Analyst: PC Has Surpassed Console in Terms of Revenue

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Zipa:
Well there was a period there before Valve came out with Steam when PC was getting ignored the hell out of in favour of console gaming and was really on the ropes for awhile.

That's an odd assertion to make, the years leading up to Steam and the couple after brought us the Battlefield series, Far Cry, STALKER, FEAR, Unreal2 (and the various UT games), Call of Duty, Enemy Territory, Planetside, World of Warcraft and a bunch of other stuff all released exclusively for PC.

The whole business of PC gaming getting ignored became egregious around 2007-8 when the console brigade were finally getting properly on board with online play and the major publishers were declaring PC releases surplus to requirements, even then other people filled the gap (or more specifically Valve drove a giant bulldozer through it with the Orange Box and Blizzard hit unprecedented sub numbers for WoW).

PC gaming has never been 'on the ropes' in my lifetime, the loud voices declaring it's death (or ill health) usually have an agenda that can be read as sell more games consoles by spreading FUD.

Raziel:

I know steam makes a lot of money. But I want to know is whether pc gamers actually PAY enough money to support AAA development?

being the sucker I am I got Titanfall on launch...there were plenty of other players..others paying full a lunch day price

if people reeeeaally want a game theres a good chance they'll buy it on launch (hype aside games being good helps too) not EVERY gamer waits for a steam sale..in fact maybe steams sales help because they pay something for a game they might not have otherwise bought at all (but thats just pure speculation on my part)

If pc truly does kill of the consoles I'm worried that might be the end of AAA games.

1. that depends on what you define as AAA

2. would that really be such a bad thing? I mean don't get me wrong, games like Bioshock Infinie are the epitome of mainstream games....but thats the problem, games on the level of Bioshock infinite or [insert whatever big budget game you like here] are becoming less and less in place of ANOTHER Assasins creed game, Another COD, Another franchise like Dead Space going from a unique and cool Idea to needs more multiplayer! kids love multiplayer! no one plays single player....oh how do I know that? well I just decided it was a thing... and another Watch Dgos which looks cool but then I watch the trailer argle bargle angry white man MUH DAUGHTER! revenge! and I just think...uuuggghhh

I wonder if the end of net neutrality and comcast merger will change the whole situation. When merged comcast/time warner will have like 78% of the US customer base. Charging higher prices for internet speed and capping usage could heavily impact digital sales. Especially as next gen games are already 37 gigs + patches that are gigs too. And they are just going to get bigger.

thats an interesting point..being in Australia I was plauged by bad internet which made PC gaming downright impossible, I can't even fathom what it was like before I was able to get unlimited (it sucked..like reeeeaaally sucked) if people all of a sudden had to deal with that I would nod and say "yeah....it sucks I know...welcome to crappy world"

008Zulu:

Zachary Amaranth:
Hopefully we can get a madman in a box to come along and wipe both sides out, because the war is absurd.

You mean like Gabe and the Steambox?

That would be the equivalent of The Master winning the Time War.

But sure. Let's go with that, I guess.

Anybody else sad because this basically states that micro-transactions and monthly payments are keeping PC strong? Do we still hate micro-transactions and monthly payments if that's the only edge over consoles? I have mixed feelings about that.

One other thought... With the number of games on PC vs the number of games on consoles... Even if it's only a 10:1 ratio (and i'm sure it's much, much higher), this still kind of means that console gamers are the more desirable demographic.

Nimzabaat:
Anybody else sad because this basically states that micro-transactions and monthly payments are keeping PC strong? Do we still hate micro-transactions and monthly payments if that's the only edge over consoles? I have mixed feelings about that.

One other thought... With the number of games on PC vs the number of games on consoles... Even if it's only a 10:1 ratio (and i'm sure it's much, much higher), this still kind of means that console gamers are the more desirable demographic.

Don't jump on the "hate bandwagon" herd mentality. Just because some games do micro-transactions and monthly payments badly, does not mean that they all do them badly. In fact, most of the games specifically mentioned in the article - DoTA 2, League of Legends, World of Warcraft - make very good, admirable use of these systems.

Raziel:

That doesn't seem right. Only $1.32 per player? Yeah lol has like 58.5 million players but thats not much money. Even if it were a 100 million players thats only $132 million? GTA5 made a BILLION BEFORE it came out on pc!

I would not trust those numbers simply for the fact that it contains Valve games. Valve does not release such things in a way that'll allow a statistical interpretation.

And aside that: Those are average spendings over 12 months. While GTA V is all dandy and made a lot of dough in a few months the sales are sacking down. Hard. While a full price game will make more money over a short period of time f2p games rather settle on a lesser $/month and build up a base of consumers that are paying regulary.

But I want to know is whether pc gamers actually PAY enough money to support AAA development? If pc truly does kill of the consoles I'm worried that might be the end of AAA games.

With AAA titles topping steam sale charts for similiar amount of time as comnsole games without any discounts: Why would you doubt that? Enough Pc gamer buy games at launch, Skyrim was one of the top played games for weeks and it took quite some time for the numbers to fall.

What sales do is actually make people consider picking it up who did not buy it to begin with. And unlike with shitstores like GameStop (I really, really, really don't like this store. It killed smaller dedicated stores in my area even though it had higher prices) the publishers make money off those sales. Even outside of big sales just a 30% discount on a big title (working of Steam prices which are already overpriced as fuck) will propell an older game into top sales positions. This does not happen with AAA titles on consoles. Once they are done with the initial sales burst they are fucking done.

and all this does is remind me of how much I want to slap MS and Sony, reminding them to STOP TRYING TO BE PCs. You're never going to beat them in power or functionality, but you CAN beat in ease of use and accessibility. It's time to start doing that instead of trying to emulate them and fail at it.

Steven Bogos:

Nimzabaat:
Anybody else sad because this basically states that micro-transactions and monthly payments are keeping PC strong? Do we still hate micro-transactions and monthly payments if that's the only edge over consoles? I have mixed feelings about that.

One other thought... With the number of games on PC vs the number of games on consoles... Even if it's only a 10:1 ratio (and i'm sure it's much, much higher), this still kind of means that console gamers are the more desirable demographic.

Don't jump on the "hate bandwagon" herd mentality. Just because some games do micro-transactions and monthly payments badly, does not mean that they all do them badly. In fact, most of the games specifically mentioned in the article - DoTA 2, League of Legends, World of Warcraft - make very good, admirable use of these systems.

Don't worry about me, i'm not on anyone's wagon. I understand the reasons behind paywalls and, to some extent, the mentality on both sides of those walls. It's just that we had an article only a couple days ago about Square Enix saying micro-transactions are here to stay and it got a fair bit of hate. Now opinion seems to have shifted the other way, even if people don't seem to realize it. :)

immortalfrieza:
Gee, and PCs are the ones where they all say digital piracy is running rampant and costing sales while consoles are very difficult to pirate and will often wreck the console if one tries, and yet PCs are STILL making more money than consoles are.

Maybe, just maybe this indicates that those people that are blaming piracy for everything wrong with the video game industry and using it to justify their blatantly exploitative and useless business practices are talking out of their rear ends, just a slight possibility.

The thing is, used games sales make a much bigger monetary dent on the industry than piracy does. That's where all the pushing for digital in the last few years comes from.

Retailers intentionally block new game sales because reselling used copies makes them a ton more money.

You practically have to get into a fistfight with a store employee to get a new copy of a game that's been out for a few weeks...

This has been the thing for a while, consoles appeal was like the PS2....slap a game in and play no worries just enjoy.
Now consoles have all the problems of a PC without the versatility ...or mega sales, so the competition is now between PC and less open PC.

Also the price of seemingly simple things have gone up drastically for console, I was going to pick up a PS4 or Xbone controller for my PC till I found out they were 60 dollars each, that's insane. For PS3 it was 30-50 PS2 was 20-25 I don't get this batshit price hike especially for the Xbone controller vs 360 where, beyond the trigger vibration there's not a lot of difference.

TheKasp:
I would not trust those numbers simply for the fact that it contains Valve games. Valve does not release such things in a way that'll allow a statistical interpretation.

And aside that: Those are average spendings over 12 months. While GTA V is all dandy and made a lot of dough in a few months the sales are sacking down. Hard. While a full price game will make more money over a short period of time f2p games rather settle on a lesser $/month and build up a base of consumers that are paying regulary.

Gta5 sales might be sagging now. But I'm pretty sure it made more at this point than LoL has made total ever if its got 58.5 million players paying $1.32 a year.

And things like COD that come out every year might be even more profitable than gta if taken as a series.

TheKasp:
With AAA titles topping steam sale charts for similar amount of time as console games without any discounts: Why would you doubt that? Enough Pc gamer buy games at launch, Skyrim was one of the top played games for weeks and it took quite some time for the numbers to fall.

What sales do is actually make people consider picking it up who did not buy it to begin with. And unlike with shitstores like GameStop (I really, really, really don't like this store. It killed smaller dedicated stores in my area even though it had higher prices) the publishers make money off those sales. Even outside of big sales just a 30% discount on a big title (working of Steam prices which are already overpriced as fuck) will propell an older game into top sales positions. This does not happen with AAA titles on consoles. Once they are done with the initial sales burst they are fucking done.

I have no idea how many need to sell to top steam charts compared to the consoles. Half, quarter, tenth?

Console games also get plenty of price drops. Stores start marking that stuff down fast. Many series drop price within a month of launch. And they continue going down in price pretty steady. And many games get a game of the year, or greatest hits kind of thing that also give them another boost in sales.

Snotnarok:
Also the price of seemingly simple things have gone up drastically for console, I was going to pick up a PS4 or Xbone controller for my PC till I found out they were 60 dollars each, that's insane. For PS3 it was 30-50 PS2 was 20-25 I don't get this batshit price hike especially for the Xbone controller vs 360 where, beyond the trigger vibration there's not a lot of difference.

The ps3 and 360 controllers were also $60 for almost the entire gen. They went down with the new gen coming out. Even now they are still over $40 unless on sale.

You know what else is a bonus to PC that consoles struggle with?

Backwards Compatibility.

Raziel:

NuclearKangaroo:
i made a thread about the average money spent by players in some of the most popular F2P games

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.846989-Study-rounds-up-top-ten-of-average-revenue-per-user-in-F2P-games-WoT-first-LoL-last?

now i have no idea how may untold millions play LoL, but multiply that number by 1.32 and you can get an idea of how much money Riot has made, just last year

That doesn't seem right. Only $1.32 per player? Yeah lol has like 58.5 million players but thats not much money. Even if it were a 100 million players thats only $132 million? GTA5 made a BILLION BEFORE it came out on pc!

This is why I want to know how and what people are counting. Another sight says the gaming industry in 2012 was worth $68 billion a year and that the pc section was 18.6 billion in 2011. That sites info is exactly the opposite of this article.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_industry

Frankly I find all the reports hard to believe. I doubt anyone really knows.

the thing is, thats just what Riot made LAST YEAR, LoL is older than that, and its not the only game on PC, in fact almost every single title in that list is a best seller (if F2P could sell) on PC

just because it does not generate as much revenue as the biggest selling game in the history of mankind doesnt mean it doesnt sell well, dont be ridiculous

also 77 million per year is very much a ton of money

RealRT:
*looks at his Steam library of 228 games and countless disks around the desk*
*looks back at the PS3 with 5 games on disks and seven digital*

Why am I not surprised?

I'm curious, how much have you spent on steam games? 228 is a lot of games. But if you bought most of them on steam sales it could be surprisingly little revenue.[/quote]

except not, because its been proven time and time again that stea sales increase the revenue of games

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174587/Steam_sales_How_deep_discounts_really_affect_your_games.php

some people dont have enough cash to buy all their games at 60 bucks each, some people might be interested in a game but not enough to pay full price, steam sales are able to get these eople on board, its gotten to the point where on average, 26% of the games people buy, are never played

RealRT:
Personally I have like 30 steam games or so but its all humble bundle and sales. It would surprise me if it totaled more than like $60. And about 5 of them have ever been played. I own 3 recent disk pc games for about $110 more.

Where as I own between 80-100 last gen console disks and several more digital I bought, plus all the ps+ ones I get with a subscription. 90% or more I've played and beat. Most were bought new at release so I paid a few thousand for them.

I know steam makes a lot of money. But I want to know is whether pc gamers actually PAY enough money to support AAA development? If pc truly does kill of the consoles I'm worried that might be the end of AAA games.

A) developers get a 70% ct out of eact digital sale, this compared to the usual 20% cut they get from physical copies, DD can support the sales of any kind of video game much better than physical

B) are seriously worried for an industry that has shot itself in the foot over and over again and is now going for their own head? are you sorry for an industry that throws away money on miserable engine upgrades, hollywood actors, etc, and atleast in the case of tomb raider, takes an entire year to make a profit on a well known and beloved brand? while the developers of rogue legacy, a 2D indie game in which they worked on for 4 years made a profit within the first hour

and not only they hate themselves, they hate you, the customers more, pre-order bonuses, season passes, online passes, DLC on the disk, unfinished games sold at full price and being advertized as complete, the butchering of well entablished franchises in order to "appeal to a larger audience", the anualization of franchises, etc

and lets not forget all the beloved developers sacrificed to the all powerful AAA god, origin, free radical, pandemic, westwood, bullfrog, factor 5, etc

to me its quite obvious the AAA industry isnt lead by people who know and understand video games, but a bunch of suits with extreme tunnel vision, they dont care about their devs, they dont care about the artistic merit of video games, they dont care about their franchises, they dont care about the confort of their customers

they are willing to sacrifice all of those things for money

I called it and i'm rather sad about that. I feared that consoles would get stuffed so much stuff into them that they'll resemble PCs more and more so that you might end up not bothering with consoles.

I did not foresee console manufacturers fucking up so amazingly bad.

Raziel:
Gta5 sales might be sagging now. But I'm pretty sure it made more at this point than LoL has made total ever if its got 58.5 million players paying $1.32 a year.

And things like COD that come out every year might be even more profitable than gta if taken as a series.

Keep in mind that development costs of a MOBA are pocket change compared to those of a triple A sandbox game like GTA5.

Also, LoL apparently made 620 million in 2013. I really doubt 1.32$ is per year, per month maybe?

Well, this report lines up with another one I read about a week back from Ars Technica... There they also made the statement that the PC game market beat out all the current consoles combined currently.
That can only be a good thing - considering we're talking growth here and not failure! :)

... Otherwise, I kinda have to agree with some of the comments / arguments being made about AAA development and THE NOBS THAT SEEM TO BE IN CHARGE of it!!! :-D
Would be nice to see THAT change positively sometime!

Zac Jovanovic:

Raziel:
Gta5 sales might be sagging now. But I'm pretty sure it made more at this point than LoL has made total ever if its got 58.5 million players paying $1.32 a year.

And things like COD that come out every year might be even more profitable than gta if taken as a series.

Keep in mind that development costs of a MOBA are pocket change compared to those of a triple A sandbox game like GTA5.

Also, LoL apparently made 620 million in 2013. I really doubt 1.32$ is per year, per month maybe?

the 1.32 statistic must be right, but then the number of people playing LoL must be reidiculously high, my own math gives me 460 million players, something must be wrong

Madman123456:
I called it and i'm rather sad about that. I feared that consoles would get stuffed so much stuff into them that they'll resemble PCs more and more so that you might end up not bothering with consoles.

I did not foresee console manufacturers fucking up so amazingly bad.

legends say one day console manufacturers saw the PS2 and said "this is too perfect, next time fuck it up a little"

immortalfrieza:
Maybe, just maybe this indicates that those people that are blaming piracy for everything wrong with the video game industry and using it to justify their blatantly exploitative and useless business practices are talking out of their rear ends, just a slight possibility.

They were/are talking out of their asses regardless; Consoles may not have much piracy, but they have a second-hand market where every copy is an actual guaranteed lost sale.

Looking over at my dusty 360 I can't say I'm surprised, I haven't switched it on in at least a month and I'm leaning more towards a 3DS then a PS4 (lol xbone). I'll still pick up a new console eventually when more games are released but for now it seems I'll be sticking to my PC.

Mr.Tea:

immortalfrieza:
Maybe, just maybe this indicates that those people that are blaming piracy for everything wrong with the video game industry and using it to justify their blatantly exploitative and useless business practices are talking out of their rear ends, just a slight possibility.

They were/are talking out of their asses regardless; Consoles may not have much piracy, but they have a second-hand market where every copy is an actual guaranteed lost sale.

What's ironic about this is that in this day and age there is more than enough avenues available to the video game industry to make actually buying games new instead of used the more attractive option. Putting in something akin to Steam for digital downloads on consoles with an abundance of sales and everything would probably help immensely for one.

NuclearKangaroo:

the 1.32 statistic must be right, but then the number of people playing LoL must be reidiculously high, my own math gives me 460 million players, something must be wrong

It fits if it's monthly. That's a bit shy of 40 million players, which sounds reasonable with 56 million created accounts.

NuclearKangaroo:

Raziel:
Frankly I find all the reports hard to believe. I doubt anyone really knows.

the thing is, thats just what Riot made LAST YEAR, LoL is older than that, and its not the only game on PC, in fact almost every single title in that list is a best seller (if F2P could sell) on PC

just because it does not generate as much revenue as the biggest selling game in the history of mankind doesnt mean it doesnt sell well, dont be ridiculous

also 77 million per year is very much a ton of money

It seems reasonable to compare one of the most successful pc games to one of the most successful console games.

But I am positive now none of these reports are right. Look how many conflicting stats are being sighted for a single game let alone the whole industry.

NuclearKangaroo:
except not, because its been proven time and time again that stea sales increase the revenue of games

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174587/Steam_sales_How_deep_discounts_really_affect_your_games.php

some people dont have enough cash to buy all their games at 60 bucks each, some people might be interested in a game but not enough to pay full price, steam sales are able to get these eople on board, its gotten to the point where on average, 26% of the games people buy, are never played

It takes more than just being on a sale to do well. Apparently you also need to be a spotlight sale. Some indies don't drop prices at all unless they will be in a spotlight because they don't sell any extra.

And this high percent of games never played is a troubling statistic. That money is pure waste. I don't look forward to steam sales. I skip them because I know that I probably never play the games I buy.

NuclearKangaroo:
A) developers get a 70% ct out of eact digital sale, this compared to the usual 20% cut they get from physical copies, DD can support the sales of any kind of video game much better than physical

B) are seriously worried for an industry that has shot itself in the foot over and over again and is now going for their own head? are you sorry for an industry that throws away money on miserable engine upgrades, hollywood actors, etc, and atleast in the case of tomb raider, takes an entire year to make a profit on a well known and beloved brand? while the developers of rogue legacy, a 2D indie game in which they worked on for 4 years made a profit within the first hour

and not only they hate themselves, they hate you, the customers more, pre-order bonuses, season passes, online passes, DLC on the disk, unfinished games sold at full price and being advertized as complete, the butchering of well entablished franchises in order to "appeal to a larger audience", the anualization of franchises, etc

and lets not forget all the beloved developers sacrificed to the all powerful AAA god, origin, free radical, pandemic, westwood, bullfrog, factor 5, etc

to me its quite obvious the AAA industry isnt lead by people who know and understand video games, but a bunch of suits with extreme tunnel vision, they dont care about their devs, they dont care about the artistic merit of video games, they dont care about their franchises, they dont care about the confort of their customers

they are willing to sacrifice all of those things for money

a) I doubt thats right. Devs get 20% of the physical copy sales because the deals they have with the publisher. I HIGHLY doubt their percentage changes any when that same game is sold on steam. That contract is still in place.

Steam gives self publishing devs 70% sure. But CoD, Bioshock, etc.... are not self published. And devs cannot foot the bill to make those games themselves. Its a whole different thing for 3 people to make a game in 4 years during their time off than it is for 200 people to work on it full time for 3 years.

B) I'm not worried about the industry, those companies will simply switch to whatever is profitable. I'm worried about the GAMES. I love AAA games. They are almost the only games I care about at all. There are so few indies or f2p games I like that if AAA games go away I'll probably stop buying games.

fix-the-spade:

Zipa:
Well there was a period there before Valve came out with Steam when PC was getting ignored the hell out of in favour of console gaming and was really on the ropes for awhile.

That's an odd assertion to make, the years leading up to Steam and the couple after brought us the Battlefield series, Far Cry, STALKER, FEAR, Unreal2 (and the various UT games), Call of Duty, Enemy Territory, Planetside, World of Warcraft and a bunch of other stuff all released exclusively for PC.

The whole business of PC gaming getting ignored became egregious around 2007-8 when the console brigade were finally getting properly on board with online play and the major publishers were declaring PC releases surplus to requirements, even then other people filled the gap (or more specifically Valve drove a giant bulldozer through it with the Orange Box and Blizzard hit unprecedented sub numbers for WoW).

PC gaming has never been 'on the ropes' in my lifetime, the loud voices declaring it's death (or ill health) usually have an agenda that can be read as sell more games consoles by spreading FUD.

That's what I was thinking when I saw his quote response... Facepalmed so hard I knocked myself out.

Zipa:

marurder:
When EVER has a console been a (gaming) necessity!?

Well there was a period there before Valve came out with Steam when PC was getting ignored the hell out of in favour of console gaming and was really on the ropes for awhile.

It wasn't actually that Steam wasn't out, it was that steam was just for valve games and was awful. There was so little shelf space dedicated to PC gaming in stores it was really hard to get a game beyond ordering it online. Thankfully the MMO genre, and piracy really kept the userbase from shrinking much.

Raziel:

veloper:
Silly analyst.

Consoles have always been a luxury, even if a console is cheap.
PCs, not game PCs (though the difference is only a $100+ graphics card), have been necessity for many people for over a decade.

The only thing that's changed is that PC gaming has become less of a hassle over time and consoles have become more of a hassle.

Whats the hassle on the consoles thats not on pc?

An hour to download a 30 MB update from Sony's servers.

I wasn't exactly happy to ehar this, I like both, I don't like seeing another fail and get congratulated for doing so, but some people here will most likely act smug about it regardless.

The guy also said that somehow in the past PC's weren't a necessity yet consoles were and now it's reversed?, except PC's have always been needed, not for gaming but for every day important needs like work and actually managing other things like dams, power plants, other important shit etc, the guy lost his credibility with me when he stated that, that's never been true at all.

I've seen this pointless war going on for such a long time that it bears a striking resemblance to the Cybertronian wars of the Transformers, the endless war that was so pointless that it kept on going and in the end ravaged Cybertron to a point where neither side won and had to leave the planet.

The Intro scene to WFC seems pretty reminiscent of the PC vs consoles wars the past few decades, even with the two quotes from either side:

Optimus "Our tragic war has ravaged Cybertron".
Megatron "It is a necessary war, to return us to glory!"

Optimus "One shall stand".
Megatron "One shall fall!".

Raziel:

It seems reasonable to compare one of the most successful pc games to one of the most successful console games.

But I am positive now none of these reports are right. Look how many conflicting stats are being sighted for a single game let alone the whole industry.

thats stupid, it would be like, if someone told you 2+2=4 and another person told you 2+2=5, and you decided to believe none of them because the information is conflicting

LoL is not the only PC game and GTAV is not the only console game, the comparison accomplishes absolutely nothing

it would be like, if you tried to compare the overall physical fitness of both Canada and the USA by doing a competition between each country's best athlete

Raziel:

NuclearKangaroo:
except not, because its been proven time and time again that stea sales increase the revenue of games

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174587/Steam_sales_How_deep_discounts_really_affect_your_games.php

some people dont have enough cash to buy all their games at 60 bucks each, some people might be interested in a game but not enough to pay full price, steam sales are able to get these eople on board, its gotten to the point where on average, 26% of the games people buy, are never played

It takes more than just being on a sale to do well. Apparently you also need to be a spotlight sale. Some indies don't drop prices at all unless they will be in a spotlight because they don't sell any extra.

And this high percent of games never played is a troubling statistic. That money is pure waste. I don't look forward to steam sales. I skip them because I know that I probably never play the games I buy.

well make up your mind, first you say you fear PC might now be able to sustain enough sales to keep the AAA market afloat, now you complain because people buy too many games on PC?

Raziel:

NuclearKangaroo:
A) developers get a 70% ct out of eact digital sale, this compared to the usual 20% cut they get from physical copies, DD can support the sales of any kind of video game much better than physical

B) are seriously worried for an industry that has shot itself in the foot over and over again and is now going for their own head? are you sorry for an industry that throws away money on miserable engine upgrades, hollywood actors, etc, and atleast in the case of tomb raider, takes an entire year to make a profit on a well known and beloved brand? while the developers of rogue legacy, a 2D indie game in which they worked on for 4 years made a profit within the first hour

and not only they hate themselves, they hate you, the customers more, pre-order bonuses, season passes, online passes, DLC on the disk, unfinished games sold at full price and being advertized as complete, the butchering of well entablished franchises in order to "appeal to a larger audience", the anualization of franchises, etc

and lets not forget all the beloved developers sacrificed to the all powerful AAA god, origin, free radical, pandemic, westwood, bullfrog, factor 5, etc

to me its quite obvious the AAA industry isnt lead by people who know and understand video games, but a bunch of suits with extreme tunnel vision, they dont care about their devs, they dont care about the artistic merit of video games, they dont care about their franchises, they dont care about the confort of their customers

they are willing to sacrifice all of those things for money

a) I doubt thats right. Devs get 20% of the physical copy sales because the deals they have with the publisher. I HIGHLY doubt their percentage changes any when that same game is sold on steam. That contract is still in place.

Steam gives self publishing devs 70% sure. But CoD, Bioshock, etc.... are not self published. And devs cannot foot the bill to make those games themselves. Its a whole different thing for 3 people to make a game in 4 years during their time off than it is for 200 people to work on it full time for 3 years.

B) I'm not worried about the industry, those companies will simply switch to whatever is profitable. I'm worried about the GAMES. I love AAA games. They are almost the only games I care about at all. There are so few indies or f2p games I like that if AAA games go away I'll probably stop buying games.

A) we dont know what kind of contract publishers have with devs when it comes to digital sales, but its a fact manufactring and distribution make up most of the costs of physical distribution

http://kotaku.com/5479698/what-your-60-really-buys

now i dont see the devs in that chart so i assume their cut comes from the publisher cut, but as you can see, they get less than than a half of the price of the game

B) you should play more games, PC or not the AAA model isnt sustainable as games become more and more expensive to make, the worst part is that the publisher try to place these costs on us, the customers, like i said, with shit like DLC day oe, online passes, etc

thats the real problem, not PC, those anti-customers policies have already killed many devs and driven a few publishers into the dust, if AAA stay the way they are they WILL disappear and it will be entirely their fault

try playing more games, seriously AAA isnt the only thing that exist and in my opinion, nowadays is far from the best, may i suggest FTL? as well as some mark of the ninja, rogue legacy, antichamber, legend of grimrock and runner 2, torchlight II and castle crashers are also very enjoyable with coop

I'm not sure on the comparison between GTA5 and LoL... The highest grossing multiplat (4 different consoles) game ever vs one years earnings from a f2p PC title... It's basically impossible to ever even guess the magnitude of PC sales because Valve don't have to publish their numbers for suits in charge. The fact it's even being weighed up against the console market as a whole should be meaningful enough shouldn't it?

Shadow-Phoenix:
I wasn't exactly happy to ehar this, I like both, I don't like seeing another fail and get congratulated for doing so, but some people here will most likely act smug about it regardless.

The guy also said that somehow in the past PC's weren't a necessity yet consoles were and now it's reversed?, except PC's have always been needed, not for gaming but for every day important needs like work and actually managing other things like dams, power plants, other important shit etc, the guy lost his credibility with me when he stated that, that's never been true at all.

You are confusing mainframe computers actually used by governments/corporations to do the jobs you describe and the networked PCs that are used as clients/terminals of the mainframe.

Home PCs have long been a luxury and did not become ubiquitous until the mid to late '00s, on the other hand DVD players (which the PS2 and XBox fall into) quickly became a semi-necessity like VCRs and the most common DVD players were the PS2 followed by the XBox.

I don't know in terms of revenue, but obviously if someone games on console and pc (unless affected by outside factors like friends and whatnot) then a game is going to be a superior version on the pc and probably cheaper, so why wouldn't the market follow that? Consoles are trying harder to emulate PC's (let's face it, they are locked down mini pc's at this point in a nutshell.) so they are losing an uphill battle. They just need to stick with their strengths of plug n play, local co-op/multiplayer functions, and strong first and second party titles. (Sony has my eye on this regard, but that probably won't come to fruition until 2015ish)

Vault101:

Raziel:

I know steam makes a lot of money. But I want to know is whether pc gamers actually PAY enough money to support AAA development?

being the sucker I am I got Titanfall on launch...there were plenty of other players..others paying full a lunch day price

if people reeeeaally want a game theres a good chance they'll buy it on launch (hype aside games being good helps too) not EVERY gamer waits for a steam sale..in fact maybe steams sales help because they pay something for a game they might not have otherwise bought at all (but thats just pure speculation on my part)

Gotta +1 this, there are a few games right off the top of my head I wouldn't have gotten if not for getting them in a steam sale (Crusader kings II, Mount and blade: Warband, x:com enemy unknown) and after getting addicted to them, the developer went straight to the top of dev's that I loved and I bought tons of expansions/DLC for those games afterwards because of it.

that being said, there are plenty of steam games sitting in my library for "a rainy day" that I got because they were such a bloody good deal and just haven't had the willpower to play them while I'm still hooked on other games. Still, they are there, and I got them for less than 5-10 bucks, so doesn't bug me.

Ultimatecalibur:

You are confusing mainframe computers actually used by governments/corporations to do the jobs you describe and the networked PCs that are used as clients/terminals of the mainframe.

Home PCs have long been a luxury and did not become ubiquitous until the mid to late '00s, on the other hand DVD players (which the PS2 and XBox fall into) quickly became a semi-necessity like VCRs and the most common DVD players were the PS2 followed by the XBox.

peak DVD player sales 2006 - 141 million
Peak PS2 sales 2007 - 7million
Couldn't find a figure for peak XBox sales but I doubt if between the two they even made up 10% of the DVD player market

Edit: basically the 150-250 consoles didn't really influence the already established 20-30 DVD player market of the time, interestingly though the PS3 had a huge impact on the HD DVD vs Bluray format war and was a genuine contender as one of the best launch Bluray players due to the ability to update its firmware over the internet and competitive pricing with the other launch players :)

gmaverick019:

Gotta +1 this, there are a few games right off the top of my head I wouldn't have gotten if not for getting them in a steam sale (Crusader kings II, Mount and blade: Warband, x:com enemy unknown) and after getting addicted to them, the developer went straight to the top of dev's that I loved and I bought tons of expansions/DLC for those games afterwards because of it.

I think it taps into some faulty logic in dealing with money

its like well know I don't really want this game but its $5 so how can I NOT try it? and more often than not it ends up unplayed along with 50 other $5 games...

but sometimes you do find a gem..

Vault101:

gmaverick019:

Gotta +1 this, there are a few games right off the top of my head I wouldn't have gotten if not for getting them in a steam sale (Crusader kings II, Mount and blade: Warband, x:com enemy unknown) and after getting addicted to them, the developer went straight to the top of dev's that I loved and I bought tons of expansions/DLC for those games afterwards because of it.

I think it taps into some faulty logic in dealing with money

its like well know I don't really want this game but its $5 so how can I NOT try it? and more often than not it ends up unplayed along with 50 other $5 games...

but sometimes you do find a gem..

I do limit my steam purchases and only get things I've heard amazing things about and researched myself, I'm not THAT much of an impulse buyer(thankfully), but risking 5 bucks is exponentially easier than risking 40-50 bucks.

While I do agree it is some...awkward logic, I would rather have twenty 5 dollar games and love only two or three of them than pay 40-50 bucks a piece for two games and love both of them for sure. my library is fucking stacked (digital games I have a whopping total of 353 and I have 13 physical games on my shelf.) and it doesn't look like it'll be slowing down this year with the 5-6 games off the top of my head I'll be wanting.

Hell I got mars: War logs for I think 7 bucks and even with how rough it was I highly enjoyed it, and I think the dev appreciated getting some of my money rather than none at all, which is hard to do when you have in store purchases rather than digital, as a key is a few kb of data and a physical games has to account for shipping/retail/shelf space/etc... so they can't just sell things that cheap on a whim.

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