Marvel Comics Reveals New Ms. Marvel

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SonOfVoorhees:
Whats her power? Suicide bombing? lol. Seriously though, this just seems like bullshit. Thing is why not just create a new muslim superhero or a gay hero......why make a current hero gay or muslim? Just seems like pandering. I would love a super hero that was muslim, just that it would mean more if it was a brand new hero. Not just painting an already known hero with a muslim brush.

DC did... But then they killed her as fast as they introduced her :P

Red X:

SonOfVoorhees:
Whats her power? Suicide bombing? lol. Seriously though, this just seems like bullshit. Thing is why not just create a new muslim superhero or a gay hero......why make a current hero gay or muslim? Just seems like pandering. I would love a super hero that was muslim, just that it would mean more if it was a brand new hero. Not just painting an already known hero with a muslim brush.

DC did... But then they killed her as fast as they introduced her :P

Just out of curiosity as im not a comic person, well was more an Image person back in the day. Who was that character an how was she killed?

Aquaman character, he had his own team called "The Others" and the more interesting member "Kahina the Seer" was killed in a very grotesque (which is both good and bad in any context by Black Manta)

imageimageimage

SonOfVoorhees:
Whats her power? Suicide bombing? lol. Seriously though, this just seems like bullshit. Thing is why not just create a new muslim superhero or a gay hero......why make a current hero gay or muslim? Just seems like pandering. I would love a super hero that was muslim, just that it would mean more if it was a brand new hero. Not just painting an already known hero with a muslim brush.

From a business perspective, creating a brand new hero with a new name and such takes a lot of extra work, and not just in the creative aspects but in marketing some new hero. Outside of business there's the potential problem of a new Muslim/Homosexual/minority hero just being relegated off to the side while the big, white names take center stage for everything. Making the new hero take on a big name at least helps prevent that from happening.

Though, at this point, I feel like actually making a new hero and giving them a good amount of attention might actually generate more interest for them since "Holy shit! They made a new fucking hero for once!"

I think she's great and that big 'ol fist is awesome but.....

Comic book companies should stop doing these media parades every time they introduce a minority character. All it does is bring attention to how little they've done it in the past.

ticklefist:
I think she's great and that big 'ol fist is awesome but.....

Comic book companies should stop doing these media parades every time they introduce a minority character. All it does is bring attention to how little they've done it in the past.

There's a strip for that...

image

I like the concept and the look of the cover. The other art doesn't look very appealing though, so I hope it's just concept art. I wonder what her name will be once Danvers is Ms. Marvel again.

Lightknight:
It's also somewhat besides the point. What people don't know about the largest segment of Muslims, the Sunnis, is that they are largely iconoclasts. They don't believe in representative images. Shi'ites will go so far as to even have pictures of their Prophet in their mosques but not the larger denomination. So making her live by a certain set of lifestyles is kind of a non-issue when the medium as a whole is already questionable for the ideology of something like 80% of the Muslim Faith. But, at least it's something.

Jubilee was Asian? Interesting. I remember reading the early X-Men comics and they actively included other nationalities like Jewish ("Kitty" Shadowcat and Magneto), Russian (Colossus), and even Native American (Thunderbird). They've been incredibly inclusive so this move doesn't surprise me at all. Frankly, I don't even consider it a "move" like I would with some other companies considering this being a calling card of Marvel.

I totally understand that simply having a Muslim superhero would raise such feelings in some of the readership. However, as a character, the new Ms. Marvel would (and perhaps should) behave in certain ways that define her character as an American Muslim, lest she lose her cultural identity. To be fair, this would be mostly subtle stuff, which is characterization 101, regardless of cultural background.

Case in point: Yep, Jubilation Lee was supposed to be Chinese, but they completely played her off as a valley girl and literal mallrat. I wouldn't call it a "move" either, as it seemed more natural than Northstar, Batwoman, or Justice Society's Green Lantern.

Defining her along socio-cultural lines would have given meat to her character, keeping her from fading into obscurity. Similarly, as much as I liked her, Dazzler is a caricature of 80's action chicks, and hasn't withstood the test of time either. The X-Men always seem to be in need of these characters, the "young scared girl" who has potential, and is taken under Wolverine's wing (apparently to redeem him and make him more like Batman). Rogue suits this same purpose in the X-Men film, and is arguably the worst rendition of the character.

Not saying the current stab at her (Hisako from the X-Men anime) is terribly good. The only thing different about her is that she has no relationship with Wolverine, and manages to be boring despite the plot revolving around her. Still, how much more interesting would any of these archetypes have been, if they had been approached as anything other than plot convenience?

Now it's a contest to see whose appearance will cause more of an uproar: this new Ms. marvel or Simon Baz, the Arab-American Green Lantern. Don't tell me we forgot about him already.

Darth_Payn:
Now it's a contest to see whose appearance will cause more of an uproar: this new Ms. marvel or Simon Baz, the Arab-American Green Lantern. Don't tell me we forgot about him already.

No no, that will happen when they get pigeonholed into a marriage that creates the new version of the Amalgam universe.

Lightknight:
They don't believe in representative images. Shi'ites will go so far as to even have pictures of their Prophet in their mosques but not the larger denomination.

For clarification, this isn't 100% accurate. The pictures that Shi'ites have in their mosques (and frequently all around their neighborhoods) are pictures of Ali Ibn Abi Talib, who was the cousin and son in law of Muhammad, the Islamic Prophet, and considered to be the second most important figure in Islamic history. No sect of Islam permits pictures or representative images of the Prophet Muhammad.

CriticalMiss:

bazaalmon:
Nice to see that they're branching out a bit. Still, let batwoman have her wedding!

Erm, that's DC who are against lesbian marriage. This is a Marvel series.

I've got to agree that the artwork looks a bit shit and I'm not really keen on the idea too. I mean, is she going to stop being a hero to pray 5 times a day and then get stoned to death for daring to be an independant woman rather than a domestic slave and baby producing machine? Also why does that hedgehog have Hulk hands (holy aliteration Batman!)?

I'd assume she's going to be a nicely progressive Muslim girl who maybe checks out some Hadiths while in the subway but who mostly sticks to her head-space for the worship stuff. I don't see how her actually looking to find out which way East is and kneeling on her little prayer mat at the drop of a hat would go down well with the Right Wingers in the readership.

Apart from that, I dunno. She likes Cheetos, watches Game of Thrones, pesters about her cell phone plan being too expensive - but no kids in the oven and none of that "Burqua or die, you domestic slave-cow" crap.

I wouldn't care personally but, eh. Grew up in Montreal, studied in Montreal, etc. People asking me what time it is and which way East is is pretty common. I don't think I'd especially mind.

My main concern is there any chance some b/s or what have you that will lead to Carol losing the Captain Marvel title like Monica Rambeau did and have to reclaim her Ms. Marvel name or take up another? Wouldn't be surprised if that did happen, but it'd be a bit of a problem for this new title. Frankly I gave up on new teenage superheroes ever since Marvel turned Arana into another Spider-Man clone and then ran her series into limbo.

This reads like "we want a part of the muslim-market".

Some untested writing getting the ms.marvel title to try and shoehorn religion into the marvel mainstream while M16 got cancelled mid-plot.

Fugging Marvel.

Ihateregistering1:

Lightknight:
They don't believe in representative images. Shi'ites will go so far as to even have pictures of their Prophet in their mosques but not the larger denomination.

For clarification, this isn't 100% accurate. The pictures that Shi'ites have in their mosques (and frequently all around their neighborhoods) are pictures of Ali Ibn Abi Talib, who was the cousin and son in law of Muhammad, the Islamic Prophet, and considered to be the second most important figure in Islamic history. No sect of Islam permits pictures or representative images of the Prophet Muhammad.

Actually, they use a single page illustration with Muhammad every year on the anniversay of the Mi'raj. They have also had a long tradition of using an image with 'Ali and Muhammad to show their relation to one another. 'Ali is just by far the most common. Keep in mind though that Sunni iconoclasm would destroy even that.

Here's a basic wiki paragraph of aniconism practices in Shia culture in contrast to Sunni culture:

For Shia communities, portraits of the major figures of Shiite history are important elements of religious devotion. In Iran, portraits of Muhammad and of Ali, printed on pieces of cloth or woven into carpets, are called temsal ("likenesses") and can be bought around shrines and in the streets, to be hung in homes or carried with oneself.[Dabashi, Hamid (2011). Shi'ism - A Religion of Protest. Cambridge, MA: The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press. pp. 29-30.]

So, many Shi'ites would consider it ok and even part of their worship.

However, I should be clear that we're talking in generalities. While Shi'ite nations may not have such a problem, some shi'ite cultural practices are more similar to Sunnis despite basic theological and historical differences. While denominations are relatively few (compared to the mass of denominations that Christinianity has), the expressions of the faith can be many.

I should also mention that Islam was one of my areas of study in college. Fascinating religion and culture.

Seracen:
I totally understand that simply having a Muslim superhero would raise such feelings in some of the readership. However, as a character, the new Ms. Marvel would (and perhaps should) behave in certain ways that define her character as an American Muslim, lest she lose her cultural identity. To be fair, this would be mostly subtle stuff, which is characterization 101, regardless of cultural background.

Well, she is an American Muslim. American expression of Islam can be every bit as notorious for not following the religious laws as Jewish writers usually joke about themselves. So I wonder what kind of cultural identities she'll bear or will she just be a completely Americanized Muslim, rendering the cultural difference nigh meaningless?

Case in point: Yep, Jubilation Lee was supposed to be Chinese, but they completely played her off as a valley girl and literal mallrat. I wouldn't call it a "move" either, as it seemed more natural than Northstar, Batwoman, or Justice Society's Green Lantern.

Ah, I see we are in agreement.

Defining her along socio-cultural lines would have given meat to her character, keeping her from fading into obscurity.

Heroes with Stupid powers don't have longevity as a rule. She was a dedicated red shirt from the start. Bright lights! Yay. Eventually they added some useful things. Like the fact that now she's a vampire. But with weak-ass powers like she had, she could be easily ignored as anything but a damsel to be rescued over and over again by the likes of real heroes like Rogue.

Hm, sounds good. Glad to see Marvel just did the logical thing and made Carol the big-name. As for our new Ms. Marvel, costume looks interesting and I hope they do some fun and interesting stuff with her.

Lightknight:
Well, she is an American Muslim. American expression of Islam can be every bit as notorious for not following the religious laws as Jewish writers usually joke about themselves. So I wonder what kind of cultural identities she'll bear or will she just be a completely Americanized Muslim, rendering the cultural difference nigh meaningless?

Yeah, I figure the cultural background is more eyecandy to attract readers. I really don't think they are going to go out of their way to make her "authentic" and potentially piss off people if they screw up.

Also, I feel that they aren't creating a new hero for marketing reasons. Ms. Marvel has an established fanbase, even if that fanbase is not necessarily "profitable" to Marvel. So they shake things up, have name recognition, AND get to diversify, potentially increasing the readership as well. I don't agree, but I get it.

Lightknight:
Heroes with Stupid powers don't have longevity as a rule. She [Jubilee] was a dedicated red shirt from the start. Bright lights! Yay. Eventually they added some useful things. Like the fact that now she's a vampire. But with weak-ass powers like she had, she could be easily ignored as anything but a damsel to be rescued over and over again by the likes of real heroes like Rogue.

As for Jubilee, yeah fireworks are a dumb power. Still, it was amusing how they tried to change that in Generation X. They made her co-leader and gave her the potential to develop Havok-level powers. I think for a while there, they said her energy manipulation would one day rival an "Omega Level" Gambit.

Still, that's what perturbed me about Rogue in the X-Men films as well, she shouldn't be that sort of character. Heck, they basically used a similar archetype for her in Evolution, but Rogue wasn't some gimped damsel in that series. Dazzler was hardly weak (nuclear freaking blasts), but she was, as I said, a caricature.

Arguably, Kitty Pryde hasn't had that much comic fame (compared to some other X-Men), but she DID have a run where she was an agent of SHIELD (and KILLED IT!!!). Perhaps the cool powers kept her popular, and having character (outside of plot device) kept her relevant.

Seracen:
As for Jubilee, yeah fireworks are a dumb power. Still, it was amusing how they tried to change that in Generation X. They made her co-leader and gave her the potential to develop Havok-level powers. I think for a while there, they said her energy manipulation would one day rival an "Omega Level" Gambit.

Still, that's what perturbed me about Rogue in the X-Men films as well, she shouldn't be that sort of character. Heck, they basically used a similar archetype for her in Evolution, but Rogue wasn't some gimped damsel in that series. Dazzler was hardly weak (nuclear freaking blasts), but she was, as I said, a caricature.

Arguably, Kitty Pryde hasn't had that much comic fame (compared to some other X-Men), but she DID have a run where she was an agent of SHIELD (and KILLED IT!!!). Perhaps the cool powers kept her popular, and having character (outside of plot device) kept her relevant.

Rogue before she accidentally permanently robbed Ms Marvel of her powers would have been weak (funny that this came up in this htread). But yeah, I was incredibly frustrated at her being so young and weak. But I eventually decided this was an origin story rather than anything else.

As for Kitty, her powers are perfectly suited to espionage. I didn't see the series you're referencing but I can believe it.

If they wanted to make this a NEW character, thats fine. But redoing Carol Danvers is ridiculous.

Visually speaking, that is one incredibly bland, lifeless and uninspired design for a superheroine costume. People can complain about the old Miss Marvel costume being stripperific if that's what they want, but at least it was both striking, memorable and unique. This looks like they took an unused design from the seventies and palette swapped the flesh tone to 'Muslim'. And worst of all it looks like it was designed for animation by an animator, instead of comic book artist who works with comic book panels. By all means strip out every trace of female sexualisation, but please give my brain some other form of visual simulation to get and retain my interest. Blergh.

BehattedWanderer:
But...Ms. Marvel is still Carol Danvers, even if she's just going around as Captain Marvel right now...Just because she was Binary, or Warbird, didn't stop her being Ms. Marvel. I'm all down for a person of this background to join the teams, I just...Ms. Marvel is my favorite, and she's still around. It's just...weird, is all. It doesn't help that she usually takes the name back by force when she's not using it, and it's still weird thinking of her as Captain Marvel (really, anyone else taking bets for when he comes zipping back to life?), so...Why not give her someone else's mantle?

I'll still check it out. I just worry what happens when Carol wants the name back.

Hasn't Captain Mar-Vel stayed dead for decades at this point?

DRTJR:

BehattedWanderer:
But...Ms. Marvel is still Carol Danvers, even if she's just going around as Captain Marvel right now...Just because she was Binary, or Warbird, didn't stop her being Ms. Marvel. I'm all down for a person of this background to join the teams, I just...Ms. Marvel is my favorite, and she's still around. It's just...weird, is all. It doesn't help that she usually takes the name back by force when she's not using it, and it's still weird thinking of her as Captain Marvel (really, anyone else taking bets for when he comes zipping back to life?), so...Why not give her someone else's mantle?

I'll still check it out. I just worry what happens when Carol wants the name back.

Hasn't Captain Mar-Vel stayed dead for decades at this point?

Well, he kinda flickered back to life here and there, though it wasn't always really him, or it was him just prior to dying brought forward through time shenanigans, or other general Marvel stuff. But everytime he, or some close facsimile of him, came back, he temporarily reassumed the mantle. All the same, why can't he and his mantle rest, and we give Ms. Marvel back to Carol? Do we have to let someone else take the name, or can we just accept that there was a moderately-well-known hero that was marginally successful in what he did, and there doesn't have to be anyone else to take the name? (Copyright reasons aside, anyway)

Interesting, but it feels like geo-social minority pandering. Nice art, mind.

How about doing a comic covering the real issues going on out there, with minorities in key roles? Must everything be super hero based?

Kittyhawk:
Interesting, but it feels like geo-social minority pandering. Nice art, mind.

How about doing a comic covering the real issues going on out there, with minorities in key roles? Must everything be super hero based?

You want something like that, read indie comics.

Kittyhawk:
Interesting, but it feels like geo-social minority pandering. Nice art, mind.

How about doing a comic covering the real issues going on out there, with minorities in key roles? Must everything be super hero based?

Well...I mean, this superhero comic is probably going to be superhero based, yes.

Are you saying not to use minorities in superhero comics, or are you saying superhero comics should be gradually phased out by minority-focused graphic novels?

Tenmar:
Also a side note. Her powers? Hey nothing to knock at but honestly she could be a super hero of her own instead of taking up the mantle of Ms.Marvel. Especially when said powers of this upcoming character has no relation or even match that of the original Ms.Marvel. May not have to be a clone but still it's like they are just using a brand name to get people to buy while also getting good rapport for being politically correct(I really couldn't find another word to describe the reason why a person's race should be the selling point as a superhero). Hope that fault lies on the marketing department and not the team that got to recreate Ms.Marvel.

EDIT: Anyone else notice that the father's hands were closer in size to that of Ms.Marvel using her body morphing ability? Hell put him in that outfit and Mr.Marvel away :P

Pretty much my thoughts, it's another stunt. The comic industry realized a while ago that ethnicity swapping was a good way to get attention and short term sales, the fact that the industry is heavily left wing in it's outlook also helps. Right now it seems their plan is to periodically mine the publicity by liberalizing one hero or another for attention. Sort of a variation of the comic culture in the 1990s where they found every excuse to put a #1 on something to try and sucker in collectors, albeit this can't be as heavily saturated for the moment.

For the most part they are using the same gimmick as DC of trying to transfer a well known name to a character that isn't the character that defined the name. In this case Carol Danvers is still around as "Captain Marvel", so they really aren't rebooting anything. It's similar to DC's stunt about how they were going to turn a well known "Iconic" DC character gay, they chose Green Lantern, but it was the original Alan Scott lantern as opposed to any of the iconic characters that made that hero popular. A "major hero going gay" in name only so to speak.

That said I think the intent here is simply to mine money and press by doing something a lot of people will find fairly offensive and ridiculous, while at the same time trying to make some kind of left wing message about tolerance which misses the point of the issues to begin with. As someone pointed out, Muslim culture as it applies to the current tensions is such that you could never have a Muslim MS. Marvel since she would by definition be violating her Muslim role as a woman (someone else pointed this out). The solution to this is to have her be Muslim in name only and try and change opinions based on that version of things. To be honest if she's Americanized enough it might not be a big deal, assuming she assimilated into society to the point where her religious convictions are something you'd never notice unless she told you, with her investing a fairly trivial amount of time and effort on them, much like most Christians who you would never know were Christian unless they told you or showed a cross. At which point it simply becomes more
of a factoid than anything that defines the character. Sort of like how Ben Grimm (The Thing) is apparently Jewish, Stan Lee apparently said so and showed off some artwork of him wearing the scarf and beanie at one point (apologies I can't spell the proper names off the top of my head, so I'm being basically descriptive). Various other characters, especially those with oriental backrounds, rarely have faith come into play. Danny Rand (Iron Fist) spent years in a monastery as did Doctor Strange, and really Taoism/Zen/Buddhism or whatever tradition they were trained under rarely comes up.... so at the end of the day we're pretty much getting a dusky skinned character under the name Ms. Marvel who will probably be a poster child for Muslim assimilation into society, which is fine overall actually.

I'll also be honest in saying that it wouldn't surprise me if a big part of this is also wanting to get another Muslim girl out there after the way they really messed up Dust. I won't go into a huge tirade (though you can probably look it up easily enough). To put it bluntly in setting her up (saying she was a Sunni, etc...) the writers really know enough about Muslims to do it right. To put it into perspective the Shiites are more of the orthodox factions, while the Sunnis were the more progressive faction in the region, which is why we backed Saddam originally to try and counterbalance Iran and keep the Shiite population in check before he sold out to the USSR to go conquering. They seemed to want her to be Sunni to make a leftist political point about tolerance since that was who we were at war with, but at the same time had her running around in a Burka and being ultra orthodox at least to begin with, something which didn't quite make sense, and on top of that it's a hard sell to present a culture like that, even through the trappings, while maintaining any kind of message of tolerance.

At any rate, all rambling aside, I have no real desire to get behind this character. I don't mind it really since it's not a reboot, and they are after all keeping the actual Ms. Marvel around under another name, but to be honest it seems like a giant gimmick meant to grab attention, I seriously doubt there are many major plans for the character beyond it's introduction. I suspect she'll be paraded around as fairly high profile for a bit to make a few leftist statements and have Marvel go "look at what we did" then in a couple of years she'll be relegated to comic trivia, and something that will come up once in a while in a supporting role in other books, or shown in massive fight scenes, in a "hey, look, it's that old Muslim Ms. Marvel" context... the fate of many other gimmicky comic characters. What's more it's inevitable someone is going to want to bring back the actual Captain Marvel (as in Mar Vell of the Kree) under the original name, which means Carol will go back to being Ms. Marvel just as she tends to after briefly taking other names (Binary, Warbird, etc...). I think it was last year or the year before I was watching a fairly new cartoon version of "The Avengers" and they had the Kree show up in what seemed to be a lead in to Captain Marvel in the fairly classic sense (ie renegade Kree named Mar Vell with the rank of Captain). That means that Marvel seems to be fairly interested in keeping the classic property alive and "out there" in some sense.

I'd probably have more respect for it if they just did it instead of the big "Hey look, we're using an iconic name for a super hero from a cultural minority that is less than popular in the US right now" press release. That kind of thing doesn't typically end well.

Riff Moonraker:
If they wanted to make this a NEW character, thats fine. But redoing Carol Danvers is ridiculous.

Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel now

they aren't redoing or remaking anyone

While I would also probably complain about her being a mini-Ms. Marvel (like say the way Wonder Girl or Superboy compare to Wonder Woman and Superman), body-morphing powers? Oh, come on, that just sucks.

undeadsuitor:

Riff Moonraker:
If they wanted to make this a NEW character, thats fine. But redoing Carol Danvers is ridiculous.

Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel now

they aren't redoing or remaking anyone

Really? Jeez, I am obviously waaaaay out of the loop, now. :( Once my local comic book dealer went out of business, I pretty much dropped out of the market, except for The Walking Dead. (That and I couldnt afford to get 20 or 30 titles, anymore)

Anyway, it seems that the article is a bit misleading, then. I got the impression that they were basically rebooting the character. If its a new character, then thats fine, I have no problem with that at all.

I honestly don't have an issue with having a Muslim-American hero, but hopefully they'll handle the character tastefully, otherwise... this could get messy.

LysanderNemoinis:
You know what, I don't even have the energy anymore. And God knows if I say anything I'd probably get a warning for it, so I'll just quietly facepalm until I'm concussed.

Same here.

I guess not approving of Ms. Marvels "reincarnation" will automatically result in warnings and/or flame wars.

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