StarCraft 2: Legacy of the Void Needs More Work, Blizzard Says

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StarCraft 2: Legacy of the Void Needs More Work, Blizzard Says

Legacy of the Void Protoss Zeratul

StarCraft 2's Protoss expansion isn't out yet because its units don't feel like the Protoss.

Speaking personally, I've never been one to wait patiently for a hotly anticipated game. Whether it turns out to be a critical success or underwhelming flop, I just want the thing in my hands so I can play and judge for myself. That being said, sometimes games need the extra development time because of bugs, unexpected setbacks, or even internal strife.

So exactly what reason does Blizzard have for keeping StarCraft 2: Legacy of the Void from us? It already took 12 years to get the first StarCraft sequel out the door, and Heart of the Swarm suffered its own delays. Why can't Blizzard just get us our expansion about technologically advanced Protoss? According to game director Dustin Browder, it's simply because the Protoss don't feel like Protoss yet.

"The missions are coming along," Browder said at BlizzCon 2013. "I'm pretty happy with the story, but the missions need some more work and the campaign mechanics -- like how you progress as the Protoss -- needs some more work before we are ready to show anything."

When pressed, Browder added that "it didn't feel like you were playing the Protoss. You want to have that feeling like 'We're the Protoss. We're these bad-ass space Samurai. We're going to lay down our lives for the greater good ... oh, and by the way, we could glass you planet if you mess with us.'"

The issue is complex because, from a developers perspective, Protoss shouldn't be powerful in the same way Terrans or Zerg are. Unlike Heart of the Swarm, where Kerrigan could fight armies by herself, Protoss strength is based in advanced technology, not the strength of individual units. "That felt great for the goddess queen of the Zerg. But that's not what I want the Protoss to feel like," Browder said. "There's no one Protoss warrior who should be out there destroying whole armies by himself. Maybe Zeratul, but he'd have to be sneaky about it.

"We want to get that feeling of 'We're the Protoss and we have technology that you haven't even dreamed of' ... We want to get that sense of power without the focus on a single character. So we're still working on that."

Source: WarCry

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That's fine. I can go back to not anticipating the title at all like I've been doing since Starcraft 2 released.

I would rather they take their time and make it good and I have not yet finished heart of the Swarm despite getting it a few days after release as I hate playing as Zerg so it will be a while before I finish it. That being said I really want to have a whole game with Zeratul in it.

Fanghawk:

The issue is complex because, from a developers perspective, Protoss shouldn't be powerful in the same way Terrans or Zerg are. Unlike Heart of the Swarm, where Kerrigan could fight armies by herself, Protoss strength is based in advanced technology, not the strength of individual units. "That felt great for the goddess queen of the Zerg. But that's not what I want the Protoss to feel like," Browder said. "There's no one Protoss warrior who should be out there destroying whole armies by himself. Maybe Zeratul, but he'd have to be sneaky about it.

Did... did these guys play Starcraft 1?

12 years later and they tell us it'll be split into 3 parts. We all know its coz well, GREED. Comes out, its SC1 with a new engine and new units. But then to charge FULL GAME PRICE for an expansion pack. And now.....more delays for an EXPANSION PACK.

The Crotch:

Fanghawk:

The issue is complex because, from a developers perspective, Protoss shouldn't be powerful in the same way Terrans or Zerg are. Unlike Heart of the Swarm, where Kerrigan could fight armies by herself, Protoss strength is based in advanced technology, not the strength of individual units. "That felt great for the goddess queen of the Zerg. But that's not what I want the Protoss to feel like," Browder said. "There's no one Protoss warrior who should be out there destroying whole armies by himself. Maybe Zeratul, but he'd have to be sneaky about it.

Did... did these guys play Starcraft 1?

and yeh lol really ?

So let me get this straight - They're having troubles with balancing the gameplay for the Protoss when they've already been balanced and implemented into multiplayer? Erm, okay.

AstaresPanda:
12 years later and they tell us it'll be split into 3 parts. We all know its coz well, GREED. Comes out, its SC1 with a new engine and new units. But then to charge FULL GAME PRICE for an expansion pack. And now.....more delays for an EXPANSION PACK.

1: Wings of Liberty's campaign had about as many missions as the entirety of Starcraft 1's.
2: It's a sequel, what the hell more do you want?
3: Heart of the Swarm was priced as an expansion pack, not a full game.

Huh...I kind of thought the idea was to throw as many crazy unit designs in as possible for the main campaign and then pare some of em' down for multiplayer balance. Though, I -kind- of get what they're saying, the Protoss don't really have a kind of character like Kerrigen...well, besides Zeratul, but they've kind of relegated him to wise old man status which is a shame.

Guess we're going back to playing as the Executor. And what a load of character he/she had. x)

I was pretty disappointed with Heart of the Swarm. And I know because I only replayed it once, whereas Wings of Liberty I must have replayed 6 or 7 times it was that good. So they should take all the time they need to make Legacy of the Void great.

I'm not in a hurry to burn through another Starcraft campaign, they need to be satisfying.

GothmogII:
Huh...I kind of thought the idea was to throw as many crazy unit designs in as possible for the main campaign and then pare some of em' down for multiplayer balance. Though, I -kind- of get what they're saying, the Protoss don't really have a kind of character like Kerrigen...well, besides Zeratul, but they've kind of relegated him to wise old man status which is a shame.

Guess we're going back to playing as the Executor. And what a load of character he/she had. x)

Unless they've changed their minds (or lied), Zeratul is going to be the protagonist of this one. Granted, it sounds like he'll mostly be running around doing diplomacy, but in this universe, 'diplomacy' usually boils down to 'go kill this thing for me, then I'll help you' anyways.

Actually, that sums up diplomacy in most games, along with 'if you stop trying to kill me I'll join your side.'

OT: The long development cycle is irritating, but preferable to the alternative. I loved Wings of Liberty, and I really liked Heart of the Swarm. I just hope they don't leave out as much as they did in HotS (I was kind of upset over the lack of Overseers and Overlords that could do pretty much anything aside from provide population) and that the Protoss will continue the tradition of ridiculous single-player OP goodness.

AstaresPanda:
12 years later and they tell us it'll be split into 3 parts. We all know its coz well, GREED. Comes out, its SC1 with a new engine and new units. But then to charge FULL GAME PRICE for an expansion pack. And now.....more delays for an EXPANSION PACK.

I'm sorry, it seems you never played SC1 or SC2. SC2 is NOTHING like SC1, on the surface it may bear its name and have some of its units but in reality they are nothing alike. SC1 was fun, challenging and deep, SC2 is just baby's first rts :). Also the story is completely awful, Raynor wanted to kill Kerrigan at the end of BW but they decided to change that into a cheesy love story? Good job Blizzard. They are just milking money out of the franchise at this point for as long as there are people looking for the next step after hours of candy crush and farmville, just like WoW.

as long as it comes out i don't care how long it takes i waited for the first parts

BanicRhys:

AstaresPanda:
12 years later and they tell us it'll be split into 3 parts. We all know its coz well, GREED. Comes out, its SC1 with a new engine and new units. But then to charge FULL GAME PRICE for an expansion pack. And now.....more delays for an EXPANSION PACK.

1: Wings of Liberty's campaign had about as many missions as the entirety of Starcraft 1's.
2: It's a sequel, what the hell more do you want?
3: Heart of the Swarm was priced as an expansion pack, not a full game.

1: Full Disclaimer: I've never played WoL because, like the person you quoted, I was right-proper PISSED that they broke SC2 into 3 separate games. That said, however, I have heard that it does indeed contain a good 30 missions. I've also heard that a good 20 of those missions could be cut from the game and have the story completely unaffected...meaning they're just fluff and padding, completely unnecessary. If that's true, then the bulk of the story is only told across about 10 missions...just about as many missions as each campaign had in SC and BW.
2: A game with 3 campaigns, and an expansion with 3 campaigns that expanded the story told in the three campaigns from the core title.
3: They're still charging three times for what I (and apparently others, considering Banic's post) felt should have only been one game.

That's okay, Blizzard. Take your time. I'm a patient bitch.

Hm, curious. At least in Starcraft 1, the Protoss did feel like each individual warrior was more powerful. I don't quite get what he means with the feel he wants to evoke, how that is supposed to work in practice, but remember that even their weakest unit, the Zealot, was more powerful and more expensive than the other races' starters. I guess that had to do with the shields rather than the hitpoints, but it felt like they were pretty tough little buggers already. What is he trying to do?

The Crotch:
Did... did these guys play Starcraft 1?

Exactly my thoughts. Protoss have shields because they're technologically advanced yeah but more importantly, it's to make their units more durable and consequently more expensive to create a balance.

RJ 17:

BanicRhys:

AstaresPanda:
12 years later and they tell us it'll be split into 3 parts. We all know its coz well, GREED. Comes out, its SC1 with a new engine and new units. But then to charge FULL GAME PRICE for an expansion pack. And now.....more delays for an EXPANSION PACK.

1: Wings of Liberty's campaign had about as many missions as the entirety of Starcraft 1's.
2: It's a sequel, what the hell more do you want?
3: Heart of the Swarm was priced as an expansion pack, not a full game.

1: Full Disclaimer: I've never played WoL because, like the person you quoted, I was right-proper PISSED that they broke SC2 into 3 separate games. That said, however, I have heard that it does indeed contain a good 30 missions. I've also heard that a good 20 of those missions could be cut from the game and have the story completely unaffected...meaning they're just fluff and padding, completely unnecessary. If that's true, then the bulk of the story is only told across about 10 missions...just about as many missions as each campaign had in SC and BW.
2: A game with 3 campaigns, and an expansion with 3 campaigns that expanded the story told in the three campaigns from the core title.
3: They're still charging three times for what I (and apparently others, considering Banic's post) felt should have only been one game.

The story of the first game can be told in about two paragraphs as a tack-on in a fully realized novel. You have to understand that most game stories are fluff. It's all padding. There's nothing new that's coming from these stories that will shake or make comment on any socio-economic structures or have any impact past the emotional/visceral feeling of whatever the player may experience through interacting with the game. The question becomes of how much value and ascribed interest do you place unto whatever piece of mission or story-bit that you're looking at.

This differs from person to person, unfortunately. Ultimately, however, there's no real reason to just shoo away exposition and story-telling because it's "filler" in a series that's been largely nothing but filler. To that effect, the majority of exposition and actual effort that was put into story-telling in SC2 was miles ahead of anything SC1 was capable of (in the form of the semi-explorable Hyperion, Raynor's interactions with characters prior to missions, foreshadowing (regardless of how hammy it may have been at times), and just an overall expansion of the universe that SC had set up. It's certainly not going in the direction of power-struggle over a single sector of space that SC1 went for, sure, but that does not really... Make more gameplay simply be "padding".

I suppose my recommendation would be just to experience the single-player through someone else who owns the game if they're willing to share their account, but at the same time it's just another game that's, on the technical level, fairly excellent. The shaping of the story and whatnot is left to the viewer. In that vein, I personally think that this story being told in a singular title would likely result in a fairly lame experience given the subject matter they're tackling. The scope of "the antagonist" which we are "facing against" is much larger, so there is very little problem in giving a bigger amount of exposition to every faction from which they can be properly explored.

Also, greed? I mean... I don't know how greed works, but one game every four years is probably... Not the most "questionable" decision that's based on monetary gain that people can pin-point as Blizzard's downfall at this point. It's fairly weak in terms of an actual argument when the current-day context of corporate greed is exemplified by CoD: The Next Warfare being released every single year.

OT:
Yeah, this isn't that surprising. I, personally, couldn't care less about how long it takes as long as it's done, because this is the campaign I have the most interest in. I think what a lot of people are reading wrong here is individual power as compared to protagonists, but the point stands that, when isolated from technology the Protoss are actually fairly frail, so their INDIVIDUAL character presence lacks a certain defining primarch? I suppose would be a good word. Zeratul is a strong leading role, but he does not have Kerrigan's raw power output to present in combat. Something like an Archon or a being of intense ability is necessary to convey Protoss capability (even if it is through means of technology). With the direction the story is going, while subterfuge that Zeratul is capable of is likely going to be valuable, the necessity to bring firepower is going to be necessary when the "end" comes, so to speak. Nothing else without spoilers.

Okay? This is pretty much what Blizzard does. They push back games over and over until they get it exactly like they want it. I see no problem with this. God forbid a developer actually give a shit about their product rather than just try to push out sequels as quickly as possible.

RJ 17:

BanicRhys:

AstaresPanda:
12 years later and they tell us it'll be split into 3 parts. We all know its coz well, GREED. Comes out, its SC1 with a new engine and new units. But then to charge FULL GAME PRICE for an expansion pack. And now.....more delays for an EXPANSION PACK.

1: Wings of Liberty's campaign had about as many missions as the entirety of Starcraft 1's.
2: It's a sequel, what the hell more do you want?
3: Heart of the Swarm was priced as an expansion pack, not a full game.

1: Full Disclaimer: I've never played WoL because, like the person you quoted, I was right-proper PISSED that they broke SC2 into 3 separate games. That said, however, I have heard that it does indeed contain a good 30 missions. I've also heard that a good 20 of those missions could be cut from the game and have the story completely unaffected...meaning they're just fluff and padding, completely unnecessary. If that's true, then the bulk of the story is only told across about 10 missions...just about as many missions as each campaign had in SC and BW.

And all of StarCraft 1's missions were completely necessary? Brood war probably could've been summed up in 5 missions.

2: A game with 3 campaigns, and an expansion with 3 campaigns that expanded the story told in the three campaigns from the core title.

So because they did it that way 15 years ago, it has to be exactly the same today? You'd still be getting the same content.

3: They're still charging three times for what I (and apparently others, considering Banic's post) felt should have only been one game.

They're also charging 3 times for what I, and apparently others, feel works really well as a trilogy.

Saying they "split SC2 into 3 parts" is like saying they "split the Warcraft RTS series into 3 parts", or that Mass Effect/The Witcher has been "split into 3 parts"

Dont much care, not planning on buying this one either, so they can take as long as they want.

I bought WoL, had some fun, not worth the cost they want for the two expansions. I am sure that after all three have been released I will be able to pick them up in a battlechest or some such for the price of one expansion.

Skeleon:
Hm, curious. At least in Starcraft 1, the Protoss did feel like each individual warrior was more powerful. I don't quite get what he means with the feel he wants to evoke, how that is supposed to work in practice, but remember that even their weakest unit, the Zealot, was more powerful and more expensive than the other races' starters. I guess that had to do with the shields rather than the hitpoints, but it felt like they were pretty tough little buggers already. What is he trying to do?

Protoss have been refluffed to "cower behind forcefields, wait for giant robot to attack enemy from out of range", I guess?

The Crotch:

Fanghawk:

The issue is complex because, from a developers perspective, Protoss shouldn't be powerful in the same way Terrans or Zerg are. Unlike Heart of the Swarm, where Kerrigan could fight armies by herself, Protoss strength is based in advanced technology, not the strength of individual units. "That felt great for the goddess queen of the Zerg. But that's not what I want the Protoss to feel like," Browder said. "There's no one Protoss warrior who should be out there destroying whole armies by himself. Maybe Zeratul, but he'd have to be sneaky about it.

Did... did these guys play Starcraft 1?

Could it be a misquote of some kind? I can't imagine it being an actual quote from someone who actually takes part in Starcraft development. Protoss are all about the strength of individual units, it pretty much goes hand in hand with advanced technology and limited amount of troops. It's the other races that rely on numbers. This makes no sense to me whatsoever.

The Crotch:
Protoss have been refluffed to "cower behind forcefields, wait for giant robot to attack enemy from out of range", I guess?

Perhaps, although that would be a major change. Not that I dislike the concept for a high-tech race as such (it makes sense, why risk harm and death?), but the Protoss were already pretty well established. I mean, they are more like high-tech psychic warrior monks than drone-operators. Sure, they had robotic minions to supplement their forces, but it's not like they shied away from direct confrontation. I always saw the robots they had as a way to increase their very small numbers with support units, not as a way to avoid direct conflict.

LazyAza:
I was pretty disappointed with Heart of the Swarm. And I know because I only replayed it once, whereas Wings of Liberty I must have replayed 6 or 7 times it was that good. So they should take all the time they need to make Legacy of the Void great.

I'm not in a hurry to burn through another Starcraft campaign, they need to be satisfying.

Have to agree with this. Heart of the Swarm just didn't live up to Wing's legacy in my opinion. Although the multiplayer now feels much more fluid and balanced, the campaign was lack-luster.

Skeleon:
Hm, curious. At least in Starcraft 1, the Protoss did feel like each individual warrior was more powerful. I don't quite get what he means with the feel he wants to evoke, how that is supposed to work in practice, but remember that even their weakest unit, the Zealot, was more powerful and more expensive than the other races' starters. I guess that had to do with the shields rather than the hitpoints, but it felt like they were pretty tough little buggers already. What is he trying to do?

I think what they're trying to say is that Kerrigan really is the Zerg in HotS. Her minions are just that, inconsequential tides that function to strength a whole but are expendable individually. This makes sense considering the one unit I never wanted to lose was Kerrigan, who made my army exponentially more powerful by being around. She was always with whatever force I needed to keep intact, where as all my skirmishers tended to be throw away units that simply did some damage and then died. Contrast this with the Protoss who are individuals that create synergy to become a whole and the importance of a single unit type really does matter. When they're talking about "that one unit" it's Kerrigan and I agree that that style doesn't really fit the Protoss feel, regardless if they have a comparable hero in Zeratul or not.

Also, the language they use lends itself to suggesting that their upgrade choices seem to be lacking as well. In WoL the Terran bought permanent upgrades, in HotS the Zerg had interchangeable evolutions as well as a more powerful permanent evolution that changed how you fought with that unit. Protoss would be an entirely new challenge in that they tend to be very upgrade centric yet the two previous systems don't lend themselves well at all to the Protoss feel. I assume they're going to have to have a system where each unit has tiered upgrade trees and you can either maximize your potential in a role or gain some balance at the cost of strength.

In the end, I'm not sure what they'll create but it's good to know that in this market there are companies that still want to take the time to get it right instead of rushing out an unfinished product.

Not like itll be perfect when it comes out anyways, what with all the patches/nerfs/buffs they allways do.

I hate when companies do that. I just install the base game. I hate updates, on pc games, xbox games, windows operating system. I just want the thing allready. It was perfect enough for you to attach your name to it in the first place

harrisonmcgiggins:
Not like itll be perfect when it comes out anyways, what with all the patches/nerfs/buffs they allways do.

I hate when companies do that. I just install the base game. I hate updates, on pc games, xbox games, windows operating system. I just want the thing allready. It was perfect enough for you to attach your name to it in the first place

So, there's a company that cares about it's product to go out of their way to provide fixes to bugs and improvements to their software after the release, completely for free, and you hate it?
Well, you can always choose to pick one of these many games out there that has an extensive known bugs list with no fixes at all.

Tanklover:

AstaresPanda:
12 years later and they tell us it'll be split into 3 parts. We all know its coz well, GREED. Comes out, its SC1 with a new engine and new units. But then to charge FULL GAME PRICE for an expansion pack. And now.....more delays for an EXPANSION PACK.

I'm sorry, it seems you never played SC1 or SC2. SC2 is NOTHING like SC1, on the surface it may bear its name and have some of its units but in reality they are nothing alike. SC1 was fun, challenging and deep, SC2 is just baby's first rts :). Also the story is completely awful, Raynor wanted to kill Kerrigan at the end of BW but they decided to change that into a cheesy love story? Good job Blizzard. They are just milking money out of the franchise at this point for as long as there are people looking for the next step after hours of candy crush and farmville, just like WoW.

I still love Starcraft and I got both WoL and HotS as CE.. but yeah. I dislike the story a great deal. The total redoing of the Overmind, the not-dead Tassadar, the sudden moodswing of Jim, the Kerrigan who suddenly feel bad about murdering everybody (when in SC1 we learn that she still has her independent mind..)

darkszero:

harrisonmcgiggins:
Not like itll be perfect when it comes out anyways, what with all the patches/nerfs/buffs they allways do.

I hate when companies do that. I just install the base game. I hate updates, on pc games, xbox games, windows operating system. I just want the thing allready. It was perfect enough for you to attach your name to it in the first place

So, there's a company that cares about it's product to go out of their way to provide fixes to bugs and improvements to their software after the release, completely for free, and you hate it?
Well, you can always choose to pick one of these many games out there that has an extensive known bugs list with no fixes at all.

Yup, its mine. I got it, now leave me and mine alone.. And the starcraft 2 patches basically changed a Ton of how starcraft 2 multiplayer even worked. If you had stategies that were valid and good before, you had to get/make new ones.

But I dont play multiplayer, so screw that lol

Personally I bought the first one on a whim but don't like their business model here so sat out the Zerg expansion. With the advent of Steam and digital distribution I'm not paying $180 for Starcraft 2, I like it but I'm just not that big a fan.

Now while I usually approve of developers taking more time to get a game right I'm pretty skeptical on this one. Blizzard is massively profitable, should have buckets of money, and they're making a relatively low tech game here, no scratch that, an expansion to a low tech game, that is guaranteed to sell millions. I don't know what it is but something here isn't adding up. I mean what do they have like 5 people working on the game or something?

RandV80:
Personally I bought the first one on a whim but don't like their business model here so sat out the Zerg expansion. With the advent of Steam and digital distribution I'm not paying $180 for Starcraft 2, I like it but I'm just not that big a fan.

Now while I usually approve of developers taking more time to get a game right I'm pretty skeptical on this one. Blizzard is massively profitable, should have buckets of money, and they're making a relatively low tech game here, no scratch that, an expansion to a low tech game, that is guaranteed to sell millions. I don't know what it is but something here isn't adding up. I mean what do they have like 5 people working on the game or something?

If you bought them all full priced at launch, it would cost $140. In the same time period, buying just the base game of CoD with each new release would run you a minimum of $240, with an additional $60 with each new year. But wait, there's more! Each of those also has map packs and DLC to buy, so to get the full game will cost you an additional... $60!

So while you may not like that the game is split (I'm fine, I like 30 missions to learn the new race and explore the characters, and yes, I do like the over the top story), it definitely doesn't qualify as greedy.

Fanghawk:
It already took 12 years to get the first StarCraft sequel out the door, and Heart of the Swarm suffered its own delays.

I hate when people say things like that, because it sends the impression that people think the sequel for a game started the very moment that the first was released. Starcraft 2 did not take "12 years to get out the door". Starcraft waited 12 years before a sequel was released, sure, but the game itself didn't take much more than a few years to actually make.

Anyway, it's interesting to see something actually get said about Legacy of the Void, since this BlizzCon's announcements seemed to completely forget that there was even a second expansion coming out. I guess this is something that they talked about in the press area. Over-all though, I don't see it as bad news. As the old saying goes, a delayed game can eventually be good, but a game that's rushed out the door before its ready will be bad forever.

I'm not upset with this; when blizzard rush stuff instead of doing it with good polish it ends up feeling really incomplete. I remember when the Cataclysm WoW expansion came out and parts of the world felt hardly done with no chests/non-quest mobs etc etc, Uldum was a really bad example of this.

RandV80:
Now while I usually approve of developers taking more time to get a game right I'm pretty skeptical on this one. Blizzard is massively profitable, should have buckets of money, and they're making a relatively low tech game here, no scratch that, an expansion to a low tech game, that is guaranteed to sell millions. I don't know what it is but something here isn't adding up. I mean what do they have like 5 people working on the game or something?

For the most part Blizzard don't have a history of lobbing money and human resources at games or expansions (especially when the expansion pretty much has to hold up as a single player experience) to get them out the door.

Sean951:

RandV80:
Personally I bought the first one on a whim but don't like their business model here so sat out the Zerg expansion. With the advent of Steam and digital distribution I'm not paying $180 for Starcraft 2, I like it but I'm just not that big a fan.

Now while I usually approve of developers taking more time to get a game right I'm pretty skeptical on this one. Blizzard is massively profitable, should have buckets of money, and they're making a relatively low tech game here, no scratch that, an expansion to a low tech game, that is guaranteed to sell millions. I don't know what it is but something here isn't adding up. I mean what do they have like 5 people working on the game or something?

If you bought them all full priced at launch, it would cost $140. In the same time period, buying just the base game of CoD with each new release would run you a minimum of $240, with an additional $60 with each new year. But wait, there's more! Each of those also has map packs and DLC to buy, so to get the full game will cost you an additional... $60!

So while you may not like that the game is split (I'm fine, I like 30 missions to learn the new race and explore the characters, and yes, I do like the over the top story), it definitely doesn't qualify as greedy.

Well Call of Duty isn't exactly the best example here because non-MMO aside that's pretty much the most expensive game out there! And that's a console game, Starcraft is on PC. To use a better example of the high end I'm willing to go for, look at the Civilization series. New game comes out for $50, and they release 2 expansion packs for $30 each. And if you're short or don't want to pay full price, you can wait a while as the digital versions will always go on sale at some point like most other PC games. Personally I usually end up getting some part of it on sale, though my decision to not buy it now is more to do with "oh god I don't have the time to get addicted to Civ again right now!" Then I wait till Christmas or another slow period where I can throw a few weeks away! So basically my main complaint is that Blizzard hasn't followed other PC developers in depreciating the value of their games.

As for Wings of Liberty, I kind of wish it had more filler. I mean the campaign was pretty good, but it seems like they'd have a map that introduced a new toy, but then they'd take it away from you and hand you another toy for the next map. Like those cool hover car tank things, how often do you really have an opportunity to use them after the train mission? Interesting and unique maps are good, but sometimes you just want to have a base on your side, an enemy base (or 2 or 3) on the other, and leave you up to your own devices on how to beat them.

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