Rumor: Bethesda Teases Next Fallout With New Website - UPDATED

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Tiamat666:

00slash00:

I completely forgot China was in Human Revolution. Rome was in one of the Assassin's Creed games but I don't recall seeing France, except in Velvet Assassin or something. Europe would be a better location from a visual standpoint. I feel like there's a lot more well known and iconic buildings and architecture in Europe than in China. I just think that since China is such a major part of the Fallout lore, it could be a more interesting setting as far as story is concerned.

I'm in the process of catching up with the Assassins Creed series. Only finished the first title recently. Nice to know that Rome is on the agenda.
Actually, I don't know much about Fallout lore. I missed playing the originals back in the day and only started with Fallout 3. I know that China and the U.S. nuked the hell out of each other, but I have no idea how Europe plays into it all and what is actually going on there, as it isn't mentioned much in the games either. Maybe that's also a good reason to explore it in a new Fallout game.

You seem to know a bit about Fallout lore. Maybe you can explain to me how come there are Chinese rifles spread around all over the U.S? ;) As far as I know, the Chinese only invaded Alaska.

Yeah, I don't know what role the rest of the world had in things. I would imagine they're be involved some way. I know the US annexed Canada so when China Nuked the US, they would have Nuked Canada as well. I don't recall hearing about Europe though. It definitely seems like its a part of the story worth exploring, China just seems like the next logical step, since they were they other key player in the war.

I'm not exactly a master of Fallout lore. Most of what I know I learned from playing Fallout 1 and 2, and that was about a decade ago. But to my knowledge, there were Chinese spies in D.C. and China also snuck Chinese weaponry in to America in order to equip communists and Chinese sleeper agents within the country

If Fallout was set anywhere else but America, expect massive changes, not just in geography, but the entire setting. FOr one, there are no Vaults in Europe, or Russia, or Australia, or whereever it could be set outside the US. They might have some bomb shelter system, but nothing like the Vaults, well except Russia, since their whole metro system was actually designed to act as a nuclear fallout shelter but we already have a post-apocalyptic game franchise for russia, so that one is out anyway.

So, Vaults are gone. FEV is gone, which means no supermutants or similarly mutated critters such as deathclaws. The thing about the mutated critters is that during the War several bombs hit West-Tek which released FEV into the atmosphere which sort of bonded with the radiation and settled on the surface, i.e. ridiculous mutations. Ghouls are unlikely since their creation requires a sudden, massive burst of radiation without the heat and pressure that a nuclear blast produces, given we lack vaults..unlikely.

Now onto the Setting. The war happened in 2077, not the 1950s. America was culturally stuck in the mindset of that timeperiod, they basicly never had their 60s, 70s or 90s. Hence why for example they have those oversized cars and those 50s fashion. That does not mean the rest of the world was similarly stuck. Say China, or Japan, or France could have had, culturally speaking, a highly advanced society, post-modern so to speak.

So to recap:
-No Vaults
-No FEV (Supermutants, Deathclaws, probably Ghouls)
-No 50s stuff

And thats just the changes which are fact at this point. Basicly no country other than the US would function like the US does if we would set the Fallout games there. The games would be so radically different that they may as well make it a new franchise entirely. Plus all your known factions are gone. All of them without exception. Because their existance is based upon very specific and precise circumstances that you cant just re-create elsewhere. Fallout: London would NOT be Fallout. It is that simple.

A-D.:
-No FEV (Supermutants, Deathclaws, probably Ghouls)

Ghouls are created by radiation only, Avellone switched sides and agrees with Tim Cain.

Anyways, Fallout games set outside the U.S. would be terrible because how bad the rest of the world is, Tenpenny left Europe to come to the C.W. because Europe is JUST much of a hell-hole that the C.W., and America by comparison, is seen as a great place.

There would be less of civilization in general in other lands, it would just be roving gangs of raiders and cannibals.

00slash00:
I don't recall hearing about Europe though. It definitely seems like its a part of the story worth exploring,

"Allistair Tenpenny came to the Capital Wasteland from Great Britain to seek his fortune, so that alone tells you that the U.K. was also hit in the war. And if he came to U.S. to succeed, that says a lot about how screwed up Europe must be. So we just allude, a little bit, to the state of the rest of the world. We like to leave a lot to the players' imaginations, and somebody like Tenpenny serves as a catalyst for those thoughts. " - Emil Pagliarulo

SajuukKhar:

A-D.:
-No FEV (Supermutants, Deathclaws, probably Ghouls)

Ghouls are created by radiation only, Avellone switched sides and agrees with Tim Cain.

I know this, i was going by Fallout 1 on that and Ghouls were created because the Vault didnt close completely, hence massive radiation. I simply put them in the list because their creation is also too specific to have it happen twice at random. Supermutants are pure FEV dips and Deathclaws are a combo of the aforementioned radiation+FEV combo. As are most critters in the wasteland aside from Floaters, Wanamingos and Centaurs, Wanamingos being a special case since they are a secret weapon project thing. And by the time Fallout 4 would be set, they have all died out anyway.

A-D.:
I know this, i was going by Fallout 1 on that and Ghouls were created because the Vault didnt close completely, hence massive radiation. I simply put them in the list because their creation is also too specific to have it happen twice at random.

Except tons of Ghouls, as in all of them in the CW, and the Midwest, formed the way way the necropolis Ghouls did. The creation of ghouls happened all over the world.

A-D.:
and Deathclaws are a combo of the aforementioned radiation+FEV combo. As are most critters in the wasteland

Actually they aren't, wasteland monsters such as Mirelurks, Radscorpions, Yao Guai, etc. etc. are pure radiation based.

When the West-Tek facility was hit by nukes, and the FEV containers broke, the massive radiation mutated the FEV, which made it lose its mutagenic properties, while everything is infected with this kind of FEV, it doesn't cause mutations itself.

Normal FEV causes sterility in all subjects, yet every mutant animal from Radscorpions to Yao guai can breed.

Dascylus:

SuperfastJellyfish:
I'm not American, but fallout doesn't work anywhere but America. Maybe spinoffs, but the main Fallout storyline is a hyper parody of America/America in the fifties.

That's why England would work... Post-war atmosphere bombed out London baby.

The American setting is based on 50s america and the attitudes raised surrounding fear of nuclear war.
A british setting could play on similar themes but play on the british reaction which was national pride/xenophobia.

Europe in general had a pretty rough time in it pre-50s (to understate it just a bit) so why shouldn't it be just as rich a thematic setting.

So I guess you dont like Vaults, Super Mutants, FEV critters, Death Claws, Brotherhood of Steel, Enclave ect?

Because those are all things unique to the US in the Fallout universe.

Hell you may as well just call it "Post apocolyptic 50s game!" because itwouldnt be fallout, it would be a random game set in a blown up UK.

SajuukKhar:

A-D.:
I know this, i was going by Fallout 1 on that and Ghouls were created because the Vault didnt close completely, hence massive radiation. I simply put them in the list because their creation is also too specific to have it happen twice at random.

Except tons of Ghouls, as in all of them in the CW, and the Midwest, formed the way way the necropolis Ghouls did. The creation of ghouls happened all over the world.

A-D.:
and Deathclaws are a combo of the aforementioned radiation+FEV combo. As are most critters in the wasteland

Actually they aren't, wasteland monsters such as Mirelurks, Radscorpions, Yao Guai, etc. etc. are pure radiation based.

And even if they weren't, when the West-Tek facility was hit during the war, it shot tons of FEV into the air, and the airstreams carried the FEV all over the world. It wasn't just america, it spread across the globe.

Actually, the Midwest Ghouls relocated there after Necropolis was wiped out, which is canon. As for the DC Ghouls, well some would fit due to the subway system, so again it makes sense there. However i highly doubt that most of the world has systems similar enough for this to happen. I.e. it has to let the radiation in, but has to keep the pressure-wave and heat-wave out, both are very hard to pull off, which means there are no Ghouls "all over the world" because their existance, or creation is very specific since you have to be really close to a nuclear bomb detonation while being shielded just enough that you dont die instantly. Bakersfield was a freak accident, its not something you could technically predict or plan for ahead of time. The whole idea of Vault 12 was to find out what happens in case a vault does not close entirely, which means it is unlikely this occured very often and elsewhere. The existance of Ghouls in DC is anti-canon (too unlikely), but i blame Bethesda for this, just like i blame them for re-using the Enclave

Also, yes all critters, Mirelurks included are a result of radiation mixing with the FEV which was released, however consider that FEV is and was a limited ressource no matter what, which means the US was affected most. Basicly in relation it implies that critters elsewhere would be affected much less. Plus then you have to consider that the bestiary changes. Europe has no bears (or very few), or scorpions, or alligators, or jackson lizards. Point being that With all things considered, it would just be Fallout in name only, as it has no relation to the rest of the series, there would be no known enemies, or setting overall. Hence may as well just make a new franchise instead.

A-D.:
Also, yes all critters, Mirelurks included are a result of radiation mixing with the FEV which was released

Wrong, the only person who said that is Avellone, who later admitted he was wrong
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mutations_and_their_causes#Variants

First, Chris Avellone seemed to prefer the "FEV explains everything" theory of mutation. He suggests that when the Glow was hit by the Chinese warheads, the tanks holding the virus burst and the FEV was vaporized and shot into the air. It was then mutated by the radiation from the blast, and went on to help radiation create the various mutant animals we know and love as well as ghouls. The problem with this theory is that first off it's a bit redundant since Fallout radiation is already fully capable of producing the mutations seen in the gameworld. Second, we know from the Lieutenant's mention of inoculation from mutant FEV that any airborne strain of FEV could not cause these mutations. If it did, why didn't any humans mutate from exposure to the airborne FEV? Furthermore, if radscorpions, geckos, molerats, deathclaws and other creepie-crawlies are all products of FEV, how can they breed as much as they do? Remember, FEV causes sterility. Avellone eventually admitted that he was wrong, and that most mutations in the Fallout world were caused by the ambient radiation.

A-D.:
Actually, the Midwest Ghouls relocated there after Necropolis was wiped out, which is canon. As for the DC Ghouls, well some would fit due to the subway system, so again it makes sense there.

You are thinking of the usper mutants in the Midwest, not the ghouls.

Also, the ghouls in Fallout 3 weren't people who hid in the subway system, Carol, one of the oldest ghouls in underworld, simply turned because she survived the war in a non-radiation proof bunker, and went outside shortly after the war, before the radiation went down.

Literally anyone who went outside in those first few years, or who stayed in high radiation areas, could turn into a ghoul, and nothing about that is specific to America.

SajuukKhar:

A-D.:
Also, yes all critters, Mirelurks included are a result of radiation mixing with the FEV which was released

Wrong, the only person who said that is Avellone, who later admitted he was wrong
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mutations_and_their_causes#Variants

First, Chris Avellone seemed to prefer the "FEV explains everything" theory of mutation. He suggests that when the Glow was hit by the Chinese warheads, the tanks holding the virus burst and the FEV was vaporized and shot into the air. It was then mutated by the radiation from the blast, and went on to help radiation create the various mutant animals we know and love as well as ghouls. The problem with this theory is that first off it's a bit redundant since Fallout radiation is already fully capable of producing the mutations seen in the gameworld. Second, we know from the Lieutenant's mention of inoculation from mutant FEV that any airborne strain of FEV could not cause these mutations. If it did, why didn't any humans mutate from exposure to the airborne FEV? Furthermore, if radscorpions, geckos, molerats, deathclaws and other creepie-crawlies are all products of FEV, how can they breed as much as they do? Remember, FEV causes sterility. Avellone eventually admitted that he was wrong, and that most mutations in the Fallout world were caused by the ambient radiation.

A-D.:
Actually, the Midwest Ghouls relocated there after Necropolis was wiped out, which is canon. As for the DC Ghouls, well some would fit due to the subway system, so again it makes sense there.

You are thinking of the usper mutants in the Midwest, not the ghouls.

Also, the ghouls in Fallout 3 weren't people who hid in the subway system, Carol, one of the oldest ghouls in underworld, simply turned because she survived the war in a non-radiation proof bunker, and went outside shortly after the war, before the radiation went down.

Literally anyone who went outside in those first few years, or who stayed in high radiation areas, could turn into a ghoul, and nothing about that is specific to America.

Firstly, nope the Ghouls also went east, although it is stated that they spread out in all directions, but their source was Bakersfield. Fallout 3 at best retcons it to explain why they are in DC, same as they retconned the Enclave and the BoS being there, although the BoS at least had a more valid reasoning since they are glorified scavengers. F3 retcons quite alot in fact, i.e. supermutants.

Secondly, no, FEV has a effect on the mutation, although it does not directly cause it, it is one of the effects. Supermutants were dipped in pure FEV, unaffected by radiation. The FEV that got blasted into the air was similarly changed by the radiation though, hence not causing tons of supermutants. The biggest change that FEV had was that it made humans who had been subjected to the outside immune to the effects of the pure FEV. Thats why the Master needed pure humans to make Supermutants, thats also why the Enclave used a modified FEV sample in their initial attempt to wipe the earth clean a plot that resurfaces in Fallout 3. So unless you want to declare all Fallouts non-canon, FEV has a effect and has a direct cause.

The initial idea for "FEV explains everything" was simply to explain how animals mutated as rapidly, rather than simply going through the general stages of evolution. Radiation has a effect, but its not exactly instant. Ghouls are the best example, they are still human essentially, so while the radiation may have turned them into ghouls initially, the FEV kept them alive and facilitated their long lifespans and the whole being healed by radiation thing. Fallout is based on 50s Science Fiction, but it still needs a explanation beyond "radiation" as otherwise you have the problem of explaining why people arent all turning to ghouls eventually, or in general mutating into something else.

A-D.:
Firstly, nope the Ghouls also went east, although it is stated that they spread out in all directions, but their source was Bakersfield. Fallout 3 at best retcons it to explain why they are in DC, same as they retconned the Enclave and the BoS being there, although the BoS at least had a more valid reasoning since they are glorified scavengers. F3 retcons quite alot in fact, i.e. supermutants.

Wrong, the Bakersfield Ghouls were said to have moved to The Gecko, Dayglow, and Broken Hills.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Necropolis
"The scattered survivors of Necropolis led the Great Migration across the wastes, leading to the founding of towns such as Gecko, Dayglow and Broken Hills. "

No mention of them going east with the super mutants is made in any Fallout game, nor even in the Fallout Tactics intro, what you are saying is 100% made up.

Secondly, Fallout 3 retconed nothing about the ghouls, The BoS, or The Enclave, and the super mutant "retcon" is only based on it being a different strain, its not even a retcon, just an expansion of past lore.

A-D.:
Secondly, no, FEV has a effect on the mutation, although it does not directly cause it, it is one of the effects. Supermutants were dipped in pure FEV, unaffected by radiation. The FEV that got blasted into the air was similarly changed by the radiation though, hence not causing tons of supermutants. The biggest change that FEV had was that it made humans who had been subjected to the outside immune to the effects of the pure FEV. Thats why the Master needed pure humans to make Supermutants, thats also why the Enclave used a modified FEV sample in their initial attempt to wipe the earth clean a plot that resurfaces in Fallout 3. So unless you want to declare all Fallouts non-canon, FEV has a effect and has a direct cause.

Wrong again, as both The Master, and Harold, had been out in the wastes for years, and been exposed to both radiation and FEV, and BOTH were effected by the FEV in Mariposa.

Exposure to FEV in the air does not make one immune to vat based FEV, it only makes one less likely to come out as a smart super mutant. Indeed, The Master made many super mutants with exposed humans before he created his theory that he needed pure humans for it to work better.

Furthermore, the modified FEV used by The Enclave in both Fallout 2 and 3 wasn't used because of being exposed to airborn FEV made people immune to anything, that is pure hogwash. They used the FEV because it was a virus they already had, and because it could be easily modified to attack certain genetic markers, aka mutant ones, which included both FEV related, and non FEV related mutations, and becuaase exposure to RADIATION messed up normal FEV.

A-D.:
The initial idea for "FEV explains everything" was simply to explain how animals mutated as rapidly, rather than simply going through the general stages of evolution. Radiation has a effect, but its not exactly instant. Ghouls are the best example, they are still human essentially, so while the radiation may have turned them into ghouls initially, the FEV kept them alive and facilitated their long lifespans and the whole being healed by radiation thing. Fallout is based on 50s Science Fiction, but it still needs a explanation beyond "radiation" as otherwise you have the problem of explaining why people arent all turning to ghouls eventually, or in general mutating into something else.

Except New Vegas proves that theory entirely wrong, in both the base game, in Camp Searchlight, and in both the NCR and Legion nuked areas at the end of Lonesome Road we see instantaneous ghoulification.

There has never been a point in Fallout lore that said ghoulification took a long time, in fact, it has always been described as taking several years, at most, to less then a day.

FEV never was used to explain them living long enough to become ghouls, as ghoulification NEVER took that long to begin with, in any Fallout game.

As for why not everyone turns
A. There is a genetic X factor.
B. Most people don't stay in high radiation areas long enough to be effected.
C. The radiation levels of the world have gone down to the point of normal, present-day, background radiation, thus meaning one can go outside and not mutate like the ghouls, who were people who went outside directly after the war, did.

SajuukKhar:

Wrong, the Bakersfield Ghouls were said to have moved to The Gecko, Dayglow, and Broken Hills.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Necropolis
"The scattered survivors of Necropolis led the Great Migration across the wastes, leading to the founding of towns such as Gecko, Dayglow and Broken Hills. "

No mention of them going east with the super mutants is made in any Fallout game, nor even in the Fallout Tactics intro, what you are saying is 100% made up.

Secondly, Fallout 3 retconed nothing about the ghouls, The BoS, or The Enclave, and the super mutant "retcon" is only based on it being a different strain, its not even a retcon, just an expansion of past lore.

Wrong again, as both The Master, and Harold, had been out in the wastes for years, and been exposed to both radiation and FEV, and BOTH were effected by the FEV in Mariposa.

Exposure to FEV in the air does not make one immune to vat based FEV, it only makes one less likely to come out as a smart super mutant. Indeed, The Master made many super mutants with exposed humans before he created his theory that he needed pure humans for it to work better.

Furthermore, the modified FEV used by The Enclave in both Fallout 2 and 3 wasn't used because of being exposed to airborn FEV made people immune to anything, that is pure hogwash. They used the FEV because it was a virus they already had, and because it could be easily modified to attack certain genetic markers, aka mutant ones, which included both FEV related, and non FEV related mutations, and becuaase exposure to RADIATION messed up normal FEV.

Except New Vegas proves that theory entirely wrong, in both the base game, in Camp Searchlight, and in both the NCR and Legion nuked areas at the end of Lonesome Road we see instantaneous ghoulification.

There has never been a point in Fallout lore that said ghoulification took a long time, in fact, it has always been described as taking several years, at most, to less then a day.

FEV never was used to explain them living long enough to become ghouls, as ghoulification NEVER took that long to begin with, in any Fallout game.

As for why not everyone turns
A. There is a genetic X factor.
B. Most people don't stay in high radiation areas long enough to be effected.
C. The radiation levels of the world have gone down to the point of normal, present-day, background radiation, thus meaning one can go outside and not mutate like the ghouls, who were people who went outside directly after the war, did.

Are you trying to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian now? The Ghouls moved away, founding towns such as the ones you mentioned. It does not state that they ONLY created those towns or moved to those towns. The statement means they built towns, the ones named are examples. Also i never stated or implied they followed the Supermutants, in fact they should have no reason to do so, or more likely would resist traveling with them given that they basicly overran their city.

Also yes Fallout 3 retcons the shit out of the lore. Here's what Fallout 1 says about ghoulification. A sudden, massive burst of radiation. Not fallout, not ambient radiation, not residue. It needs a nuke going off, very much near you, without you dying instantly from either heat or the pressure-wave that would happen before the radiation was even a thing. In short you would be vaporized instantly, there is no mutation. Thats what the Vault in Bakersfield did, the door was open just enough to block both heat and pressure but allow the radiation through, that sudden burst of radiation from a bomb going off basicly right next to them so to speak turned them into Ghouls, that being necrotic humans. The FEV which mixed with the radiation later added the feature about being essentially ageless and radiation healing them. Because no matter which way you slice it, even if you base everything on "50s Science", radiation does not work that way and the suspension of disbelief goes only so far, meaning to ANYONE they would have died within days of radiation poisoning if nothing was there to stop this from happening.

Let me recap for a second. One, sudden, massive burst of radiation. Not "alot of radiation outside", not "the geiger counter is ticking higher". One burst is whats needed, it basicly has to be instant or it wouldnt work anyway, otherwise everyone outside would be a Ghoul, which is NOT the case. Plus FEV in a civilian installation..a military project, in a civilian installation, if that aint a retcon then i dont know what is.

But moving on. You are wrong again, The Master was originally from Vault 8. A Control Vault that opened 10 years after the bombs dropped. Harold came from Vault 29. They were as pure as it gets considering, the FEV has a timelimit on when it works obviously, a half-life-time so to speak. At least it would be my guess that eventually it simply becomes utterly useless, basic entropic decay, it just breaks down. However to most of the people outside, FEV had an effect, albeit a minor and subtle one, they were already infected with it, which in fallout 2 is a plotpoint, for the mainplot. That's why they abducted Vault 13 People and your Tribe, Vault Dwellers were not infected with it, where as your tribe was, that is why they experimented on them to find a FEV version which killed everyone, pure and impure, rather than mutating them in any way.

FEV therefore has to play a specific role for this to be valid. You can not blame everything on simple radiation. FEV changed the genetic code of people living on the surface, ever since the bombs dropped, it doesnt matter whether it changes just one gene, that is enough. People were much more resistant to FEV exposure, regardless whether they were dipped or not, where as clean humans did not have the innate resistance to it, hence could actually mutate properly so to speak. The Enclave used it because they could, yes, but why not just make a version which kills people? Why did they need testsubjects? Because they didnt know whether it would work on people who had already been exposed to FEV, even if its a changed form of it. In fact if you go back to the Oil Rig sometime and talk with the scientist, and listen to the text-bubbles, it wasnt their first and only test. They went through several variants until they had one which reliably killed both pure and impure humans, as well as every other creature which had been exposed to radiation and FEV from the atmosphere, even if the exposure is tiny, it counts.

Camp Searchlight has too little information as to how it was done, all you see is the aftermath. However the NCR/Legion at the end of lonesome road? They had just gotten a nuke dropped on them. One sudden massive burst of radiation. That is the only thing so far that has been constant with ghouls and i doubt thats going to change, because if you can rewrite the rules about everything, it doesnt really work for long. You even point out a "genetic factor", what do you think FEV is? It rewrites your genetic code, it doesnt just make you big, green and dumb. FEV aint steroids, FEV is the super-soldier serum that came from research on a immunization cure against basicly everything.

Oh, well hello everybody.

I'm not going to get into the arguments concerning what aspects of the Fallout mythology could or would exist outside of America because I'm not as well versed in the canon as you guys are.

But thematically, I don't see why it couldn't work. The cultural and aesthetic values of 1950's America were primarily influenced by the philosophy of the Cold War, the propagandised idolation of American capitalism as the righteous crusaders in what many perceived to be the last great conflict in human history, he idea that if we beat the commies, if we prove once and for all the inherent goodness of capitalism, we can finally see a world that has given up warfare for good. And given the geopolitical power held by the USA and the USSR, much of the rest of the world fell in step with the trends that they set. Presuming that the Fallout universe is one where the binary (or perhaps trinary, with the rise of China) superpower structure lasted decades beyond it did in our world, it seems entirely possible to me that Europe could provide an interesting context for an extrapolation of that mythology.

Post-war Britain was a fascinating place but it strikes me that Berlin would be a killer setting for a game in this universe. It wouldn't be quite the same as the Fallout we know and love, but a post-apocalyptic city cordoned into two (or perhaps, depending on how they want to play it, split off into smaller parts), with the contrasting designs and propaganda of era-appropriate communism and capitalism would be pretty fantastic. I wouldn't call it Fallout 4, but I think it could really enrich the universe.

That being said, the Fallout Wiki outlines the premise of the Resource Wars game that the creators wanted to make as a Battlefield style multiplayer game set during a war between the Middle East and Britain, so who knows what we'll see?

dxanderz:
Oh, well hello everybody.

I'm not going to get into the arguments concerning what aspects of the Fallout mythology could or would exist outside of America because I'm not as well versed in the canon as you guys are.

But thematically, I don't see why it couldn't work. The cultural and aesthetic values of 1950's America were primarily influenced by the philosophy of the Cold War, the propagandised idolation of American capitalism as the righteous crusaders in what many perceived to be the last great conflict in human history, he idea that if we beat the commies, if we prove once and for all the inherent goodness of capitalism, we can finally see a world that has given up warfare for good. And given the geopolitical power held by the USA and the USSR, much of the rest of the world fell in step with the trends that they set. Presuming that the Fallout universe is one where the binary (or perhaps trinary, with the rise of China) superpower structure lasted decades beyond it did in our world, it seems entirely possible to me that Europe could provide an interesting context for an extrapolation of that mythology.

Post-war Britain was a fascinating place but it strikes me that Berlin would be a killer setting for a game in this universe. It wouldn't be quite the same as the Fallout we know and love, but a post-apocalyptic city cordoned into two (or perhaps, depending on how they want to play it, split off into smaller parts), with the contrasting designs and propaganda of era-appropriate communism and capitalism would be pretty fantastic. I wouldn't call it Fallout 4, but I think it could really enrich the universe.

That being said, the Fallout Wiki outlines the premise of the Resource Wars game that the creators wanted to make as a Battlefield style multiplayer game set during a war between the Middle East and Britain, so who knows what we'll see?

Fantastic first post there, and a really fascinating idea. I could really see Fallout in Berlin, where Berlin is the continent's great surviving walled fortress (maybe the Berlin wall has wrapped around the city now). Divided down the centre, of course, with each side still clinging to near irrelevant ideologies in the post-apocalyptic world.

Azahul:

Fantastic first post there, and a really fascinating idea. I could really see Fallout in Berlin, where Berlin is the continent's great surviving walled fortress (maybe the Berlin wall has wrapped around the city now). Divided down the centre, of course, with each side still clinging to near irrelevant ideologies in the post-apocalyptic world.

Well thank you. I just think the Stalinist-era propaganda was just so vivid and unique that it deserves a place alongside that view of nostalgic 1950's America.

I think the idea of Berlin as an almost medieval, walled bastion city as the rest of the world collapses around them is pretty brilliant and it makes me wonder if the setting wouldn't be better off being further fractured than into just two sides. There's a superb old Orson Welles film called "The Third Man" about Berlin immediately after WWII, portraying it as a city in utter disarray, at the mercy of black market criminals and split up into four zones occupied by each of the Allied powers, each scrambling to take advantage of the chaos in the situation. I wonder what a vision of Berlin that had remained split among England, America, France, and the USSR would look like, but even if that's not the approach they took, that vision of Berlin strikes me as a great potential inspiration.

Edit: Oh, and if Berlin had remained militarized, and if the former Allies had spent decades using Berlin as their individual footholds in the heart of Europe as they become increasingly hostile to each other, then you might just have a rationale as to the Americans having a Fallout bunker built there. You could still have plenty of the old Fallout flavor, by making the American zone essentially a US-occupied city, but it would also offer the opportunity to really offer an expanded vision of the rest of the world.

undeadsuitor:

Paradoxrifts:
I can live the rest of my life without seeing the release of Fallout : Down Under.

it would be nothing but massive radscorpions

Giant mutated winged spiderpions.

dxanderz:

Edit: Oh, and if Berlin had remained militarized, and if the former Allies had spent decades using Berlin as their individual footholds in the heart of Europe as they become increasingly hostile to each other, then you might just have a rationale as to the Americans having a Fallout bunker built there. You could still have plenty of the old Fallout flavor, by making the American zone essentially a US-occupied city, but it would also offer the opportunity to really offer an expanded vision of the rest of the world.

That particular idea was one that made me think a Fallout game set in China would be plausible. US troops being in the area could allow for a lot of standard Fallout flavour.

Paradoxrifts:

undeadsuitor:

Paradoxrifts:
I can live the rest of my life without seeing the release of Fallout : Down Under.

it would be nothing but massive radscorpions

Giant mutated winged spiderpions.

image

AHHHHHHHHHHH!

There are not enough guns in the world!

A-D.:

Camp Searchlight has too little information as to how it was done, all you see is the aftermath.

Cop-out.

In the firestation you see the radioactive material with a dead legionnaire with the plans from Vulpes to create a dirty bomb.

read all about it

SourMilk:

A-D.:

Camp Searchlight has too little information as to how it was done, all you see is the aftermath.

Cop-out.

In the firestation you see the radioactive material with a dead legionnaire with the plans from Vulpes to create a dirty bomb.

read all about it

How is that a cop-out? I know that it was a dirty bomb, the question remains whether it was just radiation over time or the instant-burst kind. That is not explained, plus in the same questline, if you drop radioactive barrels into the legion camp, they die rather than become ghouls. Also near the testing zone with the shack is a woman, who is dead, who wanted to become a ghoul and she died rather than become a ghoul. Which means again..it has to be instant or it wont work, radiation over time just kills you, it doesnt turn you into a ghoul.

But sure, claim its a cop-out when nothing in New Vegas actually hints at it that ghouls are created simply by radiation, but rather that it remains as is, i.e. you need a fuckton of radiation all at once.

00slash00:

Yeah, I don't know what role the rest of the world had in things. I would imagine they're be involved some way. I know the US annexed Canada so when China Nuked the US, they would have Nuked Canada as well. I don't recall hearing about Europe though. It definitely seems like its a part of the story worth exploring, China just seems like the next logical step, since they were they other key player in the war.

I'm not exactly a master of Fallout lore. Most of what I know I learned from playing Fallout 1 and 2, and that was about a decade ago. But to my knowledge, there were Chinese spies in D.C. and China also snuck Chinese weaponry in to America in order to equip communists and Chinese sleeper agents within the country

Well, that makes sense. Thx for the info. ;)

Crossing my fingers for Fallout 4.

As for the fight over the setting, either New York City, Boston, or Seattle would be great places for them to explore.

New York City would be a labyrinth of rubble and tunnels, likely with small enclaves taking up entire buildings/blocks.

Boston has the opportunity to have the contrast between old and new, with the colonial motifs and themes of the city put alongside MIT superscience.

Seattle has geographical complexity and the potential for a "city retaken by the forest" with giant, mutated flora covering everything thanks to the heavy rains of the pacific northwest, almost like a 1950s Ankor Wat with cement and concrete instead of stone.

Paradoxrifts:

undeadsuitor:

Paradoxrifts:
I can live the rest of my life without seeing the release of Fallout : Down Under.

it would be nothing but massive radscorpions

Giant mutated winged spiderpions.

Oh dear god! What would those turn into after they get hit with radiation!?!

A-D.:

-Are you trying to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian now?

-The Ghouls moved away, founding towns such as the ones you mentioned....

-Also yes Fallout 3 retcons the shit out of the lore. Here's what Fallout 1 says about ghoulification. A sudden, massive burst of radiation.

-The FEV which mixed with the radiation later added the feature about being essentially ageless and radiation healing them.

-Let me recap for a second. One, sudden, massive burst of radiation....

-But moving on. You are wrong again, The Master was originally from Vault 8. A Control Vault that opened 10 years after the bombs dropped....

-FEV therefore has to play a specific role for this to be valid....

-Camp Searchlight has too little information as to how it was done, all you see is the aftermath....

-Are you?

-And again, nothing stated in any Fallout game ever says or implies that the ghouls in the Midwest were from Bakersfield, they are ghouls who were created in that area the same way all other ghouls are.

-You are aware that nuclear Fallout IS radiation right? a high burst of radiation = a high burst of nuclear Fallout. Do you even understand the concepts you are talking about?

-FEV added nothing to making ghouls live long, ghouls live long due to a mutation caused by the radiation that causes certain cells to rapidly regenerate. As to what stopped them from dieing, it was the genetic x factor.

-and again, one can get that by stepping into a highly irradiated area, while the rest of the world s radiation levels have gone back to normal. and AGAIN, not everyone is a ghoul because of the genetic X factor
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ghoul
"Exposure to radiation typically results in sickness followed by death for the average human being; however, the genetic x-factor that will lead to mutation into a ghoul upon exposure, instead of the typical deadly outcome, remains unknown. "

-And you are wrong AGAIN, because anyone who goes outside is considered a mutant, the Lyons BoS are considered impure themselves for having spent so much time outside in the C.W., whereas the rest of the BoS in Lost Hills are pure because they stay inside all thge time. Being born in a vault does not make one immune to the radiation of the world. Both Harold and the Master had spent many years outside, and had stopped being pure humans long before they touched the FEV.

And no FEV does not decay, ever.

-You can when the devs have said it is just radiation. Also, the Enclave
A. DID just make a version that kills people
B. They needed test subjects so they could code the FEV to attack the "normal" mutant population
C. They did not do tests because they didn't think it would work since people where exposed to the airbone FEV, they did it to, as pointed out above, find the normal mutant genes most post-war people have, so they could tailor the FE to attack them.

-Camp Searchlight has notes o nthe dead Legion bodies that explain how it was done. And FEV is not the genetic X factor as the people in the bakersfield Vault were never exposed to FEV, yet also turned into ghouls, nor where most people in the CW exposed to FEV, and still turned into ghouls, and nor where most people in the midwest exposed to FEV, yet still turned into ghouls. FEV is NOT the X factor, ifit was, everyone would have become a ghoul.

-In short., you are majorly confused about pretty much every major plot point from Fallout 1-New Vegas, and are saying that the devs are wrong about their own game in the process.

piinyouri:

Akichi Daikashima:
A next-gen Fallout title?

OH GOD PLEASE YES.

God knows that the graphics in the recent Fallout games are pretty low-end, a touch up would be nice, or alternatively, a huge expansion of the world, using the same graphics, but using the remaining processor power to deepen the game.

Or better than all that, a new engine to fix the root of all the problems.

They do have the id Tech 5, after all.

SajuukKhar:

Therumancer:
My basic problem comes down to this, everyone wants to see the place where they happen to live be shown to have survived so they can put themselves and their mindset more directly into such a scenario. The problem with this is
that if you start developing one other area it becomes easier to justify doing another, and then after a while your pretty much looking at a non-apocalypse because it seems like people pretty much survived and flourished everywhere.

But Fallout isn't about the apocalypse, its about humanity rebuilding after it.

It shouldn't be an apocalypse, it should be a post-apocalypse.

The point being that there should be nobody left in most of those places due to the apocalypse to do any rebuilding. The idea being that any survivors scrabbling from the wreckage is supposed to be amazing in of itself, you start expanding to the rest of the world in reality (as opposed to insane people perhaps claiming they were there) and then you wind up with a situation where it couldn't have been all that much of an apocalypse, even if we're after it. Europe, Asia, etc... they should all be glass pretty much.

Besides, as I pointed out before, if Europe actually survived groups with high technology like The Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel would have had contact with them, and that would have changed the entire scenario and how things played out, given that these groups are operating entirely based on this being all that is left of the entire planet pretty much.... to do otherwise invokes the "RIFTS" factor I mentioned before, where their central remaining hotbed of human civilization was supposed to be ruin largely by geniuses with super science at their fingertips and tons of psychics and such in their military (although they hate magic). You move on and them come across as being idiots because nobody with their level of sophistication would have missed all these other civilizations out there, and they would not have developed the same way if they weren't the relative isolation, and surrounded by overwhelmingly hostile forces, the way the concept demanded.

Don't get me wrong, I have no real problem with a Post-apocalyptic Europe situation, but not in Fallout. A separate universe should be created for that, it's own game serious, standing on it's own. Sort of like how "Metro" has Russia as the big survivors (in their transit system). "Hellgate: London" was (or I guess I should say 'is' given it's relaunch as FTP) also a European post apocalyptic game, albeit with a supernatural as opposed to technological basis.

Of course what I think likely does not matter, Bethesda is going to do whatever they want and what they think they can make money at, the integrity of the product probably doesn't even fit into their thinking, since they figure once they hammer it into the ground it won't matter given all their piles of money made along the way. I mean after all, even if I don't think it fits, I'll likely play a European Fallout, I'll just insist that even if the game itself is good, it shouldn't have been given a "Fallout" name, and when the serious truly falls apart conceptually I'll be able to pretty much point a finger at that as being the point where Bethesda jumped the shark within it's own continuity.

SajuukKhar:

-You are aware that nuclear Fallout IS radiation right? a high burst of radiation = a high burst of nuclear Fallout. Do you even understand the concepts you are talking about?

Well clearly you don't understand the concepts you talking about if you think Nuclear Fallout and Nuclear Radiation are one and the same.

SajuukKhar:

-Are you?

-And again, nothing stated in any Fallout game ever says or implies that the ghouls in the Midwest were from Bakersfield, they are ghouls who were created in that area the same way all other ghouls are.

-You are aware that nuclear Fallout IS radiation right? a high burst of radiation = a high burst of nuclear Fallout. Do you even understand the concepts you are talking about?

-FEV added nothing to making ghouls live long, ghouls live long due to a mutation caused by the radiation that causes certain cells to rapidly regenerate. As to what stopped them from dieing, it was the genetic x factor.

-and again, one can get that by stepping into a highly irradiated area, while the rest of the world s radiation levels have gone back to normal. and AGAIN, not everyone is a ghoul because of the genetic X factor
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ghoul
"Exposure to radiation typically results in sickness followed by death for the average human being; however, the genetic x-factor that will lead to mutation into a ghoul upon exposure, instead of the typical deadly outcome, remains unknown. "

-And you are wrong AGAIN, because anyone who goes outside is considered a mutant, the Lyons BoS are considered impure themselves for having spent so much time outside in the C.W., whereas the rest of the BoS in Lost Hills are pure because they stay inside all thge time. Being born in a vault does not make one immune to the radiation of the world. Both Harold and the Master had spent many years outside, and had stopped being pure humans long before they touched the FEV.

And no FEV does not decay, ever.

-You can when the devs have said it is just radiation. Also, the Enclave
A. DID just make a version that kills people
B. They needed test subjects so they could code the FEV to attack the "normal" mutant population
C. They did not do tests because they didn't think it would work since people where exposed to the airbone FEV, they did it to, as pointed out above, find the normal mutant genes most post-war people have, so they could tailor the FE to attack them.

-Camp Searchlight has notes o nthe dead Legion bodies that explain how it was done. And FEV is not the genetic X factor as the people in the bakersfield Vault were never exposed to FEV, yet also turned into ghouls, nor where most people in the CW exposed to FEV, and still turned into ghouls, and nor where most people in the midwest exposed to FEV, yet still turned into ghouls. FEV is NOT the X factor, ifit was, everyone would have become a ghoul.

-In short., you are majorly confused about pretty much every major plot point from Fallout 1-New Vegas, and are saying that the devs are wrong about their own game in the process.

Lets go over this one more time.

1: It does not state that anywhere, but logic dictates that the bulk to any ghoul population comes from very specific areas. Bakersfield would be one such a place. The creation of ghouls is very specific, and by specific i mean that it wouldnt happen that often by random chance. Consider for a second that the only source of Ghouls in the entire world of Fallout 1 is Bakersfield. We know for certain that people have survived by using the vaults and of course other self-built nuclear shelters. Bakersfield had a Vault which did NOT close completely, the door mechanism was faulty by design to simulate what would happen if humans were subjected to massive amounts of radiation all at once, like say...a space ship going too close to a star or sun for example. Ghouls are the result.

2: No it is not one and the same, any residual radiation is essentially "radiation over time". It doesnt matter how fast it builds up, it is still less than required for the instant ghoulification to occur, otherwise there would be massive amounts of ghouls, essentially the only humans left would be from vaults because the world was literally nuked to hell and back and they did not spend a couple hundred years in bunkers and vaults. Ghouls come from a spike in radiation, by that i mean to use fallout terms 1.000.000 rads in a millisecond (number made up), it is not radiation per second, it is not a 1000 rad threshold, it is literally a dosage that is enough to kill you 20 times over, in the blink of an eye.

3: FEV IS genetic mutation. FEV is the result of the Pan-Immunity Virion Project, which was made to find a cure or immunisation from any and all kinds of chemical and biological weapons prior to the great war. FEV essentially mutates you, very quickly in fact. The FEV which got spread around with the radiation after the bombs dropped is part of what makes ghouls possible. If we go by basic science, alot of radiation kills you, so lets assume it doesnt, it still would not make it possible to allow ghouls to live as long as they do, nor be healed by radiation. And that is not even going into glowing ones. Thats where FEV comes in, it mutates whatever it touches, but since only supermutants were actually subjected to pure FEV, it didnt have the same effect on the rest of the world, or the population. Radiation causes the mutation in the first place, FEV stabilizes it or there would be no Ghouls, or anything we already know at this point, at the very least they would be vastly different.

4: What is the highest radiated area you know from the games? The Glow? Vault 87? Compared to post-war radiation levels, that is low. Consider that by comparison, the Fallout Universe had ten times the amount of nukes we have, their lensman arms race never stopped, in fact it became worse. And on a single day, all of them were used, not just a few, all of them. Our current arsenal of nuclear weapons would be enough to turn our world uninhabitable already, so Fallout already uses some creative license there, cause technically it shouldnt be possible for anyone to be alive, or at least not outside. But consider that even 80 years after the war, the radiation in the Glow was still strong enough to kill you, rapidly. It didnt turn you into a ghoul or something, it just kills you.

5: Purity is a subject of debate, technically speaking most of the Enclave wasnt pure then either, the difference being on a biological level really. I mean you can be a human still, but be "mutated". The term pure and impure is simply whether the genome is still mostly pre-war or already post-war. Except for a very few Vaults, no human has a pre-war genome at this point, they have all mutated, either from necessity, surroundings, radiation or basicly anything. It is however Fact that FEV did mix with the radioactive fallout and became part of it, which means you can not blame any mutation solely on either radiation or FEV, except for the Supermutants, Floaters and Centaurs, which are essentially FEV-dipped. Also yes, FEV decays, everything decays. Entropy is a thing that exists and affects everything, which means eventually FEV would lose some of its properties, how long that is i dont know, but eventually it wouldnt even make you into a Supermutant anymore unless new FEV is produced, if all you have is the old pre-war stuff, its gonna lose its effects eventually.

6: As i pointed out, it cant be just radiation. That is simply false, unless they retcon that Radiation turns FEV off, it does not work that way. We can argue what caused a mutation, but FEV is part of that, the difference being how much was caused by it. Also, as i pointed out, they have done several test-runs, not all of which were effective. For Scientists who basicly should know how stuff works, given they are basicly the most advanced there are, it should not take them this long to figure out how to tune the FEV to kill people. Which means that something in impure humans made FEV less effective, if not ineffective as a weapon against them, hence why they had to spend as much time to try and find something that worked on everyone and everything.

7: If radiation causes everything, everyone would be a ghoul. I refer you to point 1,2 and 3. As well as another post i made before you quotes me. Its on page 5 as well.

8: If your version would be the Devs intent, then i have missed their massive retcon from 1 to 2, from 1 and 2 to 3 and from 3 to NV. Because i am going by what is shown in all 4 games. I aint pulling this out of my ass here. If the Devs say "X does Y" in one game, and then say "X does Z" in the next, its a retcon if they portray it as if "X does Z" was always the case. The lore is built over the games, but several parts are constant. Even if you quote me how Avellone was wrong somewhere, it doesnt mean squat when i am going by Fallout 1 to begin with. So if Fallout 1 is already incorrect, why is the rest correct? If the foundation is wrong, everything built upon it is wrong by default.

And you are trying to tell me Fallout 1 is wrong.

Sweet Jumping Jejus on a Pogo Stick,everyone calm their tits.
Stop arguing about theoretical Radiation and such nonsense,Fallout 4 is going to be awesome,you guys know it and I know it and my pc would burst into flames cause I only have Intel HD graphics...

Yay.
But seriously,everyone calm themselves and stop arguing about spiders and such...

Yeeeeeeeeees!

But also noooooooooo! I want another Obsidian-made one really. Yes their games are always near-broken on release, but it's better than Bethesda's trademark brand of blandness. Obsidian has CHARACTER at least.

Ok, so, ignoring all of the speculation (which I will be taking part in soon enough), isn't the idea that this may be the next installment in the Fallout series somewhat supported by the fact that Bethesda is declining to comment on it, since, were there no Fallout game in the making, it would only be reasonable to assume that they would deny the existence of a new game before December 11th, in order to avoid the angry cries of "Why didn't you tell us?"

Even if this isn't directly related to Fallout IV, or, whatever it may be called, it certainly seems to me like the people at Zenimax are sitting back and enjoying the possibly unexpected and unpaid for form of advertising.

They built a vault in Canada I'm pretty sure according to lore. Correct my if I'm wrong. I hope they stick with North America. Given that Canada was annexed by the U.S and given they're connected I think it's reasonable to say that many U.S wasteland features such as Muties, Deathclaws etc could exist. If it ain't broke don't fix it. I'd rather it left to the imagination what happened elsewhere. When you leave the U.S (as said Canada works) you leave on of the two worlds superpowers, its fascinating culture, propaganda and bizarre pre war government strategies (Vaults and the Enclave). China is the other possibility but colour me uninterested in China as a setting.

I for one am hoping we go to the American south for the next installment. For mainly 2 reasons

1. As far as I'm aware its never been touched upon in any of the lore, which is wired as the port of New Orleans was a huge asset for American trade at the time of fallout If I an wrong please let me know, I wanna see what happened to my home town in that universe.

2. Irradiated Alligators..... That is all

New morse code! Anyone gonna decode?

Angst McMagnum:
New morse code! Anyone gonna decode?

For what it's worth: CQ CQ CQ DE OZ PSE AS "Any station, any station, any station, from oscar zulu (station ID?), please await signal."

There's a message on the site now also:

zl qrne fvfgre. v'z urnqvat gb gur vafgvghgr. tbq xabjf jung unccrarq gb guvf cynpr abj. guvf byq onfgneq jvyy uryc hf. ur zhfg uryc hf --0321--

Substitution cipher, this looks like:

my dear sister. i'm heading to the institute. god knows what happened to this place now. this old bastard will help us. he must help us

Not sure about the 0321.

again the message changed. seems to have a new message everyday.

now it said

VGNR [CAP] - ***? - LET- GRZ XJG XRS FWZZR GOS UIEG SII GZVZI || GRZ SAW XRS SAZZ XJG DZVB GRZ XUJIZ

i cannot resolve this one...

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