Super Mario 3D World Excluded Online Co-Op to Imitate NES Games

Super Mario 3D World Excluded Online Co-Op to Imitate NES Games

Nintendo opted to keep co-op local in Super Mario 3D World because it wanted players in the same room playing "talking while they help each other."

While it does perhaps boast one of sillier titles in the series, Super Mario 3D World has, by-and-large, been well-received by critics and gamers alike. Granted, that's not too surprising seeing as Nintendo, if it knows nothing else, knows how to make a fun platformer. That being the case, some may have still been put off by the fact that 3D World features some prominent co-op while lacking any online functionality.

According to Nintendo however, its lack of online was, in fact, an important part of the company's vision for the game. "With [Super Mario 3D World] we really wanted to deliver an experience that you can share with family, friends, or your boyfriend or girlfriend in the same place like you did with the original NES," said producer Yoshiaki Koizumi. "We really want players to have fun in front of the TV, talking while they help each other out or get in each other's way."

It's a stance that in some ways we can respect. After all, there's no denying that the experience of playing with someone in the room with you is vastly different from playing with people secluded away in their own homes all around the world. That said, we're still left wondering if it might have been wiser for Nintendo to leave it a choice for gamers to make themselves. If nothing else, we can see a Mario game with online multiplayer being a bigger system seller than one that excludes online. The Wii U, in turn, could arguably still use every advantage it can find to boost its still not-the-best sales.

Source: Game Informer via Nintendo Life

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I completely understand where they are coming from, but limiting functionality for that reason just seems silly to me. I am all for games embracing their local multiplayer roots, but there's no reason local AND online multiplayer can't co-exist in the same game. Say what you will about split-screen limiting your no-scoping skillzzzzz, but Halo was always pretty good about blending the local and online experiences together.

Couldn't you just do both so the players can dictate how they want to play the game, not you?

And I find the game suffers because of it. Seriously what is with developers these days not being able understand that you can do both local and online multiplayer. From Nintendo they are being stubborn and wanting to continue local, despite the fact that online can be way more beneficial for a game like this. Meanwhile, other companies, looking at you EA, want only online multiplayer. As Fappy said, say what you want about Halo, but it showed that you can have local and online multiplayer just fine.

Then again, seeing as how the 3DS is region locked based on regions even for download play, I wouldn't be surprised if they were to only allow you to play with people on your region...
That actually scares me about Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros...

This sort of, "Why couldn't they do this as well?" attitude has brought me to the conclusion that at some point, we as gamers are going to have to make a choice, are we just looking for mass media entertainment? Or do we actually care about the creator's intention for their work?

If we really do care about things like creative vision, we will have to accept their work for what it is and not what we think it should be.

That's an unusual point they made there, and I personally always prefer local play, to the point that I never play coop games online (I've never liked playing cooperatively with strangers I can't see or here, I'd find it boring or just frustrating). I can however see a lot of people would like to play online, and I think this doesn't really help Nintendo's attempts at become a more modern and online developer.

Not that the exclusion of online would have made a difference, what with all the server trouble they were having, but maybe we can expect a patch later on.

I completely understand and respect this kind of dedication to old-school community and problem-solving, but that doesn't mean you should take away what could have been an amazing feature. Trust me, I don't need to be informed that there are TONS of troglodytes online who act like complete asshats because they've got the added benefit of anonymity, but at the end of the day, online multiplayer represents togetherness on a level that has NEVER been seen before. As such, I think if you truly want people to experience the joy of Mario, open up the floodgates and let people connect to each other the world over. Yes, some people will try to ruin it, but the positives will far outweigh the negatives.

Zigot66:
This sort of, "Why couldn't they do this as well?" attitude has brought me to the conclusion that at some point, we as gamers are going to have to make a choice, are we just looking for mass media entertainment? Or do we actually care about the creator's intention for their work?

If we really do care about things like creative vision, we will have to accept their work for what it is and not what we think it should be.

I think Mario is seen as such a mass-market, appeal-to-everyone game that people forget about Nintendo's creative vision, as you call it. In fact I think that people are very used to games pandering to them nowadays, and to see a game actually limit what you can do as part of it being, well, art, is very rare. Many people like the awkward combat of Dark Souls as it makes them play in a different way, as the artist imagined, and while I don't like Dark Souls I respect the fact that they didn't just want to make a game for everyone, they wanted to give it more... soul (hehe).

With something like multiplayer it's a bit more tricky though, I think the point many people are making is "yes, we see how you intended us to have fun together, in the same room, but that doesn't mean you have to stop us having fun with strangers too." It's a tricky one.

They probably excluded online play to avoid crashing their servers, crushing their store, and delaying it an unknown amount of time ON launch day.

(Bitter about Pokemon Bank)

This seems like an excuse as they've cut other things for lesser reasons, Princess Peach was excluded from games because they didn't want to animate the skirt.
They're just avoiding doing things online, keeping things in the same room, okay great what about if I want to play with my friend across the country? Who I can't see face to face.

Neronium:
And I find the game suffers because of it. Seriously what is with developers these days not being able understand that you can do both local and online multiplayer. From Nintendo they are being stubborn and wanting to continue local, despite the fact that online can be way more beneficial for a game like this. Meanwhile, other companies, looking at you EA, want only online multiplayer. As Fappy said, say what you want about Halo, but it showed that you can have local and online multiplayer just fine.

Then again, seeing as how the 3DS is region locked based on regions even for download play, I wouldn't be surprised if they were to only allow you to play with people on your region...
That actually scares me about Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros...

I have a love/hate relationship with Nintendo, I like that they have a stance on what they want their company to be about, on the other hand they shouldn't be outright telling people how to play their titles.

I like Nintendo the most out of the 3 major companies because it feels the least faceless but bloody hell they do some stupid shit, MH3U on the 3DS, a game with the greatest strength lying it's 4 man party hunt system.......no online play, though this could be more Crapcoms fault than Nintendo, but Nintendo should have pushed for this feature.

Interesting reasoning. In a way or two, it makes sense. I do understand the desire to have local co-op verses online co-op, especially if you don't know who's on the other end, and it seems that the majority of games these days that have co-op only support online, and not even LAN co-op.

That said, I also understand another reason for not having online co-op: it's cheaper and less of a headache. Now they don't have to worry about maintaining servers for the game, or deal with issues of connectivity.

I don't/can't respect it. Adding online play doesn't remove the ability to play locally. You can still get the complete "NES" experience if you want to. Or, if you choose live in the present, you can play multiplayer with friends across the world.

I can completely understand not including online play. It means time and money in programming and testing and servers, etc. There are plenty of practical reasons to not include online play. This is not one of them.

The developers of the Scott Pilgrim games said the same thing about that game. Just admit, it's too hard/too expensive/would take too long/etc etc etc. Especially with Nintendo, they've admitted in the past they don't have as much experience with online as the other companies. That's a valid reason.

Don't try to spin an obvious con as a pro.

On the plus side, thanks to the Wii U's appalling take up rate there's virtually no one online to play with anyway!

*Jokes, Jokes... Well sort of anyway*

This is why Nintendo is dying an embarrassing death. The refuse to keep with the times, and this just seems like some irrelevant, stubborn nostalgia-enforcement. Give players the option, they can still play in the same room. But the truth is, you know this, so what's really going on here? Stop with all your Face-Saving and be upfront.

Dark Knifer:
Couldn't you just do both so the players can dictate how they want to play the game, not you?

Nintendo, the company that said "no, shut up, you don't care about multiplayer?"

I doubt they'll let us choose how to play any time soon. They're too busy nannying us.

martyrdrebel27:
This is why Nintendo is dying an embarrassing death.

How big a stash of money are they sitting on?

Dying, indeed.

They chose not to shoehorn in online multiplayer; aren't there TONS of people here who bemoan companies putting online multiplayer into things? Why should Nintendo get shit over this? Furthermore, considering how tightly designed platformers have to be, when one split second of timing due to latency can royally screw up things, it makes SENSE for them to not put online in. Especially since Mario doesn't exactly need online in the first place.

What's wrong with Nintendo's online, other than no account system? And they have adapted to HD, as Wind Waker HD looks great.

Aiddon:
They chose not to shoehorn in multiplayer; aren't there TONS of people here who bemoan companies putting online multiplayer into things? Why should Nintendo get shit over this? Furthermore, considering how tightly designed platformers have to be, when one split second of timing due to latency can royally screw up things, it makes SENSE for them to not put online in. Especially since Mario doesn't exactly need online in the first place.

Do you understand what you just said, "they chose not to shoehorn in multiplayer." Except for you know, the game is designed around multiplayer and switching characters, and plays perfectly fine in multiplayer. The game was praised because it's the first 3D Mario game to include multiplayer. The reason why people are upset at an answer like this is because it's a stupid one, still not as stupid as the one Sakurai made about why they aren't doing a story mode in the new Smash Bros though. The game is perfectly designed for multiplayer, and adding an online to it wouldn't kill them. If they had said that maintaining the servers or something would be an issue, then yeah I can understand that, but saying it was to "imitate NES games" is just dancing around the issue.

Then again, Nintendo's current CEO did boldly once stated that we, as consumers, "do not want online games" so I guess one way say we don't is to not really offer it much at all in the first place.

What people mainly don't like is when multiplayer is shoehorned into a single player game, and 3D World is by no means a single player game. It can be, but it has an integrated multiplayer mode that I've played with my friends before, and then got pissed off because they lost all 65 of my lives I'd built up during the game. >.>

Is it safe to say Smash and MK8 will have online? I really hope so.

VG_Addict:
Is it safe to say Smash and MK8 will have online? I really hope so.

But the problem is, will they be playable? Mario Kart Wii was decent, and probably the only one that actually worked semi-well on the Wii out of all the games that could be played online for the Wii. Brawl on the other hand, that online connection and system was absolutely terrible and filled with lag and disconnections. If the Smash Bros for the Wii U is like that then Nintendo will get hammered because online infrastructure for consoles has been available for ages now, and when people say that "Nintendo is inexperienced", well you can get better if you actually try to see how multiplayer can be done. SEGA seems to know how just fine in their racing games, ask them for help I say.

Aiddon:
They chose not to shoehorn in multiplayer; aren't there TONS of people here who bemoan companies putting online multiplayer into things? Why should Nintendo get shit over this?

It'd be one thing if it was a game franchise relatively young done by a studio with an unproven track record, because then we'd actually have a reason to worry about allocating a multiplayer budget interfering with the quality of the single player.

But this is Nintendo. Making a motherfucking Mario game. We know they can make amazing levels. But not even that matters, because this would be an online feature like Mario Kart DS, where all the assets are there as much as Single Player, and all they needed to do is add the functionality of detecting someone's controller inputs from across the world.

Whatever happened to the system they promised would appeal hardcore gamers that were alienated and disillusioned by the Wii's casual focus?

Furthermore, considering how tightly designed platformers have to be, when one split second of timing due to latency can royally screw up things, it makes SENSE for them to not put online in. Especially since Mario doesn't exactly need online in the first place.

This is where I'd cite online modes in fighter games, but I honestly don't know how any of them turned out. So *shrugs* With the possible exception of this, there is zero rhyme, reason, or rationale behind Nintendo's line of thinking with this.

StewShearer:
According to Nintendo however, its lack of online was, in fact, an important part of the company's vision for the game. "With [Super Mario 3D World] we really wanted to deliver an experience that you can share with family, friends, or your boyfriend or girlfriend in the same place like you did with the original NES," said producer Yoshiaki Koizumi. "We really want players to have fun in front of the TV, talking while they help each other out or get in each other's way."

Zigot66:
This sort of, "Why couldn't they do this as well?" attitude has brought me to the conclusion that at some point, we as gamers are going to have to make a choice, are we just looking for mass media entertainment? Or do we actually care about the creator's intention for their work?

If we really do care about things like creative vision, we will have to accept their work for what it is and not what we think it should be.

It's not a result of terrible management with mentalities and business strategies stuck in late 80's nostalgia, it's artistic vision!

StewShearer:
It's a stance that in some ways we can respect.

An artistic vision we can respect! Except oh wait, I don't respect it.

Zachary Amaranth:

martyrdrebel27:
This is why Nintendo is dying an embarrassing death.

How big a stash of money are they sitting on?

Dying, indeed.

So are you completely unaware of the "edit post" button, or are you really that desperate to increase your post count?

Because nobody else will care if you get to 20,000 posts. And I say this therapeutically, of course.

Isn't that exactly the same thing they said about NSMBU not having online? I wonder how long they're going to keep using this as an excuse instead of just admitting that they wanted to get the game out in time for the holidays/didn't want to spend more money on the game/don't know how to make online modes for non-Mario Kart games.

uhhhhh

yeah hey online mario sounds great

have you ever tried to play an online cooperative platformer where the players all have collision detection with each other's characters and the barest hint of lag occurs

doesn't really work that well then doesn't it

guess it might in your magical dreamland where that kind of thing doesn't cause everybody to die within seconds

even before they get the chance to do that on purpose

weirdguy:

have you ever tried to play an online cooperative platformer where the players all have collision detection with each other's characters and the barest hint of lag occurs

Nevermind, turns out I was wrong about Legends and Origins having online multiplayer like I thought it did.

This attitude is exactly why the Wii U is failing in the West. Its too bad, I tried this game out at my friends house and it's a ton of fun, but I'd never buy a Nintendo console because this is the third generation since online really became a thing and they have yet to figure it out.

If I could play Halo 3 with a friend on the couch and our friend across the country at the same time (SIX freaking years ago), there is no reason we shouldn't be able to do the same thing with Mario in 2014 :/

Pfft, you can have local and online co-op in the same game. Even some games have local and online co-op, which you can do both simultaneously!

Grenge Di Origin:

So are you completely unaware of the "edit post" button, or are you really that desperate to increase your post count?

Because nobody else will care if you get to 20,000 posts. And I say this therapeutically, of course.

Edited posts don't notify the people whose quotes you add. This causes a bunch of people to complain if they notice. People will even accuse you of trying to slip something through.

Honestly, though, if the only reason you're quoting me is to tell me nobody cares about my post count, what's the point? If nobody cares, then who cares?

st0pnsw0p:
Isn't that exactly the same thing they said about NSMBU not having online? I wonder how long they're going to keep using this as an excuse instead of just admitting that they wanted to get the game out in time for the holidays/didn't want to spend more money on the game/don't know how to make online modes for non-Mario Kart games.

/still don't want to add online because they have this thing against it.

But this time, it's different. They're not backwards, they're OLD SCHOOL!

Man these guys are fucking stupid. I'm all for couch co-op but let me tell you a secret, Nintendo. I would probably buy one or your systems and a few of your games if you'd get with the times and add some online functionality.

Zachary Amaranth:

Grenge Di Origin:

So are you completely unaware of the "edit post" button, or are you really that desperate to increase your post count?

Because nobody else will care if you get to 20,000 posts. And I say this therapeutically, of course.

Edited posts don't notify the people whose quotes you add. This causes a bunch of people to complain if they notice. People will even accuse you of trying to slip something through.

Doesn't change the fact that you double-posted. Next time, read all the posts before hitting the "post" button.
It's not a freaking race.

Grenge Di Origin:

Doesn't change the fact that you double-posted.

Now you're changing your story. Note I nowhere claimed I didn't double post.

incidentally, I had read all the posts as of the time the page had loaded. You may notice prior to the last post I quoted, there had been no replies for over an hour.

 

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