Watch Dogs PC Modders Find Hidden "E3" Settings, Improve Performance - Update

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Illessa:

Halyah:

Ultratwinkie:
Found some code in W_D:

image

They were really so stupid as to leave something like that in the code and then release the game to a playerbase famous for scouring through code for just about anything under the sun? Did they really think that was gonna go unnoticed?

I seriously doubt they did. No way decompiled code would look like that, the comment wouldn't be there, and that #else stuff is specifically compile-time logic that would vanish in the final files (that's literally the point of that syntax). So either W_D shipped with uncompiled C knocking about (veeeeeery unlikely), the source code leaked (which might be the case, but the coders would have no reason to expect it and sanitise their comments), or that snippet is made up/from somewhere else.

Without looking at the actual code myself(having problems finding the original posting of it, just references) looking at the screenshot there, that looks like shader code, not engine code.

Shader code isn't compiled like the native engine code.

As for the topic on a whole? Pfffthahahahahahahahahahahahaha haha aaahhh hahah. Man. I bet there's a couple of people that will be getting pink pieces of paper this week.

Ultratwinkie:

Microsoft proves that decisions that console makers choose has a profound effect on games.

Xbone's ESRAM is the prime example. Devs need to use mega textures, a tactic from the 90s that makes the textures look worse than last gen, to get around the xbone's lack of RAM. Something that is already biting the PS4 in the ass, and it looks like only exclusives will take it to its full potential.

Developers are not the sole cause for badly made games. Sometimes console makers force them into it. Ubisoft however has chosen to make a bad game. Which not many developers do. A lot of the time its the way the consoles are made that stops them. They don't do what Ubisoft does.

Where exactly is the evidence of this forcing? Even with ESRAM limitations they aren't forced to put it on the Xbone. Many devs cry foul about the Wii U and don't put it on that, so why don't they do the same to the Xbone?

Piorn:

Also, I don't think it's malicious intent or anything. I wouldn't be surprised if the Console Manufacturers paid them quite some money to make it look like the current console generation isn't already obsolete Hardwarewise, and somehow produces the same graphics as PC.
That backfired nicely.

Did the big three stage 9/11 too? They own those black helicopters?
Why would they pay for a downgrade on PC when their business is doing fine. Why not pay to not have it on PC instead? If you are going to push a conspiracy theory than at least push it right.

Did it never cross your mind that something like this could well be Ubisoft's own doing without any outside force? After all if PC gaming was dead they'd be making more money so there is an interest there.

alj:

I don't know who is at fault console makers for forcing ubisoft to also downgrade the PC version, ubisoft for listening to them or setting there sights too high for hardware that is already out of date by a good few years, or the customers for still paying for ubisoft to screw them over. If you want to play the game (and it does look like fun) wait a few weeks or for the first steam sale this will send a bigger message to ubisoft than any amount of spam to the directors.

Citation needed on the apparent gun to Ubisoft's head by the big three.

Rozalia1:

Ultratwinkie:

Microsoft proves that decisions that console makers choose has a profound effect on games.

Xbone's ESRAM is the prime example. Devs need to use mega textures, a tactic from the 90s that makes the textures look worse than last gen, to get around the xbone's lack of RAM. Something that is already biting the PS4 in the ass, and it looks like only exclusives will take it to its full potential.

Developers are not the sole cause for badly made games. Sometimes console makers force them into it. Ubisoft however has chosen to make a bad game. Which not many developers do. A lot of the time its the way the consoles are made that stops them. They don't do what Ubisoft does.

Where exactly is the evidence of this forcing? Even with ESRAM limitations they aren't forced to put it on the Xbone. Many devs cry foul about the Wii U and don't put it on that, so why don't they do the same to the Xbone?

Piorn:

Also, I don't think it's malicious intent or anything. I wouldn't be surprised if the Console Manufacturers paid them quite some money to make it look like the current console generation isn't already obsolete Hardwarewise, and somehow produces the same graphics as PC.
That backfired nicely.

Did the big three stage 9/11 too? They own those black helicopters?
Why would they pay for a downgrade on PC when their business is doing fine. Why not pay to not have it on PC instead? If you are going to push a conspiracy theory than at least push it right.

Did it never cross your mind that something like this could well be Ubisoft's own doing without any outside force? After all if PC gaming was dead they'd be making more money so there is an interest there.

alj:

I don't know who is at fault console makers for forcing ubisoft to also downgrade the PC version, ubisoft for listening to them or setting there sights too high for hardware that is already out of date by a good few years, or the customers for still paying for ubisoft to screw them over. If you want to play the game (and it does look like fun) wait a few weeks or for the first steam sale this will send a bigger message to ubisoft than any amount of spam to the directors.

Citation needed on the apparent gun to Ubisoft's head by the big three.

The difference is that the Wii U is selling so poorly and its so weak that no developer wants to do anything with it. Nintendo just walked in on the worst generation, and its basically the xbox 360 in terms of power. Nintendo was never a mainstream console for mainstream ports anyway. The Wii was the console of shovelware.

Microsoft on the other hand has been mainstream and has for 20 years. Not to mention that multiplats need to be on the most consoles as it can to make money. If they want the money microsoft offers, they have to support it. They support it because its been gaming tradition. The difference is that people bought the xbone and continue to do so.

They are forced to support xbox the same way Japan is forced to support consoles.

And Ubisoft would get less money if PC gaming died. It gets 100% of the profits from PC copies, where console copies take over 30% for retailer and distribution fees.

Consoles are full of fees, and thats why games are so expensive there.

Dare I hope to see an Emergency Jimquisition on this? It's so ridiculous, I don't really even know what there is to say on the subject. I just want to nod my head in catharsis while he rants.

alj:
And that comment ? Strange. Usually a de-compiler cannot find comments in the code as the compiler skipped over them but they may have used some setting in the compiler to preserve the comments in the binary file, possibly so it could be de-compiled later on so they can make a "HD" version for the PS5 and XBOX next one. What i find strange is a company as retarded as ubisoft has the good sense to comment there code in the first place.

Doubt it, that would be dumb. Why would they decompile their own code? I've never known a big corporation to just chuck out their source code as soon as they ship (and I work in the VCS space so I've seen the kind of crazy webs of ancient projects these companies end up with). If nothing else you never know when an old codebase will have some asset that you can chop up and reuse in a new project :).

Areloch:
Without looking at the actual code myself(having problems finding the original posting of it, just references) looking at the screenshot there, that looks like shader code, not engine code.

Shader code isn't compiled like the native engine code.

As for the topic on a whole? Pfffthahahahahahahahahahahahaha haha aaahhh hahah. Man. I bet there's a couple of people that will be getting pink pieces of paper this week.

Oh of course, mystery solved, thankyou :). Been years since I dabbled in graphics programming so I saw the conditional inclusions and just went "Wah?" Yeah they probably should have taken the time to sanitise their visible code for that kind of thing. Then again I'm sure someone did get that task and they just grepped for swearwords and called it a job well done :P.

To the people asking WHY this happened: It's because Sony and/or Microsoft pressured Ubisoft to keep the PC version in line with the console one AND/OR because Ubisoft themselves want their games to be bought on consoles more than on the PC. Which is all mildly understandable - consoles offer more control over a product to the publisher instead of the consumer. It's more of a closed and controlled platform. A better looking/performing PC version would draw people to that platform, which doesn't help publishers and console manufacturers.

But that's not what puzzles me; the reasons as to why this happened are quite clear.

What baffles me is the fact that Ubisoft thought nobody would notice! Seriously, by this point it's quite evident that there is (and to be honest, has been for a looong time) a demographic of people with high levels of skill when it comes to software code and who love to take apart games and see what's in there. You can't hide shit from these people, they live to dig through it all and find every bit of cut content. They've been doing it since gaming got rolling. You can't assume all your customers are idiots in this business. ESPECIALLY in THIS business, where a lot of the people you cater to work in the same industry as you, or related branches.

Granted, Ubisoft DOES seem to think everyone is stupid, as evidenced by the assorted kerfuffles surrounding the new AssCreed...

Areloch:

Illessa:

Halyah:
They were really so stupid as to leave something like that in the code and then release the game to a playerbase famous for scouring through code for just about anything under the sun? Did they really think that was gonna go unnoticed?

I seriously doubt they did. No way decompiled code would look like that, the comment wouldn't be there, and that #else stuff is specifically compile-time logic that would vanish in the final files (that's literally the point of that syntax). So either W_D shipped with uncompiled C knocking about (veeeeeery unlikely), the source code leaked (which might be the case, but the coders would have no reason to expect it and sanitise their comments), or that snippet is made up/from somewhere else.

Without looking at the actual code myself(having problems finding the original posting of it, just references) looking at the screenshot there, that looks like shader code, not engine code.

Shader code isn't compiled like the native engine code.

As for the topic on a whole? Pfffthahahahahahahahahahahahaha haha aaahhh hahah. Man. I bet there's a couple of people that will be getting pink pieces of paper this week.

Not knowing the language it's in I could be wrong but that code doesn't look legit anyway, weird order of #else and #endif. It could work (if this was the last bit of a nested set of if else's) but it'd require more outside of that piece of code to be functional.

Every person that is able to think a little bit knows that the "Consoles look like high-end PCs" BS is BS, they might look like ones from 2-3 years back, sure, but doing this? Is just really really sad how someone could be that desperate to look good, and yet fail so hard at it.

It's like these companies still think people will believe that games are being played on consoles when they show their "awesome game graphics" when it's been known for a while that most "Visual" demos are being run on PCs.

Vault101:
why would Ubi do this to themselves? if there wasn't some legit technical reason (and honestly are you going to belive them at this point?)

Frozengale:
5 bucks says they'll come out with a statement that says they changed the graphical settings of the PC version to be more in line with the console versions.

everything I just said and an even bigger WHYYY???

Only pirates play on PC after all?

I honestly have no idea but the last time an Ubisoft game didn't run like arse on my PC never happened in the first place. I'm still not going to buy Watch Dogs.

Ultratwinkie:

The difference is that the Wii U is selling so poorly and its so weak that no developer wants to do anything with it. Nintendo just walked in on the worst generation, and its basically the xbox 360 in terms of power. Nintendo was never a mainstream console for mainstream ports anyway. The Wii was the console of shovelware.

Microsoft on the other hand has been mainstream and has for 20 years. Not to mention that multiplats need to be on the most consoles as it can to make money. If they want the money microsoft offers, they have to support it. They support it because its been gaming tradition. The difference is that people bought the xbone and continue to do so.

They are forced to support xbox the same way Japan is forced to support consoles.

And Ubisoft would get less money if PC gaming died. It gets 100% of the profits from PC copies, where console copies take over 30% for retailer and distribution fees.

Consoles are full of fees, and thats why games are so expensive there.

So why are loads of those companies also putting their games on the PS360 when the Wii U "is too weak". No they can easily manage to put it on the Wii U, they just choose not and you champion that fact as it means "a better experience for you". Yet you hate this fact where sabotage happened?
So yay on them sabotaging Nintendo, but nay on them sabotaging the PC? Sounds childish to me.

If you support their efforts against Nintendo, than you have no right to get angry at them screwing you unless you're going to be a blatant hypocrite.

20 years? You including windows, or that really old console they had way back when? You forgeting that Nindendo is basically synonymous with gaming, they are very much mainstream.

That is on the face of it. They'd be giving up control, and you should know how scared they are of PC pirates. Can you imagine how they'd feel in a PC platform only world?
Yes I know when reading that you'll be typing console piracy as a response, but you already know what the easy responses are to your questions.

Jandau:
To the people asking WHY this happened: It's because Sony and/or Microsoft pressured Ubisoft to keep the PC version in line with the console one AND/OR because Ubisoft themselves want their games to be bought on consoles more than on the PC. Which is all mildly understandable - consoles offer more control over a product to the publisher instead of the consumer. It's more of a closed and controlled platform. A better looking/performing PC version would draw people to that platform, which doesn't help publishers and console manufacturers.

Really getting tired of this...where is your (and everyone elses)evidence that there is any forcing going on by the big three (I notice you're at least smart enough to not put Nintendo there).

Also these graphics would draw people to the PC platform... are we in the 1990s? You really believe that the big three has undergo a campaign to hide the fact better graphics are possible on PC?
Graphics being better on the PC is well known, and yet the sales of most titles show that it really doesn't matter.

ScaredScorpion:
Not knowing the language it's in I could be wrong but that code doesn't look legit anyway, weird order of #else and #endif. It could work (if this was the last bit of a nested set of if else's) but it'd require more outside of that piece of code to be functional.

Yeah, it's obviously a snippet, and a lot of nested #ifs make sense for code that has been heavily optimised on a per-platform basis. The language is a C-derivative, probably HLSL - as Areloch pointed out it looks like a shader.

[EDIT]

Rozalia1:
Really getting tired of this...where is your (and everyone elses)evidence that there is any forcing going on by the big three (I notice you're at least smart enough to not put Nintendo there).

Also these graphics would draw people to the PC platform... are we in the 1990s? You really believe that the big three has undergo a campaign to hide the fact better graphics are possible on PC?
Graphics being better on the PC is well known, and yet the sales of most titles show that it really doesn't matter.

Veering away from coding geekery I actually agree with this, MS/Sony have a vested interest in appearing good for sure, but I doubt they needed to put much pressure on Ubi. Real, meaningful fancy settings on PC have always been the domain of people who actually care about the platform (CD Projekt for instance), and Ubi definitely aren't on that list. I'm sure as soon as they realised these settings were going to be difficult/impossible to optimise on consoles, they just ditched them rather than spend dev/QA time on a feature that would only be available on what they consider to be a tertiary platform.

The problem isn't PCs being held back by some conspiracy, it's features being implemented in order to make fancy demos/trailers (the over-the-top DOF and bloom, Aiden's constantly damp coat, were all obviously crafted to look good in the demo, not to function well across the whole game). Basically it's a less extreme Colonial Marines' false advertising all over again.

Rozalia1:

Ultratwinkie:

The difference is that the Wii U is selling so poorly and its so weak that no developer wants to do anything with it. Nintendo just walked in on the worst generation, and its basically the xbox 360 in terms of power. Nintendo was never a mainstream console for mainstream ports anyway. The Wii was the console of shovelware.

Microsoft on the other hand has been mainstream and has for 20 years. Not to mention that multiplats need to be on the most consoles as it can to make money. If they want the money microsoft offers, they have to support it. They support it because its been gaming tradition. The difference is that people bought the xbone and continue to do so.

They are forced to support xbox the same way Japan is forced to support consoles.

And Ubisoft would get less money if PC gaming died. It gets 100% of the profits from PC copies, where console copies take over 30% for retailer and distribution fees.

Consoles are full of fees, and thats why games are so expensive there.

So why are loads of those companies also putting their games on the PS360 when the Wii U "is too weak". No they can easily manage to put it on the Wii U, they just choose not and you champion that fact as it means "a better experience for you". Yet you hate this fact where sabotage happened?
So yay on them sabotaging Nintendo, but nay on them sabotaging the PC? Sounds childish to me.

If you support their efforts against Nintendo, than you have no right to get angry at them screwing you unless you're going to be a blatant hypocrite.

20 years? You including windows, or that really old console they had way back when? You forgeting that Nindendo is basically synonymous with gaming, they are very much mainstream.

That is on the face of it. They'd be giving up control, and you should know how scared they are of PC pirates. Can you imagine how they'd feel in a PC platform only world?
Yes I know when reading that you'll be typing console piracy as a response, but you already know what the easy responses are to your questions.

Jandau:
To the people asking WHY this happened: It's because Sony and/or Microsoft pressured Ubisoft to keep the PC version in line with the console one AND/OR because Ubisoft themselves want their games to be bought on consoles more than on the PC. Which is all mildly understandable - consoles offer more control over a product to the publisher instead of the consumer. It's more of a closed and controlled platform. A better looking/performing PC version would draw people to that platform, which doesn't help publishers and console manufacturers.

Really getting tired of this...where is your (and everyone elses)evidence that there is any forcing going on by the big three (I notice you're at least smart enough to not put Nintendo there).

Also these graphics would draw people to the PC platform... are we in the 1990s? You really believe that the big three has undergo a campaign to hide the fact better graphics are possible on PC?
Graphics being better on the PC is well known, and yet the sales of most titles show that it really doesn't matter.

Because its simple. Those consoles have an actual market and an actual excuse. Those consoles are 10 years old. The Wii U is new, has no following, and is weak by modern standards. Weaker compared to its competition in the very same generation. It falls into the very same trap that developers don't like.

Wii U is weak. No one owns it. And its brand new to top all of this off. The other next gen consoles shit all over it in both sales and power. Even the xbone. Developers are done making 7th gen games, and Nintendo just barely got to 7th gen power. That's why this year's E3 was all about next gen.

They were mainstream 30 years ago. Back in the age of the dinosaurs and Ronald Reagan. Their golden age ended 20 years ago in the age of Clinton. Its now been roughly 10 years since they mattered in the mainstream space. Halo, COD, God of War, etc have all dethroned Nintendo.

Nintendo relies on Nostalgia. The new generation has nostalgia for games too edgy for Nintendo. You should know that when Halo became retro along with Medal of Honor. Now that those kids grew up without childhood memories of Nintendo, it lost its main draw. It will only get worse from here on out.

No amount of your Nostalgia will change that. Nintendo isn't slipping, it already slipped. We all knew this was coming.

Ubisoft is scared of everything. Even Pre-owned games. If it was PC only, they would ruin their sales by pulling shit like this. Just like Microsoft ruined their sales when they tried to take away used games.

Consumers are not at fault for someone else's unfounded fears. They would go bankrupt in that market, and nothing would be wrong about it. Free market with actual competition from the little guy, unlike the console monopoly.

And what sabotage? Its Ubisoft pushing out another cheaply made cash grab. I saw it a mile away. All their games are gimped.

Watch Dogs is a zombie game they should have left in its grave. But they didn't because money.

people are not giving this guy enough credit:

TheWors3:
Many people misunderstand what that screenshot meant, the E3 fRain command controls just the value of how much rain to apply from the default settings, but I've done more research to for example make the rain react to light properly. Because of this screenshot many people at neogaf think what i've done is just 1 and 0.

The mod improves performance for High and Ultra quality only, because of ubisoft's lazyness they just used plain commands for the lod dither, lod values and shadowmaps sizes which turns into a complete stuttering experience. I tuned down and changed the values of this. I can make stuttering even less but it'll make the shadow quality to be "worse"

Source

Also looks like Ubisoft wants the worst company in america title now that they got a chance since EA finally left that position.

dragongit:
This is almost as bad as the whole Dark souls had the fix to their game written in their code, but this seems much worse. They are hiding complete graphical options away. On top of that, I've heard stories people have been seeing improved performance WITH said graphics. How do you take shit away, and make it perform worse at the same time?

if you mean the Dark SOuls resolution fix, then it was written by a DirectX god who enjoys fixing stuff like this and many developers now acutally send him an early copy so he could point out flaws he notices because hes much better at it that most developers.

black_knight1337:

Ultratwinkie:
Reddit is planning to flood ubisoft with refunds, chargebacks, lawsuits, and a shit load of other shit.

Because they have legal grounds to do so...

1. They are nto doing it for money, but to send Ubisoft a message of their displeasure, because they think the best way to get companys attention is to threaten to take their money away.
2. In European Union they actually do have legal ground.

WouldYouKindly:
I mean seriously, it makes the game look and perform better? I'd love to know why Ubisoft decided it'd be a good idea to remove these features.

its a meta thing. the actually game of Watch Dogs is the one of hacking the game files!

Rozalia1:

Why would they pay for a downgrade on PC when their business is doing fine. Why not pay to not have it on PC instead? If you are going to push a conspiracy theory than at least push it right.

doing fine?
Xbox division that overall is a loss to Microsoft (only lately started being profitable and havent covered the loss yet) thats also struggling to sell machines.
Sony reporting massive losses and clsoing divisions while their entertainment remains theri only lifeboat (so they are going to do everything they can to keep it as profitable as they can)
Nintedo has everincreasing loss while thier console isnt selling well at all, a 3 times younger PS4 has outsold it already.

So no, they arent doing well, they are struggling to the point of getting desperate.

ScaredScorpion:

Not knowing the language it's in I could be wrong but that code doesn't look legit anyway, weird order of #else and #endif. It could work (if this was the last bit of a nested set of if else's) but it'd require more outside of that piece of code to be functional.

well, if you look at the line numbers to the left, its clearly missing a begining of over 40 lines, so its very likely its an end of some bigger nest.
then again, my programmign skills ends with VBA so i may be wrong.

The White Hunter:

I honestly have no idea but the last time an Ubisoft game didn't run like arse on my PC never happened in the first place. I'm still not going to buy Watch Dogs.

hey, hey, Assasins Creed 1 ran just fine!

3 words ubisoft,
u dun goofed.

I used to stick up for Ubisoft,
I'm a die hard fan of the Assassin's Creed series,
but this on top of the "women are hard to draw" crap from last week has tipped this calm gamer over the edge!

Pitch forks at the ready!

CAPTCHA: loaf of bread, no thanks, just had me lunch :)

Strazdas:
4

The White Hunter:

I honestly have no idea but the last time an Ubisoft game didn't run like arse on my PC never happened in the first place. I'm still not going to buy Watch Dogs.

hey, hey, Assasins Creed 1 ran just fine!

Nothing but slanderous lies.

Also AC1 sucks balls anyway.

crimson5pheonix:
I hope this causes more than a few crashes for Ubisoft's sake. Otherwise they are going to look so bad when this becomes well known.

EDIT:

Ultratwinkie:
Found some code in W_D:

image

snip

Welp. Nevermind then. Grab the torches and pitchforks.

From what I've heard, that line of code specifically effects consoles, so it makes sense not to care about it for the PC version.

*edit* I feel like it's very sad that I've been defending Ubisoft lately. I don't even like any of their fucking games.

Wasn't this game supposed to be developed with the PC in mind? I meant that's the only place you're going to show off the real cutting edge and if they wanted to live up to their marketing it would be worth at l;east having one decent version. The Dynamic headlights thing baffles me.

It looks like the PC version was just a straight port but with basic LOD settings bumped up to a crushing level. It seems they never bothered to implement actual PC only features. It is baffling to me they would do it this way round. It's like they are actively trying to shit on the PC audience.

PC gaming is HUGE right now, even after the doom saying of people like movie bob (He could do with a special called "Why i was 1000 miles off the mark") and it's still getting bigger. Why piss off that dedicated audience?

The Escapist did not report that comment "This is PC only, who cares".
Awesome, job well done, Escapist.
So many websites brought it up, not explaining what it actually means in context (because they don't know).
But it's potentially inflammatory, so you HAVE TO report it. Dolla dolla bill, yall.
Spoiler alert: It's not a knock on PC, rather the opposite actually.

On one hand I'm now actually interested in playing Watch Dogs, on the other hand I'm now not buying it because of principles and shit.

Strazdas:
1. They are nto doing it for money, but to send Ubisoft a message of their displeasure, because they think the best way to get companys attention is to threaten to take their money away.

Of course, the only way things will change will be when they start losing money. I doubt it'd actually get anywhere or have any long term impact though. Really depends on what their response is.

2. In European Union they actually do have legal ground.

Bindal:
I'm pretty sure that, if Ubisoft deliberately made the performance worse, they have the legal ground for a lawsuit and/or refunds.

Of course, law are different in other parts of the world so I might be missing something. But even IF they did intentionally sabotage the PC version, it would be almost impossible to prove. You could claim false advertising but the fact that it's a two year old demo couple with the fact that the pre-launch advertising was accurate hurts that claim significantly.

Rozalia1:

Jandau:
To the people asking WHY this happened: It's because Sony and/or Microsoft pressured Ubisoft to keep the PC version in line with the console one AND/OR because Ubisoft themselves want their games to be bought on consoles more than on the PC. Which is all mildly understandable - consoles offer more control over a product to the publisher instead of the consumer. It's more of a closed and controlled platform. A better looking/performing PC version would draw people to that platform, which doesn't help publishers and console manufacturers.

Really getting tired of this...where is your (and everyone elses)evidence that there is any forcing going on by the big three (I notice you're at least smart enough to not put Nintendo there).

You want proof, well getting our hands on Ubisofts financing would be damn hard but what about this?

So yeah thats pretty much a smoking gun right there, you have Ubisofts PR guys running around claiming that the PS4 version will the "definitive version" while they are working with Sony in cross promotions with Sony, Ubisoft, the PS4 and Watch Dogs. Thats just one link, click here if you want to see how much time Ubisoft went around trumpeting that the PS4 release of Watch Dogs will the the "definitive version".

Then it turns out the deliberately disabled features in the PC version that would make it look better, how much more "proof" do you need? Thats pretty much case closed unless someone is determined to follow a pre conceived bias that flies in the face of facts.

Ultratwinkie:

Because its simple. Those consoles have an actual market and an actual excuse. Those consoles are 10 years old. The Wii U is new, has no following, and is weak by modern standards. Weaker compared to its competition in the very same generation. It falls into the very same trap that developers don't like.

Wii U is weak. No one owns it. And its brand new to top all of this off. The other next gen consoles shit all over it in both sales and power. Even the xbone. Developers are done making 7th gen games, and Nintendo just barely got to 7th gen power. That's why this year's E3 was all about next gen.

They were mainstream 30 years ago. Back in the age of the dinosaurs and Ronald Reagan. Their golden age ended 20 years ago in the age of Clinton. Its now been roughly 10 years since they mattered in the mainstream space. Halo, COD, God of War, etc have all dethroned Nintendo.

Nintendo relies on Nostalgia. The new generation has nostalgia for games too edgy for Nintendo. You should know that when Halo became retro along with Medal of Honor. Now that those kids grew up without childhood memories of Nintendo, it lost its main draw. It will only get worse from here on out.

No amount of your Nostalgia will change that. Nintendo isn't slipping, it already slipped. We all knew this was coming.

Ubisoft is scared of everything. Even Pre-owned games. If it was PC only, they would ruin their sales by pulling shit like this. Just like Microsoft ruined their sales when they tried to take away used games.

Consumers are not at fault for someone else's unfounded fears. They would go bankrupt in that market, and nothing would be wrong about it. Free market with actual competition from the little guy, unlike the console monopoly.

And what sabotage? Its Ubisoft pushing out another cheaply made cash grab. I saw it a mile away. All their games are gimped.

Watch Dogs is a zombie game they should have left in its grave. But they didn't because money.

There are more PS2s out there than there are PS3/360s so by your logic why aren't they pushing a PS2 version? Its down to them, no releases, downgrades, taken features, and so forth is all down to the dev.

Nintendo aren't some little unknown company actually, even those "dudebros" as they are apparently called have at the very least heard of Nindendo and its titles.

People were saying that Nintendo was finished 10 years ago, and they'll likely say it in 10 years time too.

Strazdas:
doing fine?
Xbox division that overall is a loss to Microsoft (only lately started being profitable and havent covered the loss yet) thats also struggling to sell machines.
Sony reporting massive losses and clsoing divisions while their entertainment remains theri only lifeboat (so they are going to do everything they can to keep it as profitable as they can)
Nintedo has everincreasing loss while thier console isnt selling well at all, a 3 times younger PS4 has outsold it already.

So no, they arent doing well, they are struggling to the point of getting desperate.

Xbox has always been that way and they aren't really struggling to shift machines, they may not have PS4 level sales but they have plenty of time to avoid a disaster (look at the PS3).

Stretching to find any excuse with Sony aren't you now? Can't find anything in gaming so you'll just fish elsewhere...

Nintendo has been in the business a long time, they'll recoup as they always do, and besides what would Nintendo even have to do with this sort of thing? The PC platform likely don't even register to Nintendo, as in they really couldn't care less for it. They haven't promoted "top graphics" in a long long time.

So Ubisoft are being big meanieheads and have shown they don't care about you, and your platform...and you're blaming the big three still? Either you're a really big Ubisoft mark which is why you want to shift the blame elsewhere, or you're a PC mark who hates on the competition to nonsense levels because you have to justify being a mark.

I can only come to two rational conclusions from this:

1. Ubisoft hates PC gamers so much they would willingly sabotage the platform as punishment (although forcing Uplay is punishment enough, honestly)

2. They deliberately made it worse so that it wouldn't look superior to the "next gen" consoles. This game was no doubt supposed to be a system seller and showing just how much better it would look on PC kind of takes away from the magic of "next gen"

I mean, it looks better AND performs better (insert mindblown.gif) there is NO logical reason not to deliberately take that away. This would seem like legal grounds to sue them, they deliberately and willingly sabotaged their own game while promising a much better experience.

Rozalia1:

Ultratwinkie:

Because its simple. Those consoles have an actual market and an actual excuse. Those consoles are 10 years old. The Wii U is new, has no following, and is weak by modern standards. Weaker compared to its competition in the very same generation. It falls into the very same trap that developers don't like.

Wii U is weak. No one owns it. And its brand new to top all of this off. The other next gen consoles shit all over it in both sales and power. Even the xbone. Developers are done making 7th gen games, and Nintendo just barely got to 7th gen power. That's why this year's E3 was all about next gen.

They were mainstream 30 years ago. Back in the age of the dinosaurs and Ronald Reagan. Their golden age ended 20 years ago in the age of Clinton. Its now been roughly 10 years since they mattered in the mainstream space. Halo, COD, God of War, etc have all dethroned Nintendo.

Nintendo relies on Nostalgia. The new generation has nostalgia for games too edgy for Nintendo. You should know that when Halo became retro along with Medal of Honor. Now that those kids grew up without childhood memories of Nintendo, it lost its main draw. It will only get worse from here on out.

No amount of your Nostalgia will change that. Nintendo isn't slipping, it already slipped. We all knew this was coming.

Ubisoft is scared of everything. Even Pre-owned games. If it was PC only, they would ruin their sales by pulling shit like this. Just like Microsoft ruined their sales when they tried to take away used games.

Consumers are not at fault for someone else's unfounded fears. They would go bankrupt in that market, and nothing would be wrong about it. Free market with actual competition from the little guy, unlike the console monopoly.

And what sabotage? Its Ubisoft pushing out another cheaply made cash grab. I saw it a mile away. All their games are gimped.

Watch Dogs is a zombie game they should have left in its grave. But they didn't because money.

There are more PS2s out there than there are PS3/360s so by your logic why aren't they pushing a PS2 version? Its down to them, no releases, downgrades, taken features, and so forth is all down to the dev.

Nintendo aren't some little unknown company actually, even those "dudebros" as they are apparently called have at the very least heard of Nindendo and its titles.

People were saying that Nintendo was finished 10 years ago, and they'll likely say it in 10 years time too.

Strazdas:
doing fine?
Xbox division that overall is a loss to Microsoft (only lately started being profitable and havent covered the loss yet) thats also struggling to sell machines.
Sony reporting massive losses and clsoing divisions while their entertainment remains theri only lifeboat (so they are going to do everything they can to keep it as profitable as they can)
Nintedo has everincreasing loss while thier console isnt selling well at all, a 3 times younger PS4 has outsold it already.

So no, they arent doing well, they are struggling to the point of getting desperate.

Xbox has always been that way and they aren't really struggling to shift machines, they may not have PS4 level sales but they have plenty of time to avoid a disaster (look at the PS3).

Stretching to find any excuse with Sony aren't you now? Can't find anything in gaming so you'll just fish elsewhere...

Nintendo has been in the business a long time, they'll recoup as they always do, and besides what would Nintendo even have to do with this sort of thing? The PC platform likely don't even register to Nintendo, as in they really couldn't care less for it. They haven't promoted "top graphics" in a long long time.

So Ubisoft are being big meanieheads and have shown they don't care about you, and your platform...and you're blaming the big three still? Either you're a really big Ubisoft mark which is why you want to shift the blame elsewhere, or you're a PC mark who hates on the competition to nonsense levels because you have to justify being a mark.

Because now the ps2 is too old. Just like the PS3 and Xbox 360 is too old. Right now they are pushing Next gen, and leaving old gen behind. Its now a unified effort to get people to switch. Devs support those consoles because people will be switching to them and they will become the norm.

That, and the ps2 is obsolete since it doesn't support modern TVs and games on the new consoles outshine old ones. A ps2 game wn't compete with a PS4 game. People will always go for the PS4. Devs on consoles don't actually make any decisions, its the executives in the publishing department. Who are informed by charts and figures and the CEO.

Devs do what they are told on console. On PC, that doesn't happen. Two consoles are supported because the higher ups find the cost to profit potential to be negligible. The Wii U isn't because its a disaster on all sides, especially on the technical level. Its all about power, age, and where the market is going.

And the market is leaning to more powerful hardware on more mainstream names. Nintendo is known for childhood nostalgia, and without that they are nothing.

Knowing about a franchise is not the same as buying it. No one is buying Nintendo. Nintendo is on a downward slope, and the wii was a fluke that only delayed it.

Did they invest in the future with the money? No, they kept on expecting everything to be fine until it wasn't.

And now the wii U is DOA, and the money is draining fast. They didn't listen to dev demands and now they are paying for it.

Ill tell you what I told JEFFERS:

I am sure SEGA fans thought their company was invincible too.

J Tyran:

Rozalia1:

Jandau:
To the people asking WHY this happened: It's because Sony and/or Microsoft pressured Ubisoft to keep the PC version in line with the console one AND/OR because Ubisoft themselves want their games to be bought on consoles more than on the PC. Which is all mildly understandable - consoles offer more control over a product to the publisher instead of the consumer. It's more of a closed and controlled platform. A better looking/performing PC version would draw people to that platform, which doesn't help publishers and console manufacturers.

Really getting tired of this...where is your (and everyone elses)evidence that there is any forcing going on by the big three (I notice you're at least smart enough to not put Nintendo there).

You want proof, well getting our hands on Ubisofts financing would be damn hard but what about this?

So yeah thats pretty much a smoking gun right there, you have Ubisofts PR guys running around claiming that the PS4 version will the "definitive version" while they are working with Sony in cross promotions with Sony, Ubisoft, the PS4 and Watch Dogs. Thats just one link, click here if you want to see how much time Ubisoft went around trumpeting that the PS4 release of Watch Dogs will the the "definitive version".

Then it turns out the deliberately disabled features in the PC version that would make it look better, how much more "proof" do you need? Thats pretty much case closed unless someone is determined to follow a pre conceived bias that flies in the face of facts.

Really now you're passing rumors, and the fact Sony promotes something as evidence that your conspiracy theory is fact?

Ultratwinkie:

Its well known you never buy from Ubisoft.

They sure as fuck like to fuck it up with dumb shit, and the dumb shit that ruins the game certainly doesnt need to be bought (like Watch Dogs), but fuck me if I ever regretted buying Driver San Francisco, Assassins Creed Blackflag, Splinter Cell Blacklist, both Far Cry 3 and Blood Dragon, and Shoot Many Robots.

If the fuck up is what makes you not want the game or the game itself doesnt interest you then fine, dont buy it, makes complete sense, but to not buy something simply because its tied to things that didnt affect the product you are interested doesnt seem fair to me.

A lot of people didnt bought Titanfall but were interested in it simply because it was EA even after the fact that the game didnt suffer from any of the issues that EA games are known for (being the only issue present the fact that you needed Origin, but that is an excuse that doesnt hold up much if the user doesnt object Steam either)

At least when it goes for cheap, i can pick it up and have a mod make it look awesome.

Really hope TB does a video update on this.

Ultratwinkie:
Because now the ps2 is too old. Just like the PS3 and Xbox 360 is too old. Right now they are pushing Next gen, and leaving old gen behind. Its now a unified effort to get people to switch. Devs support those consoles because people will be switching to them and they will become the norm.

That, and the ps2 is obsolete since it doesn't support modern TVs and games on the new consoles outshine old ones. A ps2 game wn't compete with a PS4 game. People will always go for the PS4. Devs on consoles don't actually make any decisions, its the executives in the publishing department. Who are informed by charts and figures and the CEO.

Devs do what they are told on console. On PC, that doesn't happen. Two consoles are supported because the higher ups find the cost to profit potential to be negligible. The Wii U isn't because its a disaster on all sides, especially on the technical level. Its all about power, age, and where the market is going.

And the market is leaning to more powerful hardware on more mainstream names. Nintendo is known for childhood nostalgia, and without that they are nothing.

Knowing about a franchise is not the same as buying it. No one is buying Nintendo. Nintendo is on a downward slope, and the wii was a fluke that only delayed it.

Did they invest in the future with the money? No, they kept on expecting everything to be fine until it wasn't.

And now the wii U is DOA, and the money is draining fast. They didn't listen to dev demands and now they are paying for it.

Fifa games still have PS2 versions year after year, and the second/third world where the PS2 has a good base still exists.
People have been hyping Nintendo's death forever so don't be too confident.

josemlopes:

Ultratwinkie:

Its well known you never buy from Ubisoft.

They sure as fuck like to fuck it up with dumb shit, and the dumb shit that ruins the game certainly doesnt need to be bought (like Watch Dogs), but fuck me if I ever regretted buying Driver San Francisco, Assassins Creed Blackflag, Splinter Cell Blacklist, both Far Cry 3 and Blood Dragon, and Shoot Many Robots.

If the fuck up is what makes you not want the game or the game itself doesnt interest you then fine, dont buy it, makes complete sense, but to not buy something simply because its tied to things that didnt affect to product you are interested doesnt seem fair to me.

A lot of people didnt bought Titanfall but were interested in it simply because it was EA even after the fact that the game didnt suffer from any of the issues that EA games are known for (being the only issue present the fact that you needed Origin, but that is an excuse that doesnt hold up much if the user doesnt object Steam either)

People were pissed when Uplay went down and shut down all their games on Watch Dog's launch day. That's why you never buy from Ubisoft, and if you do you schedule your playtime around their launch schedule.

It was on reddit for a week. It became news. Every PC gaming forum whined about Uplay fucking up shit. On top of this, Ubisoft over hypes their games so you will always go in with way too high expectations. If you do buy Ubisoft, it should always be on sale.

Rozalia1:

Ultratwinkie:
Because now the ps2 is too old. Just like the PS3 and Xbox 360 is too old. Right now they are pushing Next gen, and leaving old gen behind. Its now a unified effort to get people to switch. Devs support those consoles because people will be switching to them and they will become the norm.

That, and the ps2 is obsolete since it doesn't support modern TVs and games on the new consoles outshine old ones. A ps2 game wn't compete with a PS4 game. People will always go for the PS4. Devs on consoles don't actually make any decisions, its the executives in the publishing department. Who are informed by charts and figures and the CEO.

Devs do what they are told on console. On PC, that doesn't happen. Two consoles are supported because the higher ups find the cost to profit potential to be negligible. The Wii U isn't because its a disaster on all sides, especially on the technical level. Its all about power, age, and where the market is going.

And the market is leaning to more powerful hardware on more mainstream names. Nintendo is known for childhood nostalgia, and without that they are nothing.

Knowing about a franchise is not the same as buying it. No one is buying Nintendo. Nintendo is on a downward slope, and the wii was a fluke that only delayed it.

Did they invest in the future with the money? No, they kept on expecting everything to be fine until it wasn't.

And now the wii U is DOA, and the money is draining fast. They didn't listen to dev demands and now they are paying for it.

Fifa games still have PS2 versions year after year, and the second/third world where the PS2 has a good base still exists.
People have been hyping Nintendo's death forever so don't be too confident.

Sports games are the same damn thing with roster updates. Its free money. Even then, they stopped FIFA games for the PS2 a while ago.

The difference here and then was that here is the internet and post-PC age. Kids have more competition now than ever before. Back then, you didn't need to worry about PC gaming, phones, etc.

It was TV, toys, and consoles from Nintendo and SEGA. With handhelds being locked down.

Now its internet, smart phones, toys, smart toys, 2 other much more attractive consoles, PC, and TV. non streaming handhelds are now obsolete with smart phones.

Nintendo never had this much pressure before. It never had to worry because SEGA was only one company. Now its fighting 5-6 companies at once.

And some of these companies are gigantic. Mega corporations that dwarf Nintendo many times over.

Ultratwinkie:
snip

I quote you because I assume you'd be interested in the current statement of Ubisoft PR:

https://twitter.com/UbiTessa/status/478622295662297088

@Beeelow i recall replying saying that the game was not downgraded, i still stick to that yes.

I assume disabling graphical options that make the game run worse and look worse on highest settings is 'not downgraded'.

Ultratwinkie:

josemlopes:

Ultratwinkie:

Its well known you never buy from Ubisoft.

They sure as fuck like to fuck it up with dumb shit, and the dumb shit that ruins the game certainly doesnt need to be bought (like Watch Dogs), but fuck me if I ever regretted buying Driver San Francisco, Assassins Creed Blackflag, Splinter Cell Blacklist, both Far Cry 3 and Blood Dragon, and Shoot Many Robots.

If the fuck up is what makes you not want the game or the game itself doesnt interest you then fine, dont buy it, makes complete sense, but to not buy something simply because its tied to things that didnt affect to product you are interested doesnt seem fair to me.

A lot of people didnt bought Titanfall but were interested in it simply because it was EA even after the fact that the game didnt suffer from any of the issues that EA games are known for (being the only issue present the fact that you needed Origin, but that is an excuse that doesnt hold up much if the user doesnt object Steam either)

People were pissed when Uplay went down and shut down all their games on Watch Dog's launch day. That's why you never buy from Ubisoft, and if you do you schedule your playtime around their launch schedule.

It was on reddit for a week. It became news. Every PC gaming forum whined about Uplay fucking up shit. On top of this, Ubisoft over hypes their games so you will always go in with way too high expectations. If you do buy Ubisoft, it should always be on sale.


Shit, you might as well have said "You never buy anything at launch day" and I would have agreed with you on the spot. Saying to never buy from Ubisoft usually means never buying from Ubisoft no matter what.

Rozalia1:
I love being proven correct, where are the usual suspects to tell me the big three are at fault? Ultratwinkie, Charcharo... and NuclearKangaroo wasn't it? Am I correct now or what? I hope you don't all now go all conspiracy theories on me.

Well, some people here already turned it into a conspiracy, not us :P.
To be fair, I do NOT believe that Ubisoft where influenced or buyed out by MS/Sony/Nintendo here. They, whilst incompetent compared to GSC, 4A, Crytek, id and Valve (speaking from a coding-perspective) are not as stupid as to believe that there arent people that are better coders/game makers then themselves amongst the community. They KNOW someone will find this, so they will NOT risk such a shit storm.
Even though its theoretically possible and I would not be suprised if the big 3 were involved, I do not believe it.

I believe it was left due to:
1. Incompetence.
2. They want to make this part of a patch and appease the community.
3. They want to sell this as a DLC but due to stupidity left the code in.

Now onto the Nintendo and Wii U problem you guys have.
You see, the Wii Y has 3 problems:
1. Low user base.
2. Fairly weak hardware. It IS more powerful then the 360 and PS3. But not by much, and that is only due to the GPU and RAM, the actual CPU is worse/same in power.
3. Shit to code for.

Those 3 at ONCE make it a bad idea for third party devs. The PS2 analogy cant be made though.

Meh Ubisoft are run by morons. I have little hope for anything they release anymore.

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