Users Accidentally Buy Items on PS4 PSN Store Using DualShock 4 for PS3

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Users Accidentally Buy Items on PS4 PSN Store Using DualShock 4 for PS3

Dark Souls II players using the DualShock 4 on PS3 have reported that they've accidentally purchased content on the PS4's PSN Store, and Sony is refusing to offer a refund.

It's been known for a few months now that the PlayStation 4's DualShock 4 can be used for some games on the PS3. However, what you're about to read might make you rethink doing that in the future. According to forum posters on the RLLMUK forums, some users are reporting that playing Dark Souls II using the DualShock 4 on the PS3 has resulted in them accidentally purchasing items off the PS4's PSN Store. If that wasn't bad enough, Sony is said to be refusing to issue refunds.

Here's forum user Timmo posting what happened to him:

Ok, most of you will find this funny (I know I would), I'm fuming.

Playing Dark Souls 2 on the PS3 with my PS4 controller, I leave my PS4 on as it's downloading updates.

Turns out the controller can control both at the same time.

So my inputs on Dark Souls buy me FIFA on PS4 (a game I already own) and British Cop skin pack (I don't even know what this is). Get an email on my tablet telling me so.

Ring psn and straight away the guy is just saying "terms of use", "no refunds" etc. 56.68.

Ask to speak to his superior and they won't come on the phone. He then tells me support staff have said it's not possible to control two devices at once. He doesn't seem to believe me.

Half of me wants to trade this in for an Xbox with Titanfall right now.

Another user by the name of LongHairStu, also shares his tale, and yes, he was also playing Dark Souls II.

Yeah, hi. *Raises hand* Me too. Kind of. I had two Dark Souls sessions - at midnight, when the PS4 pad seemed to work fine, and at lunchtime, when I couldn't get it to work. Can't remember why, but it must have been disconnected when I turned the PS3 on, as fixing it took switching everything off, plugging it in (changing USB port at the time), and restarting. Then it worked. When I saw the standby light on the PS4 later on, I figured I'd just turned it on. I was mortified when I saw Battlefield there, and then I noticed that I'd watched a film as well.

I guess it must have been in that time that the PS4 pad wasn't properly connected to the PS3 that it happened. Notwithstanding the distance selling point, I appreciate that I might not have a leg to stand on, but I'll be looking to ask anyway - I can't easily weather a 68 loss. Hell, I have zero interest in Battlefield 4 (hey, if only there was some way of selling on digital content...), if it had been Assassin's Creed 4, or Need for Speed at the same price, or Strider/Trine 2 for 15 or so, I probably could have taken it on the chin. So, yeah, fuming is a word I can get on board with. Guess I'll email Sony, but I'll be leaving my dignity at the door.

Really taken the shine off what was an otherwise great day. My birthday, as it happens. And do keep laughing - I've laughed at it now and then, it doesn't really pay to get too snarled up over it.

We've reached out to Sony for a statement regarding its refund policy and what they have to say on the matter. If and when the company responds, we'll update the post accordingly.

As someone who honestly didn't know that you can control both consoles at the same time using one controller, I'm glad I heard of this before using the DualShock 4 on my PS3. Or is this something that's exclusive to Dark Souls II since we haven't heard of this happening before?

So, for those planning on using a DS4 on their PS3, make sure your PS4 is turned off first just to be safe. Either that, or unlink your credit card to your PSN account since there are all sorts of trouble that can stem from it. In your opinion, should Sony offer a refund for the accidental purchases? Or are the users to blame since Sony hasn't officially endorsed using the DS4 on the PS3 (at least from what I remember) and it's their duty to make sure their PS4s are turned off?

Source: RLLMUK via NeoGAF

Permalink

According to Australian consumer law, Sony will have to offer refunds. Say what you want about us, at least we treat consumers with respect.

If this can be reproduced under controlled circumstances then by all means, refund them! It is highly unlikely to have affected many people which means minimal effort on Sony's part but at the same time it is almost guaranteed that the users had no idea that this was even possible and thus no blame can be put on them for such an unpredictable farce of technology.

Sony, you are missing a trick here, and one you miss so much. This is going to be so rare that the good will bump from just refunding people is so far under the bad press of refusing. It amazes me how much modern electronics company fail at customer service, loyalty, and will building. All they see is the raw $ signs, soft things like good will are just wasted. I used to work in support, and saw how much companies came down on customer service as a cost-negative waste of money. Seems the bean counters won, judging by the complete lack of customer service on offer.

This almost happened to me. was playing something on my ps3 with the Dualshock4 controller and when I switched to my ps4 it was turned on an in some menu. Fortunately I hadn't purchased anything

If Sony offered refunds simply out of good will I would respect that, I wont hold it against them for refusing to offer one after a customer screw up though.

Wait.....if the PS4 is turned off, how can it control both consoles :S or do you need to have the PS4 on in order for this to work?

Still why you would WANT to use the ps4 controller on the ps3 is beyond me, use the correct controller for the correct system. Simple!

So I'm guessing their psn accounts or purchases weren't password protected, because if that's the case then I'm sorry but I have no sympathy to spare on this one. Although if this has has got into the news it might generate enogh negative PR that Sony reverses their decision.

Also my PS3 controller isn't working so well (dropped it too many times) so I think I might try using the PS4 one myself.

arc1991:
Wait.....if the PS4 is turned off, how can it control both consoles

It was turned on.

Evil Smurf:
According to Australian consumer law, Sony will have to offer refunds. Say what you want about us, at least we treat consumers with respect.

Shame that UK law doesn't offer the same. Downloads are still in legal limbo as noone has decided if they're a product or service yet, and the most useful of our consumer protection laws apply to products.

While I realise there's probably some kind of clause stating you shouldn't use the PS4 controller with the PS3, holy fucking shit that's atrocious. I'd be offering refunds just for the customer service, even if I didn't have to under consumer law.

The problem is, this is absolutely unprovable. Everyone can now claim for a refund on literally anything you've bought out over the PSN and claim you didn't know the controller was controlling both.

Saying that, I expect these guys to get some sort of refund now it's hit the press

J Tyran:
If Sony offered refunds simply out of good will I would respect that, I wont hold it against them for refusing to offer one after a customer screw up though.

Same.

MeChaNiZ3D:
While I realise there's probably some kind of clause stating you shouldn't use the PS4 controller with the PS3, holy fucking shit that's atrocious. I'd be offering refunds just for the customer service, even if I didn't have to under consumer law.

That's the thing, though. If Sony isn't officially supporting the DS4 for use on the PS3, it can cite that as a clause or something. And from what I know, they've never officially endorsed it for the PS3, yes?

BrotherRool:
The problem is, this is absolutely unprovable. Everyone can now claim for a refund on literally anything you've bought out over the PSN and claim you didn't know the controller was controlling both.

Saying that, I expect these guys to get some sort of refund now it's hit the press

Yep, very good point. If Sony does this, what's stopping people from buying something online, finishing it and asking for a refund.

I feel for the consumers here, but at the same time, I also understand where Sony is coming from. This is one of the pains of a digital future, I guess.

Alex Co:
Yep, very good point. If Sony does this, what's stopping people from buying something online, finishing it and asking for a refund.

I would say, a timelimit? "Ask for a refund within 4 hours and get it right away, no questions asked"-kind of thing?

BrotherRool:
The problem is, this is absolutely unprovable. Everyone can now claim for a refund on literally anything you've bought out over the PSN and claim you didn't know the controller was controlling both.

Saying that, I expect these guys to get some sort of refund now it's hit the press

While I agree that the act of buying something by mistake is not really provable, I at least expect them to patch this issue quickly so the controller only connects to one active system at a time.

I expect these guys in particular may be offered short term PS+ membership free of charge over an actual refund.

I was worried for a moment but I don't think I will ever try using my PS4 controller for my PS3 so this doesn't seem like an issue that will affect me.

And this is why you do not allow store checkouts without entering a password, kiddos.

Bindal:

I would say, a timelimit? "Ask for a refund within 4 hours and get it right away, no questions asked"-kind of thing?

A time limit is probably the best way of going about this sort of thing, yes.

Indeed, I believe the refund policy on EA's Origin service works this way. You are able to request a refund if you have bought the game within, I think, a week OR within 24 hours of launching the game for the first time. Whichever comes first, naturally.

And yeah. Companies should be integrating this sort of stuff into their plans as soon as possible. Especially if you can actually buy stuff on their store by accident. If it's so easy to buy stuff, it really should be easy to refund it.

The problem with having an "accident only" refund clause is, of course, that it would very difficult to prove an accidental purchase.*

*Edit: Not that you were confused, or asked, I was just yabbering.

Bah, on PC I regularly get drunk and buy stuff on various sales and give it away.

No refunds is part of the culture now. Apart from EA will give you em pretty easy these days.

Edit: Seriously though they should refund the dude.

There's protecting consumers and there's protecting dumbasses. If you're not smart enough to realize a controller might be controlling the thing it came with...

So. For all that this sucks for the people involved, I can't help but imagine that someone out there might think of this as an opportunity for an added difficulty mode in Dark Souls: try to beat the game while spending less than a certain threshold in the PS4 shop.

I don't know. I find this highly suspect. I once tried to have my PS3 and PS4 on at the same time to download PS+ games. And it didn't seem that I could. Maybe I need to set something up, but it seemed I couldn't be connected to PSN on both at the same time.

Due to that, I'm not certain that this actually happened. Which would explain Sony denying the refund.

If it actually happened, they deserve refunds. I'm just not certain that it actually happened.

Morti:

Evil Smurf:
According to Australian consumer law, Sony will have to offer refunds. Say what you want about us, at least we treat consumers with respect.

Shame that UK law doesn't offer the same. Downloads are still in legal limbo as noone has decided if they're a product or service yet, and the most useful of our consumer protection laws apply to products.

It's odd, companies like Apple and Nintendo say "no refunds" to downloaded content even in Australia, it's good to know the law I suppose.

Evil Smurf:

Morti:

Evil Smurf:
According to Australian consumer law, Sony will have to offer refunds. Say what you want about us, at least we treat consumers with respect.

Shame that UK law doesn't offer the same. Downloads are still in legal limbo as noone has decided if they're a product or service yet, and the most useful of our consumer protection laws apply to products.

It's odd, companies like Apple and Nintendo say "no refunds" to downloaded content even in Australia, it's good to know the law I suppose.

Its kinda that, Apple and so forth can put that in their EULA/ToS or whereever they want to, but at the end of the day, the respective countries laws override whatever is in the EULA anyway. For the most part the EULA isnt even legally binding in some countries and can therefore be utterly ignored. For example i know there is a british law that you can quote at Valve to get a refund no matter what.

Alex Co:

Yep, very good point. If Sony does this, what's stopping people from buying something online, finishing it and asking for a refund.

That's an easy one, you need a PSN account to make digital purchases, your PSN account tracks how much time you have (or haven't) spent in a game and whether you've installed it or not.

Steam, Origin etc do the same, from Sony's end it would be extremely simple to look up an account, see that it bought product X less than 48 hours ago and that it's never been used.

Unfortunately most companies have figured out that when it comes to digital purchases they can ignore consumer protection law and not many people will come after them. Both the people in the article are in the UK, Sony has to give them a refund, it's not aloud to say no, but nobody's there to enforce it so away they go to abuse the system.

Well I don't know why people thought the controller wouldn't affect both machines, but I absolutely do not let accidental buys slide and refusal to refund when it happens even less so.

Also while your government laws might protect you against such awful business, digital downloads providers do not abide by them, obviously the matter can be taken to court but you better have a lawyer wallet as big as the other guy.

Alex Co:

BrotherRool:
The problem is, this is absolutely unprovable. Everyone can now claim for a refund on literally anything you've bought out over the PSN and claim you didn't know the controller was controlling both.

Yep, very good point. If Sony does this, what's stopping people from buying something online, finishing it and asking for a refund.

If you've been playing it, won't you have at least a few achievements/trophies?

Bad Jim:

Alex Co:

BrotherRool:
The problem is, this is absolutely unprovable. Everyone can now claim for a refund on literally anything you've bought out over the PSN and claim you didn't know the controller was controlling both.

Yep, very good point. If Sony does this, what's stopping people from buying something online, finishing it and asking for a refund.

If you've been playing it, won't you have at least a few achievements/trophies?

Not if you play it on another PSN account.

fix-the-spade:

Alex Co:

Yep, very good point. If Sony does this, what's stopping people from buying something online, finishing it and asking for a refund.

That's an easy one, you need a PSN account to make digital purchases, your PSN account tracks how much time you have (or haven't) spent in a game and whether you've installed it or not.

Steam, Origin etc do the same, from Sony's end it would be extremely simple to look up an account, see that it bought product X less than 48 hours ago and that it's never been used.

Unfortunately most companies have figured out that when it comes to digital purchases they can ignore consumer protection law and not many people will come after them. Both the people in the article are in the UK, Sony has to give them a refund, it's not aloud to say no, but nobody's there to enforce it so away they go to abuse the system.

Damn. That's a very solid solution -- one that's doable even. At this day and age, digital refunds should be the norm as long as it's justified.

Bindal:

Alex Co:
Yep, very good point. If Sony does this, what's stopping people from buying something online, finishing it and asking for a refund.

I would say, a timelimit? "Ask for a refund within 4 hours and get it right away, no questions asked"-kind of thing?

Yep, that would work, no? Maybe 4-6 hours? Or the steps mentioned above.

I love how people keep saying "Sony" as though Sony is a single sentient being. This isn't Sony refusing a refund, this is a customer service rep listening to some guy's story and thinking "Something like this has never come up before, and as far as anyone knows it isn't possible to control two systems at once; so this guy is probably lying out of his ass to cover-up for some buyer's remorse or something along those lines," and then refusing to refund based on what he figured to be a load of hogwash.

And heck, has anyone calling foul on Sony even tried controlling both systems at once? Because Lord knows that NO ONE would ever make-up a false story in order to garner sympathy or just shine a bad light on a company he doesn't like (or has a momentary beef). Hell, Cracked does articles all the time talking about the bogus stories that get reported as fact; yet here we are taking the word of some guy that we've never heard of before, all because it means the chance to demonize a company that some people look for any excuse to demonize.

WhiteTigerShiro:
I love how people keep saying "Sony" as though Sony is a single sentient being. This isn't Sony refusing a refund, this is a customer service rep listening to some guy's story and thinking "Something like this has never come up before, and as far as anyone knows it isn't possible to control two systems at once; so this guy is probably lying out of his ass to cover-up for some buyer's remorse or something along those lines," and then refusing to refund based on what he figured to be a load of hogwash.

And heck, has anyone calling foul on Sony even tried controlling both systems at once? Because Lord knows that NO ONE would ever make-up a false story in order to garner sympathy or just shine a bad light on a company he doesn't like (or has a momentary beef). Hell, Cracked does articles all the time talking about the bogus stories that get reported as fact; yet here we are taking the word of some guy that we've never heard of before, all because it means the chance to demonize a company that some people look for any excuse to demonize.

Oh sure. And it's important to remember this every time a customer service rep does something stupid, as frustrating as it might be. One shouldn't extrapolate the actions of one employee (especially one reasonably far down the greasy pole) to judge the entire company. Especially when, yeah, unconfirmed story.

However, IF the story is true, then it does sound like the service rep got the "no refunds" line drilled into him pretty hard. Which shows that at least one manager somewhere in Sony America has a pretty miserly outlook towards customer service.

But yeah, can anyone actually confirm that a PS4 controller can control two systems at once? Not to make people do work for me for free, of course.

Edit: looks like this took place in the UK, not America.

Sony has always been crap to its customers. I think with online refunds they have to give proper time limit, maybe 12 or 24 hours. 6 hours is rubbish if you did it just before bed. Also have to take into account people working all day so may not find out till the following evening. Also im sure Sony has information on whether the game has been played or not, same way Steam does. If the game was never played then a refund should be done.

Yeah, I'm going to side with Sony on this one. They're not obliged to give refunds due to you using an unsupported controller and being too dumb to check if it's still connected to another device.

That being said, this could be an opportunity for some easy PR...

Morti:

Evil Smurf:
According to Australian consumer law, Sony will have to offer refunds. Say what you want about us, at least we treat consumers with respect.

Shame that UK law doesn't offer the same. Downloads are still in legal limbo as noone has decided if they're a product or service yet, and the most useful of our consumer protection laws apply to products.

In Germany it's a bit murky. Every purchase not made in person (phone, internet) the consumer has the right to back out of inside of 14 days without giving any reasons.

"I don't want this stuff anymore, give me back my money"

"May I ask you why?"

"Fuck you, that's why."

And it is perfectly legal.

With software, music and video it's a bit difficult though. There you do not have the right to back out if the product has been "unsealed". If that guy could proof that he for example hasn't downloaded the stuff he at least would have a leg to stand on in court.

WhiteTigerShiro:

And heck, has anyone calling foul on Sony even tried controlling both systems at once? Because Lord knows that NO ONE would ever make-up a false story in order to garner sympathy or just shine a bad light on a company he doesn't like (or has a momentary beef). Hell, Cracked does articles all the time talking about the bogus stories that get reported as fact; yet here we are taking the word of some guy that we've never heard of before, all because it means the chance to demonize a company that some people look for any excuse to demonize.

I actually tried this. What happened was that I was automatically disconnected from the PSN from one system when accessing it from another. So, began with PS3, then activated the PS4 and PS3 was automatically disconnected. For that reason I have to call out some bullshit on this story.

Dominic Crossman:
So I'm guessing their psn accounts or purchases weren't password protected, because if that's the case then I'm sorry but I have no sympathy to spare on this one.

Really doesn't matter if they had password protection on their purchases or not. Using a PS4 controller on your PS3 should not result in the thing making purchases you didn't intend. Hell, it shouldn't result in it doing anything you didn't intend at all. That's a clear failure on Sony's part.

Assuming the story is true of course. I'm not sure if this is actually possible.

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