Satoru Iwata: No "Dark Future" for Nintendo

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I'm with Omega on this one. I don't rate Iwata's leadership at all. In fact, I think that Nintendo certainly needs younger blood at the helm (certainly younger than 50), but because of japanese business culture, that's just not going to happen. The tripping of the 3DS early on was avoidable and the Wii U was poorly conceived, so much so that Nintendo won't hit their 9 million mark.

Besides the 3DS getting healthier, I get the impression that Nintendo aren't sure what to do next. The next gen looms and all they can do is look on in some kind of static horror, clinging to the past. They are still pushing that Wii Mini mess too.

Slowly losing hope that Nintendo will ever grow with the rest of us.

thebobmaster:
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If that is how you perceive it then ok but I'm just saying games have moved on from the days of the N64 in more ways than graphics.

I just don't see Nintendo taking advantage of that fact, they just pump and out the same stuff that just looks better and put another tiny feature on, like there game is a Mr potato head. His defence of which is "The games are great as they are" and my argument is "the games were great about 20 years ago"

CriticKitten:
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Let's get it clear, I'm not anti-Nintendo, I'm anti-Nintendo business practices. I think if Nintendo got with the times they would great again. I don't hate them, I just know they aren't hitting there potential and it makes me a little angry.

Now on to your many facts, of which there only seems to be one. I have already said why those numbers are bull shit. Millions of people bought them from pensioners to little kids and after 6 months the novelty wore off and they collected dust, they were a flash in the pan. The wii isn't a great console, it was a fad, a great console is something like the ps2. The ps2 had a host of great games that sold the system and is the reason it has only just stopped getting made. The wii was a hardware gimmick which is why you couldn't get one and now those who do have it can't get rid of it.

omega 616:

CriticKitten:
snip

Let's get it clear, I'm not anti-Nintendo, I'm anti-Nintendo business practices. I think if Nintendo got with the times they would great again. I don't hate them, I just know they aren't hitting there potential and it makes me a little angry.

Now on to your many facts, of which there only seems to be one. I have already said why those numbers are bull shit. Millions of people bought them from pensioners to little kids and after 6 months the novelty wore off and they collected dust, they were a flash in the pan. The wii isn't a great console, it was a fad, a great console is something like the ps2. The ps2 had a host of great games that sold the system and is the reason it has only just stopped getting made. The wii was a hardware gimmick which is why you couldn't get one and now those who do have it can't get rid of it.

Which again, all of that is purely subjective to you.

Which means it is just an opinion.

I still have family members that use their Wii's on a regular basis.

You cannot say something like "no kid wanted the Wii parents just bought it for them" and claim that is a hard book fact. Which is exactly what CriticKitten was talking about.

Dragonbums:
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I didn't say no kids wanted it, I said something along the lines of "everyone wanted one, then everyone was sick of them". Now, that is obviously just a generalization but it's true enough.

CriticKitten was basically saying "wii sold more than snes, so wii is obviously better than snes", I was saying that's wrong.

omega 616:

Dragonbums:
snip

I didn't say no kids wanted it, I said something along the lines of "everyone wanted one, then everyone was sick of them". Now, that is obviously just a generalization but it's true enough.

CriticKitten was basically saying "wii sold more than snes, so wii is obviously better than snes", I was saying that's wrong.

How do you know everyone got sick of them? Do you have a survey for that?

CriticKittens claims had nothing to do with whether or not the SNES was worse than the Wii.

It was there to debunk your claim that the overwhelming majority of Nintendo's fanbase are some 30 year old males. Despite the fact many people who buy Nintendo hardware are demographics of all ages. Mainly women, and small children-pre teens.

Dragonbums:

omega 616:
I'm not sure how Nintendo keep going to be honest, I've only ever wanted 2 Nintendo products. A Gameboy and a version of pokemon red/blue. They keep dragging out the same dead ponies, pokemon, Mario, metriod, zelda etc but the 80's and 90's kids go fucking wild for them every time... Will be a sad time for Nintendo when that generation dies off.

I just can't see them pulling in new audiences with games from there grandparents generation, today's kids aren't going mad for the modern version of pong aka tennis games. Infants might play Mario as babies first game but I doubt it will last, why play a 2D side scroller when the elder scrolls 10 is out?

The assumption that Nintendo's only fanbase are 30 year olds on nostalgia googles are baffling.

Especially when a large number of critics against Nintendo are in that very age group.

There is also a pretty good chance that a good chunk of children do not know what the Elder Scrolls is. The most they probably know about it is Skyrim.

Indeed, many of us long for the days of the NES, SNES and N64. When Nintendo was making games that made us gamers for years to come. When Nintendo was releasing consoles that allowed for third parties to do great things. I always wondered why third parties didn't release great JRPG's on the Genesis. Was there a technical reason?

Anyway my biggest complaint about Nintendo is that, as a fan who still plays my SNES alot, they don't seem to want my money. I want SNES and GBA games on the 3DS (and N64 if possible) but Nintendo, under current leadership, doesn't want me to buy them.

I spent alot on the Wii VC but there are still plenty of games that they didn't release that I would have bought. Lufia, Lufia II, Breath of Fire, Earthbound, Yoshi's Island, Secret of Evermore, Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia..just off the top of my head.

If Nintendo believes that fewer VC titles = me buying more current gen titles, they are mistaken.

I can say that I haven't really been happy with their first party console titles since the Gamecube. I thought Mario Galaxy was ok and I am struggling to think of anything else I completed on the WIi, besides VC stuff. The Wii U seems to be on the same path.

omega 616:
I have already said why those numbers are bull shit. Millions of people bought them from pensioners to little kids and after 6 months the novelty wore off and they collected dust, they were a flash in the pan.

This is what we call "a claim lacking evidence".

I know of several friends of mine who still play on their Wii with their kids. So does my anecdotal evidence counter yours? Is that how this strain of logic works?

Face it, if your claims were true and the only people buying the Wii were its die-hard fans, then Wii would never have outsold the NES.

I notice you also didn't refute my point that the largest age demographics on the console were young children and post-teen females, both of which do not fit within the parameters of the so-called "diehard fans" keeping the console afloat.

How about, instead of trying to cover your ass on this one, you just admit that you're wrong and that the Wii clearly had a much larger following from alternative gaming demographics than you realized, instead of doubling down on this nonsense? It wouldn't be hard to admit your error, and no one would think worse of you for doing so. So I really don't get why you're trying to defeat cold, hard facts and numerical evidence with your own subjective, anecdotal-at-best assertions hiding under the guise of evidence.

CriticKitten:
Face it, if your claims were true and the only people buying the Wii were its die-hard fans, then Wii would never have outsold the NES.

Except, I'm claiming the opposite. How can you you argue against me when you don't even know what my argument is? As I said to somebody else I made a generalization about people who bought a wii, not every single wii is now unused.... I thought people on this site were smart enough to recognise a generalization when they saw it, people do use them all the time. (look, I just did it again)

The reason I never commented on the numbers you gave are 2 fold. 1) I'm on my phone, as my pc is a brick. My phone hates this site, keeps jumping the cursor around and it takes twice as long to write anything and scrolling up and down is a nightmare. 2) I don't trust numbers. They are so easy to manipulate, just look at cod this week "$1 billion of cod sold... To shops" and then there is that Ted talk called the "8 billion dollar ipod".

omega 616:
Except, I'm claiming the opposite. How can you you argue against me when you don't even know what my argument is?

Your exact words were as follows:

"They keep dragging out the same dead ponies, pokemon, Mario, metriod, zelda etc but the 80's and 90's kids go fucking wild for them every time... Will be a sad time for Nintendo when that generation dies off."

That is a direct claim that Nintendo is being held up by its diehard fans. I don't see how you can possibly twist that statement to say anything else. Now you're in here trying to pretend that you said the opposite, but we still have those old posts to look at, so that's clearly not going to work and I don't know why you think that it would.

As I said to somebody else I made a generalization about people who bought a wii, not every single wii is now unused.... I thought people on this site were smart enough to recognise a generalization when they saw it, people do use them all the time. (look, I just did it again)

The problem with generalizations is that when you make a hasty generalization in ignorance, you're going to get called out on it. And that's precisely what this is.

The reason I never commented on the numbers you gave are 2 fold. 1) I'm on my phone, as my pc is a brick. My phone hates this site, keeps jumping the cursor around and it takes twice as long to write anything and scrolling up and down is a nightmare. 2) I don't trust numbers. They are so easy to manipulate, just look at cod this week "$1 billion of cod sold... To shops" and then there is that Ted talk called the "8 billion dollar ipod".

This is merely excuse-making. "I don't trust numbers because they can be manipulated." So can words, and words are MUCH more easily manipulated than sales figures and statistics, so what's your point exactly? I'm going to trust the numerical analysis of a study by reputable sources over your anecdotal assertions, thanks.

CriticKitten:
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The first the you say to me is all about sales numbers of the wii and how they are better than the snes, so I follow your point, then you suddenly start talking about Mario, metriod and zelda... How am I meant to keep up?

The sales of Mario, metroid and zelda are supporting Nintendo. The wii, which is what you were talking about was and then what I started talking about was a flash but it doesn't support them, it just allowed them to fuck up the wiiU.

Except my Game, CEX and grainger games (all places that trade gaming related stuff) stopped accepting wii's for trade in, like with plastic guitars.

Wow, didn't know I was talking to a psych.. Must be bad at it though 'cos you keep misunderstanding me and you're wrong about excuse making. Ever since I saw that Ted talk years ago I've always took numbers with a pinch of salt. When I'm wrong I admit it, I've shown it a handful of times before on this site alone.

How much longer you going to keep this up? I'm growing wary.

omega 616:
The first the you say to me is all about sales numbers of the wii and how they are better than the snes, so I follow your point, then you suddenly start talking about Mario, metriod and zelda... How am I meant to keep up?

I quoted your original post, and directly responded to it by providing numbers which show that one of Nintendo's largest consoles in recent years, the Wii, was supported by completely different demographics than the 30-some male gamers that you keep saying are "keeping the company afloat".

How does that confuse you? Are you that easy to confuse?

The sales of Mario, metroid and zelda are supporting Nintendo. The wii, which is what you were talking about was and then what I started talking about was a flash but it doesn't support them, it just allowed them to fuck up the wiiU.

*sigh* This too?

http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/2/wii/
http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/42/nintendo-3ds/
http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/47/wii-u/

Among the Top 20 sales lists for these consoles are titles from these franchises:
Wii Sports
Wii Fit
Just Dance
Pokemon
Animal Crossing
Dragon Quest
Nintendogs
Monster Hunter
Fire Emblem
Kingdom Hearts
Professor Layton
Kid Icarus
Pikmin
Lego
Assassin's Creed
Call of Duty
Batman Arkham series
Rayman

And so on. And I didn't even list them all.

But no, please, go on about how Nintendo is purely kept afloat by those three franchises....one of which hasn't seen a game since Other M back in 2010. And by the way, Other M was 117th on the sales list for the Wii, so for a franchise that's supposedly keeping Nintendo from dying, there aren't an awful lot of folks buying from that franchise these days.

Wow, didn't know I was talking to a psych.. Must be bad at it though 'cos you keep misunderstanding me and you're wrong about excuse making. Ever since I saw that Ted talk years ago I've always took numbers with a pinch of salt. When I'm wrong I admit it, I've shown it a handful of times before on this site alone.

Excuse-making is excuse-making, no matter what your excuse may be.

You don't actually have numbers to back up your stance, so you're trying to shrug off the numbers that prove you wrong by claiming that numbers themselves aren't reliable. This is what I commonly refer to as taking a "Bill O'Reilly" stance: repeatedly asserting that you're right even after the facts and figures have long since proven you wrong.

How much longer you going to keep this up? I'm growing wary.

Until you admit that you're wrong, or otherwise just stop embarrassing yourself in this thread to the point where absolutely no one is willing to agree with you or what you've said. I mean hell, I'm a diehard PC gamer who is disillusioned with Nintendo, and even I think you're being ridiculous.

So: either admit your error or just bow out of the discussion. I'd be fine with either one.

CriticKitten:
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Nah, I'm going to keep going till you get what I'm saying. Even though you're kind of new here, you still suffer from what I call "why so literal?" I speak in generalizations and I exaggerate a lot, makes it more interesting. Feel like I always have to be super serious and 100% literal about everything.

Oh and yeah, it is confusing when over 4 or 5 days you start off with one thing, anther person (ie: you) comes along talking about the snes, I follow suit and then without notice you start talking about what I was originally talking about. Sorry, am I human?

Why did I pick just 3 games? I picked the biggest and most well known, instead of scratching my head to think of 10 or 20 to type out, on a temprimental phone.

If you want to think I am making excuses then do so, you're opinion in that matter is irrelevant to the topic, as is you thinking I'm ridiculous.

Some friendly advice, might want to learn to let stuff go if your need to win is so great you write that last paragraph.

(ill try to be a little more literal) I'm still standing by my assertion that Nintendo rely on a small selection of games to keep going. They have some games that sell unexpectedly well, such as wii sports (which apparently old people love) but they have a stable they always rely on.

omega 616:
Nah, I'm going to keep going till you get what I'm saying. Even though you're kind of new here, you still suffer from what I call "why so literal?" I speak in generalizations and I exaggerate a lot, makes it more interesting. Feel like I always have to be super serious and 100% literal about everything.

Then expect to get called out when your generalizations are completely wrong, and don't whine about it.

Oh and yeah, it is confusing when over 4 or 5 days you start off with one thing, anther person (ie: you) comes along talking about the snes, I follow suit and then without notice you start talking about what I was originally talking about. Sorry, am I human?

No, just apparently incapable of following a simple conversation.

Why did I pick just 3 games? I picked the biggest and most well known, instead of scratching my head to think of 10 or 20 to type out, on a temprimental phone.

Ah, more excuses. Refreshing.

What you said is seriously identical to saying that the Xbox is carried by Halo and Call of Duty. It's obviously wrong to such a degree that even the most casual of gamers knows better. And it takes all of ten seconds to do a Google search proving it wrong. So why are you still bothering to repeat this? Who do you think you're fooling?

(ill try to be a little more literal) I'm still standing by my assertion that Nintendo rely on a small selection of games to keep going. They have some games that sell unexpectedly well, such as wii sports (which apparently old people love) but they have a stable they always rely on.

And you're still wrong, as has been proven by actual numbers. Just repeating yourself over and over without any actual evidence, and refusing to acknowledge all evidence to the contrary, doesn't make you right. You will never be right about this. So you can stick to your assertion all you like, just know that you're wrong and that people are going to point that fact out to you every single time you say it.

CriticKitten:
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Whose whining? Just trying to help you understand what I'm saying. No need to be hostile.

Simple conversions flow, they stick to a topic. They don't act like Tigger on speed and bounce around.

Hey, did you just use a generalization? "even the most casual of gamers knows better" oh really, so housewives who play nothing but candy crush know that? Starting to see my point? Though, I'd make that argument.... Like I bought a Gameboy just for pokemon, I'd say a lot of people bought a 360 'cos they had mates on them who introduced them to gaming and the two biggest games on the system are Halo and cod but I'd throw gow in there as well.

Maybe I'm not saying it correctly, I can't post evidence or anything as I am on my phone. Anyway, you do realize that I am just stating an opinion? Don't always need evidence for them, just what you think of something.

omega 616:
Simple conversions flow, they stick to a topic. They don't act like Tigger on speed and bounce around.

The conversation didn't "hop" around, you're just not paying attention. It followed a very simple linear path:

1) You claimed that Nintendo is being held up by hardcore gamers from the 80s and 90s who play Mario, Metroid, and Zelda.
2) I pointed out that if your statements were true, then previous consoles from Nintendo would have outsold their newer consoles (which is false).
3) I also provided demographics information that proved a majority of gamers for the Wii are not stereotypical 20s/30s males.
4) Somehow, this confused you.

Hey, did you just use a generalization? "even the most casual of gamers knows better" oh really, so housewives who play nothing but candy crush know that? Starting to see my point?

Yes, I'm saying even housewives who play Candy Crush know better. My mother, who has never played a video game other than Solitaire on her PC, knows better than that, and she's got absolutely no video game experience to draw on. Yet she could still tell you that she knows Nintendo sells more than three video games.

So you have no excuse, unless you're intending to claim that you have less video game knowledge than she has.

Though, I'd make that argument.... Like I bought a Gameboy just for pokemon, I'd say a lot of people bought a 360 'cos they had mates on them who introduced them to gaming and the two biggest games on the system are Halo and cod but I'd throw gow in there as well.

You'd technically be closer to something resembling "correct" (since GoW, Halo, and CoD fill roughly 13 of the top 20 sales slots on the console, 14 if you tack Battlefield onto that list), but seeing as how there are still other games on their best-sellers list, you'd still technically be wrong about that, too.

I'd post more numbers and facts here, but you're distrustfully afraid of both, so I won't.

Maybe I'm not saying it correctly, I can't post evidence or anything as I am on my phone. Anyway, you do realize that I am just stating an opinion? Don't always need evidence for them, just what you think of something.

I think that's being generally unfair to the concept of "opinions".

Opinions are generally formed on the basis of some evidence, and change as the person gains more knowledge and experience.

Opinions not formed on the basis of evidence, or worse, formed on the basis of outright falsehoods that you refuse to get rid of, are what we commonly refer to as "ignorance".

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