Evolve Won't Support Mods At Launch

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Evolve Won't Support Mods At Launch

evolve - jan first look screenshots (11)

Turtle Rock says Evolve might implement support for mods post-launch but it won't be there out of the gate.

The best online shooters, or at least the most durable, tend to be those that support mods. Mods allow creative (or bored) fans the opportunity to change up the game, making it into something different - and often, something better. Some mods are simple while others are complete overhauls, and the odds are pretty good that if you've spent any meaningful amount of time shooting at other people online, you've got your favorites.

But when Turtle Rock unleashes Evolve on the world later this year, it will do so without mod support. "We're not against it," studio co-founder Phil Robb told Rock, Paper, Shotgun. "I'm a big fan of that kind of stuff. I mean, if it ends up coming to be, then that's awesome. But we're still very much in development. I don't think we have anything concrete yet."

It's not exactly the most unambiguous answer to a question I've ever heard, but when Robb was pressed about whether that meant mods won't be considered until after launch, he said, "Probably, yeah."

As RPS pointed out, Turtle Rock has been successful but it's not a huge studio, and it's developing the game for both next-gen consoles and the PC on its own, which is a pretty heavily workload. But while Evolve will offer multiple player classes and alternate modes of play, the basic underlying game seems pretty narrowly focused, and that could prove problematic in the long run.

Turtle Rock announced yesterday that Evolve will launch on October 21 for the Xbox One, PlayStation 4 and PC.

Source: Rock, Paper, Shotgun

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It would be better if they spend time working on it and release it when it's ready, but if this is just marketing-speak for "we can't be bothered because it might compete with DLC down the line" then don't even waste my time talking to me.

Well I wouldn't hold my breath, there were plans of skins and monster packs long long ago and those won't buy themselves now will they...

"we will never add mods, stop asking about it"

i cant believe how devs still do this shit, its insane, after the success skyrim, arma 2 and just cause 2 because of mods, it should be a given to support modding for your games, its basically a win-win-win-win-win situation

- mods increase the lifespan of a game, keeping it relevant, so by the time you announce a sequel the game remains fresh in the minds of the public
- mods can spawn a very successful modification that can significantly increase your sales numbers, such as DayZ, Counter Strike, Just Cause 2 multiplayer, Team Fortress, Dota, etc. hell if you are smart, you are going to bring these moders aboard to expand your number of franchises and create more successful games, like Valve and Bohemia have done
- mods can create whole new genres or significantly affect existing ones, changing the gaming landscape forever, like Dota, Counter Strike and Team Fortress did
- this is a little controversial, but moders can fix your game, like what happened with dark souls, which became playable thanks to durante and his DSFix mod
- mods DO NOT affect your DLC sales, as Skyrim proved

arguably the only way in which mods can affect your business negatively, is if you have a game series that is being anualized, you are not interested in extending the life of your franchise, in fact, you probably want to kill off previous entires in the series to make people buy the newer games

then again, thats a fucking disgusting sales tactic to begin with

NuclearKangaroo:
"we will never add mods, stop asking about it"

That's nowhere in the article, why did you put that? They said maybe later.

Something people seem to have a lot of trouble with is the fact that modability isn't a check-box you tick for PR, it's actual work and development time. Even though you're building the game now it's not the same thing. Red Orchestra 2 for example took months to get reasonable mod tools, the ones on release were incomplete and you can't use the monetization accusation because they only released one piece of paid DLC.

Besides, day one mod tools should be pointless if the game is decently optimized and optimization mods usually do without as far as I'm aware.

You know what noob devs?
You need not do ANYTHING for modders. They are not stupid. Sometimes they are as good or BETTER then you. The stupid shit that Dice said that modders "Cant handle complex BS like FrostBite 3" is exactly that, shit. Modders have done games that will make the tech team of Dice commit suicide.

All you need to do is to support any possible mods AND not be in an active war with mods. The rest will/can come if your game OR engine are good.
As simple as that.

I don't get what the problem is here. If the game is worth half a damn, then it won't need mods. Not to start with, at least. It's not like they are completely shutting out the possibility.

Wasnt Saints Row 3 and 4 also supposed to have full mod support? Whatever happened to that?

Clowndoe:

NuclearKangaroo:
"we will never add mods, stop asking about it"

That's nowhere in the article, why did you put that? They said maybe later.

Something people seem to have a lot of trouble with is the fact that modability isn't a check-box you tick for PR, it's actual work and development time. Even though you're building the game now it's not the same thing. Red Orchestra 2 for example took months to get reasonable mod tools, the ones on release were incomplete and you can't use the monetization accusation because they only released one piece of paid DLC.

Besides, day one mod tools should be pointless if the game is decently optimized and optimization mods usually do without as far as I'm aware.

yeah, just like battlefield "wont add mod support yet"

http://kotaku.com/5485700/bad-company-2-devs-have-nothing-but-love-for-the-modding-community

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dice-afraid-to-release-battlefield-3-mod-tools/1100-6392163/

and titanfall "wont have mod tools at launch"

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/130988-Titanfall-Wont-Have-Mod-Tools-at-Launch

yeah ive heard this shit before, if mod support is not there at launch is unlikely to ever be added

the only time ive seen the whole "we will add mods later" PR bullshit actually pay off is with sim city, and that was only after the game itself turned into a complete clusterfuck, one year later, and even then the mod support added was just pityful

making a good game is also a lot of work, they could just put a blank DVD on the box and be done with it, mods in my opinion, is part of customer satisfaction, its something that should really be looked into when you make a PC game, port or not, and it can greatly benefit you in the end

Mahorfeus:
I don't get what the problem is here. If the game is worth half a damn, then it won't need mods. Not to start with, at least. It's not like they are completely shutting out the possibility.

Oh sure, it does not mean the game itself will be bad.
But its very simple:
Game A is good. Game A has no mods
Now we have Game A again. Its same game. But it has mods.

Game A with mods >>> Game A without mods.

Modding allows for a bigger, better, more pasionate community. It makes the game be able to last longer. It also means the devs may have an available pool of decent-god level coders, game designers and level designers.
It can also spawn SEPERATE games or even AAA worthy games.

So basically going by the usual reactionary comments here I'm going to assume the game is going to be the shittest game imaginable and that the prophecy of the world ending will come shortly as mods at launch were not on the checklist of appeasing the few gods.

I think it's delusional to think this game will allow mods. It won't happen. It's weird that people think that is a standard feature in PC games. It was never that standard. Most games I played growing up on the PC were not moddable. It's an online game, afterall. Mods to a lot of people mean cheating (which is completely stupid and wrong), and a lot of developers fall into that same trap. That is just my opinion though, I could be wrong... I want to be wrong.

I hope they realise this is just about synonymous with "We never intend to implement support for mods so you buy our DLC".

Seems wise, why bother with the extra work for such a tiny minority after all.
Good PR too, I'd personally use the "art line" about how our companies art-piece isn't there to be vandalised, but this will do just fine except for a few select people whose entitlement overpowers their reasoning/understanding.

I'm not really seeing the issue here, and I have to wonder if most of those who have responded to this thread actually even read the article. No where in the article does it say that the developers are against mods or will not allow them, it simply says that as they are still developing the game they aren't planning to have built in mod support right at launch. They even say that it's likely mod support will be included post launch.

StriderShinryu:
I'm not really seeing the issue here, and I have to wonder if most of those who have responded to this thread actually even read the article. No where in the article does it say that the developers are against mods or will not allow them, it simply says that as they are still developing the game they aren't planning to have built in mod support right at launch. They even say that it's likely mod support will be included post launch.

Have you yourself read their posts? Seems most make clear that they think its all PR speak for "we hate mods, deal with it".

Considering these are the guys who did the Left 4 Dead games, and is owned by Valve, I don't think there's much to worry about. Left 4 Dead 2 has great mod support, and so it already establishes that this company has a history with providing mod support.

Rozalia1:

StriderShinryu:
I'm not really seeing the issue here, and I have to wonder if most of those who have responded to this thread actually even read the article. No where in the article does it say that the developers are against mods or will not allow them, it simply says that as they are still developing the game they aren't planning to have built in mod support right at launch. They even say that it's likely mod support will be included post launch.

Have you yourself read their posts? Seems most make clear that they think its all PR speak for "we hate mods, deal with it".

Whilst I do not believe they hate mods (this is unthinkable for a developer to believe) I do believe its just a way to be "certain" any future DLC will be sold without the compatition of mods.
That and appeasing the majority of people that are dumb and believe mods equal cheating... which is sad for gaming.

Charcharo:

Rozalia1:

StriderShinryu:
I'm not really seeing the issue here, and I have to wonder if most of those who have responded to this thread actually even read the article. No where in the article does it say that the developers are against mods or will not allow them, it simply says that as they are still developing the game they aren't planning to have built in mod support right at launch. They even say that it's likely mod support will be included post launch.

Have you yourself read their posts? Seems most make clear that they think its all PR speak for "we hate mods, deal with it".

Whilst I do not believe they hate mods (this is unthinkable for a developer to believe) I do believe its just a way to be "certain" any future DLC will be sold without the compatition of mods.
That and appeasing the majority of people that are dumb and believe mods equal cheating... which is sad for gaming.

And if they are they should be lauded, not scorned. They are a business after all and if it can effect their buy rates on downloadable content, than they do what they have to do.
Money > mods at the end of the day.

As for being against mods being an unthinkable stance, I'll use your usual argument. As gaming is art to certain people than you'll find there will be some folk out there who will not want the unrefined, and unworthy tinkering with their masterpiece.

Clowndoe:

NuclearKangaroo:
"we will never add mods, stop asking about it"

That's nowhere in the article, why did you put that? They said maybe later.

Something people seem to have a lot of trouble with is the fact that modability isn't a check-box you tick for PR, it's actual work and development time.

Which they isntead devote to DLC. Do you see a reoccuring issue here?

Rozalia1:

And if they are they should be lauded, not scorned. They are a business after all and if it can effect their buy rates on downloadable content, than they do what they have to do.
Money > mods at the end of the day.

As for being against mods being an unthinkable stance, I'll use your usual argument. As gaming is art to certain people than you'll find there will be some folk out there who will not want the unrefined, and unworthy tinkering with their masterpiece.

Mods increase a games longevity, so its hardly a anti-business stance to support modding, so no they shouldn't be lauded or scorned. Its never a simple decision, I'll grant you that. Money = Mods, more people buy the game and over a longer period of time. DLC eventually drop in sales like any product, mods on the other hand keep games alive.

Rozalia1:

Charcharo:

Rozalia1:

Have you yourself read their posts? Seems most make clear that they think its all PR speak for "we hate mods, deal with it".

Whilst I do not believe they hate mods (this is unthinkable for a developer to believe) I do believe its just a way to be "certain" any future DLC will be sold without the compatition of mods.
That and appeasing the majority of people that are dumb and believe mods equal cheating... which is sad for gaming.

And if they are they should be lauded, not scorned. They are a business after all and if it can effect their buy rates on downloadable content, than they do what they have to do.
Money > mods at the end of the day.

As for being against mods being an unthinkable stance, I'll use your usual argument. As gaming is art to certain people than you'll find there will be some folk out there who will not want the unrefined, and unworthy tinkering with their masterpiece.

Thing is, mods seem to mean MORE sales then LESS sales. See STALKER and Skyrim and Half Life 1/2 as clear examples...
In other words they are doing a mistake if they want more money.

And actually I would not be scorning them if it wasnt for this. Everytime I hear such an article, it means no modding support and probably even a stance against them.
And after the BullShit DICE said ... yeah....

As for harming art... nope. Mods always mean you yourself had installed them. And the good mods I always talk about but you never ever try them are usually their own games...

People seem to be forgetting that the people at Turtle Rock are gamers, they know about mods, they know the benefits.

Look at the co-founder's quote again: "I'm a big fan of that kind of stuff. I mean, if it ends up coming to be, then that's awesome. But we're still very much in development. I don't think we have anything concrete yet."

He's saying how much he likes that stuff and that it would be awesome to have. That he's holding back a little by saying that they're still in development is perfectly fair. Can you imagine if he'd said they would have day 1 support for mods and then they'd needed to remove it later? The internet would have screamed for blood.

Charcharo:
You know what noob devs?
You need not do ANYTHING for modders. They are not stupid. Sometimes they are as good or BETTER then you. The stupid shit that Dice said that modders "Cant handle complex BS like FrostBite 3" is exactly that, shit. Modders have done games that will make the tech team of Dice commit suicide.

Damn straight.

It always makes me laugh when some corporate desk jockey thinks he's hot shit and lowballs mods and modders.
Those chucklefucks make me laugh, because it's a sign of obvious contempt; and it's always because they're arrogantly ignorant, or fearful of looking bad by comparison (like when one random modder fixed technical issues in the PC version of Dark Souls that the game's own creators couldn't/didn't).

If you're an aspiring game developer take my advice: NEVER, EVER undersell modders. If they get invested, they can add so much value to your game. I know you fear hackers/cheaters, but seriously, mods can give a game legs.
Just ask Bethesda; PC modders have been bailing their collective incompetent asses out for over a decade now.

Modders can and have created entire genres of games.
League of Legends, one of if not the most popular online game in the world right now, is a MOBA, a genre that started from DOTA, which was a Warcraft 3 map. DOTA Allstars in particular IS a mod-job, since it uses external resources and scripting in addition to the War3 editor's existing assets.

While a lot of modders are conventional hacks (almost literally), some of -THE BEST- (or at least ambitious) game developers I've ever seen started off as modders and hobbyists because they are the people who are REALLY INTO the games they play.

Might?? It should be Must or Mandatory because it extends the game's lifespan with user created content! Look at Half-Life and Doom, people are still making custom content and keeping the game alive. This keeps games alive well past their date for future gamers and original fans.

zehydra:
Considering these are the guys who did the Left 4 Dead games, and is owned by Valve, I don't think there's much to worry about. Left 4 Dead 2 has great mod support, and so it already establishes that this company has a history with providing mod support.

wat, no.

Valve took over development of L4D. Turtle Rock is now independent. Valve has the mod support history, not Turtle Rock.

I'll go with the boat that thinks this means mod support will never happen. This type of game seems ripe for skin packs, one of the simplest things to implement.

TheUnbeholden:

Clowndoe:

Something people seem to have a lot of trouble with is the fact that modability isn't a check-box you tick for PR, it's actual work and development time.

Which they isntead devote to DLC. Do you see a reoccuring issue here?

Sure they *can* do that. The point is there is a valid reason to not have it at launch. 2k games lets people mod the XCOM and Civilization games, and this is the first chance we have to really get to know Turtle Rock's stance, given their previous games were CS and L4D. We can at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

NuclearKangaroo:
"we will never add mods, stop asking about it"

i cant believe how devs still do this shit, its insane, after the success skyrim

Skyrim released the mod kit months after the release of the game.

Which is exactly what they're probably planning to do.

I give your reading comprehension a 6/10.

Use_Imagination_here:

NuclearKangaroo:
"we will never add mods, stop asking about it"

i cant believe how devs still do this shit, its insane, after the success skyrim

Skyrim released the mod kit months after the release of the game.

Which is exactly what they're probably planning to do.

I give your reading comprehension a 6/10.

i read that part, the thing is those are very often empty promises, you know, for someone who seems to enjoy calling people out for apparently not reading correctly, you didnt read my previous post where i expressed my concerns with this

if evolve truthly releases mod tools post launch, good, great in fact, im proven wrong and ill go eat crow, is not like im happy if a game isnt moddable, but this kind of speech, ive heard many times before and it all led to nothing, or it was too little, too late

NuclearKangaroo:

Use_Imagination_here:

NuclearKangaroo:
"we will never add mods, stop asking about it"

i cant believe how devs still do this shit, its insane, after the success skyrim

Skyrim released the mod kit months after the release of the game.

Which is exactly what they're probably planning to do.

I give your reading comprehension a 6/10.

i read that part, the thing is those are very often empty promises, you know, for someone who seems to enjoy calling people out for apparently not reading correctly, you didnt read my previous post where i expressed my concerns with this

if evolve truthly releases mod tools post launch, good, great in fact, im proven wrong and ill go eat crow, is not like im happy if a game isnt moddable, but this kind of speech, ive heard many times before and it all led to nothing, or it was too little, too late

Your post stated that they officially said they're never going to add mods. This is blatantly false. I was pointing this out.

It was especially strange that you included an example of a game with identical circumstances. The devs of Skyrim didn't definitely state that they were going to have mod support for PC. And they did state that it wasn't going to be at launch. I was pointing this out.

So your example of the success of a game due to mods that developed mod support in near identical circumstances as a basis for why its stupid to release a game in those circumstances can be colloquially referred to as "stupid".

Use_Imagination_here:

NuclearKangaroo:

Use_Imagination_here:
Skyrim released the mod kit months after the release of the game.

Which is exactly what they're probably planning to do.

I give your reading comprehension a 6/10.

i read that part, the thing is those are very often empty promises, you know, for someone who seems to enjoy calling people out for apparently not reading correctly, you didnt read my previous post where i expressed my concerns with this

if evolve truthly releases mod tools post launch, good, great in fact, im proven wrong and ill go eat crow, is not like im happy if a game isnt moddable, but this kind of speech, ive heard many times before and it all led to nothing, or it was too little, too late

Your post stated that they officially said they're never going to add mods. This is blatantly false. I was pointing this out.

It was especially strange that you included an example of a game with identical circumstances. The devs of Skyrim didn't definitely state that they were going to have mod support for PC. And they did state that it wasn't going to be at launch. I was pointing this out.

So your example of the success of a game due to mods that developed mod support in near identical circumstances as a basis for why its stupid to release a game in those circumstances can be colloquially referred to as "stupid".

my point was a blatant figure of speech, again showing how little hope i have for mod support post launch in this title

i didnt know about the situation with skyrim, i used skyrim in my post not because it had or not mod tools at launch, i mentioned as an example of how important can mod tools be for a game

plus is a reality that even before launch bethesda showed more commitment to skyrim's modding that this half-assed "yeah kinda maybe" response

http://www.gamefront.com/bethesda-hopes-to-have-skyrim-mod-tools-on-launch-day/

does any part in these dev's response show commitment to mod tools?

Charcharo:

Thing is, mods seem to mean MORE sales then LESS sales. See STALKER and Skyrim and Half Life 1/2 as clear examples...
In other words they are doing a mistake if they want more money.

And actually I would not be scorning them if it wasnt for this. Everytime I hear such an article, it means no modding support and probably even a stance against them.
And after the BullShit DICE said ... yeah....

As for harming art... nope. Mods always mean you yourself had installed them. And the good mods I always talk about but you never ever try them are usually their own games...

So you have two games as examples? Where are the figures pointing out the connection between increased sales being as a result of mods? Where is the data that encompasses 100+ games to show this connection between mods = sales +by X%?

So if I went up to the Mona Lisa and doodled all over it I'd not be vandalising it? If you're going to call videogames art than be ready for there being people who will treat it like art. Why would they give tools to vandalise their work so a couple of bush league kiddies can knock something up, and than be praised more than the creators themselves for their little project? I mean look at this thread itself with people saying modders put devs to shame...what a joke.

Were those jobbers actually any good they wouldn't need to ride the coattails of low/midcarders to push out "their" "art".

NuclearKangaroo:

- mods DO NOT affect your DLC sales, as Skyrim proved

it does if your DLC is worse than texture mods done in less than a day.

Rozalia1:

So if I went up to the Mona Lisa and doodled all over it I'd not be vandalising it? If you're going to call videogames art than be ready for there being people who will treat it like art. Why would they give tools to vandalise their work so a couple of bush league kiddies can knock something up, and than be praised more than the creators themselves for their little project? I mean look at this thread itself with people saying modders put devs to shame...what a joke.

Were those jobbers actually any good they wouldn't need to ride the coattails of low/midcarders to push out "their" "art".

of course you would not be vandalising. If we are using mona lisa as an example, this link shows you many modders doing something with mona lisa. and its perfectly legal to do so. seriuosly, i didnt knew that "mods ruin games" people even existed anymore. this is an argument from sheer ingnorance.

archiebawled:
People seem to be forgetting that the people at Turtle Rock are gamers, they know about mods, they know the benefits.

The way Turtle Rock has been acting id doubt they were human, let alone gamers.

Rozalia1:

Charcharo:

Thing is, mods seem to mean MORE sales then LESS sales. See STALKER and Skyrim and Half Life 1/2 as clear examples...
In other words they are doing a mistake if they want more money.

And actually I would not be scorning them if it wasnt for this. Everytime I hear such an article, it means no modding support and probably even a stance against them.
And after the BullShit DICE said ... yeah....

As for harming art... nope. Mods always mean you yourself had installed them. And the good mods I always talk about but you never ever try them are usually their own games...

So you have two games as examples? Where are the figures pointing out the connection between increased sales being as a result of mods? Where is the data that encompasses 100+ games to show this connection between mods = sales +by X%?

So if I went up to the Mona Lisa and doodled all over it I'd not be vandalising it? If you're going to call videogames art than be ready for there being people who will treat it like art. Why would they give tools to vandalise their work so a couple of bush league kiddies can knock something up, and than be praised more than the creators themselves for their little project? I mean look at this thread itself with people saying modders put devs to shame...what a joke.

Were those jobbers actually any good they wouldn't need to ride the coattails of low/midcarders to push out "their" "art".

Your Mona Lisa analogy is... and I do not want to be mean...shit. No, really. It is bad. Very bad. Use a different one.
A slightly better, but again not good analogy would be literature and fan fiction. However that also is not perfect, as it ignores the fact that authores are usually single independant units whilst game makers are usually not.

And calling things like Black Mesa, R&D and Lost Alpha vandalism, when the original is 100% intact right next to them... is very strange.

As for increase in sales. It just does.

Strazdas:

NuclearKangaroo:

- mods DO NOT affect your DLC sales, as Skyrim proved

it does if your DLC is worse than texture mods done in less than a day.

you might be right, let me rephrase that

- mods DO NOT affect your QUALITY DLC sales, as Skyrim proved

Rozalia1:

Charcharo:

Thing is, mods seem to mean MORE sales then LESS sales. See STALKER and Skyrim and Half Life 1/2 as clear examples...
In other words they are doing a mistake if they want more money.

And actually I would not be scorning them if it wasnt for this. Everytime I hear such an article, it means no modding support and probably even a stance against them.
And after the BullShit DICE said ... yeah....

As for harming art... nope. Mods always mean you yourself had installed them. And the good mods I always talk about but you never ever try them are usually their own games...

So you have two games as examples? Where are the figures pointing out the connection between increased sales being as a result of mods? Where is the data that encompasses 100+ games to show this connection between mods = sales +by X%?

So if I went up to the Mona Lisa and doodled all over it I'd not be vandalising it? If you're going to call videogames art than be ready for there being people who will treat it like art. Why would they give tools to vandalise their work so a couple of bush league kiddies can knock something up, and than be praised more than the creators themselves for their little project? I mean look at this thread itself with people saying modders put devs to shame...what a joke.

Were those jobbers actually any good they wouldn't need to ride the coattails of low/midcarders to push out "their" "art".

thats an awful analogy, you are talking about someone doodling over THE mona lisa, and in the original portrait in the louvre, but someone reinterpreting the original work? painting your own mona lisa or taking an image of it and photoshop it a little? why yes thats perfectly valid

http://www.deviantart.com/?q=mona+lisa

the history of art is full of reinsterpretations of previous works and mods can be seen just like that, re-interpretations

Apocalyptica is a tribute band to Metallica, they play the same songs as Metallica but with classic instruments

the 1983 film scarface is a reimagining of the 1932 film of the same name

hell even poker has different variants and rules

why cant games then have different rules? different re-interpretations? and even ignoring all this, if we were to pretend for a single moment that re-interpretations of existing works is not a thing, and video games were an anomaly, would that discredit them as an art form? i could doodle over the mona lisa, that doesnt retroactively make the painting not-art, and if i bought the mona lisa from the louvre id have the right to draw a moustache on her if i wanted to, screw the world

your example doesnt make sense on any level

oh and if you needed more examples mods increase sales

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_(video_gaming)#Unforeseen_consequences_of_modding

"In early 2012, the DayZ modification for ARMA 2 was released and caused a massive increase in sales for the three-year-old game, putting it in the top spot for online game sales for a number of months and selling over 300,000 units for the game."

and lets not forget some of the most popular games ever created, such as CS and Dota, are mods, and games based on these mods, like LoL and CoD are ALSO some of the most popular games ever

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