt mean "too much" and he didnt intend it as too much
It's an overkill, to run a game like KH3 on the PS4 he meant that it was "too much" power to work with almost, this was more of a compliment and the faith he had in PS4 being able to bring the optimal out of the KH3 experience.

*points to Kingdom Hearts 2*

You. Nomura. Do that again. That game was solid. Build on that. No panels, no cards, just flat out awesome gameplay with some neat abilities and flashy reaction commands. All I'm asking for.

ThunderCavalier:
*points to Kingdom Hearts 2*

You. Nomura. Do that again. That game was solid. Build on that. No panels, no cards, just flat out awesome gameplay with some neat abilities and flashy reaction commands. All I'm asking for.

The new system introduced in BBS which then followed up in KH3D actually allowed for more interesting costumization. The panels and the godawful system in re:coded and days did not however.
So far it does seem like KH3 will follow the KH2 formula at least from what we can tell from the UI

Ponyholder:

KazeAizen:

weirdguy:
people would rather let the mainstream console industry die rather than do that

and i think they plan to make good on that threat

And why on gods green earth would anyone want that?

Because Nintendo. Because "Triple A Gaming Industry is bad!"

The Escapist likes to whine about things like this on occasion.

Apparently.

Forcekin:
The new system introduced in BBS which then followed up in KH3D actually allowed for more interesting costumization. The panels and the godawful system in re:coded and days did not however.
So far it does seem like KH3 will follow the KH2 formula at least from what we can tell from the UI

Yeah, I hadn't played DDS or BBS due to my lack of both a PSP and a 3DS. I did hear a lot of good things about them, though.

I just hope that they make the game fun. I enjoyed Days's story for the most part, but I felt that its gameplay was a chore, especially if you tried to do Mission Mode. All of the enemies have such buffed health that all you do is end up bashing it with Attack until it dies, and the restriction of magic made using it extremely impractical, especially if you wanted to use Magic-based characters like Larxene, Zexion, or Donald. Not to mention the general lack of flinching, which basically meant anyone that used long combos, like Riku or Demyx, was essentially useless.

marurder:
Is there some unwritten law somewhere that says "if a platform has x power thou MUST use it in totality!" ? Papers Please or many smaller games don't need a super machine to run nor are they expected to use all the power. Why should we hold EVERY game to the 'use everything' performance? Wouldn't a tighter game be better? Oh, publishers and marketing spinners need money too, my bad.

It might not be written in law but when you advertise a console as being next gen, masses and the general public expect next gen stuff.

It's is completely conflicting, especially here on the Escapist where we go on and on about how PC specs are better than PS4/Xbox ONE specs which are better than Wii U specs, etc. etc. only for us to say "well you don't need to use EVERY bit of power on the new consoles" because that completely defeats the whole mantra of the specs and next gen argument.

Now, the question is, are they going to take a turn in the graphics department and use it for AI intelligence?

Unrelated, but all the screenshots I keep seeing of the next Kingdom Hearts game look like what I thought Skyward Sword was going to look.

JediMB:
Protip for Nomura:

Just make the games you want to make. We don't need more bloated game budgets. If you just make good games, your fans will buy your Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests and Kingdom Hearts...es, no matter how much or little processing power and memory they're using.

This! THIS! THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS! Dammit for the love of GOD this. Seriously its like bitching that you have more space to build your dream home. Use what you want to the best of your abilities and don't worry about "pushing the limits" of the system at the cost of your vision.

Fox12:
Nomura on Ps3: It's taking me a decade to make one game because the system isn't strong enough for me to make the game I want to make. It can't support Versus 13 as is.

Nomura on PS4: It's got too much power, I don't know what to do with it. Now the expectations are too high.

So very, very, very true. You can't have too much power, dammit, just use what you need and be done with it.

KazeAizen:

-Dragmire-:

You played Chain of Memories then and its a shame. Its the only one in the entire series that uses that combat system. All the rest use something more conventional or practical. Kingdom Hearts always was a self contained story. They haven't lost site of the Disneyverse though. A significant time in each game is visiting the Disney worlds. Yes the main story revolves around the original characters but the path to getting through that story involves visiting many of our favorite Disney worlds in every single game.

Sorry, I misspoke about the self contained story bit, it was more of a petty complaint that the story seemed to be less pandering to my interests. That and, from what I remember, there was a group of antagonists I did not find very compelling. That said, it's been a while and my tastes have changed over the years so I might be more accepting of the story if I gave it another go.

Keiichi Morisato:

-Dragmire-:

Chain of Memories is more tolerable in 3D, also the handheld games do focus on the disney character if you are in that characters world. there are usually things that happen at the end of the disney stuff to further the plot. also the limitations of the GBA is why the story and the structure of Chain of Memories is the way that it is.

Thanks, both of you, for the clarification and info. I may pick up the series again.

But the art style of kingdom hearts is cartoony. I don't mean that in a bad way, just that it isn't striving for realism and that's a legitimate art direction. So they shouldn't have to make full use of the console. It's just there for games that actually need it.

All these developers coming out with this nonsense are studios that I assume have no idea how to budget. This isn't like a canvas where you have to fill out the whole thing or it looks weird with blank white borders. This is a wider array of paints on the palette to choose from. The painting doesn't have to be a Mona Lisa, it needs to be its own thing like with any other medium.

Trying to make the machine strain is as silly as a movie studio spending all of the money they have to create the most elaborate movie possible just because the tech is present. That's dumb.

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