Oscar-Winning Actor Philip Seymour Hoffman Dies at 46

 Pages PREV 1 2
 

Hey, it's that guy! Oh, he's dead... For some reason I only recently began noticing him anywhere, starting from MI:III and Pirate Radio. Not his most acclaimed roles, but fun all the same.

Yuuki:

Roma:
Drug addiction is a mental disorder. Like any other disease, blaming the victim is not only absurd, but downright offensive. This is not to say that people suffering from this condition aren't responsible for their behavior, but it does mean that it isn't simply a question of choosing not to use. To be blunt: it's fucking hard. Falling off the wagon is quite common, and part of the healing process, and unfortunately, tragedies like this one happen.

So, fine. People judge, fair enough. But if you're gonna do it, get your facts straight, do some research and stop spouting nonsense you heard from a friend and/or the evening news. Jesus people, y'all have the internet. Fucking use it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17999268

In order to suffer from the mental disorder known as "drug addiction", one must already be a drug addict to begin with. In order for drugs to fundamentally re-wire someone's brain to the point of severe addiction/dependency, they must first be consumed in by the person over a long enough period of time (or frequency).
I only had to read the first sentence of that article you linked me before I read the word "long-term", at which point I stopped reading because...no shit, long-term of ANYTHING nasty is going to fuck people up.

But who's decision is it to start that process? People. People make the decision.

The same thing can be applied to financial debt, non-illness-related obesity, alcoholism, smoking, etc. If people choose to walk down that path (for whatever reason) and dig themselves into a deep enough hole, OF COURSE it's going to become "fucking hard" to come back. That's the point they have reached.

Mind you, if this is the first time that the guy is doing heroin and he had no goddamn clue how much to inject...and he unintentionally took WAY too much...then yeah, that would be pretty tragic. But something gives me the feeling that he was already well into it.

Not every person that uses a drug is going to become addiction. Lot of factors weigh in, such as, well, genetics. You might say nobody should ever use drugs, but you know what, people use alcohol, tobacco, coffee and other mind-altering drugs all the time, so the reasons to which some of it is okay and some of it is not aren't purely scientific. A lot of morality and politics go into it, not all of it very sensible.

People are going to use, that's just a fact. To simply tell them not to and judge them when they do works as well as those abstinence programs. Ask people in USA how that's going.

image

Well this news just struck me quite a lot, oddly enough. The guy was a great and had a fantastic acting range.

martyrdrebel27:
you're absolutely right. But a few things here. One: we should never assume that drug addicts are a victim of their own nihilistic hedonism and instead either assume they had demons or not make judgments about their character at all. Two: think of the context of this story, a man who had everything going for him, had no reason to use, yet 25 years clean, couldn't stop himself. Now imagine carrying that demon with you for that long. It is an everyday struggle, especially im his position where he always had the money, you know he had he access. And he fought it off for so long. Even if he didn't start for tragic reasons, his struggle is not something anyone should dare judge him for. He was some strung out junkie fuckinnover friends and family...

So you're saying that he screwed up his own life, yet you gave shit to another guy for saying that he has no sympathy for drug addicts? where's the logic in that? I don't see how you can enforce "don't judge anyone" (which is basically what you're saying here) by saying "fuck you" to a guy that has a different opinion..

"We should never assume that drug addicts..." You shouldn't assume anything, period. Most people here don't know the guy and that's it, move along, I've never understood how some people seem to be so affected when others state their points of view, especially when it lacks even the slightest offensive connotation.

Grabehn:
Well this news just struck me quite a lot, oddly enough. The guy was a great and had a fantastic acting range.

martyrdrebel27:
you're absolutely right. But a few things here. One: we should never assume that drug addicts are a victim of their own nihilistic hedonism and instead either assume they had demons or not make judgments about their character at all. Two: think of the context of this story, a man who had everything going for him, had no reason to use, yet 25 years clean, couldn't stop himself. Now imagine carrying that demon with you for that long. It is an everyday struggle, especially im his position where he always had the money, you know he had he access. And he fought it off for so long. Even if he didn't start for tragic reasons, his struggle is not something anyone should dare judge him for. He was some strung out junkie fuckinnover friends and family...

So you're saying that he screwed up his own life, yet you gave shit to another guy for saying that he has no sympathy for drug addicts? where's the logic in that? I don't see how you can enforce "don't judge anyone" (which is basically what you're saying here) by saying "fuck you" to a guy that has a different opinion..

"We should never assume that drug addicts..." You shouldn't assume anything, period. Most people here don't know the guy and that's it, move along, I've never understood how some people seem to be so affected when others state their points of view, especially when it lacks even the slightest offensive connotation.

ugh, I was all nice and calmed down, then you gotta come along and rekindle the relationship. Okay, first, I never said it was his own fault, my problem was with the guy saying "I don't feel bad for drug addicts." that's such a broad and cold sentiment, you'd have to have cut off a part of your humanity to actually mean. Have someone you care about deal with this and honestly fight to do better, hen you'll understand. Without that experience, you're unable to understand, and even more upsetting, unwilling to try. I really am shocked to see how uncompassionate people are acting about people with drug problems.

Roma:

Yuuki:

martyrdrebel27:
that's such a small and myopic world view though. You can't honestly hink that because your life and your mind work that way that EVERYBODY else's does too. That's just not reality.

Well that mentality could be used as an excuse to pardon crimes ("it's not his fault he's a rapist!"), but that's not how it works and criminals still face justice...well, the ones who get caught anyway. There's a right and a wrong here.

One can end up doing getting into heroin and killing themselves as a result of something that happened in their lives, but that doesn't make it any less wrong especially when they are full-grown adults to be held accountable for their actions. This isn't some juvenile case where the parents/situation/etc can be blamed instead of the kid.

A construction worker getting crushed by a falling steel beam, a child death in a car crash...those are tragedies.
A 46 year old celebrity killing himself with a drug overdose...yeah, not really a tragedy as much as a "oh well". One could probably file it under suicide.

Drug addiction is a mental disorder. Like any other disease, blaming the victim is not only absurd, but downright offensive. This is not to say that people suffering from this condition aren't responsible for their behavior, but it does mean that it isn't simply a question of choosing not to use. To be blunt: it's fucking hard. Falling off the wagon is quite common, and part of the healing process, and unfortunately, tragedies like this one happen.

So, fine. People judge, fair enough. But if you're gonna do it, get your facts straight, do some research and stop spouting nonsense you heard from a friend and/or the evening news. Jesus people, y'all have the internet. Fucking use it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17999268

thank you, finally. Roma gets it. And is apparently much less prone to violent outbursts, so thanks again. Drug addiction really is a tough hung for certain types of people to comprehend. I think, ultimately it comes down to an individual's ability to empathize and their own personal experiences. They need not even have been a drug addict, just be able to relate and equate it to a more familiar equally destructive and cyclical behavior pattern. It like I told the mod who warned me, saying you don't have sympathy for a dead drug addict is just like in the 80's when people said they didn't feel bad for gay people who had aids, if they didn't want aids, they shouldn't have been gay. Plus... Its like Hitler! (it wouldn't be a proper internet debate without someone comparing the other to Hitler)

martyrdrebel27:

Roma:

Yuuki:

Well that mentality could be used as an excuse to pardon crimes ("it's not his fault he's a rapist!"), but that's not how it works and criminals still face justice...well, the ones who get caught anyway. There's a right and a wrong here.

One can end up doing getting into heroin and killing themselves as a result of something that happened in their lives, but that doesn't make it any less wrong especially when they are full-grown adults to be held accountable for their actions. This isn't some juvenile case where the parents/situation/etc can be blamed instead of the kid.

A construction worker getting crushed by a falling steel beam, a child death in a car crash...those are tragedies.
A 46 year old celebrity killing himself with a drug overdose...yeah, not really a tragedy as much as a "oh well". One could probably file it under suicide.

Drug addiction is a mental disorder. Like any other disease, blaming the victim is not only absurd, but downright offensive. This is not to say that people suffering from this condition aren't responsible for their behavior, but it does mean that it isn't simply a question of choosing not to use. To be blunt: it's fucking hard. Falling off the wagon is quite common, and part of the healing process, and unfortunately, tragedies like this one happen.

So, fine. People judge, fair enough. But if you're gonna do it, get your facts straight, do some research and stop spouting nonsense you heard from a friend and/or the evening news. Jesus people, y'all have the internet. Fucking use it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17999268

thank you, finally. Roma gets it. And is apparently much less prone to violent outbursts, so thanks again. Drug addiction really is a tough hung for certain types of people to comprehend. I think, ultimately it comes down to an individual's ability to empathize and their own personal experiences. They need not even have been a drug addict, just be able to relate and equate it to a more familiar equally destructive and cyclical behavior pattern. It like I told the mod who warned me, saying you don't have sympathy for a dead drug addict is just like in the 80's when people said they didn't feel bad for gay people who had aids, if they didn't want aids, they shouldn't have been gay. Plus... Its like Hitler! (it wouldn't be a proper internet debate without someone comparing the other to Hitler)

You could also bring up crack babies. They were literally born as addicts.

martyrdrebel27:

thank you, finally. Roma gets it. And is apparently much less prone to violent outbursts, so thanks again. Drug addiction really is a tough hung for certain types of people to comprehend. I think, ultimately it comes down to an individual's ability to empathize and their own personal experiences. They need not even have been a drug addict, just be able to relate and equate it to a more familiar equally destructive and cyclical behavior pattern. It like I told the mod who warned me, saying you don't have sympathy for a dead drug addict is just like in the 80's when people said they didn't feel bad for gay people who had aids, if they didn't want aids, they shouldn't have been gay. Plus... Its like Hitler! (it wouldn't be a proper internet debate without someone comparing the other to Hitler)

I don't even... what? So you're saying drug addicts are the new gay people is that what I'm getting here? And if you judge them you are Hitler... Okay... The difference between gay people having a not that commonly known disease in the 80s from having anal intercourse or a drug addict that ODs is that one is a disease you got(and might I add a not so well known one in the 80s) and the other is something you chose to do that got out of hand. I can have sympathy for the poor man in the slums that does drugs because he feels so low from having a "crummy life" but not so much for someone that has several millions in the bank and does drugs because he wanted to at some point and now fell back into his old habit. That's not to say i have no sympathy mind you but nowhere near as much as I do for the people that use drugs because their lives are basicly barely worth being called lives. (and yes I do know addicts and knew people that have OD'd)

Well, that's a thing I guess. I'm more interested to see what they do with the movies he was a part of. Something tells me they aren't going to be as quick to cancel The Hunger Games as they were with Fast and Furious...

martyrdrebel27:
ugh, I was all nice and calmed down, then you gotta come along and rekindle the relationship. Okay, first, I never said it was his own fault, my problem was with the guy saying "I don't feel bad for drug addicts." that's such a broad and cold sentiment, you'd have to have cut off a part of your humanity to actually mean. Have someone you care about deal with this and honestly fight to do better, hen you'll understand. Without that experience, you're unable to understand, and even more upsetting, unwilling to try. I really am shocked to see how uncompassionate people are acting about people with drug problems.

I wasn't trying to rekindle anything though, sorry if it turned out to sound like that, I was just trying to get what your actual point was, thanks for the reply btw.

Sarge034:
Well, that's a thing I guess. I'm more interested to see what they do with the movies he was a part of. Something tells me they aren't going to be as quick to cancel The Hunger Games as they were with Fast and Furious...

Except they haven't canceled Fast and Furious at all, so...

Shocksplicer:
Except they haven't canceled Fast and Furious at all, so...

Well it appears I didn't get the update. Last I heard the movie was "put on indefinite hold after his death." So let me rephrase. I'm curious to see if they simply recast his roll(s) or change the script to cut out his character.

An amazing actor that will be missed, who died for an incredibly stupid reason. Please don't use harmful drugs, people. You know even without trying heroin that it's potentially deadly.

An amazing actor, a wonderful humanitarian.... all wasted because of a deadly drug. :(

jayzz911:

martyrdrebel27:

thank you, finally. Roma gets it. And is apparently much less prone to violent outbursts, so thanks again. Drug addiction really is a tough hung for certain types of people to comprehend. I think, ultimately it comes down to an individual's ability to empathize and their own personal experiences. They need not even have been a drug addict, just be able to relate and equate it to a more familiar equally destructive and cyclical behavior pattern. It like I told the mod who warned me, saying you don't have sympathy for a dead drug addict is just like in the 80's when people said they didn't feel bad for gay people who had aids, if they didn't want aids, they shouldn't have been gay. Plus... Its like Hitler! (it wouldn't be a proper internet debate without someone comparing the other to Hitler)

I don't even... what? So you're saying drug addicts are the new gay people is that what I'm getting here? And if you judge them you are Hitler... Okay... The difference between gay people having a not that commonly known disease in the 80s from having anal intercourse or a drug addict that ODs is that one is a disease you got(and might I add a not so well known one in the 80s) and the other is something you chose to do that got out of hand. I can have sympathy for the poor man in the slums that does drugs because he feels so low from having a "crummy life" but not so much for someone that has several millions in the bank and does drugs because he wanted to at some point and now fell back into his old habit. That's not to say i have no sympathy mind you but nowhere near as much as I do for the people that use drugs because their lives are basicly barely worth being called lives. (and yes I do know addicts and knew people that have OD'd)

He was in his early 20's, he was just out of college. He was an alcohlic. Already an addict he moved on to heroin. Then got clean for over two decades and had a relapse because being an addict never goes away and he got hooked on medication that he was prescribed. People make mistakes, especially young people and drug addiction is a mistake that follows you for the rest of your life. Unless you're fucking perfect maybe have a bit of compassion or just don't say anything.

Also if you think rich people can't suffer from depression or need a release you know nothing about the nature of depression. So you're point about understanding a poor person doing it stinks of ignorance.

martyrdrebel27:

ugh, I was all nice and calmed down, then you gotta come along and rekindle the relationship. Okay, first, I never said it was his own fault, my problem was with the guy saying "I don't feel bad for drug addicts." that's such a broad and cold sentiment, you'd have to have cut off a part of your humanity to actually mean. Have someone you care about deal with this and honestly fight to do better, hen you'll understand. Without that experience, you're unable to understand, and even more upsetting, unwilling to try. I really am shocked to see how uncompassionate people are acting about people with drug problems.

Hey, how about this... you want to feel sorry for someone? Feel sorry for his wife and three kids he left behind with his stupid decision. Yeah lets take a moment and remember he had others that DEPENDED on him, which he apparently didn't care enough to factor in while shooting up. You can have sympathy for him all you like, but don't for a minute think that everyone has to just because you do. That is YOUR opinion, just like the people saying they don't have sympathy for a drug addict is THEIR opinion.

Again, Pot meet kettle. Why don't you take your own advice and try and take a moment to understand someone with a different experience to yours.

Secondary headline: "Shooting Up Illegal Drug Can Kill You; Who Knew?"

martyrdrebel27:

again, you're proving your thickheadedness and revealing your need to be contradictory rather than an actual participant in this discussion. You're telling the person who has personally lost people to drug addiction that they aren't considering the impact it has on the survivors... Just stop dude, you are obviously out of your wheelhouse and in over your head. When I have a question about Red XIII I'll be sure to turn to you, but this here, just isn't your fight, and you have no interest in learning about it, so your presence is useless at best and irresponsibly socially backward at worst. You have no idea how much damage you could be doing to an addict who sees your lack of compassion and understanding.

Hahaha... Did you seriously just judge my knowledge based on the profile avatar I have on a forum? (You realize this is a gaming/techy/comic/tv community and most people here have avatar pictures of video game / comic / tv characters right?) You are going to sit there and criticize me for my opinion on a subject and claim I'm not participating in a conversation because I don't agree with you, and point out the hypocrisy in your posts?

Listen, I don't care who you are... I don't care about whatever past you've gone through that makes you think that your opinion on the subject is the only view point that is valid in this situation. You have no idea of my past, of my loss in relation to drugs. Just because I don't share your "Woes is them the helpless addict" doesn't make me wrong.

You don't want a discussion... you want to have your pity party on a forum and expect everyone to follow suit. Well you know what... SCREW THAT. As I said, you are more than welcome to feel sympathy for him, and mourn his loss, and say he was a tragic victim of addiction, that is your opinion.

I am going to continue to feel sympathy for those he left behind, those he didn't care enough about when he selfishly lost himself in drugs again. For those who have to continue living their lives without him, because he couldn't be bothered to live his life WITH them.

Pot, meet Kettle... Stop being such a hypocrite and realize that there is more than just your opinion in the world.

Demagogue:

martyrdrebel27:

again, you're proving your thickheadedness and revealing your need to be contradictory rather than an actual participant in this discussion. You're telling the person who has personally lost people to drug addiction that they aren't considering the impact it has on the survivors... Just stop dude, you are obviously out of your wheelhouse and in over your head. When I have a question about Red XIII I'll be sure to turn to you, but this here, just isn't your fight, and you have no interest in learning about it, so your presence is useless at best and irresponsibly socially backward at worst. You have no idea how much damage you could be doing to an addict who sees your lack of compassion and understanding.

Hahaha... Did you seriously just judge my knowledge based on the profile avatar I have on a forum? (You realize this is a gaming/techy/comic/tv community and most people here have avatar pictures of video game / comic / tv characters right?) You are going to sit there and criticize me for my opinion on a subject and claim I'm not participating in a conversation because I don't agree with you, and point out the hypocrisy in your posts?

Listen, I don't care who you are... I don't care about whatever past you've gone through that makes you think that your opinion on the subject is the only view point that is valid in this situation. You have no idea of my past, of my loss in relation to drugs. Just because I don't share your "Woes is them the helpless addict" doesn't make me wrong.

You don't want a discussion... you want to have your pity party on a forum and expect everyone to follow suit. Well you know what... SCREW THAT. As I said, you are more than welcome to feel sympathy for him, and mourn his loss, and say he was a tragic victim of addiction, that is your opinion.

I am going to continue to feel sympathy for those he left behind, those he didn't care enough about when he selfishly lost himself in drugs again. For those who have to continue living their lives without him, because he couldn't be bothered to live his life WITH them.

Pot, meet Kettle... Stop being such a hypocrite and realize that there is more than just your opinion in the world.

okay.

damn low content post rules. Now I gotta filibuster for a second. I still think you're wrong, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is how this situation is handle on the social stage, and more and more society is coming to understand and empathize with addicts, and people with other types of mental disorders that were previously seen as weakness of character or whatever. I don't know why I thought I could change a single mind, especially in the cyber environment.

oh, and as for the red xiii thing, no I wasn't judging your entire.personality based on that, I took ONE single thing that I knew you were I to and used it to make my point. I probably could've clicked your profile, looked at that and found something you were WAAAY into, but that seems like a lot pointlessness that I'm not that interested in. I'm not particularly invested in your opinion on anything, its the idea that such uncompassionate feelings exist in humanity that bothers me. I dunno, I wish people were nicer to each other. Myself included. The difference is that as you see above, I was caught up in anger at perceived social injustices, and admitted I over reacted. But some people are just mean by default, on a personality level, just uncaring and selfish.

Demagogue:

martyrdrebel27:

ugh, I was all nice and calmed down, then you gotta come along and rekindle the relationship. Okay, first, I never said it was his own fault, my problem was with the guy saying "I don't feel bad for drug addicts." that's such a broad and cold sentiment, you'd have to have cut off a part of your humanity to actually mean. Have someone you care about deal with this and honestly fight to do better, hen you'll understand. Without that experience, you're unable to understand, and even more upsetting, unwilling to try. I really am shocked to see how uncompassionate people are acting about people with drug problems.

Hey, how about this... you want to feel sorry for someone? Feel sorry for his wife and three kids he left behind with his stupid decision. Yeah lets take a moment and remember he had others that DEPENDED on him, which he apparently didn't care enough to factor in while shooting up. You can have sympathy for him all you like, but don't for a minute think that everyone has to just because you do. That is YOUR opinion, just like the people saying they don't have sympathy for a drug addict is THEIR opinion.

Again, Pot meet kettle. Why don't you take your own advice and try and take a moment to understand someone with a different experience to yours.

This is a commom strategy when dehumanizing a certain group of people. I don't mean this as an offense, it's just that, when you tell someone 'look at the real victims', you're also saying 'stop feeling sorry for the bad guy', as if he was less of a person for having died. For having a disease, and having made a mistake of starting to use in the first place. Drug Addiction does not have a definitive cure. What we can do is control it, and try to keep it at bay, but people fall off the wagon constantly, because that's just the way it works. Guy was clean for 23 years. 23 years. And truth is, addicts can be good people and bad people, but the fact that they have a condition does not in any way diminish them, despite society's intention to do so. His family is suffering, they are victims, but the central point here is that they are ALSO victims.

You can try to find the bad guy here: the dealer, the suppliers, the misinformation spread by the war on drugs, but truly, this is just a fucking tragedy. We're all grown-ups, let's stop looking for villains and heroes in our daily lives and face the gray area.

sorry, double post here

 Pages PREV 1 2

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here