Steam Greenlight Failure Leads Indie Dev To Torrent His Own Game

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albino boo:

Ultratwinkie:

Funny story. A lot of the trash is voted in.

Basically any _____ simulator gets voted in. Zombeer got voted in. Guise of the wolf got voted in. Castle Miner Z got voted in. Day One Garry's incident. Rekoil got voted in.

All the big name failures that isn't War Z got voted in.

Steam's QA is basically a bunch of people voting. and greenlight voters are as awful as real voters. Steam lets the masses run steam, and the masses are way too naive and way too willing to spend money on promises.

Greenlight is so swamped with mobile gaming trash no one bothers to get to the good games. Publishers rather put out their old backlogs than support unknown indies. Even the old backlog gets voted in because people want it.

I have stopped browsing greenlight entirely. There is just so much trash.

Err guess what its the masses that buy the games. Those pesky masses won't spend money on things they don't like so letting them vote is pretty good indicator of what will sell.

masses vote for garbage.
masses buy garbage.
masses blame steam for letting them buy garbage they wanted.

one of these things is not like the other. one of these things is an awful idea.

and the fact steam is flooded with garbage shows that mob democracy is awful.

Ultratwinkie:

albino boo:

Ultratwinkie:

Funny story. A lot of the trash is voted in.

Basically any _____ simulator gets voted in. Zombeer got voted in. Guise of the wolf got voted in. Castle Miner Z got voted in. Day One Garry's incident. Rekoil got voted in.

All the big name failures that isn't War Z got voted in.

Steam's QA is basically a bunch of people voting. and greenlight voters are as awful as real voters. Steam lets the masses run steam, and the masses are way too naive and way too willing to spend money on promises.

Greenlight is so swamped with mobile gaming trash no one bothers to get to the good games. Publishers rather put out their old backlogs than support unknown indies. Even the old backlog gets voted in because people want it.

I have stopped browsing greenlight entirely. There is just so much trash.

Err guess what its the masses that buy the games. Those pesky masses won't spend money on things they don't like so letting them vote is pretty good indicator of what will sell.

So people are only allowed to spend their own money on what you think is good. What makes your opinion better than everyones elses?

masses vote for garbage.
masses buy garbage.
masses blame steam for letting them buy garbage they wanted.

one of these things is not like the other. one of these things is an awful idea.

and the fact steam is flooded with garbage shows that mob democracy is awful.

What makes you opinion better than everyone elses? Why are you so important?

Greenlight is for sure a failure but I don't really think this game not getting on greenlight is evidence of that. Maybe the game just isn't that great or people just are not interested in it? Granted a spot on steam would greatly boost the sales and exposure of even the worst games but if the game sucks anyways no loss to the world. Really I had never even heard of this game until now so he obviously didn't do a very good job on raising awareness for his game. So yes greenlight is completely broken and really shit games from developers who don't have to submit to greenlight slip through the cracks but some personal responsibility needs to be taken here. If nobody even knows your game exists how can you expect for them to vote for it on greenlight?

Ninjamedic:

albino boo:

Utter nonsense.

And a howdy to you too.

Its up the people putting their games on to greenlight to market it. Steam is not going to do that for them and if you can't do your own marketing as an indie you are never going to make it whatever platform you use.

Fair enough then, though I have to wonder why you'd use Greenlight then. I just read this on Valve's page on it:

Who should submit their games to Steam Greenlight? Is there another way to submit my game to Steam?

Steam Greenlight has replaced our previous submission process. Any developer or publisher who is new to Steam and interested in submitting their game to the platform should submit their game through Steam Greenlight.

So there is no real benefit for Greenlight to developers then, it's just another set of hoops for indies to go through.

It's *supposed* to be quality assurance. Previously, they had an *actual* QA process that new devs went through, but a few indie devs with more pull than Steam expected got rejected and bitched to their fanbases, and based on the drama from that, Steam said "You want to sift through the garbage instead of us? Fine. Steam Greenlight."

Though the fact that steam, as far as I can tell, runs literally NO QA on established publishers and devs is a little bullshit, I'll admit.

Ninjamedic:

albino boo:

there is no benefit on being on the largest pc game retailer then?

Well according to every news piece we've heard about Greenlight, I guess?

VAlve is not the publisher of the game but just a retailer and if you want them do your marketing for you then you sing a publishing deal. Business do not do thins out the kindness of their hearts, if you cant drum up enough people to vote for you then you wont drum up sales either.

Let me go back to my main point here: "the consequences of giving one group a near monopoly and control on an entire market, they can treat devs how they like without worry of consequence"

I'm not exactly seeing a counter to that, I'm not disputing that Valve aren't obligated to do marketing. I'm just pointing out how stupid Greenlight is.

To be fair, greenlight is only as stupid as the gamer community makes it. The biggest mistake made with greenlight was Valve respecting the decision making powers of the gamer community.

alj:
So any Joe publisher can put utter trash on the store from 15 years ago that does not even work, yet a dev with a new game no matter how unknown it is cannot get onto the store when his game works and its brand new.

Crazy

Honestly at the moment steam is worse than origin.

Uhm, chances are if it was made 15 years ago and sold well 15 years ago, it's a game that has a proven market.

This guy released it on Desura, Humble and other stores without much success.. so perhaps this is an issue of game quality. Greenlight is a vote driven process, if no one votes, well.. maybe you need a better sales pitch.

Instead he's basically blaming Steam...maybe, just maybe... the fault may be with the game.

albino boo:

Ultratwinkie:

albino boo:

Err guess what its the masses that buy the games. Those pesky masses won't spend money on things they don't like so letting them vote is pretty good indicator of what will sell.

So people are only allowed to spend their own money on what you think is good. What makes your opinion better than everyones elses?

masses vote for garbage.
masses buy garbage.
masses blame steam for letting them buy garbage they wanted.

one of these things is not like the other. one of these things is an awful idea.

and the fact steam is flooded with garbage shows that mob democracy is awful.

What makes you opinion better than everyone elses? Why are you so important?

Not me, but actual objective quality control.

Look me in the eye and say guise of the wolf should be sold to unsuspecting people. Or rekoil. Or War Z. Or day One Garry's incident. Or that warhammer scamware game. The list goes on.

All the big controversies came from people voting on promises from scammers.

You might think they are under rated games, but they are not. They are unfinished scamware.

and then when they buy the scamware they voted for, they blame valve for letting them buy scamware. It is unfair to valve, and its ruining the store because all you need is vague promises of something cool.

People spend their money on stupid shit and scams all the time. People are not infallible. People get scammed. That doesn't mean everything they spend money on should be sold in the store. It is patently clear that direct democracy doesn't work because scammers get through regularly.

The main criticism of steam is that anyone gets on there, even the scammers. and scammers now flood the main page.

and the evidence of that is well documented. Its not an opinion anymore but true fact. Scams are flooding steam by the dozens, and greenlight is one of the major contributors.

Sarge034:

Andy Chalk:
Snip

Did you really just provide a direct link to pirate bay? I've seen regular users banned for less so stay classy Escapist.

OT- The question must be asked but is the game shit? Everyone is making the dev out to be the victim here but what if the game didn't get green lit because it was bad and/or no one wanted it?

The creator and owner of the game put the torrent up and gave permission to take it. Torrenting does not imply illegal downloading.

Micalas:

Sarge034:
Did you really just provide a direct link to pirate bay? I've seen regular users banned for less so stay classy Escapist.

OT- The question must be asked but is the game shit? Everyone is making the dev out to be the victim here but what if the game didn't get green lit because it was bad and/or no one wanted it?

The creator and owner of the game put the torrent up and gave permission to take it. Torrenting does not imply illegal downloading.

And your point is?

"Use Our Forums Appropriately

[...] Similarly, posts including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community, which should generally be kept to a PG-13 standard. An example of these are:

>Piracy - Do not link sites for piracy, nor advocate or admit to piracy."
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct

Kahani:
It does nothing of the sort. The entire point of Greenlight is that it is a way to choose which games get sold on Steam and which don't.

It's not that his game didn't get chosen that's the problem. It's the sheer randomness of the process, as illustrated by the standing rejection of his game while crap like Residue and a pre-release version of Turbo Dismount make the cut. And it's not the only one: Bret Airborne is another excellent game (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/25/born-three-bret-airborne-is-an-airship-match-3-rpg/) that's languished on Greenlight for more than a year. There just no sense to the system.

Sarge034:
>Piracy - Do not link sites for piracy, nor advocate or admit to piracy."
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct

It's not piracy if the creator gives it away.

Andy Chalk:

Sarge034:
>Piracy - Do not link sites for piracy, nor advocate or admit to piracy."
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct

It's not piracy if the creator gives it away.

I do believe you linked to the pirate bay and last time I checked the pirate bay was a website devoted to piracy. As I said, no such distinction would be made for a normal user. Stay classy.

Apart from the troubles of getting anything greenlit, this would be more fun to play as an actual boardgame. It's not shit, it's just very niche and somewhat unsatisfying because there's nothing dynamic about it. Things you pick up, are randomly placed and the board plays in very specific ways that you can count your way out of.

It's a good PR stunt and it gets people to talk about Greenlight, so it's a small victory.

Andy Chalk:

It's not piracy if the creator gives it away.

Let's be fair here, people get warnings seemingly at random for just talking about the site. I don't dare talk about the politics of it, let alone mention the name on this site.

It's a scary thought, especially when you consider that dogs dinners like 'guise of the wolf's and 'garrys incident' got through.

Reminds me of an old Churchill quote. "the best argument against democracy, is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter."

People, they don't know what they want. And they certainly can't tell what's going to actually be good from a heavily edited trailer.

Greenplight is and always was, a terrible idea.

Sarge034:

Andy Chalk:

Sarge034:
>Piracy - Do not link sites for piracy, nor advocate or admit to piracy."
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct

It's not piracy if the creator gives it away.

I do believe you linked to the pirate bay and last time I checked the pirate bay was a website devoted to piracy. As I said, no such distinction would be made for a normal user. Stay classy.

People with power making rules for everyone to follow and then not following them themselves?

Say it aint' so!

Goddamn double post.

Yeah, I'm gonna go with everyone else and say that I have never, ever heard of this game. Not to mention, I went on reddit and the developer himself said:
No Let's Players wanted to play this because he would say it's a turn based game where you rotate the floor and get the gems. He said everyone just went "meh" and never learnt the true gem that the game was.

No, it just sounds like you designed a shitty mobile game, didn't market it AT ALL and had exactly one game mechanic: rotate.

This is where Greenlight works - something that no-one would buy or want wasn't published on steam.

Okay, you guys win - The Pirate Bay link is gone. Linking directly to the file wasn't an issue in terms of "promoting piracy," but I forgot that some of the ads on that site are a liiiiiitle bit sketchy.

Anyway, back to the actual conversation: No matter what you may think about an obscure little game from a dev you've never heard of, the fact is that there are plenty of them on Steam already, and plenty more getting approval with every new round. And that's the point: Not that his game isn't selling, but that the Greenlight service is overly capricious, almost to the point of randomness, which can be a serious problem for indie devs given Steam's absolute dominance of the digital market. Even Valve has acknowledged that Greenlight is becoming increasingly unworkable and needs to go - that's a tough position to argue against.

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