Marvel Comics Reveals New Ms. Marvel

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Lifecharacter: Anyway, this is DC we're talking about right?

MARVEL! Ms marvel is a Marvel Character. that being said I shutter to think what DC would do. DC tried introducing an arab/ muslim greenlantern and his main plotline was how everyone including the government and Nightwing thought that he was a terrorist it was handled as well as can be expected from the current DC comics.

Desert Punk:

Tenmar:
Really hope that is all concept art cause not really liking the style or the costume. Really wish I could offer more but given the content it's just...not that good looking.

Yeah, I took one look at those images and shook my head.

They just look terrible...I really hope for something better otherwise I have a feeling this is just going to flop.

Same here, I don't mind the character concept but that art style, no thanks.

LifeCharacter:

In case you didn't actually read my post beyond the point where you could tell I disagreed with you, I've read the context. Thank you for being so nice as to provide me with something I've already read though.

Oh, you actually read it? Could of fooled me. That small exert was part of the original document listing out the requirements for the four scenes. Considering you claimed to have read it, and that it needed some additional clarification before you could even understand what it was asking for, I just assumed you were far too obsessed with the minute details to actually comprehend what was being asked.

As I said, competent, intelligent artists would know better.
Idiots would draw boobs.

Just because you might fail horribly in taking direction off what was included, in no way means anything other than you don't know how to take direction from the script provided, though it does mean you should probably avoid any interpretive line of work as I doubt you'd do very well in them.

Anyway, this is DC we're talking about right? The company that decided that every female character must now be sexy if they weren't before, and sexier if they were already; the one that likes putting female characters in less and less clothing as time goes on? You expect me to believe that that DC was using this as a way to weed out the artists who would depict a naked female character who's outfit is ridiculously sexualized as anything but?

Tell me why you think that DC wouldn't sexualize this. I've got pretty much every single one of their actions from the redesign of costumes, to the redesign of characters, to the reworkings of personalities all for the sake of being sexualized. What do you have to show me that this was an attempt to weed out the artists DC has no problem working with?

As I said above,
Good artists = Know better, like the example I linked above.
Bad artists/idiots = draw tits and be done with it.

But hey, what do I know, maybe you just bathe clothed? Personally I take all of mine off, but I'm just weird like that I guess.

But I'll give you a second little helpful nudge here. That fourth panel is something to really push for perspective drawings. It requires a lot of foreground and background play, and balancing them so as to not overpower the other. Drawing Harley Quinn with tits out in the open would draw the eye far too much onto her, not to mention the posture for which would either;
a) Break the mood she is supposed to be displaying
or
b) Put her in a position that subtracts from the focus
Or both.

Again buddy, context. You may not have an eye, or hand, for it but that doesn't mean everyone doesn't either.

Seems like a cynical attempt to appeal to more readers by introducing "more diversity".

Not saying that there is anything wrong with diversity, just that doing something just because you think it will sell rarely works.

Why does she have to be religious at all? Why can't she just be of middle-eastern background instead of ham-fisting a religion angle into it? They talk like it's a big part of her identity.

Don't other superheroes stay out of religious nonsense?

Nurb:
Why does she have to be religious at all? Why can't she just be of middle-eastern background instead of ham-fisting a religion angle into it? They talk like it's a big part of her identity.

Don't other superheroes stay out of religious nonsense?

While I agree they could have made her Middle eastern and far as i can see, have gotten the same effect. Comics and media in general really can't ignore religion because for many many people religion is a massive part of their live so excluding it entirely would reduce potential worthwile stories and just be over all foolish.

cursedseishi:
Snip

So all DC had to do was say that the scene was to test artistic ability through very specific ways that are inherent in the scene, and they didn't? If only everyone could waste their time in art classes just to understand the stupid prompts comic companies put out instead of expecting them to not be idiots about it when controversy shows up. It would take all of ten minutes to explain the apparent reasons why naked (if it's assumed people in baths are naked like everyone loves to argue, why specify it?) Harley needs to be in a bathtub trying to kill herself, and they didn't do it. They didn't provide the context of the scene, and the controversy continued.

As for the rest, we're supposed to just expect the company that tells its artists to draw tits to not want tits now and when they put out context that elicits the image of tits (as naked women tend to) we're just supposed to assume that they don't want tits based on our own assumptions of what the context actually is instead of what was explicitly stated?

And do keep up the patronizing and insulting tone, it's just the best way to get your point across that the context you've made up is the real context instead of the one that was explicitly stated for everyone to see.

But...Ms. Marvel is still Carol Danvers, even if she's just going around as Captain Marvel right now...Just because she was Binary, or Warbird, didn't stop her being Ms. Marvel. I'm all down for a person of this background to join the teams, I just...Ms. Marvel is my favorite, and she's still around. It's just...weird, is all. It doesn't help that she usually takes the name back by force when she's not using it, and it's still weird thinking of her as Captain Marvel (really, anyone else taking bets for when he comes zipping back to life?), so...Why not give her someone else's mantle?

I'll still check it out. I just worry what happens when Carol wants the name back.

Pyrian:

CriticalMiss:
...get stoned to death for daring to be an independant woman rather than a domestic slave and baby producing machine?

This sort of thing is perhaps why it needs to exist.

Yeah right? I mean, holy shit.

Can't the comics industry come up with new characters instead of reusing the same character names over and over again. It feels like bad fanfiction when you take a character and name them something recognizable and then have only the loosest thread connecting them to the character they are supposed to be.

MarlaDesat:
living in Jersey City.

Everything except the part I quoted sounded cool.
You can't make an interesting, likable character if they don't live in New York.
I thought Marvel understood this. Why else would pretty much every major Super in the Marvel U operate out of New York?

LifeCharacter:

Tenmar:

LifeCharacter:

I think the point was that the character was needed because people apparently think being Muslim involves getting stoned to death for being an independent woman instead of a domestic slave. It's not to convince the shit countries of the world to stop being assholes, it's to convince people that being a Muslim doesn't somehow make you a Middle Eastern citizen and a devout follower of the horrible aspects of their culture.

Fair enough of a point. But I don't think that comic books need to make that sort of cased compared to actually either being exposed to people who came from that culture or religion or good old fashioned politics.

Well being exposed to real people certainly is better than simply reading about fictional people, but not everyone can or wants to walk around in search of a Muslim to interact with to prove to themselves that they're normal people; they either are already aware of that obvious fact or aren't and don't want to interact with an alien group of people.

Depicting Muslims as normal people in media, in the same way you should depict homosexuals, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, and every other minority group as normal people (admittedly with variations to their situations in current society), is a good way to show that Muslims are normal people like everyone else. Not to mention that media has a much greater potential to change ideas ingrained in society than just hoping that idiots run into a Muslim-Americans or that they try to educate themselves.

Hey guys. Just felt like saying hi. Not really very religious, but I definitely come from a Muslim background. Just thought that was relevant. Ms. Marvel seems like it might be interesting. Hopefully not a gimmick. Not really sure what else to say other than I haven't stoned anyone or attended any stoning and likely never will, so later.

Huh. Progressive.

I mean, it's a little sad that I can call it progressive, but still.

Although I do agree with some people that the art in the second two pictures is looking a little rough.

Why the lipstick? I can already tell she's a lady.

You know, I'm kinda hoping that since she's called Ms Marvel, she somehow is given the mantle. I actually wish she was her own individual persona instead of one that already exist...buuuut, lets be honest here. In the big two, there are actually a number of heroes from different races, ethnicities, etc...aaaand they mostly get thrown under the bus, left to either be forgetten, have that right knit of followers, or have angry white nerds tear them apart for some reason or another.

As for the art, I'm pretty sure that's just concept art...but it doesn't seem too bad.

Also, in terms of things like religion, her preferences, etc...look, I figure it's apart of who they, apart of their thought process, what motivates or demotivates the hero and all that jazz. I really don't want to go into cause honestly, this could be an entirely new hero and a lot of you would still be really annoyed.

It's unexpectedly weird but it's not a bad idea, could be interesting.

Nurb:
Why does she have to be religious at all? Why can't she just be of middle-eastern background instead of ham-fisting a religion angle into it? They talk like it's a big part of her identity.

Don't other superheroes stay out of religious nonsense?

Not universally. Pym is a pretty pronounced atheist, Daredevils hardcore Catholic, The Things Jewish etc.

deth2munkies:
And that's what you get for reading only the headline at The Escapist (gotta read the actual article), the artists walked off after the editors forced them to do the lesbian wedding instead of keeping it an on again/off again relationship like they wanted to for the character. It was creative differences made to look like bigotry by an attention-grabbing headline.

What article did YOU read? Because whatever it was had no actual connection to reality.

Quote from the authors themselves, if you don't believe me:

Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series. We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc's origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman's heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end.

Emphasis mine, source here.

Edit: to be fair, the source of the interference seems to be from wanting to avoid marriages entirely, not just lesbian ones. But you had the interference backwards.

New Frontiersman:

Desert Punk:

Tenmar:
Really hope that is all concept art cause not really liking the style or the costume. Really wish I could offer more but given the content it's just...not that good looking.

Yeah, I took one look at those images and shook my head.

They just look terrible...I really hope for something better otherwise I have a feeling this is just going to flop.

Really? You guys don't like it? I think the designs look pretty nice. I think the characters all look realistic and relatable, and to me the costume doesn't look bad at all.

I've got to second the approval of the artwork shown in 'Meet the Khans.' Honestly, superhero comics stopped being visually interesting for me sometime around the mid-nineties. It's not that they were (or necessarily are) bad, just that there seemed to be precious little variation between artists' styles. Seeing something like this sparks some real interest for me. The characters look expressive, identifiable... I dunno, certainly I don't have any complaints. I dig the lighter pen weight, too.

DaViller:
She ain't got shit on burka avenger.

*laughing* Hell no, but who could?

The Bucket:

Nurb:
Why does she have to be religious at all? Why can't she just be of middle-eastern background instead of ham-fisting a religion angle into it? They talk like it's a big part of her identity.

Don't other superheroes stay out of religious nonsense?

Not universally. Pym is a pretty pronounced atheist, Daredevils hardcore Catholic, The Things Jewish etc.

I really have to come out in favor of a Muslim hero, too. That's not my faith, but the fact I can't name a one isn't anything to be proud of. Marvel comics literally putting their name on one is, IMHO, a nice touch.

MarlaDesat:
Marvel editors Sana Amanat and Steve Wacker told The New York Times that Khan began in a conversation they had about growing up. Amanat says, "I was telling [Wacker] some crazy anecdote about my childhood, growing up as Muslim-American. He found it hilarious." Series writer G. Willow Wilson, a convert to Islam, was eager to sign on for the title. In an interview with The New York Times, Wilson says that the series is "about the universal experience of all American teenagers, feeling isolated and finding what they are [...] through the lens of being a Muslim-American."

However it pans out this seems like a great point of departure and seems in the same spirit as 'The Muslims Are Coming.' ( http://youtu.be/1brf79VyF40 ) I wish them every success.

Tenmar:

LifeCharacter:

I think the point was that the character was needed because people apparently think being Muslim involves getting stoned to death for being an independent woman instead of a domestic slave. It's not to convince the shit countries of the world to stop being assholes, it's to convince people that being a Muslim doesn't somehow make you a Middle Eastern citizen and a devout follower of the horrible aspects of their culture.

Fair enough of a point. But I don't think that comic books need to make that sort of cased compared to actually either being exposed to people who came from that culture or religion or good old fashioned politics.

Why? The Muslim aspect is interesting and actually caught my attention and I NEVER read comic books.

JoshuaMadoc:
Why the lipstick? I can already tell she's a lady.

Why not? People wear makeup.

I find this funny because in Finnish, kamala translates to horrible.

Hmm...

Y'know, as far as I'm aware when a comic book character is defined, in part, by their religion... the religion tends to be an overarching theme in their story or abilities.

So I don't know how I feel about a Muslim superhero, or a religious superhero in general. Is she non-practicing? Or will she stop fighting crime to pray five times a day? Will she be less powerful during Ramadan? What kind of thematic opponents will she face?

And given the lingering social stigma surrounding Islam, they might be walking on eggshells here.

I like the costume, and it's nice to see a costume that actually is a costume instead of bathing suit (or less.) I also think the premise sounds fun and interesting. So... I'll be buying it, then.

Hm, I think I thought about arguing with people but then realized it didn't matter because I'm happy there is a new and interesting thing for me to enjoy.

Kyber:
I find this funny because in Finnish, kamala translates to horrible.

She should find that out in the comic, just to add to the teenage angst and insecurity.

JoshuaMadoc:
Why the lipstick? I can already tell she's a lady.

Makeup is how people prove they have nothing to prove to anyone. Also for some reason being yourself means concealer, eyeliner, etc.

Thinking this is meant to be controversial. Thinking this will see a short burst of interest and then fizzle. Wondering why anyone thinks this is more than merely another kind of exploitation, as if it's going to further anything other than making people talk and maybe generating additional sales for a very short time.

Damned typos.

Desert Punk:

Tenmar:
Really hope that is all concept art cause not really liking the style or the costume. Really wish I could offer more but given the content it's just...not that good looking.

Yeah, I took one look at those images and shook my head.

They just look terrible...I really hope for something better otherwise I have a feeling this is just going to flop.

Tenmar:
Really hope that is all concept art cause not really liking the style or the costume. Really wish I could offer more but given the content it's just...not that good looking.

It doesn't contain blatant fan-service, so for me, it's a GREAT costume. Sure, it could look better, but a woman that isn't fighting with her tits or ass hanging out is good enough for me.

This is an interesting concept. We'll see where they go with it though. There is basically a million ways they can offend with it. Most heroes aren't identified by their faith in the DC universe so it does sound strange to make one of the very few Arabic individuals go that route, but at least there's something.

CriticalMiss:

bazaalmon:
Nice to see that they're branching out a bit. Still, let batwoman have her wedding!

Erm, that's DC who are against lesbian marriage. This is a Marvel series.

DC is generally against marriage altogether. But yeah.

I think I might pick this up if I can find the time or money. I've always been a Ms. M. fan.

Young Kamala has quite a legacy to live up to.

EDIT: By the way, I actually like that costume. It makes me think of Cassie Sandsmark.

I'm certainly happy to see more inclusive heroes. However, I think there are ways to make an awesome costume without making her look like a harlot, and they haven't done that, so I am also hoping this costume is concept only.

Furthermore, I am just not confident enough in theability to show a character who lives by those lifestyle choices. More likely, it'll just be another "standard American archetype" who happens to be darker and occasionally makes mention of her heritage. Don't believe me? Just look at Jubilee. I didn't even know she was supposed to be Asian until well after she lost relevancy, as they did little to define her culturally.

On the flipside, I don't know how I feel about them just replacing Carol Danvers like that. I know she isn't exactly high up on the A-list, but it's just odd. It's nice to see them try something like this, but they need to do it right.

Seracen:
I'm certainly happy to see more inclusive heroes. However, I think there are ways to make an awesome costume without making her look like a harlot, and they haven't done that, so I am also hoping this costume is concept only.

Furthermore, I am just not confident enough in theability to show a character who lives by those lifestyle choices. More likely, it'll just be another "standard American archetype" who happens to be darker and occasionally makes mention of her heritage. Don't believe me? Just look at Jubilee. I didn't even know she was supposed to be Asian until well after she lost relevancy, as they did little to define her culturally.

On the flipside, I don't know how I feel about them just replacing Carol Danvers like that. I know she isn't exactly high up on the A-list, but it's just odd. It's nice to see them try something like this, but they need to do it right.

It's also somewhat besides the point. What people don't know about the largest segment of Muslims, the Sunnis, is that they are largely iconoclasts. They don't believe in representative images. Shi'ites will go so far as to even have pictures of their Prophet in their mosques but not the larger denomination. So making her live by a certain set of lifestyles is kind of a non-issue when the medium as a whole is already questionable for the ideology of something like 80% of the Muslim Faith. But, at least it's something.

Jubilee was Asian? Interesting. I remember reading the early X-Men comics and they actively included other nationalities like Jewish ("Kitty" Shadowcat and Magneto), Russian (Colossus), and even Native American (Thunderbird). They've been incredibly inclusive so this move doesn't surprise me at all. Frankly, I don't even consider it a "move" like I would with some other companies considering this being a calling card of Marvel.

SacremPyrobolum:

Why? The Muslim aspect is interesting and actually caught my attention and I NEVER read comic books.

You Should :)

Oh just so you know a Muslim woman has been holding Excalibur for years in marvel and Blade is actually British... Marvel just promotes what it wants to i guess or it's just because it's Ms Marvel :/

Whats her power? Suicide bombing? lol. Seriously though, this just seems like bullshit. Thing is why not just create a new muslim superhero or a gay hero......why make a current hero gay or muslim? Just seems like pandering. I would love a super hero that was muslim, just that it would mean more if it was a brand new hero. Not just painting an already known hero with a muslim brush.

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