Microsoft Tech Video Demo Shows Off Power of Xbox One Cloud

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Microsoft Tech Video Demo Shows Off Power of Xbox One Cloud

A custom demo straight from Microsoft's Build developer conference shows us how the Xbox One's "cloud" could change gaming on the platform.

Back in May last year when the Xbox One was revealed, a lot of talk centered around the console's cloud integration and how it can supposedly help shore up the Xbox One's horsepower Unfortunately, Xbox One owners haven't seen exactly what this means in real world terms. Now, in the video embedded, we at least have an idea what Microsoft means. First off, the footage shown is captured from Microsoft's yearly "Build" developer conference. It's also from a custom demo running on PC and not Xbox One; so, it's not necessarily representative of what the Xbox One is capable of doing -- but it does give us an idea of the possibilities that can be achieved with the cloud's power.

Chances are the footage shown isn't from an actual game but most likely from a prototype to showcase the cloud's power. As such, the frame rate and other factors are most likely optimized to give the best performance. However, even if that is the case, real-time deformation and the frame rate virtually locked at 32 frames-per-second even with all that carnage happening is still a very impressive feat.

Do you think this sort of tech can be implemented on the Xbox One soon? If so, will this put the Xbox One's horsepower at par -- or even surpass -- that of the PlayStation 4's? The possibilities seem endless, it seems. Hopefully, Microsoft integrates this "secret sauce" to its next-gen console soon.

Source: Kotaku via VG247

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So, Microsoft has figured out how to use the cloud to be as powerful as a single graphics card?

That's....impressive, I suppose.

Well, when they get it to do something actually impressive, or at a much, much higher framerate, let me know.

Yeah, no.
I don't see them bringing that into millions of households without blowing up whatever servers provide the computing and I also don't like the idea of gaming companies shutting entire games down after they "ran their course" just like it happens right now with their multiplayer parts.

Areloch:
So, Microsoft has figured out how to use the cloud to be as powerful as a single graphics card?

That's....impressive, I suppose.

Well, when they get it to do something actually impressive, or at a much, much higher framerate, let me know.

This one was also impressive I believe it's from the same event.

Xbox Cloud, massive impressive immersive gameplay, until your ISP throttles your connection and makes you pay OVER NINE THOUSAND dollars...

I think Microsoft are straight up BS-ing to begin with, but even if they aren't the number of people who can afford the bandwidth to use this properly is catastrophically low and with US ISP's in particular trying to force moves to capped contracts it's unlikely to get any higher in the next few years.

That is pretty impressive from a technical point of view, going from 2 fps to 30.
It won't work with lag though.

They present it like CPU / GPU power is free in the cloud, so you can just make whatever bad implementation and throw more power at it! At no cost for the customer / developer?

Yeah this was on a pc with a optimal local network connection, this won't work over the internet at all.

"POWA OF DA CLOUD" was repeated like, 10 times.

What this actually is is the following.

"Let's hook up our computers and have them work together".

"Okay!"

In this case the "Cloud" is a bunch of computers backstage.

What they're advertising is a "Cloud" of computers connected wirelessly over the internet.

What is show, and what they are talking about, are completely and utterly different.

Ughh, they used the word "app". Even worse they used it while referring to a full computer program. That alone is worse then the fact they are lying out their ass if they think this tech will work for more than the few people with expensive internet plans and living within a couple miles of their ISP and the servers running the calculations.

MS just drop this cloud horseshit before it bites off a good chunk of your ass. Cloud is great for game saves, moving large files across great distances and as an extra layer of data backup. It not the magic game booster you say it is, won't be for a decade or more and may never be if greedy ISPs keep trying to wring as much money as possible out of their customers until they start collecting and selling the bone marrow before moving to the next poor bastard.

Anything at 32FPS is not impressive. Period.

Also what happens when the almighty cloud goes offline? Because it will. Just like every other similar service and DRM system has and will again.

And one more thing MS. Once you guys decide the cloud is not profitable any more will the games using it still work? Or will you simply eff everyone over just like you did with GFWL.

And how far was the 'all powerful cloud' servers for this little tech demo?

In the next room? Or even in another building close by? gasp!

Yeah, cloud computing for gaming is a pile of BS. Not only do you pray that those running the servers don't drop your favorite game it also introduces two additional weak links in playing, the quality of your internet connection and the servers themselves.

And MS can't even control one of those links rendering you vulnerable two different corporations to decide whether you can play or not.

...Ok. Now distribute that to millions of consoles across the world (Xbox customers exist outside the U.S. too) over varying internet connections with minimal latency and I'll be mildly impressed.

Then of course we'll realize we're back to an always-online requirement.

Was the cost of these servers, the infrastructure required to support them and the bandwidth they'll require that much lower than, oh I don't know, building a more powerful machine from the get-go?

Also, you're still pushing shooters on controllers so fuck your Xbox and its exclusive horseshit.

Let's just assume this works how MS claims it does (even if it is hard to believe ^^) how is this any more significant or efficient to "gamers" as let's say, just streaming the game completely?

I mean, developers have had trouble getting the maximum out of multicores or even just multi GPU systems. Now they claim they can not only achieve that, but do it through the cloud... Come on MS as much as I hate you, sticking to this idea is a little pathetic. Maybe in a decade or two this is interesting, but for now you should try to impress with games on your hardware, not some vague promises of a feature that will not be technically feasable for a long while.

Any calculation that needs to be transmitted, calculated and then transmitted back, in real time without lag, for millions of gamers playing simultanously is beyond the current infrastructure - and I doubt it would even be cost effective.

I am sure MS does not intend to use this technology for games, maybe run a paid beta abusing X1 owners to test it out. They want to use that for their main OS's for calculating business software, making Windows even less secure for businesses as it is even now.

But let's wait and see, maby they do the impossible and we will all be very surprised :)

Anyone watch the entire presentation? Wondering if they used the Titanfall bot AI as an example of "current real world application" and how they spun that turd.

As interesting as breakable physics demos are, it's been proven time and time again that people won't actually care until the chunks are capable of breaking each other. For instance, BF4's Shanghai skyscraper is a scripted event where destroying the supports causes it to buckle in an effectively 9-11 itself. The reason it is scripted is because if it was left up to the standard physics, the falling tower would land on its side completely intact. Current physics demos are only cool looking when outside forces exert pressure. They account for gravity, but not mass or Newton's Third Law: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. (this could simply be because developers would then be required to make structurally sound buildings, and hiring an architect is expensive)

fix-the-spade:
I think Microsoft are straight up BS-ing to begin with, but even if they aren't the number of people who can afford the bandwidth to use this properly is catastrophically low and with US ISP's in particular trying to force moves to capped contracts it's unlikely to get any higher in the next few years.

I really can't see how Microsoft isn't bullshitting either. There's no way these calculations can be done in real time on the cloud and sent to the console for starters. It's just literally impossible with internet latency. So if you're going to do anything on the cloud and send it to the console, it's probably going to be some pre-scripted junk that everyone's seen a thousand times already and isn't really that hard to do on the actual console. And if, through some miracle, they actually could send calculations back and forth then what the hell is the cloud going to do? Prepare the calculations for every possible way a building could collapse or be blown apart and just send the correct one to the console when it's decided which is needed? The amount of power required to do that for how little benefit you'll get is just plain stupid.

And all of that is before taking bandwidth into account or, as others have already pointed out, the fact that once the cloud servers are shut down (and we all know they will be) you will never be able to play that game again. Not even in single player mode.

Even if this stuff is feasible, which is highly doubtful at the moment, it's a non-starter. Why pay for a game that you won't be able to use in 5-10 years in any capacity. It's one thing if it's a multiplayer only title and you know this going in. But that's probably not going to be the case here.

erbi79:
Let's just assume this works how MS claims it does (even if it is hard to believe ^^) how is this any more significant or efficient to "gamers" as let's say, just streaming the game completely?

I mean, developers have had trouble getting the maximum out of multicores or even just multi GPU systems. Now they claim they can not only achieve that, but do it through the cloud... Come on MS as much as I hate you, sticking to this idea is a little pathetic. Maybe in a decade or two this is interesting, but for now you should try to impress with games on your hardware, not some vague promises of a feature that will not be technically feasable for a long while.

Any calculation that needs to be transmitted, calculated and then transmitted back, in real time without lag, for millions of gamers playing simultanously is beyond the current infrastructure - and I doubt it would even be cost effective.

I am sure MS does not intend to use this technology for games, maybe run a paid beta abusing X1 owners to test it out. They want to use that for their main OS's for calculating business software, making Windows even less secure for businesses as it is even now.

But let's wait and see, maby they do the impossible and we will all be very surprised :)

It's beyond technology period...see.. this is the thing with gaming. If your graphics are being rendered over the net well good luck playing the new street fighter game because brutha if someone on your street desides to start streaming netflix ... you will be a punching bag.

IT's a sweet concept yeah but in reality it's impractical and detrimental to the consumer... ofh for the company it's like a golden egg...you get to charge them for the console, and charge them for the game and charge them for the srvice for rendering the game on the console.. that's triple-dipping.

There's enough lag when it's just positional data and states being sent across the net, imagine graphical calculations. Seriously MS> it would have been easier if you manufactured the Xbox with a discrete graphics card that could be removed and upgraded by the consumer. You could sell the upgrade cards.

Yeah, that's an enormous load of crap. Cloud computations mean delays of at least 10 milliseconds (if you have an optic fiber line running from your PC to a cloud server 1 meter away), while graphic calculations work on a scale of nanoseconds (1 millisecond = 1 000 000 nanoseconds). While cloud computing can handle running an AI for a whole crowd of NPCs, graphic calculations just aren't the same.

Hawkeye21:
Yeah, that's an enormous load of crap. Cloud computations mean delays of at least 10 milliseconds (if you have an optic fiber line running from your PC to a cloud server 1 meter away), while graphic calculations work on a scale of nanoseconds (1 millisecond = 1 000 000 nanoseconds). While cloud computing can handle running an AI for a whole crowd of NPCs, graphic calculations just aren't the same.

Even if you needed the cloud for ai, which you don't. I would think the lag in response time would be quite noticeable, I mean it needs to account for player actions so you would have a constant stream of back and forth data so you would end up with lag like you do in any multiplayer game.

Worgen:

Hawkeye21:
Yeah, that's an enormous load of crap. Cloud computations mean delays of at least 10 milliseconds (if you have an optic fiber line running from your PC to a cloud server 1 meter away), while graphic calculations work on a scale of nanoseconds (1 millisecond = 1 000 000 nanoseconds). While cloud computing can handle running an AI for a whole crowd of NPCs, graphic calculations just aren't the same.

Even if you needed the cloud for ai, which you don't. I would think the lag in response time would be quite noticeable, I mean it needs to account for player actions so you would have a constant stream of back and forth data so you would end up with lag like you do in any multiplayer game.

Yes, but in the case of AI, 10-50 milliseconds isn't even noticable (average reaction time is 200 ms). Simulation of graphic processes that require constant input from player (such as turning your head in FPS) are much more demanding and would feel very "floaty" even with 10 ms lag

Hawkeye21:

Worgen:

Hawkeye21:
Yeah, that's an enormous load of crap. Cloud computations mean delays of at least 10 milliseconds (if you have an optic fiber line running from your PC to a cloud server 1 meter away), while graphic calculations work on a scale of nanoseconds (1 millisecond = 1 000 000 nanoseconds). While cloud computing can handle running an AI for a whole crowd of NPCs, graphic calculations just aren't the same.

Even if you needed the cloud for ai, which you don't. I would think the lag in response time would be quite noticeable, I mean it needs to account for player actions so you would have a constant stream of back and forth data so you would end up with lag like you do in any multiplayer game.

Yes, but in the case of AI, 10-50 milliseconds isn't even noticable (average reaction time is 200 ms). Simulation of graphic processes that require constant input from player (such as turning your head in FPS) are much more demanding and would feel very "floaty" even with 10 ms lag

Running ai is one of the lightest weight things games do anymore, it probably takes more processing power to run a modern menu screen. The only conceivable way I can see an ai needing to be run on the cloud is if it was a form of drm.

Sooooo... they've invented dedicated servers? Welcome to 1996, console players.
Let's hope at least that this is the beginning of the end for that P2P multiplayer garbage.

Ah yes, the rebranding of the always online requirement is coming along nicely.

I even made up a drinking game, take a shot every time they say "high end computer" without specifying the specs, or mention "The Cloud" like it's some mystical thing. All in all, not too impressed. =/

Ha. You guys ready for the best part?

Demo on the first PC, was a different demo than the second.

Second has other buildings in the background, first didn't have those.

Who knows what else could be different, they're literally giving us nothing to go off.

If they repeat "power of the cloud" enough times people might start to believe it. This is the kind of delusional crap that is making Microsoft obsolete. We're moving towards more open systems and more control on the client side, and these idiots want to take all the control away from you and put it into this "cloud" that is supposedly more powerful than a black hole. But that's a fuckin' lie and they know it. This might impress some 15 year old Xbox players and soccer moms who want to pretend to be tech savvy, though. And that might be enough for Microsoft to stay afloat for a few more years.

This is nonsensical...
Of course a FULL blown datacenter could help out greatly - in theory, for one it should be packed with GPU's and not just CPU's- but MS is NEVER EVER going to just give away the computing capability PER XBOX of "multiple high end gaming PC's" as they state it in this clip.

How is this economical for them? Datacenters use massive amounts of power, and the processing capabilities could be sold (and ARE) instead. I guess in 5 years when XBONER is incapable of producing enough texels and polygons to compete this might be a small crutch for some selected AAA (first party!) games. But beyond that, this has no businessmodel whatsoever except brag about it in Marketing BS

Kenjitsuka:
This is nonsensical...
Of course a FULL blown datacenter could help out greatly - in theory, for one it should be packed with GPU's and not just CPU's- but MS is NEVER EVER going to just give away the computing capability PER XBOX of "multiple high end gaming PC's" as they state it in this clip.

How is this economical for them? Datacenters use massive amounts of power, and the processing capabilities could be sold (and ARE) instead. I guess in 5 years when XBONER is incapable of producing enough texels and polygons to compete this might be a small crutch for some selected AAA (first party!) games. But beyond that, this has no businessmodel whatsoever except brag about it in Marketing BS

I believe the original idea was that they would have had hundreds of thousands of 'FREE' GPU and CPUs at their disposal in the shape of unused Xbox Ones lying on standby in people's homes, ready to act as 'the cloud'. Obviously this was completely idiotic in the real world, so it was canned pretty quickly. They still haven't released any details about how they are going to acquire the hardware to fill that gap, and if the problems with the "Azure cloud" in South Africa leading to them cancelling Titanfall altogether are anything to go by, they better have some pretty damn infallible systems planned if this is going to be anything other than the whitest of white elephants.

So Microsoft has come out and actually gone into depth onto their whole "cloud" BS. And people still aren't impressed.

To me it looked rather impressive, but since people think it'll require having a super-internet connection (and mine struggles at loading Steam browser pages) this gets a giant "meh, not for me".

I'm not tech expert, but I'm pretty sure it's FAR easier to calculate stuff happening OFF screen than on. That "demo" is far from convincing.

Here, let me add my two cents!

image

Also, I highly doubt blowing up a building into smaller and smaller chunks is an "experience gamers have never had before"....

TiberiusEsuriens:
As interesting as breakable physics demos are, it's been proven time and time again that people won't actually care until the chunks are capable of breaking each other. For instance, BF4's Shanghai skyscraper is a scripted event where destroying the supports causes it to buckle in an effectively 9-11 itself. The reason it is scripted is because if it was left up to the standard physics, the falling tower would land on its side completely intact. Current physics demos are only cool looking when outside forces exert pressure. They account for gravity, but not mass or Newton's Third Law: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. (this could simply be because developers would then be required to make structurally sound buildings, and hiring an architect is expensive)

Actually you'd need an engineering tech, so the cost wouldn't be too bad in that regard also, I'm a Red Seal carpenter and I could design a lot of building in a game that won't fall down (That said I won't try building a skyscraper in real life) As you don't have to account for how for the thousands of details or wind that sort of thing. If you look at I think it was Red Faction Guerrilla. Not sure if that is the right game, but they actually did build real physical into that game, I remember them talking about how their designers had to work with engineers to keep the buildings from falling down. I think right now the costs are too high and there is too little experience with this type of systems in games. I do hope it does happen soon as it's really cool.

On main topic, I call BS on this I don't think MS actually pulled off much here. I'm simply not interested in Cloud gaming, I want my own system with it's own power to do the work for me.

32 FPS.
1/32 = 31ms latency limit.
That's unreliable even on a local cable connection in my region, outright impossible on anything less.

32 FPS is not that bad, but neither that great; passable by previous gen console standards.

So no, I'm not impressed, considering the number of hoops the system has to jump through in order to achieve this.
It just seems like bootstrapping for a nominal effect, not anything that will "revolutionize" gaming.

The problem is that PS4 can also take advantage of the "cloud" just as well; the structure isn't stopping it. If Sony felt like it, and if this is a real thing even, they could too use the cloud.

Oh look they managed to connect some PC's together, you're so cute Microsoft.

I wonder who's gonna pay for this shit, because I'm sure as hell not going to.

Also, good luck getting this bullshit to work in America, or any other country/nation that has shitty Internet.

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