Space Marine Director Talks Plot for Would Be Sequels

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Space Marine Director Talks Plot for Would Be Sequels

Disgraced main character would have "gone rogue" in the follow-up before rallying soldiers to his cause in game three.

The former director of 2011's Space Marine revealed he had a three game story arc planned out for the series. Space Marine, based on the Warhammer 40,000 setting, cast players as Titus, one of the titular chainsword wielding Ork-slayers. "I had some big plans for Titus," Raphael van Lierop, formerly of Space Marine developer Relic Entertainment, told the Penny Arcade Report.

Unfortunately, the business realities of publisher THQ skewered any chance that players would receive resolution to the game's cliffhanger ending. "Sadly, THQ was already starting to fall apart by then and it became clear that Space Marine 2 wasn't going to happen. I was pretty heartbroken about that," van Lierop said. THQ declared bankruptcy near the end of 2012, with its case just wrapping up this summer.

So, what would have happened to Titus had his story continued? The ending to his game - and, obviously, there are spoilers ahead - saw the soldier dragged away in chains under charges of heresy after battling the forces of Chaos. "The second part of his story was to focus on a 'Titus Unleashed' plot ... basically there were forces arrayed against him that would see his loyalty to the Adeptus Astartes pushed to its limit, and his reaction would be to kind of 'go rogue,'" van Lierop said. "He would survive, and come back even stronger in the third game, where other Space Marines still loyal to him would rally around him and he'd return to 'clean house,' but as the head of a brand new Chapter that we would build around him."

Van Lierop is currently hard at work at his new studio, Hinterland. Their first game, The Long Dark wrapped up its Kickstarter campaign earlier this week netting over $250,000 of its $200,000 goal. The studio also announced that David "Solid Snake" Hayter would be among the game's voice cast.

Source: The Penny Arcade Report

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Is it really that impossible? Surely someone had bought the license.

I'd really like to see another space marine, it's one of my personal favourite action games of the last few years.

Agreed Doc. I really enjoyed the game, and its a bummer we wont see the rest of the story.

Godammit GIVE ME MORE SPACE MARINE it was easily one of the best shooters this generation.

Shit man, I really enjoyed this game... especially the main character. Sure, he was a bit generic but had enough sense to break from the traditional space marine mold when situation warranted.

And he was voiced by Mark Fucking Strong who knocked it out of the park.

Hmm, an entire chapter built around Mark Strong. This is something I could have dug.

I always felt like I was the only one that really enjoyed Space Marine, seeing these comments kinda raised my hopes a little. Would have loved to see another Space Marine game, it was one of the only shooters that actually felt like it had some weight to it, that and it is probably one of the most faithful Warhammer games out there.

D: aww ... that sounds awesome. shame I'll never get to play it, least I still have Space Marine I guess

I would really like another Space Marine game, but I'm having a hard time seeing how that plot could fit into W40K lore...
even thinking about going rogue is a one way ticket to "Exterminate on Site" with the Inquisition, especially with the Astartes, the "Emperors Finest" have an image to maintain afterall. And cleaning house with the Ultramarines? The post children of the Imperium? That strikes me as something far too significant to get away with in a third party game, maybe if they'd created their own chapter (or just stuck with the Blood Ravens, more than enough history and speculation with them concerning loyalties)/

Well now, we can't all have nice things, now can we? Who in the gaming community can be sorry about this dying out considering we got a new pokemon game in 2013!!! And a hot debate about mechanics in the upcoming zelda!! Oh, sorry, would have said more but I see a new thread about that anita person and I have to write something.

So, in other words, he was accused of heresy and the Inquisition was absolutely right.

EmilShmiengura:
Well now, we can't all have nice things, now can we? Who in the gaming community can be sorry about this dying out considering we got a new pokemon game in 2013!!! And a hot debate about mechanics in the upcoming zelda!! Oh, sorry, would have said more but I see a new thread about that anita person and I have to write something.

Space marine > Zelda
Of all the times to run out of money, leaving us all with a cliffhanger. The game broke away from so many modern shooters like Gears of War or Halo with its lack of cover and heavy use of melee. Who needs cover when you have more armor than a tank? It was a great game and I so badly hope they find a way to continue it.

Such a shame,

Thought the game was great and both the story and gameplay did an excellent portrayal of the 40k universe.

Hope that we'll see Warhammer games like this again in the future.

Meh, that kind of story arc has been done to death. I'd like to see him go rogue and had the third game have the main character completely join the side of evil. Willingly.

Doclector:
Is it really that impossible? Surely someone had bought the license.

Its to my understanding that Relic made Space Marine under the same license that allowed them to produce Dawn of War.

Anyway, theese revealations are certainly an entry for the What Could Have Been page on TvTropes.

Xan Krieger:
Who needs cover when you have more armor than a tank?

Think twice before saying things like that in 40K.

image

Jusy sayin.

Morti:
I would really like another Space Marine game, but I'm having a hard time seeing how that plot could fit into W40K lore...
even thinking about going rogue is a one way ticket to "Exterminate on Site" with the Inquisition, especially with the Astartes, the "Emperors Finest" have an image to maintain afterall. And cleaning house with the Ultramarines? The post children of the Imperium? That strikes me as something far too significant to get away with in a third party game, maybe if they'd created their own chapter (or just stuck with the Blood Ravens, more than enough history and speculation with them concerning loyalties)/

Depends on what lore you follow though. I don't know about the codexes themselves(haven't read them, just secondhand information), but I know a few of the Black Library books talk about Death Oaths as a punishment put on one(or more) of the Chapter's Marines. Basically a 'You are no longer a member of the chapter until you die in a forgone battle or complete the task we place on you' punishment. Which most likely would have been put on Titus if the Ultramarines grab him from the Inquisition, hence the "Go rogue" bit in the article. No longer of the Ultramarines and under the eyes of the Inquisition, one wouldn't really have much to turn to. And why he'd get put into a chapter creation company, so he'd "clean house" by making the chapter in his way instead of others.

But yeah, I've not heard of Death Oath characters in the codexes, so if one doesn't follow Black Library, then yeah. This would be considered a bit of a lore breaking issue.

Damn them I really love that game, give me MORE!

RatherDull:
So, in other words, he was accused of heresy and the Inquisition was absolutely right.

The Inquisition is ALWAYS right.

EDIT: Guess I should say something about the actual story. I'm kind of glad they cleared that up. While I loved speculating on what happened to Titus, I like to see that they had plans to continue the character. However, "going rogue" is a strange turn of events. Maybe he can join Alpha Legion. After all, they did write the Codex Astartes...

(ducks incoming nerd bullets)

el_kabong:

RatherDull:
So, in other words, he was accused of heresy and the Inquisition was absolutely right.

The Inquisition is ALWAYS right.

EDIT: Guess I should say something about the actual story. I'm kind of glad they cleared that up. While I loved speculating on what happened to Titus, I like to see that they had plans to continue the character. However, "going rogue" is a strange turn of events. Maybe he can join Alpha Legion. After all, they did write the Codex Astartes...

(ducks incoming nerd bullets)

To answer the call for nerd bullets, didn't Roboute Gulliman, the Primarch of the Ultramarines, write it?

And meant it exactly as Titus sees it in the game, but which was twisted over the years into the absolute dogma of Space Marine tactics?

gigastar:

Xan Krieger:
Who needs cover when you have more armor than a tank?

Think twice before saying things like that in 40K.

*image snip*

Jusy sayin.

Alright, more armor than a leman russ tank. Also I'm not a fan of the baneblade, I prefer the shadowsword because it can knock a titan on its ass.

This reminds me, I demand that tanks play a larger role in the sequel when they do get funding for it.

An Ultramarine? Going rogue? Did someone turn him into a Soul Drinker or something?

el_kabong:

EDIT: Guess I should say something about the actual story. I'm kind of glad they cleared that up. While I loved speculating on what happened to Titus, I like to see that they had plans to continue the character. However, "going rogue" is a strange turn of events. Maybe he can join Alpha Legion. After all, they did write the Codex Astartes...

(ducks incoming nerd bullets)

Is this a new Horus Heresy thing? As far as I know, Guilliman wrote the codex.

In the wake of the calamity that was the Horus Heresy, the foundations of the Imperium of Man were laid down. The first High Lords of Terra established the structure by which the Adeptus Terra operated, and described the feudal responsibilities and duties of the planetary lords. One of the most important accomplishments was the reorganisation of the Imperium's fighting forces. This was undertaken almost single-handedly by the Primarch of the Ultramarines Legion, Roboute Guilliman, who with characteristic speed and efficiency codified the structure of the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy, and the Space Marines. Of all of his works, the most influential is the Codex Astartes, the great prescriptive tome that lays down the basic organisational and tactical rules for the Space Marine Chapters.
The Horus Heresy had revealed previously unknown genetic weakness in the gene-seed of the Primarchs and Space Marines among the original 20 First Founding Space Marine Legions, weaknesses that left the Legions in question greatly exposed to corruption by the Ruinous Powers of Chaos. This risk was exacerbated by the rapid nature of Space Marine recruitment during the centuries between the start of the Great Crusade in ca. 800.M30 and the outbreak of the Horus Heresy itself in the early 31st Millennium. With the Imperium of Man expanding so quickly across the galaxy during the Great Crusade, the need for fresh recruits in the Space Marine Legions was great. So much so that some Legions had not been as particular in their gene-seed screening practices and recruit selection processes as they should have been. The first objective of Roboute Guilliman in writing the Codex Astartes was to both recognise and purge these weaknesses.

Following the end of the Horus Heresy and the retreat of most of the Traitor Legions into the Eye of Terror, the Codex decreed that the nine remaining Loyalist Legions would be divided into 1,000-man Chapters, the Chapter Masters of which would be directly beholden to the Emperor Himself and no other, not even the Primarchs of their original founding Legions (save in the case of the single Chapter that would remain under each Primarch's control and retain its Legion's original name). No one man in the Imperium could ever again control the superhuman might of an entire Legion of 100,000 or more Space Marines.

The Codex outlined a new, more measured process for Space Marine selection and recruitment and insisted that each newly-created Successor Chapter would tithe 5% of its genetic material to the Adeptus Terra and the Adeptus Mechanicus for testing and monitoring. It also decreed that only the Emperor Himself, through the auspices of the High Lords of Terra, would ever again be able to order the creation of a new Space Marine Chapter. All gene-seed would be subjected to the greatest genetic scrutiny before being used in the creation of new Space Marine implants. To prevent cross-contamination, the Codex rebuked the practice of sharing gene-seed between different Chapters and, henceforth different Legions with their different genetic make-ups. From then on, each Chapter would have to rely solely on the gene-seed produced in the bodies of its own Space Marines.

On Terra, the Adeptus Terra created genetic repositories to produce and store Space Marine gene-seed. These banks were used to provide all new gene-seed for Space Marines and, to prevent cross-contamination, the genetic material of each of the old Legions was isolated. Henceforth, the new Space Marine Chapters would receive gene-seed only from their own genetic stock. The remaining gene-seed of the Traitor Legions was placed under a time-locked stasis seal, although at the time, many believed these dangerous stocks should be destroyed. By taking direct control of the genetic stocks, the Adepts of Terra could ultimately control the Space Marines. Now they alone had the power to destroy or create Space Marine Chapters at will.

The Codex also further defined the accepted tactical doctrine, Chapter organisation, order of battle, and recruitment practices for a Space Marine Chapter. It explained the different battlefield roles assigned to each squad of Space Marines in a Chapter, defining them as Tactical, Assault or Devastator Squads and assigning different equipment and purpose to each (see the excerpts below).

There were many other topics covered in the Codex and all of them displayed Guilliman's formidable intelligence and hard-won wisdom. The most controversial and yet most important of the topics and decrees made in the Codex Astartes was that the original twenty Space Marine Legions consisting of 10,000 to upwards of 200,000 Astartes or more, were divided into new Chapters, an existing organisational formation found in the old Legiones Astartes. One Chapter kept the name and colours of the original Legion, while the remaining Chapters took on new titles and colours. Most of the old Legions were divided into fewer than five Chapters, but the Ultramarines, being by far the largest of the Legions, were divided many times. The exact number of new Chapters created from the Ultramarines is uncertain: the number listed in the oldest known copy of the Codex Astartes (the so-called Apocrypha of Skaros) gives the total as 23, but does not name them. These Chapters would consist of ten companies of 100 Space Marines each. The breaking of the remaining nine Loyalist Legions into multiple Space Marine Chapters is known to Imperial historians as the Second Founding, which occurred in ca. 021.M31, seven standard years after the death of Horus.

My thoughts/hopes were that he was going to be cleared of his charges and then join the Deathwatch :D.

At any rate we (as in Warhammer 40k fans) need a Rogue Trader or Inquisitor RPG in the style of KOTOR, that would be epic.

jurnag12:

el_kabong:

RatherDull:
So, in other words, he was accused of heresy and the Inquisition was absolutely right.

The Inquisition is ALWAYS right.

EDIT: Guess I should say something about the actual story. I'm kind of glad they cleared that up. While I loved speculating on what happened to Titus, I like to see that they had plans to continue the character. However, "going rogue" is a strange turn of events. Maybe he can join Alpha Legion. After all, they did write the Codex Astartes...

(ducks incoming nerd bullets)

To answer the call for nerd bullets, didn't Roboute Gulliman, the Primarch of the Ultramarines, write it?

And meant it exactly as Titus sees it in the game, but which was twisted over the years into the absolute dogma of Space Marine tactics?

Well, as a player who uses Alpha Legion on the table-top, I have my own tinfoil-hat theories on that particular piece of history. Some facts about the Ultramarines and Alpha Legion.

1. Alpha Legion actually has two primarchs who are twins, Alpharius and Omegon. They kept their homeworld and each other a secret from the Imperium (sort of like The Prestige). While tactical geniuses, they were not very skilled in hand-to-hand and preferred bullets to solve their combat.

2. In the span of time after the Horus Heresy (notorious because of the shoddy records kept during the time), the Ultramarines went to battle with Alpha Legion, where Guilliman killed Alpharius in a duel. Despite losing their primarch, the Alpha Legion were still able to defeat the Ultramarines.

3. Guilliman and the Ultramarines are not convinced that they actually killed Alpharius, as it's been revealed that Alpha Legion can ingest their primarch's blood to become genetically identical for periods of time (fooling even space marine apothecaries).

4. In the same period, but before his "death", Guilliman wrote the Codex Astartes, a semi-rigid doctrine that not only dictated combat doctrine, but also split all legions into smaller, weaker units. The expressed purpose was to prevent one chapter from becoming too powerful and causing another civil war.

5. Post-heresy, Alpha Legion work to infiltrate loyalist marine chapters, such traitors revealing themselves at crucial moments.

6. Members of each space marine legion tend to show the same traits as their founding primarchs, though reduced in some way.

Now, here's where the extrapolation occurs. The story of the duel is a falsity. While Alpharius may have provoked Guilliman into the open with promises of an honorable duel, such action would only have been a deception to overwhelm the primarch (Alpharius was known for being dishonorable and Guilliman, honorable to a fault). Omegon, possessing a more powerful version of the genetic manipulation shown amongst other Alpha Legion, assumes the identity of Guilliman. He joins the ranks of the Ultramarines (leading them to an assured Alpha Legion victory). He then writes the Codex Astartes in an attempt to weaken the power of the loyalist legions and to blind them with rigid doctrine, turning the Ultramarines upside-down from the inside. Tinfoil-hat clincher: when you turn the Ultramarine symbol upside-down...it's an Omega.

Considering how tight a handle on their IP Games Workshop maintains. They would never have let this story happen.

saintdane05:
An Ultramarine? Going rogue? Did someone turn him into a Soul Drinker or something?

el_kabong:

EDIT: Guess I should say something about the actual story. I'm kind of glad they cleared that up. While I loved speculating on what happened to Titus, I like to see that they had plans to continue the character. However, "going rogue" is a strange turn of events. Maybe he can join Alpha Legion. After all, they did write the Codex Astartes...

(ducks incoming nerd bullets)

Is this a new Horus Heresy thing? As far as I know, Guilliman wrote the codex.

It's not canon. Just my crazy fan theory (outlined in a different response)...that makes crazy levels of sense. Not like GW will progress the story to even potentially reveal these sorts of things to prove me wrong.

The second game could have been interesting. Examining what would cause a Space Marine to renounce his oath to the Primarch and the Emperor isn't something that has been done very often (the Badab War is the only one that comes to mind at the moment). Actually, I can see Titus still being loyal to the Emperor and mankind but no longer wanting to work within the constraints of the Codex Astartes and the Imperial system.

But the third game....nope. Not buying it. In the world of 40k, once you've been declared a heretic and a traitor, that's it. No coming back from that, and the Inquisition will probably do their best to carry out Damnatio Memoriae on your very existence if you are prominent enough. And they certainly don't found new Chapters on renegades and heretics

Even if it was a death oath, like suggested before, those things are designed to end in death. A heroic one that redeems your character, but still death. But if you managed to survive, you can't come back anyway because your oath probably made you spend too much time in contact with chaos, xenos, and other renegades. It's a lose-lose situation for the person carrying out the oath. If the game was going to be that Titus would be helping his former battle-brothers from the shadows, or even creating his own renegade chapter from like minded marines, dropping into warzones to fight chaos and xenos threats and bugging out before Loyalist marines (like the Minotaurs, a Chapter that seems to have been created specifically to hunt down renegade marines) or the Inquisition arrived, that would have been more palatable from a lore sense. And probably a far more interesting game.

It's a ashame. I really enjoyed Space MArine. Personally I think they should make a Gorka Morka game and get Tim Schafer's Double Fine studio to do it.

Space Marine while far from perfect, was a very enjoyable 40K game. Despite having Ultrasmurfs.
It's a real shame there won't be any sequels, it actually sounds very interesting.

I am somewhat sad that is the story arc he wanted to go with. Basically Titus is a traitor after saying all that stuff about loyalty at the end? Betraying his chapter to form a renegade warband for revenge for being wronged... That does not sound like the character they developed in the game at all.

RatherDull:
So, in other words, he was accused of heresy and the Inquisition was absolutely right.

He disobeys the Codex, he shows behavior entirely uncommon among his chapter and he is resistant to the Warp. At the end of Space Marine I thought it was pretty clear that the guy was business for the Inquisition.

Modern morality doesn't work in 40k due to the Warp, if you give an inch the Warp will take a whole mile and corrupt you. I actually like that because it should prevent Hollywood morality (where characters in any setting exhibit modern morality no matter how little sense that makes in their setting like an anti-racist, pro-gay bishop in the middle ages or something) but if they'd actually gotten this past GW it would be pretty bad. If he goes rogue and "serves the Emperor in his own way" he should turn into a Chaos Space Marine because the belief that you can use any means to reach your goal is one of the paths to Chaos.

KDR_11k:

He disobeys the Codex, he shows behavior entirely uncommon among his chapter and he is resistant to the Warp. At the end of Space Marine I thought it was pretty clear that the guy was business for the Inquisition.

Modern morality doesn't work in 40k due to the Warp, if you give an inch the Warp will take a whole mile and corrupt you. I actually like that because it should prevent Hollywood morality (where characters in any setting exhibit modern morality no matter how little sense that makes in their setting like an anti-racist, pro-gay bishop in the middle ages or something) but if they'd actually gotten this past GW it would be pretty bad. If he goes rogue and "serves the Emperor in his own way" he should turn into a Chaos Space Marine because the belief that you can use any means to reach your goal is one of the paths to Chaos.

Or maybe he is being given power by the Emperor in the Warp, or another Warp god?

I really enjoyed Space Marine actually and was looking forward to any sequels but it seems that is no longer an option.

I would of liked someone that bought Relic to buy the license and invest some money to make a sequel. Eh..me and my hopes for another action WH40k game (preferably a Space Marine sequel) are all in vain.

Boris Goodenough:
Or maybe he is being given power by the Emperor in the Warp, or another Warp god?

Either way he's Ordo Malleus material now. If it was power granted by the Emperor (and it could be proven to the satisfaction of the Inquisition), then a case could be made for him to become part of the Grey Knights, but I doubt that. He'd probably end up as some Inquisitor's smash tool.

If it was some other warp entity (outside of the big 4), then it's a psybolt to the head. If it's not of the Emperor, it's evil, not much room for that. Unless they start talking about the radical factions, who believe that to beat Chaos, you must use its weapons against it. Then they might stick him in a cage and chuck lesser daemons at him, or vivisect him, or otherwise study him and learn his secret. Or use him as their own smash tool in the war against Chaos.

Bottom line is, he's never going back to the Ultramarines again, and if for some reason they decide to use his gene seed to found a new chapter, he'll be in no condition to lead it anymore.

Titus would rather put a bolt to his brain and give his holy armour, geneseed and weapons to the chapter, to make a new marine, than "go rogue". Otherwise he'd never be a Space Marine.
Hell, he'd probably not even waste a bolt as an Ultramarine.

It sounds halfassed.. let's assume Titus is somehow capable of going past his psychological conditioning and is so resistant to the warp that he doesn't go instantly chaos, as well as ignore the guilt of becoming a traitor; The chance that others would think the same and rally behind him, is impossible and would in this setting be considered grounds for a chapter wipe.

Then again, when it comes to 40k lore in games and books, writers have such different approaches to the marines, that almost anything goes, because this actually has to sell and not be a total niche product.

Space Marine had a plot? I didn't notice I was too busy killing greenskins.

The shooty, chainswordy gameplay was some of the best I've seen in a long time, it was so good it didn't need a plot. If someone makes a sequel I don't care what kind of plot they make up, as long as they make the combat equally satisfying.

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