Xbox One Will Not Have Backwards Compatibility Via Cloud Streaming

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Xbox One Will Not Have Backwards Compatibility Via Cloud Streaming

Xbox One

Microsoft has experimented with the possibility of playing Xbox 360 games on the Xbox One via cloud streaming, but it will not roll out this solution because it is too "problematic."

Hold on to your current-gen console if you still want to play any Xbox 360 games. As a solution to the Xbox One's lack of backwards compatibility, Microsoft suggested it could stream Xbox 360 games to the Xbox One via cloud streaming. In a meeting this week, Microsoft's product planning director Albert Penello has decided not to move forward with this option because it is "problematic" for consumers. Cloud streaming was too likely to fail for Microsoft to consider using it.

"It's really cool and really problematic, all at the same time, insofar as it's really super cool if you happen to have the world's most awesome internet connection," Penello told Polygon. "It works way better than you'd expect it to. So, managing quality of service, the tolerance people will have for it being crappy. Can you imagine, in this day and age, with the bad information around, and we can't control the quality of that experience and make sure it's good, or have to tell people they can't do it?"

Network troubles are too common for Microsoft to go through with using the cloud for Xbox One users to play Xbox 360 games. Microsoft's experiment running Halo 4 on a Windows PC and a Windows Phone via cloud streaming demonstrated cloud streaming technology was one solution for offering backwards compatibility. In an uncontrolled environment, Microsoft cannot guarantee that level of success for consumers.

"This is one of the things where the network just has to get better before we can do it. When that happens, you're going to have a really interesting conversation around that, can I actually run Xbox One games that way as well."

Sony plans to use its Gaikai service to stream older PlayStation games to the PS4. Penello is interested to see how Sony deals with similar network problems making cloud streaming problematic.

Source: Polygon

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Yet another reason I'm getting a PS4.

Mainly because it's been years since I've last seen my PS1 disks, so if the library includes things that I used to play then WOOO!

That, and it's getting a couple of free MMO's on it, so there is that too.

That's a first... Microsoft admitting that the Cloud can't deliver a specific service.

This isn't going to go down well. Makes you wonder about the cloud's ability to help with other services the Xbone requires, if people's net connections mean it can't help with streaming older 360 games.

So the infinite power of the cloud is less infinite than when the Xbone was announced.

The hell? If anything Microsoft should be the one pushing this and Sony backing down. I mean, it does make sense that it will depend on the user's internet, even on the PS4 but the XBONE is already very demanding with its online features, this one would be an obvious addition for the system.

With Onlive we saw that the world still wasnt ready for streaming (I have very good connection and while the games are playable there is some noticeable delay, even worse in games that demand precise controls), in a few years it can work but still in more specific regions, for a world wide service there is still a lot to wait for.

Still, its good that someone is thinking of a long term solution (Gaikai, maybe), I prefer having them tracking my purchases now (to then be able to validate them in future generations when everything is more stable) then having to buy a game re-release again later on.

So Microsoft come out with always online and blah blah blah but then backwards compatibility is a no go due to Internet problems. Man, I love Microsoft!

Guess they learned from there mistakes at E3 though, which is a good sign. At first I was all fanboying around Sony for stomping on Microsoft but I realized that competition is better than a monopoly. I don't want Sony to repeat the PS2 to PS3 fuck up of getting way to confident that they think they are untouchable, which is what I think Microsoft have done this time.

....It's not really "backwards compatibility" for the Xbone if the game is streamed.

Because it's not the local Xbone that's processing the game but a remote server equipped with the necessary hardware or emulation to stream the results to the local Xbone.

It's a bit like calling a car "self-washing" because you can drive it through a car wash.
(a snooty car wash that only services a particular model of car, but still)

CriticalMiss:
So the infinite power of the cloud is less infinite than when the Xbone was announced.

And more evidence to my theory that the Cloud was a big ol Trojan Horse bearing Always-Online DRM.

It takes far more more processing resources and bandwidth for The Cloud to noticeably improve the average user's experience, than it takes to hold a small, but crucial chunk of a game's coding hostage on The Cloud.

Sure, one can argue that The Cloud could theoretically do both at the same time, but even in that situation the tradeoffs for the customer far exceed the benefits.

Teoes:
This isn't going to go down well. Makes you wonder about the cloud's ability to help with other services the Xbone requires, if people's net connections mean it can't help with streaming older 360 games.

I think it'll be the exact opposite. With the original Xbox One announcement they had the always-on requirements, their reasoning being "everyone has an internet connection these day." After that entire hullabaloo they've learned their lesson to not promise things that rely on factors they have no control over.

MinionJoe:
That's a first... Microsoft admitting that the Cloud can't deliver a specific service.

CriticalMiss:
So the infinite power of the cloud is less infinite than when the Xbone was announced.

The Azure cloud technically can do it, but what they're saying is that introducing this service would lead to so much backlash from people that want/try to use it, but can't because of their poor internet connections. When they can't connect to the cloud because of their crappy connection who do you think they'll blame? It won't be their ISP, it'll be Microsoft that takes the fall, even if it isn't their fault. Why? Because people are stupid.

Teoes:
This isn't going to go down well. Makes you wonder about the cloud's ability to help with other services the Xbone requires, if people's net connections mean it can't help with streaming older 360 games.

I think it'll be the exact opposite. With the original Xbox One announcement they had the always-on requirements, their reasoning being "everyone has an internet connection these day." After that entire hullabaloo they've learned their lesson to not promise things that rely on factors they have no control over.

MinionJoe:
That's a first... Microsoft admitting that the Cloud can't deliver a specific service.

CriticalMiss:
So the infinite power of the cloud is less infinite than when the Xbone was announced.

The Azure cloud technically can do it, but what they're saying is that introducing this service would lead to so much backlash from people that want/try to use it, but can't because of their poor internet connections. When they can't connect to the cloud because of their crappy connection who do you think they'll blame? It won't be their ISP, it'll be Microsoft that takes the fall, even if it isn't their fault. Why? Because people are stupid.

Teoes:
This isn't going to go down well. Makes you wonder about the cloud's ability to help with other services the Xbone requires, if people's net connections mean it can't help with streaming older 360 games.

I think it'll be the exact opposite. With the original Xbox One announcement they had the always-on requirements, their reasoning being "everyone has an internet connection these day." After that entire hullabaloo they've learned their lesson to not promise things that rely on factors they have no control over.

MinionJoe:
That's a first... Microsoft admitting that the Cloud can't deliver a specific service.

CriticalMiss:
So the infinite power of the cloud is less infinite than when the Xbone was announced.

The Azure cloud technically can do it, but what they're saying is that introducing this service would lead to so much backlash from people that want/try to use it, but can't because of their poor internet connections. When they can't connect to the cloud because of their crappy connection who do you think they'll blame? It won't be their ISP, it'll be Microsoft that takes the fall, even if it isn't their fault. Why? Because people are stupid.

Advice so nice it's said thrice?

I'm siding with Atmos on this one. "The Cloud" is really only useful for low-bandwidth applications.

As Tiberius said (3x), people will blame Microsoft for their poor internet connection when using Cloud services.

Therefore, Microsoft will not be using high-bandwidth services, such as streaming games, over the Cloud.

Therefore, the Cloud was only ever really intended to be DRM.

TiberiusEsuriens:
The Azure cloud technically can do it, but what they're saying is that introducing this service would lead to so much backlash from people that want/try to use it, but can't because of their poor internet connections. When they can't connect to the cloud because of their crappy connection who do you think they'll blame? It won't be their ISP, it'll be Microsoft that takes the fall, even if it isn't their fault. Why? Because people are stupid.

So your argument is:

"MS is introducing innovations that the world is simply not ready for. It's not MS' fault the rest of the world doesn't have the resources and the infrastructure in place to keep up?"

Told ya so.

I'm certain Sony will have the exact same problems. Only particular games will work well using cloud streaming, and the majority will run into issues that cannot be resolved, ever. Some people might have a high tolerance for the issues, but enough wont so it won't be able to catch on.

Cloud streaming is a nice idea only for people interested in cutting out more consumer rights. If they can't get it fully functional they can't lease games in a way they can revoke at a moments notice.

Fortunately the Speed of Light is on my side. Good luck trying to beat it.

tdylan:

TiberiusEsuriens:
The Azure cloud technically can do it, but what they're saying is that introducing this service would lead to so much backlash from people that want/try to use it, but can't because of their poor internet connections. When they can't connect to the cloud because of their crappy connection who do you think they'll blame? It won't be their ISP, it'll be Microsoft that takes the fall, even if it isn't their fault. Why? Because people are stupid.

So your argument is:

"MS is introducing innovations that the world is simply not ready for. It's not MS' fault the rest of the world doesn't have the resources and the infrastructure in place to keep up?"

Um, no.

The argument was "Microsoft got screwed the last time they said 'If you don't have a good internet connection don't play our games or buy our stuff.'" They now are choosing to throw money at development of things that everyone can do, because their consumers loud and blatantly told them to. Why develop something that half your consumer base doesn't want or can't use when you can make twice as much money on things they can and do?

It's really not viable to have backwards compatibility, at least not for the PS3 and 360. They run on a completely different architecture, and would either have to be emulated, or have the PS3/360 hardware built into the console to run it natively. Emulation is out the window, because not even top-tier gaming PCs come close to having the power to emulate the PS3 and 360 hardware yet. And having the actual hardware is also out the window, because it'd make the console a lot more expensive. Though I would probably buy a backwards compatible version over the regular one if one were to exist, so I don't have to have my PS3 lying around.

That's the first sensible thing I've heard from the Xbone camp. Chapeau, Microsoft.
Still getting neitherbone nor four until one of them has a decent library and the kinks have been worked out, though.

Denamic:
Emulation is out the window, because not even top-tier gaming PCs come close to having the power to emulate the PS3 and 360 hardware yet.

I find this quite hard to believe. I think it's because these consoles aren't abandonware yet, so you can't make an emulator without committing legitimate copyright infringement.

My cell phone has more RAM than the Xbox 360. I think a 32 GB RAM machine running SLI Nvidia Titians and a top of the line 8 core processor could handle a 360 emulator handily. After all, it's only got a tri-core processor. The PS3 is a different beast solely due to it's processor, 8 cores but with one disabled. I'm not exactly certain how it would work, but I can imagine it'd be a bit difficult.

What about original Xbox games? There are a ton of games that I really loved on the original Xbox but last I heard XBL ditched the classics section some time ago (except Halo and Fable...and possibly PGR). When it comes to Sony though, you can download games as far back as the PSX so...there's another point in Sony's favor...only not really since the last games I played on a PSP were Final Fantasy's 7 through 9.

WouldYouKindly:

Denamic:
Emulation is out the window, because not even top-tier gaming PCs come close to having the power to emulate the PS3 and 360 hardware yet.

I find this quite hard to believe. I think it's because these consoles aren't abandonware yet, so you can't make an emulator without committing legitimate copyright infringement.

My cell phone has more RAM than the Xbox 360. I think a 32 GB RAM machine running SLI Nvidia Titians and a top of the line 8 core processor could handle a 360 emulator handily. After all, it's only got a tri-core processor. The PS3 is a different beast solely due to it's processor, 8 cores but with one disabled. I'm not exactly certain how it would work, but I can imagine it'd be a bit difficult.

Let's put it like this. To emulate the 299MHz PS2 CPU, you need at least a 3GHz CPU or get constant slowdowns. Every action the CPU you're emulating takes, you need several on the CPU you're emulating on. The PS3 and 360 both has 3.2 GHz processors, and the PS3 uses cell architecture at that. Even if you magically managed to emulate them with only 4 actions per action, which is impossible, you'd still need a 12GHz CPU. This is why we don't have PS3 or 360 emulators. It's not that they can't be made; we just don't have nearly enough power to run them.

But, but, but, they said The Cloud would solve all out problems!

Glad to see them stating the truth about the Cloud BS for once.

It's slowly seeming like the features attached to the Xbone are less Cloud and more vapor. What good -is- any of this then?

Denamic:
Emulation is out the window, because not even top-tier gaming PCs come close to having the power to emulate the PS3 and 360 hardware yet.

well a quick google found an emulator with these requirements for the 360:

Minimum:
OS: Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7
Processor: Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz or Althon X2 2.7 GHz
RAM: 2GB
Graphic card: ATI Radeon 3870 or higher, Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT or higher.
Graphics card memory: 512 MB

Not even close to top tier

And this comes to the total surprise of ... no one really ...

I mean did anyone really expect this thing to be backward compatible anyway?

Does seem a little silly that they aren't gonna try and make you buy some of the "better 360 games" agian

Is it my imagination or have we had more news about what next gen consoles won't do than we have about what they will do?

josemlopes:
Snip

I know right? After hearing the 24/7 worshiping of the cloud from fanboys, it can't even emulate a 360? What makes it worse is that Sony's promised Playstation 1-3 emulation some time next year...

Mr Ink 5000:

Denamic:
Emulation is out the window, because not even top-tier gaming PCs come close to having the power to emulate the PS3 and 360 hardware yet.

well a quick google found an emulator with these requirements for the 360:

Minimum:
OS: Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7
Processor: Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz or Althon X2 2.7 GHz
RAM: 2GB
Graphic card: ATI Radeon 3870 or higher, Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT or higher.
Graphics card memory: 512 MB

Not even close to top tier

I assume you're referring to the Xenia emulator which is the only legit 360 emulator I know of. Trouble is those requirements don't really mean much seeing as the emulator doesn't actually play games yet, and likely won't for a long time. It's theoretically possible that 360 games could be emulated on current hardware since it's the closest to an actual PC of any of the consoles available right now, but we're a long way from that being a realistic possibility since emulating a console (or in this case, recompiling games) is no easy feat to accomplish. Maybe if you had access to all of the actual design documentation about the console and it's firmware you could do it in a relatively short time, but no one making a PC emulator for free is ever going to have access to that. So instead they have a whole lot of reverse engineering to do, and it only gets harder and more time consuming as consoles become more complex.

Mr Ink 5000:

Denamic:
Emulation is out the window, because not even top-tier gaming PCs come close to having the power to emulate the PS3 and 360 hardware yet.

well a quick google found an emulator with these requirements for the 360:

Minimum:
OS: Windows XP, Vista or Windows 7
Processor: Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz or Althon X2 2.7 GHz
RAM: 2GB
Graphic card: ATI Radeon 3870 or higher, Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT or higher.
Graphics card memory: 512 MB

Not even close to top tier

Heh heh, they're funny.

Any emulator which claims that you need (quote) "a Xbox 360 Blu-ray" clearly isn't technically competent to run anything.

@Vivi22 @Kinitawowi
No idea how well these emulators work, I found two each for 360 and PS3, but they were all ready for download and one was boasting running GTAV

Unfortunately I can not test them out as downloading an Iso image of a game is probably piracy, but even if these things run a little temperamental, I'm sure Sony and MS could do it better and charge for an app.

Mr Ink 5000:
@Vivi22 @Kinitawowi
No idea how well these emulators work, I found two each for 360 and PS3, but they were all ready for download and one was boasting running GTAV

Unfortunately I can not test them out as downloading an Iso image of a game is probably piracy, but even if these things run a little temperamental, I'm sure Sony and MS could do it better and charge for an app.

No, there is no actual emulator for this gen out there, even for the previous gen its still a work in progress.

Well I never really expected it to do that, I think marketing departments need to calm down about cloud processing. I'll just hold on to my 360, it's no big thing.
Getting real tired of this anti-hype train people sony fanboys keep running against the xbox.

josemlopes:

Mr Ink 5000:
@Vivi22 @Kinitawowi
No idea how well these emulators work, I found two each for 360 and PS3, but they were all ready for download and one was boasting running GTAV

Unfortunately I can not test them out as downloading an Iso image of a game is probably piracy, but even if these things run a little temperamental, I'm sure Sony and MS could do it better and charge for an app.

No, there is no actual emulator for this gen out there, even for the previous gen its still a work in progress.

the sites I looked at said the emulators were ready for download. Seems pretty reasonable that 8 year old consoles can be emulated.

Mr Ink 5000:

josemlopes:

Mr Ink 5000:
@Vivi22 @Kinitawowi
No idea how well these emulators work, I found two each for 360 and PS3, but they were all ready for download and one was boasting running GTAV

Unfortunately I can not test them out as downloading an Iso image of a game is probably piracy, but even if these things run a little temperamental, I'm sure Sony and MS could do it better and charge for an app.

No, there is no actual emulator for this gen out there, even for the previous gen its still a work in progress.

the sites I looked at said the emulators were ready for download. Seems pretty reasonable that 8 year old consoles can be emulated.

The process of emulating a console isnt just power, thats why its called emulation, the PC has to simulate the exact same conditions of the console on top of itself and when the console uses a different structure then you can see why it isnt as basic.

There are a lot of scam emulators, if you go to an actual emulation forum you will see that there isnt actually any PS3/Xbox 360 emulator out there that can play games, there isnt even a properly functional emulator for the original Xbox due to lack of proper information about the system.

tdylan:

"MS is introducing innovations that the world is simply not ready for. It's not MS' fault the rest of the world doesn't have the resources and the infrastructure in place to keep up?"

More like the rest of the world doesn't want to place infrastructure and instead are complacend with ISPs midday robberies and unrealiable internet. From the prices they are putting on internet in pretty much any first world country they are making so much profit that they could give everyone fiber optics, twice. But why do that if your costumers are not going to complain about shitty internet they got now, right?
I mean i heard your contracts dont even have uptime of internet specified. why? of course so they couldnt be sued for failing to provide service we pay them for.

canadamus_prime:
Is it my imagination or have we had more news about what next gen consoles won't do than we have about what they will do?

Yep. I did point out couple times already that if Microsoft continues to announce features they are taking out at the same rate till launch the console will end up being an expensive papperweight.

After that, Sony started such announcements as well....

josemlopes:

Mr Ink 5000:

josemlopes:

No, there is no actual emulator for this gen out there, even for the previous gen its still a work in progress.

the sites I looked at said the emulators were ready for download. Seems pretty reasonable that 8 year old consoles can be emulated.

The process of emulating a console isnt just power, thats why its called emulation, the PC has to simulate the exact same conditions of the console on top of itself and when the console uses a different structure then you can see why it isnt as basic.

There are a lot of scam emulators, if you go to an actual emulation forum you will see that there isnt actually any PS3/Xbox 360 emulator out there that can play games, there isnt even a properly functional emulator for the original Xbox due to lack of proper information about the system.

do you have any links to legitimate emulator forums? I'm quite curious to look into this.

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