Malaysia Airlines Jet Crashes in Ukraine, Reportedly Shot Down by Missile

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT
 

Malaysia Airlines Jet Crashes in Ukraine, Reportedly Shot Down by Missile

Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 310x

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 had 280 passengers and 15 crew members on board.

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam, has crashed in the Ukraine. The jet was carrying a full load of passengers (280), along with 15 flight crew members. This doesn't appear to be a crash caused by malfunction, as reports are coming in that a Buk surface-to-air missile brought the craft down.

Reports out of Moscow "suggest the plane came down in the Donetsk region, where there has been recent heavy fighting amid continuing tensions between Russia and Ukraine."

Malaysia Airlines MH17 Flight Path 310x

The image to the right shows the approximate flight path of MH17 before it crashed (larger version can be found here).

The Buk surface-to-air missile, or Buk Missile System, was introduced by the Soviet Union in 1979. The various implementations of the system all include a 150-pound warhead, sitting atop a 5.55m (18-foot-plus) missile. The missiles can reach targets up to 46,000 feet in the air, with a typical operating range of 18.6 miles (30km). The Buk system uses vehicle-based launchers, as the missile is too large to be shoulder-fired. There are both ground- and water-based launching systems.

The Malaysia Airlines jet in question was a Boeing 777, specifically a 777-200ER. Its configuration for Malaysia Airlines allows for 282 passengers, meaning flight MH17 was virtually full when it crashed.

Boeing has issued a statement about the crash: "Our thoughts and prayers are with those on board the Malaysia Airlines airplane lost over Ukrainian airspace, as well as their families and loved ones. Boeing stands ready to provide whatever assistance is requested by authorities."

Sadly this is not the first tragedy for Malaysia Airlines in 2014. In March, contact with flight MH370 was lost an hour after takeoff. Searching for the plane has recently been focused in the southern regions of the Indian Ocean.

Permalink

So... a poor year for Malaysia airlines.

This warrants some kind of intervention, right? The lose of near 300 people who had fuck all to do with the conflict being shot down must at least get something set up to bring an end to the Ukraine-Russian conflict.

Well, this is tragic. Moving into horrific territory if it was shot down. I mean, who shoots down a commercial flight for no reason?

My condolences to the families of the deceased.

Preliminary reports are that the jet was shot down either by the Russians or pro-Russian separatists.

If that turns out to be true, it's not going to be good for Russia.

Oh boy, just when I thought things couldn't get worse over there.

The BUK is used by both Russia and Ukraine as well, so at the moment it just becomes a blame game until investigators can actually come up with evidence of which side fired it and where from.

Either way, this is not going to go down well for any country, and there should now be no fly zones over that entire region.

In other news, Singapore Airlines and Air Asia have lost 0 planes this year...

This is going to get messy. There will be accusations and counter accusations. That said I don't think it likely to be the Ukrainians, The aircraft was well inside Ukraine and heading out, they wouldn't have a reason to fire. Its unlikely to the Russian armed forces themselves. The aircraft would have been in touch with Russian ATC and would have squawking its ident. The most likely is that the Russian rebels in Ukraine have been given the SA-11 and some basic training and have gotten a little trigger happy. That's my gut instinct.

Zaydin:
Preliminary reports are that the jet was shot down either by the Russians or pro-Russian separatists.

If that pans out, it's not going to be good for Russia.

Wait 'till some important russian guy comes out on a stage and say that it was ukrainian army who shot it down. Reasons? We need no reasons! We are russian goverment, the truth is our bitch!

As if Ukraine has enough working weaponry of such caliber to aim it at random plains.

Zaydin:
Preliminary reports are that the jet was shot down either by the Russians or pro-Russian separatists.

If that pans out, it's not going to be good for Russia.

These things happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

Andy Shandy:
Well, this is tragic. Moving into horrific territory if it was shot down. I mean, who shoots down a commercial flight for no reason?

My condolences to the families of the deceased.

This is the 4th time its happened. The Soviets shot down a Korean Airlines 747 in the far east 25 years or so ago. The Americans shot down a Iran airways 747 around the same time and the Ukrainians shot down an airline themselves 5 years. back. In the first 3 cases it was mis identification of the target, they thought they were firing at an hostile military jet. In 3rd case the Ukrainians were test firing an SA-5 and it locked on and hit the airline.

So this is terrible and everything, but I completely fail to see how this is a suitable subject to attempt to cover on a website that regards a new Captain America as "Breaking News".

Tragic doesn't even begin to describe this. Fuck this angers and saddens me greatly.

PlasmaCow:
So this is terrible and everything, but I completely fail to see how this is a suitable subject to attempt to cover on a website that regards a new Captain America as "Breaking News".

Why do people always bring this up when the Escapist covers some kind of world news?

You do understand that something like this can and probably will have long reaching effects that will affect most parts of the world in some way. Even if in very small ways. I don't see why the Escapist can't report on something that will most likely have an impact on people who use this site.

Personally I prefer the fact that I can get some of the more important world news stories without having to go to other websites that I don't care to visit.

Also does it matter to you in any way? It is one article on a site that puts out around 10 - 15 short news articles a day. Does it really cause you so much distress if one of the happens to be about world events? You can literally scroll right past it and not read it. It takes up about 5% of your screen space on the front page. You don't have to click it, you don't have to read it, you can literally walk away and not give two craps about it.

It boggles my mind that someone would complain that a site takes the time to make sure its consumers are up to date on important world events. If nothing else it's in science and tech, and about half the article is dedicated to talking about how the missiles work.

First thing I noticed was:

"The various implementations of the system all include a 150-pound warhead, sitting atop a 5.55m (18-foot-plus) missile. ...The Buk system uses vehicle-based launchers, as the missile to large to be shoulder-fired." Well...yes

Though, Wiki (yeah, I know) tells me that casualties so far have been very low, this is much more of a major escalation than I thought.

Worse thing, anyone with one of those weapon systems could be responsible. Only takes a handful or trigger happy people to kick things off.

PlasmaCow:
So this is terrible and everything, but I completely fail to see how this is a suitable subject to attempt to cover on a website that regards a new Captain America as "Breaking News".

Along with being about as current as a current event can get, this falls under the purview of Science and Tech because the story involves aviation (Boeing), and weapons systems (reported Buk missile system).

-Devin Connors, Tech Editor

Photos coming out now of the crash site

[[Please do not post images of the crash wreckage. Thanks.
-Moderator
]]

Readers: Please don't embed images of the wreckage. That stuff can get pretty graphic.

You can still link to images, but please don't embed, and use a NSFW tag.

Thanks everyone,
-Devin Connors

albino boo:
Photos coming out now of the crash site

Seesh, that does look like an explosion happened. Still, I'm not entirely sure if it was shot down, or if the Jet was just faulty (This was the same company that mysteriously lost that plane a few months ago). Still, my heart goes out to those who died in this accident, and to their families.

And if it does turn out that someone in the Ukraine region shot down the Jet, there is going to be hell to pay...

...They were flying a commercial passenger flight over an active war zone?
I mean, I don't want to give the impression of victim blaming, but you have to be pragmatic about this stuff. An airline shouldn't be taking its passengers through areas where people are shooting missiles at each other. You just can't gamble with your customers' lives that way.

Why would either Pro Russian or Anti Russian Ukrainians shoot down a Malaysian plane? Malaysia has nothing to do with Russia.

Well this is fucking horrible affair.

I personally suspect that the separatists accidentally shot down the airliner. They may not claim to have the capability to do so with hand-held launchers, but it's likely that given the use of Ukranian air power in the conflict the rebels have managed to acquire the more advanced Buk AA system and someone's shot down a civilian airliner thinking it was perhaps a Ukrainian military transport aircraft.

The Russian and Ukrainian armed forces would know which aircraft in their airspace are military and civilian because they have an established radar network, the rebel's don't. I can see how mistakes could be made if they have access to something capable of shooting aircraft down from that altitude.

Of course it's early days yet, so at the moment this is all just speculation.

Crazy Zaul:
Why would either Pro Russian or Anti Russian Ukrainians shoot down a Malaysian plane? Malaysia has nothing to do with Russia.

The most likely explanation is that they thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian An-26 transport aircraft not a commercial passenger jet. They shot down an AN-26 two days ago at high altitude

Devin Connors:
Readers: Please don't embed images of the wreckage. That stuff can get pretty graphic.

You can still link to images, but please don't embed, and use a NSFW tag.

Thanks everyone,
-Devin Connors

THey come from news websites, they are not going to publish anything too graphic.

velcthulhu:
...They were flying a commercial passenger flight over an active war zone?
I mean, I don't want to give the impression of victim blaming, but you have to be pragmatic about this stuff. An airline shouldn't be taking its passengers through areas where people are shooting missiles at each other. You just can't gamble with your customers' lives that way.

They have been doing it ever since this conflict started.

They continued to fly commercial planes at high altitudes (9km+) over Ukraine space as there was no air to air conflict, or even surface to air conflict that reached a dangerous altitude. Ukraine were the only ones with the resources for air combat, and the pro-russian seperatists were believed to only have ground capabilities and Anti-air with a maximum altitude of 3 kilometres.

At the moment, all airways have diverted planes around the area, and aren't considering going back there any time soon.

And that is why this is confusing. The seperatists/rebels only had shoulder mounted anti-air, and even if they captured the Buk missile system, surely there is no way they knew how to operate it, as it seems quite complicated.

Crazy Zaul:
Why would either Pro Russian or Anti Russian Ukrainians shoot down a Malaysian plane? Malaysia has nothing to do with Russia.

This was likely seperatists using Russian supplied SA-11 / Buk missiles. In several articles, rebels have claimed they have no capability of shooting down aircraft at this altitude, but just 3 days ago they claimed responsibility a Ukrainian military transport aircraft flying in the same area, at high altitude:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russian-rocket-may-have-downed-military-plane/

Additionally, this Airliner had already overflown the entire country, and was about to cross the contested area and into Russian airspace, so there would be no reason to mistake this aircraft and down it as a hostile. It would have also been squawking ident to Russian ATC by this point, so unlikely that the russians would *mistakenly* down it. Most likely the rebels are using Russian supplied SA-11s with rudimentary training and itchy trigger fingers after already getting a victory earlier in the week against a military transport.

dumbseizure:

They have been doing it ever since this conflict started.

They continued to fly commercial planes at high altitudes (9km+) over Ukraine space as there was no air to air conflict, or even surface to air conflict that reached a dangerous altitude. Ukraine were the only ones with the resources for air combat, and the pro-russian seperatists were believed to only have ground capabilities and Anti-air with a maximum altitude of 3 kilometres.

At the moment, all airways have diverted planes around the area, and aren't considering going back there anytime soon.

And that is why this is confusing. The separatists/rebels only had shoulder mounted anti-air, and even if they captured the Buk missile system, surely there is no way they knew how to operate it, as it seems quite complicated.

Russia still operates a conscription army so there are literally 10,000s of people that have been trained on the SA-11 since its introduction in 1979.

albino boo:

dumbseizure:

They have been doing it ever since this conflict started.

They continued to fly commercial planes at high altitudes (9km+) over Ukraine space as there was no air to air conflict, or even surface to air conflict that reached a dangerous altitude. Ukraine were the only ones with the resources for air combat, and the pro-russian seperatists were believed to only have ground capabilities and Anti-air with a maximum altitude of 3 kilometres.

At the moment, all airways have diverted planes around the area, and aren't considering going back there anytime soon.

And that is why this is confusing. The separatists/rebels only had shoulder mounted anti-air, and even if they captured the Buk missile system, surely there is no way they knew how to operate it, as it seems quite complicated.

Russia still operates a conscription army so there are literally 10,000s of people that have been trained on the SA-11 since its introduction in 1979.

Ah, thank you for that, I wasn't aware that they still used conscription. So that means that some of the seperatists could have the knowledge to use a BUK?

albino boo:

Devin Connors:
Readers: Please don't embed images of the wreckage. That stuff can get pretty graphic.

You can still link to images, but please don't embed, and use a NSFW tag.

Thanks everyone,
-Devin Connors

THey come from news websites, they are not going to publish anything too graphic.

There are plenty of photos coming from non-press on the ground. The request stands.
-Devin Connors

dumbseizure:

velcthulhu:
...They were flying a commercial passenger flight over an active war zone?
I mean, I don't want to give the impression of victim blaming, but you have to be pragmatic about this stuff. An airline shouldn't be taking its passengers through areas where people are shooting missiles at each other. You just can't gamble with your customers' lives that way.

They have been doing it ever since this conflict started.

They continued to fly commercial planes at high altitudes (9km+) over Ukraine space as there was no air to air conflict, or even surface to air conflict that reached a dangerous altitude. Ukraine were the only ones with the resources for air combat, and the pro-russian seperatists were believed to only have ground capabilities and Anti-air with a maximum altitude of 3 kilometres.

At the moment, all airways have diverted planes around the area, and aren't considering going back there any time soon.

And that is why this is confusing. The seperatists/rebels only had shoulder mounted anti-air, and even if they captured the Buk missile system, surely there is no way they knew how to operate it, as it seems quite complicated.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russian-rocket-may-have-downed-military-plane/
And yet they claimed responsibility for downing a Ukrainian military transport flying at >21,000ft along the eastern border with Russia, roughly the same area where this airliner was downed. As I said in my previous post, they were likely rebels operating SA-11s given to them by the russians and still high off their "victory" on Monday, they downed this airliner believing it to be another military transport.

This could spin completely out of control, they're saying 23 US citizens were on board the plane. On top of being a tragedy, this could blow up to be a massive crisis. On a personal note, my mom went on a business trip barely a month ago that had a very similar flight path, and I remember jokingly telling her to watch out when they flew over Ukraine.

tangoprime:

dumbseizure:

velcthulhu:
...They were flying a commercial passenger flight over an active war zone?
I mean, I don't want to give the impression of victim blaming, but you have to be pragmatic about this stuff. An airline shouldn't be taking its passengers through areas where people are shooting missiles at each other. You just can't gamble with your customers' lives that way.

They have been doing it ever since this conflict started.

They continued to fly commercial planes at high altitudes (9km+) over Ukraine space as there was no air to air conflict, or even surface to air conflict that reached a dangerous altitude. Ukraine were the only ones with the resources for air combat, and the pro-russian seperatists were believed to only have ground capabilities and Anti-air with a maximum altitude of 3 kilometres.

At the moment, all airways have diverted planes around the area, and aren't considering going back there any time soon.

And that is why this is confusing. The seperatists/rebels only had shoulder mounted anti-air, and even if they captured the Buk missile system, surely there is no way they knew how to operate it, as it seems quite complicated.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russian-rocket-may-have-downed-military-plane/
And yet they claimed responsibility for downing a Ukrainian military transport flying at >21,000ft along the eastern border with Russia, roughly the same area where this airliner was downed. As I said in my previous post, they were likely rebels operating SA-11s given to them by the russians and still high off their "victory" on Monday, they downed this airliner believing it to be another military transport.

Oh, sorry wasn't aware that they claimed that, I haven't payed attention to much news coming out of that conflict, but the CNN breaking news alert wouldn't let me ignore this one.

That and my conscience.

Knowing this now, it has gotten rid of my doubts of whether the rebels were capable of doing this, now the question is if they really did.

dumbseizure:

Ah, thank you for that, I wasn't aware that they still used conscription. So that means that some of the separatists could have the knowledge to use a BUK?

Well a lot of the Russian separatist are volunteers from Russia itself its not beyond the realm of possibilities that 10 of them did their time in an air defence unit. It also explains why they mis identified the target.

Virtually every male in both Russia and Ukraine have 3 years of military training. In terms of man to man there is not much difference between the two sides but the Ukrainians are better organised.

Heres a now deleted tweet from the Russian separatists

image

Crazy Zaul:
Why would either Pro Russian or Anti Russian Ukrainians shoot down a Malaysian plane? Malaysia has nothing to do with Russia.

albino boo:
The most likely explanation is that they thought they were shooting at a Ukrainian An-26 transport aircraft not a commercial passenger jet. They shot down an AN-26 two days ago at high altitude

This, or pro-russians are avenging Europe and USA for the sanctions they applied to Russia yesterday

My money is on the separatists since the Russians aren't stupid enough to do something like that and the Ukrainians have no need to shoot down aircraft when the enemy they are fighting doesn't have an air force. I'm guessing some pro-Russian pig farmer or whoever with five minutes of training was running the thing and didn't know how to use the IFF (Identification, Friend or Foe) systems or didn't even have said systems installed.

This is what history will call the escalation point, I think.

You read your history book in school and everything is neat and tidy; that the assassination of man A led to the tension between upcountry B that resulted in war C which concluded with the decimation of countries' A, B, C ,D and E.

Hindsight knits together the thread of the past you can't see so clearly in the present.

European media does all it can to display war, violence, pain and conflict as something that happens elsewhere. But this? This is, for want of a more sympathetic phrase, unavoidable.

Zaydin:
Preliminary reports are that the jet was shot down either by the Russians or pro-Russian separatists.

If that turns out to be true, it's not going to be good for Russia.

Look at the map, it was shot over the Western Ukraine. You might as well have blamed Poland or Hungary.

EDIT: Oh, nevermind. I got the wrong idea because of the map attached to the news report.

 Pages 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here