The USA certainly wouldn't extradite to the UK if the situation were reversed so I say charge him here in the UK, he didn't intend to cause any damage and the money spent repairing the damage was probably spent upgrading security to prevent further attacks - which is probably money well spent, better a conspiracy nut then someone actually capable of doing some real damage with that sort of information.

SO *claps hands together* Where shall we hack next?

I agree with Skrapt, on all points.

To be honest, while the guy did a hell of a lot of damage to the US mainframe, he really shouldn't get anything more than a 5 year sentence. He did nothing with the information he found, and frankly while slightly moronic, he really shouldn't be punished for anything more than intruding into a nations privacy. And for having waaaaay too much time on his hands.

5 years, I say, no more.

Agreed. If he could get into their mainframe, it really was a necessary wakeup call. They should be thanking him, not trying to prosecute him.

DeadMG:
Agreed. If he could get into their mainframe, it really was a necessary wakeup call. They should be thanking him, not trying to prosecute him.

There you go, the US should hire him to build up their defences!

This case has been so overexposed by the media that it's hard to have a fair view on it. Some will argue that, regardless of his Asperger's Syndrome, he knew what he was doing was illegal when he committed the crime--[Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome if you need more info on AS]--and so should be deported immediately as his actions have had a massive, real world, criminal impact, in this case on the US Armed Forces & government computer infrastructure.

Others would put forward that it was because of his AS--in spite of its leaving intact of linguistic and cognitive functions--that led to McKinnon's breaking of the law because he was interested in UFOs and his AS just wouldn't let him leave off searching anywhere and everywhere in search of "the truth". The other part of the argument is that because of his AS if we extradited him he'd suffer psychosis and possibly kill himself.

I agree with Skrapt that at least it was Mr McKinnon who broke into their network--a humble civilian interested in UFOs--and not a terrorist with an axe to grind so the money needed to fix his intrusion is, all in all, not so much damage as necessary maintenance.

On the other hand, AS does not leave someone unable to differentiate right from wrong and, therefore, as he knowingly hacked into computers he knew well enough he should leave alone and thereby knowingly committed a criminal act--whereby he should accept what he did and take the punishment such an act merits.

Mr McKinnon's case has--as they say--become highly political and no one solution will ever be satisfactory. In the end, I believe Mr McKinnon has brought this on himself and should face trial in the United States HOWEVER any sentence should be served in a prison in the United Kingdom so that his family can support him through his time and his AS monitored by people here already familiar with it, perhaps even his current GP.

We can't go into the future and see what would happen if A or B were chosen. Only time will tell what should have been done.

he did all that to look for files on UFOs? Wasted talent

...But what if he had done more damage, regardless of intent?

I mean, he was messing with the American government.
I don't know about other people, but I'm shocked that people aren't taking this as an affront to America itself.

Bonaggy:

Mr McKinnon's case has--as they say--become highly political and no one solution will ever be satisfactory. In the end, I believe Mr McKinnon has brought this on himself and should face trial in the United States HOWEVER any sentence should be served in a prison in the United Kingdom so that his family can support him through his time and his AS monitored by people here already familiar with it, perhaps even his current GP.

We can't go into the future and see what would happen if A or B were chosen. Only time will tell what should have been done.

I don't have a problem with him facing trial in the USA per se, what I do have a problem with is that in the UK he would face a 4-5 year sentence, whereas in the USA he would probably face a 70 year sentence. The idea of justice is to punish someone enough to know what they were doing was wrong and not do it again, and the US government has made it painfully clear that they will try to get the maximum sentence possible regardless of the fact that McKinnon already knows what he has done was wrong (by pleading guilty) and even attempted to enter into a plea deal with the US by telling them exactly how he did it (which to my understanding fell through because the people offering the deal hadn't been authorized to do so), those actions show he doesn't deserve the jail sentence he is extremely likely to receive in the US courts.

Although I do also have a problem with the fact that if a US citizen had been hacking into the equivalent computer systems in the UK, that the US would more then likely refuse to extradite him and bring the charges against him in a US court. Which is all that the UK is trying to do.

Catkid906:
I say, "Why punish him? He's pointed out a security flaw and now you feel a bit silly don't you America?a.

how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

Regardless of whether he took anything or not, he broke in knowing what he was doing is illegal. I don't care if he as Aspergers Syndrome, ADD, ADHD, or OLED, most people control it and don't go around hacking government computers.

Really, if this was an American who hacked into the UK government computers, everyone would want him hanged or something.

He broke in government files, and he could have done some serious damage. Simple as that. Whatever he gets is good enough for whatever he did, that's what I think.

EDIT: Necroswanson puts it nicely I s'pose.

Skrapt:
The USA certainly wouldn't extradite to the UK if the situation were reversed so I say charge him here in the UK, he didn't intend to cause any damage and the money spent repairing the damage was probably spent upgrading security to prevent further attacks - which is probably money well spent, better a conspiracy nut then someone actually capable of doing some real damage with that sort of information.

This. Especially the first line.

Jumplion:
how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

It's more like robbing a store with a gun, but instead of taking anything you look at the milk to see if any of it comes from rats. Sure you give a hell of a scare to the owner, but you don't actually rob him.

I can't believe that people aren't talking about what he actually found in there. He claims to have found evidence of a massive cover-up by the American government and yet people aren't linking that with the fact that the U.S.A is pursuing him so voraciously.

He won't get extradited, MI6 or whoever will recruit him.

TheNecroswanson:
I think the lawyer is trying to blow Aspergers out of proportion to make it seem as tough he's mentally unstable. He's not, he knew exactly what he was doing, he caused some massive damage.
I don't give a rats ass what his intent was, this was an attack. Hacking a government network and damage it, you are attacking. Screw that he was looking for "UFOs", that's just what he says he was looking for. There is no way to tell what he learned in there and what deals he's willing to make now. That was an attack, and he needs to be behind bars for quite some time.

Do you understand Asperger's then? Evidently not, although Asperger's isn't as bad as Autism can be it shows some of the basic underpinnings, namely not being able to differentiate between right and wrong easily and poor social skills (usually in the form of not being able to read body language). So how do you know that he knew what he was doing was wrong? He broke the law and should face charges for that, but the difference in sentences he'd receive in the UK and US mean that he really shouldn't be extradited - especially since he's made an obvious effort to make up for his crimes (by telling the US exactly how he did it and allowing them to fix their lax security - which is probably where the costs were incurred). So why exactly should he go behind bars for a long time? He knows what he did was wrong and wouldn't do it again, either through personal choice or through the restrictions already placed upon him and the computers he uses.

Specter_:

Jumplion:
how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

It's more like robbing a store with a gun, but instead of taking anything you look at the milk to see if any of it comes from rats. Sure you give a hell of a scare to the owner, but you don't actually rob him.

I think my analogy is better.

It's like you should be thanking the theif for pointing out a security flaw while he's pointing a gun at your head. Then the theif finds out that what he's looking for isn't there, and leaves. He still broke in, knowing fully well that what he was doing was illegal.

And even if I take your analogy, is the store owner going to care if you took anything or not? He pointed a gun at his head, he could have caused some serious trouble, and he was doing something illegal. That can't be excused by saying "Oh, thank you for pointing out that flaw in my metal detector".

But I'm not saying that 5-7 years is too little, I'm just surprised that people are saying that the US should thank someone who could have destroyed the whole computer system.

Jumplion:

Specter_:

Jumplion:
how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

It's more like robbing a store with a gun, but instead of taking anything you look at the milk to see if any of it comes from rats. Sure you give a hell of a scare to the owner, but you don't actually rob him.

I think my analogy is better.

It's like you should be thanking the theif for pointing out a security flaw while he's pointing a gun at your head. Then the theif finds out that what he's looking for isn't there, and leaves. He still broke in, knowing fully well that what he was doing was illegal.

And even if I take your analogy, is the store owner going to care if you took anything or not? He pointed a gun at his head, he could have caused some serious trouble, and he was doing something illegal. That can't be excused by saying "Oh, thank you for pointing out that flaw in my metal detector".

But I'm not saying that 5-7 years is too little, I'm just surprised that people are saying that the US should thank someone who could have destroyed the whole computer system.

Then we have no further ground for an argument, because we stand on the same side.
I too think he should be punished, same goes for the nutjob in the store who checked the milk, but 70 years is way too much. I agree that he doesn't deserve thanks, there are professional hackers who look for security-gaps for money (and probably gratitude), but come on: 70 years? For being nuts?

And Skrapts argument still stands.

£10 or whatever that is in US dollars says this guy ends up doing a few years of jail until the media intrest dies down and then mysteriously disappears either:
option a) to be recruited by some acronym narcs
option b) to a nice quiet grave somewhere noone will ever find him

Finally, someone fights against the government cover up of UFOs!

ianuam:
I can't believe that people aren't talking about what he actually found in there. He claims to have found evidence of a massive cover-up by the American government and yet people aren't linking that with the fact that the U.S.A is pursuing him so voraciously.

This. I am really curious as to what he found there. I would really like to know if he found anything on the Unidentified Flying Objects phenomenon.

And "damages"? Is that really a appropriate word when it comes to digital information? Unless there is physical damage the hardware storing that information or instructions given to a friggin robotic arm that damages something else, most "damage" in the digital realm is reversible. Also, why is supposedly "secure" systems even accessible from outside that country? The only damages I am being impressed upon by not just this article but by comments posted here is to national pride and egg on the IT security forces for not closing their back door to a peeping tom.

Erana:
...But what if he had done more damage, regardless of intent?

I mean, he was messing with the American government.
I don't know about other people, but I'm shocked that people aren't taking this as an affront to America itself.

Possibly America needs it. If they can't keep Pentagon records safe, how the hell are they going to protect the rights of the individual?

shadow_pirate22:
Finally, someone fights against the government cover up of UFOs!

To quote "Monsters Vs. Aliens"

"It seems an Unidentified Flying Object has landed in America. The only country UFO's seem to ever land on..."

Jumplion:

Specter_:

Jumplion:
how is that sensible? That's like having someone rob your store with a gun, and the theif saying "Oh, I got the gun past the metal detector, you should thank me now that you know that and can get that fixed."

It's more like robbing a store with a gun, but instead of taking anything you look at the milk to see if any of it comes from rats. Sure you give a hell of a scare to the owner, but you don't actually rob him.

I think my analogy is better.

It's like you should be thanking the theif for pointing out a security flaw while he's pointing a gun at your head. Then the theif finds out that what he's looking for isn't there, and leaves. He still broke in, knowing fully well that what he was doing was illegal.

And even if I take your analogy, is the store owner going to care if you took anything or not? He pointed a gun at his head, he could have caused some serious trouble, and he was doing something illegal. That can't be excused by saying "Oh, thank you for pointing out that flaw in my metal detector".

But I'm not saying that 5-7 years is too little, I'm just surprised that people are saying that the US should thank someone who could have destroyed the whole computer system.

Ridiculous and more ridiculous. At what point does this hacker threaten anyone with bodily harm, possibly resulting in death? And I would very much dispute any accusation that looking for information on networks, intra or inter, could actually destroy a whole computer system. Such ridiculous hyperbole, go soothe your hurt pride else where.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Erana:
...But what if he had done more damage, regardless of intent?

I mean, he was messing with the American government.
I don't know about other people, but I'm shocked that people aren't taking this as an affront to America itself.

Possibly America needs it. If they can't keep Pentagon records safe, how the hell are they going to protect the rights of the individual?

True, but it seems like the wrong way to go about doing it.
I dunno, patriot in me just feels a little violated.

Erana:

The_root_of_all_evil:

Erana:
...But what if he had done more damage, regardless of intent?

I mean, he was messing with the American government.
I don't know about other people, but I'm shocked that people aren't taking this as an affront to America itself.

Possibly America needs it. If they can't keep Pentagon records safe, how the hell are they going to protect the rights of the individual?

True, but it seems like the wrong way to go about doing it.
I dunno, patriot in me just feels a little violated.

It gets you back for Dick van Dyke's accent in Mary Poppins ;)

Jumplion:

shadow_pirate22:
Finally, someone fights against the government cover up of UFOs!

To quote "Monsters Vs. Aliens"

"It seems an Unidentified Flying Object has landed in America. The only country UFO's seem to ever land on..."

Plainly you have never read anything like Beyond Top Secret by Timothy Good, let alone done a silly google search that shows recorded sightings of various objects from all over our planet. The phenomenon does occur in the other countries air space and has been met with serious investigations in the past - most of the time, it behooves other nations to investigate because they suspect that someone is flying a new experimental plane or some such and don't particularly like intrusions into their air space that they haven't identified. Surely, the US especially can respect a flying object not identifying itself when flying within the area they are supposed to defend as a serious threat.

TheNecroswanson:

I don't understand Asperger's? I have been diagnosed as having Aspergers.
Telling an officer you understand that murder is against the alw will not stop them from arresting you for killing a man. Admitting to speeding only gets you out of a ticket with really nice cops.
ADMITTING WHAT YO DID WAS WRONG IS NO PENANCE FOR DOING IT.

I'm not saying it is, I still think he should be punished, just not to the degree that the US wants.

Skrapt:

TheNecroswanson:
I think the lawyer is trying to blow Aspergers out of proportion to make it seem as tough he's mentally unstable. He's not, he knew exactly what he was doing, he caused some massive damage.
I don't give a rats ass what his intent was, this was an attack. Hacking a government network and damage it, you are attacking. Screw that he was looking for "UFOs", that's just what he says he was looking for. There is no way to tell what he learned in there and what deals he's willing to make now. That was an attack, and he needs to be behind bars for quite some time.

Do you understand Asperger's then? Evidently not, although Asperger's isn't as bad as Autism can be it shows some of the basic underpinnings, namely not being able to differentiate between right and wrong easily[/b] and poor social skills (usually in the form of not being able to read body language). So how do you know that he knew what he was doing was wrong? He broke the law and should face charges for that, but the difference in sentences he'd receive in the UK and US mean that he really shouldn't be extradited - especially since he's made an obvious effort to make up for his crimes (by telling the US exactly how he did it and allowing them to fix their lax security - which is proba bly where the costs were incurred). [b]He knows what he did was wrong and wouldn't do it again

It doesn't matter that what he did amounts to unofficial pen testing (as some people reason it out to be), because you know he BROKE INTO a highly sensitive government computer network containing possibly classified data. Who knows what he could've found out and what he knows? Besides that, there's no "but seriously I just was doing pen testing to yer network (or substitute looking for information)

As far as Asberger's Syndrome defense...it's rather bullshitty. Yes Asberger's (AS from here on out) is under the autism spectrum but it is different than the general in its nuances. The gist is 3 things: reduced social learning (body language / gestures, idioms, etc.), in fact they're not very quiet people, they're pretty extroverted talking about whatever intense interest (2nd) they might have, not noticing or seeing the other person's emotions such as if it doesn't interest them, are bored with it, etc.

So in summary: I don't care that he has AS. The "robbing a story" analogy is prety valid imo. The fact is that he broke the law, and knew what he was doing.

Well, this is what happens when you take stupid conspiracy theories too seriously...

Well, it's better that this guy pointed a security flaw than a Chinese/Russian hacker. Who probably wouldn't have been looking just for UFOs.

Punishment... let's say a few years.

Erana:
...But what if he had done more damage, regardless of intent?

I mean, he was messing with the American government.
I don't know about other people, but I'm shocked that people aren't taking this as an affront to America itself.

This is clear and present danger to America and to everything US stands for. He's an enemy of freedom!

Tooooo the Guantanamo! Prepare the torture chambers!