Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Siege - Kill the Intruders - Hands on - Update

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Wow, this manages to capture the exact game I want from Rainbow Six. But that dialogue made me cringe so badly...

Greg Tito:
Each map starts with a preparation phase. Once you've selected your class, your team has one minute to get ready in the house. The defenders set up barricades, locking down windows and doors and reinforcing walls. You can also set barbed wire down to slow the enemy's advance. The police or eponymous rainbow six team have remote camera drones which can enter the building and scope out defenses and the location of the hostage. You can also argue about which way to enter the building, which in the build we played was limited to front or backyards. Hopefully they come up with more creative ways to enter because it makes sense to me to drop on the roof.

Wasn't the roof EXACTLY how they entered the building during the Day 0 reveal? They repelled upside down from the roof and shot/jumped through the windows.

This game was made for me, can't wait. :D

Sounds great. You're supposed to have the jitters and to be on edge, because the type of game its supposed to be is the one in which the balance can drastically change in a split second, as opposed to, say, Battlefield, where the balance of power is a much more gradual thing that shifts slowly. The addition of destructible environments is exactly the type of thing the series for so long needed, and its great to see that it didn't just wriggle its way in, but in a way that seems to be very well done, rather than being more minimalistic, like, again the Battlefield series, where you can only blow out a certain large section of the wall that, after a while, you can kind of "see" in the same way that you start to "see" the grid in strategy games and so on.

I'm optimistic. Now, please Ubisoft, don't burn through three project directors for this one.

Eiv:
This game was made for me, can't wait. :D

That is exactly what I thought seeing the launch trailer yesterday.
CS is fun, but being able to blow up a floor and drop in on kidnappers. That is gaming.

OT I just hope they balance it so that it's not just 15 second matches of everyone dying instantly.

TiberiusEsuriens:

Wasn't the roof EXACTLY how they entered the building during the Day 0 reveal? They repelled upside down from the roof and shot/jumped through the windows.

Yes, but I think the author was limited to the front and back yard in the build played to the public.

jFr[e]ak93:
OT I just hope they balance it so that it's not just 15 second matches of everyone dying instantly.

I think thats part of why they're including those shields, as well as having that one minute set-up. Allows time to set up traps and barricades, as well as to dig into a defensive position, move the hostage, even do some of their own "renevations" for defensive set-ups. Imagine having three people breach into one room, and then blowing the floor on them, either having them literally fall into a trap, or having the roof fall on them, disorienting them, and giving you a perfect moment to take a few quick potshots while they're relatively defenseless. Desctruction will ideally add a lot of variables and extend the match, making players more cautious.

She is an objective, nothing more.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a standard practice, to refer to human beings as "the package" or some such terminology, in order to distance yourself and to allow you to think objectively, as opposed to having your decision making being compromised by emotion?

As far as I can recall, every piece of military fiction that I've watched/read, they've referred to human beings as "the package." For example "stick with the package," or "en route with the package." While it could be interesting, I don't think a briefing of "this is Karen Jones. Mother of 4. School teacher that volunteers at a homeless shelter on the weekends" is needed. It may help the rescue team to form an emotional bond to the hostage, that could end up affecting decision making/upping the tension, and maybe that will be in the final game.

Anyone else wondering "what's to stop the hostage takers from simply killing the hostage?" Because I can see a lot of people doing that just for shits and giggles. Then I thought "perhaps they can't kill her, only 'down' her." But if that were the case, they get the advantage in planting explosives around, waiting for the rescue team to grab her, and then detonating. Or fire around/threw her without fear of repercussion, because the onus is on the rescue team to get her out of the house. We'll see where they go with it.

I'm hoping for post game cut-scenes depicting winning/losing cinematic for each team. For example, if you're the hostage takers and you succeed, there's a scene of your ransom demands being paid, or something. If you fail, there is you being taken into custody. Or even a single "cops win/kidnappers win" cut scene.

Two things really. One i dont do multiplayer so i hope there is a single player. But mostly, i hope there is more levels where you just break into one place and plan the attack. The newer games became more like Ghost Recon with huge levels. Where i liked the "terrorists in the cinema, you need to rescue them" and it was just that one building to infiltrate.

On a sad note, it looks like they have canned that other R6 game that had them fighting home grown USA terrorists - or militia i think they were. That looked interesting.

tdylan:

She is an objective, nothing more.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a standard practice, to refer to human beings as "the package" or some such terminology, in order to distance yourself and to allow you to think objectively, as opposed to having your decision making being compromised by emotion?

Maybe she is a drug mule and they are talking about the packages of cocaine in her stomach. Damn drug dealing anti terrorist unit. ;-)

tdylan:

She is an objective, nothing more.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a standard practice, to refer to human beings as "the package" or some such terminology, in order to distance yourself and to allow you to think objectively, as opposed to having your decision making being compromised by emotion?

As far as I can recall, every piece of military fiction that I've watched/read, they've referred to human beings as "the package." For example "stick with the package," or "en route with the package." While it could be interesting, I don't think a briefing of "this is Karen Jones. Mother of 4. School teacher that volunteers at a homeless shelter on the weekends" is needed. It may help the rescue team to form an emotional bond to the hostage, that could end up affecting decision making/upping the tension, and maybe that will be in the final game.

Anyone else wondering "what's to stop the hostage takers from simply killing the hostage?" Because I can see a lot of people doing that just for shits and giggles. Then I thought "perhaps they can't kill her, only 'down' her." But if that were the case, they get the advantage in planting explosives around, waiting for the rescue team to grab her, and then detonating. Or fire around/threw her without fear of repercussion, because the onus is on the rescue team to get her out of the house. We'll see where they go with it.

I'm hoping for post game cut-scenes depicting winning/losing cinematic for each team. For example, if you're the hostage takers and you succeed, there's a scene of your ransom demands being paid, or something. If you fail, there is you being taken into custody. Or even a single "cops win/kidnappers win" cut scene.

I'd wager that the hostage takers' objective is to keep the hostage inside the house as well as alive, so if she dies both teams lose.

Greg Tito:

How about a dog hostage?

Okay team, I've got the hostage! *Growl* I... Good doggie... good doggie... Um, team? Anybody got any dog biscuits? I'd rather not have my hand bitten off...

But yeah - cool as this all was (especially the team-talk actually sounding like team-talk), the idea of a woman being an 'objective' made me a bit uncomfortable as well. Hope they change it up. I didn't notice any female PCs either, but it was a bit hard to tell.

We need more niche titles. I'm interested in this, but I've had bad experiences with some of previous Clancy's mp games. They seem pretty bad at supporting them. Also, I'm pretty sure previous R6 games and Counter-Strike games had male hostages.

Simonism451:
I'd wager that the hostage takers' objective is to keep the hostage inside the house as well as alive, so if she dies both teams lose.

You must have never encountered trolls before.

There's a very simple solution.

a) Make the hostage(s) unkillable.

b) Make it so that the team that kills the hostage is the one that loses.

I imagine that it will be option a, since the defenders could do a lot to basically trick the cops into killing her. For example, placing them directly behind a door that can only be breached with explosives, or they might abuse in-game systems, such as a very, very common one where once an individual dies, their body no longer stops projectiles, meaning that any one single pass the minimum requirement to kill the bad guy could go through and kill the hostage, or just abusing the fact that bullets can go through multiple bodies, and just plain lining the hostage up with their own bodies.

I think they'll probably set up a penalty system where if you do too much damage to the hostage, you end up downing yourself automatically, maybe even knocking you out of the match.

tdylan:

She is an objective, nothing more.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a standard practice, to refer to human beings as "the package" or some such terminology, in order to distance yourself and to allow you to think objectively, as opposed to having your decision making being compromised by emotion?

As far as I can recall, every piece of military fiction that I've watched/read, they've referred to human beings as "the package." For example "stick with the package," or "en route with the package." While it could be interesting, I don't think a briefing of "this is Karen Jones. Mother of 4. School teacher that volunteers at a homeless shelter on the weekends" is needed. It may help the rescue team to form an emotional bond to the hostage, that could end up affecting decision making/upping the tension, and maybe that will be in the final game.

You're right, and it's not just in fiction either, I have some non-fictional (though romanticised) books written by Iraq and Afghanistan vets and they also talk about "packages" and "civvies" like they are just an obstacle/objective in the mission. It's a common (but not bad) thing in fields that put a lot of strain on peoples psyche (ie doctors referring to a "patient" and homicide detectives to a "victim"), it's a coping/defense mechanism not "institutionalised objectifying" or whatever today's buzzword is.

OT I think it sucks that they dropped R6 Patriots, which looked really intriguing in a Spec Ops The Line kinda way, to make a squad based co-op shooter (like we don't have those). I just don't think "gritty military realism and tension" goes well with "a good time with your mates/screaming children on Xbox Live".

And note to Ubi, destructible terrain hasn't been a unique selling point since Bad Company 2.

Also the faux soldier banter between the demo guys (and gal, which is nice to see at least) really rubbed me the wrong way.

MarsAtlas:

Simonism451:
I'd wager that the hostage takers' objective is to keep the hostage inside the house as well as alive, so if she dies both teams lose.

You must have never encountered trolls before.

There's a very simple solution.

a) Make the hostage(s) unkillable.

b) Make it so that the team that kills the hostage is the one that loses.

I imagine that it will be option a, since the defenders could do a lot to basically trick the cops into killing her. For example, placing them directly behind a door that can only be breached with explosives, or they might abuse in-game systems, such as a very, very common one where once an individual dies, their body no longer stops projectiles, meaning that any one single pass the minimum requirement to kill the bad guy could go through and kill the hostage, or just abusing the fact that bullets can go through multiple bodies, and just plain lining the hostage up with their own bodies.

I think they'll probably set up a penalty system where if you do too much damage to the hostage, you end up downing yourself automatically, maybe even knocking you out of the match.

The b) option is very likely, in most situations the criminals dont want the hostages dead since they are the only thing that gives them the upper hand and the means for demands.

Gameplay wise since this isnt real life and loosing the hostage doesnt mean much making the team loose the round is the most likely penalty.

I really dont see how "hostages" are now something of poor taste by the developers. In a shit ton of games have hostages been used as the objective, and its not even something that far from reality. Keeping the hostage alive and in their control is the goal of everyone involved in such situations.

Also I really dont see the point of making a big deal of the hostage being a woman, you guys seriously believe that the entire game will only have women to save? If it was a man would anyone bat an eye? It had to be someone.

SonOfVoorhees:
Two things really. One i dont do multiplayer so i hope there is a single player.

They already confirmed single-player and co-op although they didnt go into specifics. Its a multiplayer focused game but those things are there, maybe a small campaign or just the multiplayer maps with bots (it wouldnt even be that bad as long as you can control your guys making very similar to the great Terrorist Hunt mode). That way you could have the matches with the pacing you wanted.

The Vegas games were fun but I had more fun with the Terrorist Hunt levels honestly, the main campaign while fun never really let you loose to do it how you wanted, most of the times you simply had 2/3 ways of entering a single room with patrolling enemies. The campaign of Raven Shield is better in that aspect although I would really like to see the levels expand more (the demo for Siege seemed to be bigger then the map layout since the sniper was in another building and the other guy went there to kill her)

Sad that the Patriots theme was dropped as it looked interesting (even if a bit outdated now) but to be honest I cant complain about a Rainbow Six game that aims to be an improvement rather then just making it mroe casual (Lockdown kind of casual).

Rainbow Six: Siege is right up there with Medal of Honor: Warfighter for pointlessly tautological titles.

I don't know, it looks way too ..um hollywoodish. I think I'll stick to Door Kickers. Especially if there's no single player mode.

Shamanic Rhythm:
Rainbow Six: Siege is right up there with Medal of Honor: Warfighter for pointlessly tautological titles.

Eh, at least Siege is a word even people that don't masturbate to exploded diagrams of M16A1s are aware of and seems to fairly accurately describe what's going on in the game.

Shamanic Rhythm:
Rainbow Six: Siege is right up there with Medal of Honor: Warfighter for pointlessly tautological titles.

I don't think that either of those titles technically qualify as being tautological, there is no direct correlation between Rainbow Six and Siege, and while Warfighter does seem like a strange name Siege is actually pretty relevant.

Ahh this brings me back to the old SWAT games. Where you don't just rush the objective, spraying lead everywhere. Can't wait to play this one.

josemlopes:
The b) option is very likely, in most situations the criminals dont want the hostages dead since they are the only thing that gives them the upper hand and the means for demands.

Like I said though, I can definitely see how that can be abused, with those examples I gave. And I can see players on the police side gaming the system to shoot the hostage so that the other team won't be able to move them without making themselves vulnerable.

Sad that the Patriots theme was dropped as it looked interesting (even if a bit outdated now) but to be honest I cant complain about a Rainbow Six game that aims to be an improvement rather then just making it mroe casual (Lockdown kind of casual).

The anti-militia sentiment? Not really. Militia membership has exploded since Barack Obama was elected president, because some nutters are afraid that the pinko marxist negro muslim from Kenya is going to take all their guns away and put them in death camps unless they let death panels monitor their health activities via cameras planted in every home. I haven't seen many writers pick that up and run with it. Plus, in light of the Cliven Bundy thing, we've seen what some of these people who are really like that think and how they behave.

shinyelf:

Shamanic Rhythm:
Rainbow Six: Siege is right up there with Medal of Honor: Warfighter for pointlessly tautological titles.

I don't think that either of those titles technically qualify as being tautological, there is no direct correlation between Rainbow Six and Siege, and while Warfighter does seem like a strange name Siege is actually pretty relevant.

Yes there is. Rainbow Six is a series entirely about counter terrorism, and most if not all of your missions involve resolving hostage situations - which are often referred to as 'sieges' in common use. What's more, neither of them really add anything to differentiate from previous titles... it's not as if you've never fought wars in Medal of Honor or resolved sieges in Rainbow Six.

It would be like putting out a game called "The Sims: Life Simulator" or "Singstar: Vocalist", or even "Grand Theft Auto: Vehicular Crime".

tdylan:

She is an objective, nothing more.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a standard practice, to refer to human beings as "the package" or some such terminology, in order to distance yourself and to allow you to think objectively, as opposed to having your decision making being compromised by emotion?

That works in real life but not in a multiplayer game. I think the issue here is that this isn't really a game about rescuing a hostage, it's a game about beating the other team. One team has to get her in order to win, the other team has to keep her in order to win. So you have a realistic depiction of a terrified woman fearing for her life... trivialised down into the role of hockey puck or football.

It's capture the flag but the flag is a person. Greg says that he feels uncomfortable because the hostage is a woman, and that's fair enough, but I think he would still feel uncomfortable if the hostage was a man because beyond the sexism aspect is a more fundamental issue of trivialising human terror - a side of the uncanny valley we haven't really seen before as these game modes usually focus on collecting inanimate objects that don't beg for your help and cower.

I don't want to spend this entire post being negative though, because the actual gameplay side of things looks really promising! Made me think back to days playing SWAT 4. The shooting looked like it lacked something, maybe the recoil was a bit off, but the environment destruction was great.

So... instead of looking at this and taking away that the game looks great and that the gameplay is fitting to a Rainbow Six game. We're going to throw a fit about the title, a title that isn't bad, just because, reasons?

Britpoint:
It's capture the flag but the flag is a person. Greg says that he feels uncomfortable because the hostage is a woman, and that's fair enough, but I think he would still feel uncomfortable if the hostage was a man because beyond the sexism aspect is a more fundamental issue of trivialising human terror - a side of the uncanny valley we haven't really seen before as these game modes usually focus on collecting inanimate objects that don't beg for your help and cower.

Having had played a lot of games where you are either freeing hostages, or taking hostages, I can say that at least in my experience, the less human-like their expressions are, the less messed up it feels. I'm mean, if you humanize them too much, you're literally toying with their life and deciding what to do with them on a cost/benefit analysis. I mean players tend to split it into cost/benefit anyways, but when they're less humans and more objects, it becomes significantly less uncomfortable and much more fun.

If that is actual in-game footage I will literally eat my own dick. The animations are far too elaborate.

Looks nice and all but...No one is going to aim like that in a real match. It's like they all went to stormtrooper school. Meaning matches (and certainly firefights) are never going to last half as long before some twitchy German 12-year old has shredded everyone.

Also, the dialogue...

Apart from that, this could have potential.

If this game is going to be worth the money, it will feature a variety of maps with a variety of hostages. Maybe even a dog, but one of those small ones that the hostage keeps in her purse.

I think it would be fun to be able to unlock different types of hostages. (Lets be honest, theirs probably going to be unlocks in the multiplayer), so you could unlock a clown skin or something for your hostage.

And before people start telling me that it will make the game less intense, I bet that after playing one or two rounds and seeing all of the hostages animation and hearing all of her dialog you'll emphasize with her a lot less and start to see her as any other videogame NPC.

Looks awesome!
I love asymetric mp and the old SWAT games. I also love destructible environment that contributes to gameplay.
I hope for interesting maps (shouldnt be too difficult...) and interesting objectives.
Suprisingly, its the game I amlooking forward most after the press conferences.
Yeah, Witcher 3 looks great and FC4 will be more of the good stuff, but this looks like a game made for me personally....

Shamanic Rhythm:
Rainbow Six: Siege is right up there with Medal of Honor: Warfighter for pointlessly tautological titles.

Maybe you should look up the word tautology...a tautology would be:
Leaguer: The siege

Pro-tip: Its the opposite to a oxymoron.

HalloHerrNoob:
Maybe you should look up the word tautology...a tautology would be:
Leaguer: The siege

Pro-tip: Its the opposite to a oxymoron.

Pro-tip: a fairly common definition of 'tautology' is "the needless repetition of an idea using different words".

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Siege - Kill the Intruders - Hands on - Update

Tactical team-based slaughter has never been so destructive.

Read Full Article

Still calling it "Tom Clancy's"?

Would have thought they'd dropped that bit.

The Wooster:
If that is actual in-game footage I will literally eat my own dick. The animations are far too elaborate.

Weirdly enough a lot of the guys that tried it out didnt noticed any difference from what they showed (one even was asked just about the animations, not the overall game). I wasnt expecting them to do the animations on par with the demo but damn if they actually pull it off.

thaluikhain:
Still calling it "Tom Clancy's"?

Would have thought they'd dropped that bit.

I guess its in for brand recognition. His books are popular.

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