Updated: Microsoft Currently Trying to Track and Identify Xbox One Info Leaker

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Strazdas:
The free market advocated in politics and free market in economical sense are different beats. Free market in economical sense is sometimes defined as perfect competition, as used in this link. It is the opposite of monopoly and while granted is as extreme as its opposite and is almost impossible in real world situation (due to noone having ALL information), this is something that benefits society. In fact, there are laws encouraging it while there are laws discouraging monopolies.
I am not confusing this with communism and i am well aware of what communism is. I disagree about market stagnating, as we saw this does not happen in almost perfect competition food market for example.

I see. I was using the literal economic free market definition and the regulated free market political definition.

Monopoly is when one has exclusive rights to something. A service monopoly is when only one company provides the service, but monopolies also exist for information - for example copyright. Sometimes monopoly is held up by law (as in copyright case) and sometimes naturally by high entry costs (for example internet provider monopolies). You use monopoly in only one narrow sense of the word which makes you confused when i use it in broader sense.

Yes I was disregarding natural monopolies as they are not the companies' fault. I would not consider copyright a monopoly however simply because it does not ensure that no other company could make a similar product. It is simply akin to the security the company hires to protect their physical assets. Is that a monopoly because they do not allow their competitors to have free run of their facility?

Yes, there are such teams in reality. As was evident last week on the escapists when the public learns about such teams however most cry out for judging them on same standart as other people - to make them accountable for their crimes. and while the government can and does break its own laws it does not mean something like James Bond would be able to go around and continue to be a chronic alcoholic (the amount of alcohol he consumes if we go by the movies would actually kill him from intoxication).

I must have missed that story. I always laugh when people say they need to be judged like everyone else. Their job is to kill people so how in the hell can you judge them like other people?

I believe that lieing is one of the worst thing a human can do in a relationship. The lieing part is also the larger part of the problem with people getting mad about secret lovers. I think living in a world where we would have to say truth to others would be a strange experience, but better as a whole. Imagine not having to worry that someone just lied to you? It would also allow for fair criticism when it is deserved (since your not lieing) which would be a thing to ponder about at least to intelligent people.
I dont know why do you keep around friends that you need to lie to keep, but that is your choice of course.

You never tell a "little white lie"? Sometimes the truth is detrimental to the situation.

Sarge034:

Yes I was disregarding natural monopolies as they are not the companies' fault. I would not consider copyright a monopoly however simply because it does not ensure that no other company could make a similar product. It is simply akin to the security the company hires to protect their physical assets. Is that a monopoly because they do not allow their competitors to have free run of their facility?

Natural monopolies are still monopolies. This is why central heating companies are constantly being bombarded by inqueries they are not raising the costs above the necessary (at least in normal countries :P ). Comcast is also a natural monopoly due to high costs of infrastructure needed for competition to arise, they are still a moneygrubbing bastards nonetheless.
COpyright is a government granted monopoly. you cant offer identical service/product, now can you? no? so they got a monopoly on that product. To see why that is bad lets say somone gets copyright on potatoes. now only one company can grow and sell potatoes. surely this is ridiculous, but thats what copyright is. Similar products will be forever stuck in courts for "ripoffs". i mean Apple managed to trademark things like round edges and swapping pages by swiping. and they are winning courts on that one.
Its a monopoly because its is illegal to create and sell same product.

I must have missed that story. I always laugh when people say they need to be judged like everyone else. Their job is to kill people so how in the hell can you judge them like other people?

Noone is above the law (in a perfect world anyway). If their actions are unlawful they should be judged appropriately. you should not be able to ignore laws just because your employer wants you to. laws > job. you either judge everyone equality or you got a corrupt system.

You never tell a "little white lie"? Sometimes the truth is detrimental to the situation.

I try to avoid lieing as much as possible and demand others to do the same. id rather take criticism at face value than somone lie to me because they want to look good. I cannot say i am never guilty of lieing, however there is no such thing as a white lie. a lie is a lie.
Truth is detrimental only if the people hearing it is incapable to evaluate the reality of the situation. Sadly, humans are quite poor at that.

For the love of god can you please put some space between the quotes and your text? Trying to reply is a bitch.

Strazdas:
Natural monopolies are still monopolies. This is why central heating companies are constantly being bombarded by inqueries they are not raising the costs above the necessary (at least in normal countries :P ). Comcast is also a natural monopoly due to high costs of infrastructure needed for competition to arise, they are still a moneygrubbing bastards nonetheless.

However, to my knowledge there is no true monopoly due to a natural monopoly situation. There are multiple companies that provide utilities, heating, and telecom so there is some competition to stabilize and drive down the prices. I'm all for regulations on natural monopolies to keep the prices form skyrocketing, but the competition helps keep everyone in check too.

COpyright is a government granted monopoly. you cant offer identical service/product, now can you? no? so they got a monopoly on that product. To see why that is bad lets say somone gets copyright on potatoes. now only one company can grow and sell potatoes. surely this is ridiculous, but thats what copyright is. Similar products will be forever stuck in courts for "ripoffs". i mean Apple managed to trademark things like round edges and swapping pages by swiping. and they are winning courts on that one.
Its a monopoly because its is illegal to create and sell same product.

Yes you can offer an "identical service". This time it is you who are thinking too specific. Apple and Microsoft both have proprietary smartphone software, proprietary smartphone hardware, proprietary networks, ect. HOWEVER, they both compete with each other in the telecom market. A monopoly means that only one company fills a certain market niche. The PS, Xbox, and Wii are all proprietary hardware and software but they all compete in the same market niche. I am seriously starting to doubt your claims of having business education as the definition of a monopoly is an entry level thing...

Noone is above the law (in a perfect world anyway). If their actions are unlawful they should be judged appropriately. you should not be able to ignore laws just because your employer wants you to. laws > job. you either judge everyone equality or you got a corrupt system.

But what about when you they have different laws specifically for them? Did you know that the US special forces have classified clauses in our laws that give them more leeway than conventional forces? They are not above the law, they just have different laws to follow. People don't understand that and think the soldiers should be held to the same laws as some dude that sits in an office all day.

I try to avoid lieing as much as possible and demand others to do the same. id rather take criticism at face value than somone lie to me because they want to look good. I cannot say i am never guilty of lieing, however there is no such thing as a white lie. a lie is a lie.
Truth is detrimental only if the people hearing it is incapable to evaluate the reality of the situation. Sadly, humans are quite poor at that.

So then you have had an easy life. I have had to live my entire life knowing when to lie to people. My father was in the USAF from before I was born till I was 22. I knew about troops deploying for Operation Dessert Storm about a week before the rest of the world. I knew the F-22 Raptor blew ass before they were even deployed to their duty stations. I've had "Secret" security clearance. I know that the truth can be detrimental, case in point. If I went telling everyone that the F-22 absolutely blew the entire North-West of the US would have been vulnerable to aerial attack when the F-16s were redeployed to the Mid-West before the USAF admitted the F-22s were garbage. It's not always about feelings, sometimes it's about lives.

I think our conflicting views are summed up in this section. I know the value, or more accurately the potential destruction that information can cause. While you seem not to.

Sarge034:
For the love of god can you please put some space between the quotes and your text? Trying to reply is a bitch.

I dont see a problem with formatting in the post your quoting. You want me to make large scroll areas between quotes or something?

However, to my knowledge there is no true monopoly due to a natural monopoly situation. There are multiple companies that provide utilities, heating, and telecom so there is some competition to stabilize and drive down the prices. I'm all for regulations on natural monopolies to keep the prices form skyrocketing, but the competition helps keep everyone in check too.

Then your knowledge is lacking. There is one central heating company, one central water utility company. In fact in order to use anything but that company you will likely spend more on legal fees than just using them. While technically it may not be illegal to use others after proper paperwork, practically there is no choice. And there is no alternative other than you make your own heating and dig your own well. It may be different in other countries.
Yes, competition helps to keep everyone in check, which is why i was arguing for it previuosly.

Yes you can offer an "identical service". This time it is you who are thinking too specific. Apple and Microsoft both have proprietary smartphone software, proprietary smartphone hardware, proprietary networks, ect. HOWEVER, they both compete with each other in the telecom market. A monopoly means that only one company fills a certain market niche. The PS, Xbox, and Wii are all proprietary hardware and software but they all compete in the same market niche. I am seriously starting to doubt your claims of having business education as the definition of a monopoly is an entry level thing...

Really? I can film my own Avengers and sell them? Do tell me how im sure i could make a lot of money on that.
But no, you dont sell identical services, you sell alternative services. To use the previously used potato example, an alternative service would be to sell carrots while somone has monopoly on potatoes. you wouldnt be selling potatoes, but still be in the food service market.

While i could provide evidence of my education i do believe that its not the education but the idea put forth here that you should be responding to.

But what about when you they have different laws specifically for them? Did you know that the US special forces have classified clauses in our laws that give them more leeway than conventional forces? They are not above the law, they just have different laws to follow. People don't understand that and think the soldiers should be held to the same laws as some dude that sits in an office all day.

They dont have different laws. laws are the same for everyone. They do have clauses that are specific to them. they do not allow them to go and randomly kill people they dont like however. Classified law is a joke. This is like saying god told them to do. If the public cannot see the law exists its as good as it doesnt.

So then you have had an easy life. I have had to live my entire life knowing when to lie to people. My father was in the USAF from before I was born till I was 22. I knew about troops deploying for Operation Dessert Storm about a week before the rest of the world. I knew the F-22 Raptor blew ass before they were even deployed to their duty stations. I've had "Secret" security clearance. I know that the truth can be detrimental, case in point. If I went telling everyone that the F-22 absolutely blew the entire North-West of the US would have been vulnerable to aerial attack when the F-16s were redeployed to the Mid-West before the USAF admitted the F-22s were garbage. It's not always about feelings, sometimes it's about lives.

You put forth a good reason for this and to a point it is understandable, however still not commendable. And if the world knew that F-22 was bad then maybe they would have incentive to build one that doesnt.

I think our conflicting views are summed up in this section. I know the value, or more accurately the potential destruction that information can cause. While you seem not to.

I know. I dont care. This is because i believe the world would be a better place in the long run. In this i have a Vulcan way of looking at this. The good of many outweigh the good of few.

Strazdas:
I dont see a problem with formatting in the post your quoting. You want me to make large scroll areas between quotes or something?

The quotes were butt up against your reply to them. It was difficult to discern where the break was as I usually reply to this forum between 3 and 5 AM local time. Just a single space between the quote and the reply does wonders.

Then your knowledge is lacking. There is one central heating company, one central water utility company. In fact in order to use anything but that company you will likely spend more on legal fees than just using them. While technically it may not be illegal to use others after proper paperwork, practically there is no choice. And there is no alternative other than you make your own heating and dig your own well. It may be different in other countries.
Yes, competition helps to keep everyone in check, which is why i was arguing for it previuosly.

Perhaps it is not my knowledge that is lacking, but my experience. I have lived quite a few different places but admittedly all but one was in the US. Everywhere I have lived or visited in the US has had at least two or three different options for heating, electricity, and telecom unless the services were not available at all. Could you elaborate on where there is ONLY "one central heating company, one central water utility company"?

Really? I can film my own Avengers and sell them? Do tell me how im sure i could make a lot of money on that.
But no, you dont sell identical services, you sell alternative services. To use the previously used potato example, an alternative service would be to sell carrots while somone has monopoly on potatoes. you wouldnt be selling potatoes, but still be in the food service market.

Well, you could either move to China and not give a fuck or you could film a knockoff. A superhero film with similar heroes, villains, and plot with just enough changed to not incur the wrath of the law. IE, to provide an identical service (superhero mash-up movie) without using proprietary "things". It happens all the time.

As for your potato example, no. It would be like one farm owning a proprietary genetic make-up and the other farm growing a different species of potato to compete in the potato market.

While i could provide evidence of my education i do believe that its not the education but the idea put forth here that you should be responding to.

To assert you have a masters in a business field and then to have such a flawed understanding of an entry level term like monopoly is concerning. It means either you are lying about your education, which would render any meaningful discussion from a business education standpoint moot, or you do in fact have a masters but are, for one reason or another, unable to recall all of the information.

Personally I don't care. I would have this conversation with someone without any business education if they could remain civil, but it would change how I approached the conversation. Don't bother posting any "evidence" as it will either be fake or a gross breach of forum rules.

They dont have different laws. laws are the same for everyone. They do have clauses that are specific to them. they do not allow them to go and randomly kill people they dont like however. Classified law is a joke. This is like saying god told them to do. If the public cannot see the law exists its as good as it doesnt.

I'm going to need a second to laugh at the juxtaposition of the first three sentences. Anyway, I think we need to define what we are talking about a little bit better. The classified clauses deal with special forces in combat and those are far different from the unclassified clauses dealing with the armed forces in general. For example, and this is all US law because that's what I know, an unclassified clause is that it is illegal to own a spring assisted knife unless you are in law enforcement or the military. Another is that military personal can attend civilian handgun training under the age of 21 (the legal age to own a handgun). I don't know any of the classified clauses because... well they're classified. I do know from talking with some people who were absorbed by SOCOM (Special Operations Command) during a restructuring that... let's just say situations like the one faced in Lone Survivor don't happen any more and take from that what you will.

There are argument to be made for both sides of the classified law debate and both have merits. However, it is kind of a catch 22 as we need to know what they are to debate them but if the laws are disclosed it defeats the purpose of them being classified in the first place. Namely our enemies will adapt to the now known rules special forces operators must abide by.

You put forth a good reason for this and to a point it is understandable, however still not commendable. And if the world knew that F-22 was bad then maybe they would have incentive to build one that doesnt.

Not commendable? And putting the lives of every single person on the west coast in jeopardy IS commendable? ... I'll continue this in the next section.

I know. I dont care. This is because i believe the world would be a better place in the long run. In this i have a Vulcan way of looking at this. The good of many outweigh the good of few.

I happen to value human life in most circumstances and the fact that you so brazenly don't is legitimately disturbing. Perhaps you don't care because it wasn't your country at risk. It wasn't your family at risk. So I'll ask you this mr utilitarian, how is the US being attacked by a foreign power in a moment of weakness for the good of the many? Being the attack would have to take advantage of our limited air combat capabilities and the scope of the attack it would be a nation that would do it. That means the US is at war with said nation. That means all of the US' allies are at war with said nation. Said nation would then be at war with all of the US' allies. All of said nation's allies are at war with the US AND the US' allies. Welcome to WW3.

So if the entire world is the few, who the fuck is the many?

Sarge034:

Perhaps it is not my knowledge that is lacking, but my experience. I have lived quite a few different places but admittedly all but one was in the US. Everywhere I have lived or visited in the US has had at least two or three different options for heating, electricity, and telecom unless the services were not available at all. Could you elaborate on where there is ONLY "one central heating company, one central water utility company"?

Lithuania, Latvia, Estonie and Poland from my experience, a lot of other places too from what i read.

Well, you could either move to China and not give a fuck or you could film a knockoff. A superhero film with similar heroes, villains, and plot with just enough changed to not incur the wrath of the law. IE, to provide an identical service (superhero mash-up movie) without using proprietary "things". It happens all the time.

As for your potato example, no. It would be like one farm owning a proprietary genetic make-up and the other farm growing a different species of potato to compete in the potato market.

It appears you have not udnerstood me. i dont want to film a knockoff. i want to film a copy of avengers. can i do that? no? well then someone has a legal monopoly on avengers. Granted, the monopoly often does not extend to china, but thats not a very strong argument you got there.

Yeah, except, anyone can grow any potato he wants. nobody owns rights to potato species, even thier inventors. as soon as you buy one of them from them you can plant it and grow your own and sell it at your will.

Don't bother posting any "evidence" as it will either be fake or a gross breach of forum rules.

Ok, this one got my attention, how would my education be in breach of forum rules?

I happen to value human life in most circumstances and the fact that you so brazenly don't is legitimately disturbing. Perhaps you don't care because it wasn't your country at risk. It wasn't your family at risk. So I'll ask you this mr utilitarian, how is the US being attacked by a foreign power in a moment of weakness for the good of the many? Being the attack would have to take advantage of our limited air combat capabilities and the scope of the attack it would be a nation that would do it. That means the US is at war with said nation. That means all of the US' allies are at war with said nation. Said nation would then be at war with all of the US' allies. All of said nation's allies are at war with the US AND the US' allies. Welcome to WW3.

So if the entire world is the few, who the fuck is the many?

Knowledge of your particular airplane being bad would have put forth the efforts for a better airplane. It is also nice how you jump the gun into conclusion that others knowing of one single model being inefficient would lead to world war 3. because, you know, that is the only thing holding world from destruction. If you want to accuse me about lack of my knowledge and education dont just go using slippery slopes straight afterwards please.

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