Yogventures Kickstarter Cancelled - Backers Offered Free (Other) Game

Yogventures Kickstarter Cancelled - Backers Offered Free (Other) Game

yogventures image

Yogventures backers will receive a free copy of the game "TUG" as compensation for the failed Kickstater.

Yogcast's foray into Kickstarter has failed in a most spectacular way, with its proposed Yogventures developer Winterkewl Games collapsing and cancelling the game's development, despite fans raising over $500,000. As compensation for anyone who contributed, they will receive a Steam code for the open-world survival game TUG. The Yogcast crew also says that it is working with TUG developer Nerd Kingdom to create rewards similar to those that were due to be based on Yogventures in-game items.

"The failure of [I]Yogventures[/i] is a matter of deep regret for the Yogscast, we put a lot of faith in the developer Winterkewl, including allowing them to use our likenesses and brand. However the project was too vast in scope to be realized and despite a huge amount of hard work from Winterkewl they have had to abandon it," said the Yogcast crew in an official statement.

"The game as it stands it is not capable of being released and certainly wouldn't live up to the expectations of the people that backed the Kickstarter or pre-ordered the game."

It added that anyone seeking a refund should direct their requests to Winterkewl themselves. Anyone who purchased any Kickstarter reward tiers that weren't related to in-game rewards, should still receive those rewards. "We're happy for people to contact us at yogventures@yogscast.com if any are missing so we can look into it for them."

So, here's a cautionary tale that even seemingly successful Kickstarter projects, much like any other project, can still fail if poorly managed. Back wisely, Kickstarters!

Source: Kickstarter via Eurogamer

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I can confirm firsthand that a lot of things that seem reasonable in the Kickstarter phase--well, once you're out there on your own, trying to clean the river muck out of your keyboard while the mosquitoes are swarming, the tide is rising, and you're on your last two shotgun shells, you realize you might have been a bit optimistic at the pitch meeting.

The big thing is to promise ideals over specifics. You'll find out what you can and can't make once you're making it. As long as you make a game they wanted to play--you've won. And if you're six people doing that for ~$75,000 each, you should absolutely be able to do at least that.

I believe that as the projects folded people are within their rights to ask for money back...lets see Kickstarter's FAQ

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

I've backed a few kickstarters, including The Doom that Came to Atlantic City, so I know the feeling when a game fails to materialize. Fortunately, Doom was rescued. It looks like this game won't be as lucky.

The thing people don't seem to get is that the total amount on the Kickstarter page is nowhere near the actual funding. In this case the actual money they had to work with was more like half of that. Having KS take it's cut (as well as paypal and the like) and then have many many backers who pledged not even pay up (only 20% of the people at the top pledge levels even paid).

So it was a new indie team trying to make a game on $200 000 - $250 000 at most. They should have still done better than they did, but that money could quite easily be consumed by 2 years of wages and rent on the office. In fact, I think there must have been some personal investment for it to last as long as it did.

Frankly they misread the Yogscast audience' ability to actually put money where their mouth was (seeing as they have a fairly young average audience this makes a lot of sense). Add to that overambitious devs and delays and all the money is gone.

I think the Yogscast made a big mistake getting behind this project at it's inception. Risking so much on a non-tested group of people seems crazy to me and they seem to have learned that lesson. It sucks for all the people who pledged. This sort of shit should be predictable- don't buy into KS projects if the devs haven't shipped a game in the past or have funding from elsewhere.

sniddy:
I believe that as the projects folded people are within their rights to ask for money back...lets see Kickstarter's FAQ

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

I hope at least some backers will start a class action lawsuit against Yogcast.

Of course it's unlikely that they get their money back once it has been spent, but at least a consequence has to be established, and the idea that Kickstarters are just donations or investments, should be discouraged.

Even if you directly purchase something from a store, there is a chance that you get ripped off and you can't get your money back. But purchasing's reliability comes from an established tradition of coming down hard on scammers, not from hypothetical "rights". The same should be true for crowdfunding, to some extent.

sniddy:
I believe that as the projects folded people are within their rights to ask for money back...lets see Kickstarter's FAQ

Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project?

Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This is what creators see before they launch.) This information can serve as a basis for legal recourse if a creator doesn't fulfill their promises. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

This only applies to the Backer Rewards - the various tiers. If you make a Kickstarter for a card deck, and promise people they get a baloon ride if they pay $20+, you just have to give them the baloon ride.

That said, and this is something I've mentioned many times before, once you add the actual product to the backer rewards, things get messy. If you're promising them a finished copy of the product, or even some contribution to the finished product, these terms state that you will have to fulfill that, even if your kickstarted project fails.

And, another thing said: Yogscast probably won't be liable here. As far as I recall, they only promoted it. Winterkewl appears to be (legally) independent from Yogscast, and was in charge of the Kickstarter themselves.

C.S.Strowbridge:
I've backed a few kickstarters, including The Doom that Came to Atlantic City, so I know the feeling when a game fails to materialize. Fortunately, Doom was rescued. It looks like this game won't be as lucky.

The Doom That Came to Atlantic City is kind of a weird case though. The KS money was used for things other than the project itself, and Cryptozooic picked it up at the end from the designers (who never received any of the KS money) and promised to fulfill any copies of the game promised as rewards. It's actually pretty fun, too.

I've been through a couple of failed Kickstarters at this point, and even more that are just really late, mostly smaller ones by individuals where the effort of getting my pledge back wouldn't be worth the pledge. As a rule they generally offer though, because they're required to do it and they don't look quite as bad if they don't fight it (also a lot of folks won't begrudge them the smaller pledges if they make a point of trying to make it right).

Yogscast is making some moves to try to fix things, at least. They've gotten involved with another KS game that is similar in concept called TUG, and are giving out TUG keys to anyone who is supposed to get a copy of the Yogventures game. I think most of the physical rewards had already been dealt with, right?

The unfortunate result of that is that I am both a Yogventures backer and a TUG backer, so now I have a spare TUG key that I have no use for.

Entitled:

I hope at least some backers will start a class action lawsuit against Yogcast.

Except that's not how it works, the Yogscast were not the people behind the kickstarter, that was Winerkewl games. A company that no longer functionally exists. The Yogscast allowed them to use their brand and promoted the campaign but are legally independent and not in any way responsible for the shit that's happened since. It wasn't on their heads to see the rewards fulfilled and it wasn't them that made the game fail. They just shouldn't have got behind such a risky venture in the first place.

Which is a crazy system in a way, but that's how it goes.

To be honest Kickstarter is a dangerous gamble on some level and anyone backing on there should know it by now! i've got five Kickstarters i've backed in progress at the moment all seem to be going well on them and i've back another seven but two of those failed to reach target, but the other five all gave me the items/games I was promised.

I'm waiting for the day one fails on me but so be it, i'm backing a generally small or independant compony doing something that probally wouldn't get off the ground without kickstarter and if it fails then it fails it was destiny. People need to know this and not go crazy when a high risk project they knew were not 100% certain colapses. Be realistic and understanding, kickstarter states this on its site quite clearly.

Still sad though as people in that games compony probally had high hopes of makinng this the first of many cool games they had in mind(now they're jobless) and sad for the backers who desired this so much, Kickstarter sure can be the land of broken dreams.

Entitled:
I hope at least some backers will start a class action lawsuit against Yogcast.

Why?

The Yogscast have done nothing wrong here, they allowed Winterkewl games to use their brand, that's all. As for pepole being entitled to their money back its already been made clear that they contact the developer of the game about this.

Seems a bit stupid to say 'start a lawsuit' against folk who are not in the wrong.

Also - "Although we're under no obligation to do anything," Yogcast co-founder Lewis Brindley said in an email to backers "instead we're going to do our best to make this right, and make you really glad you backed the project!"

"So Yogcast is giving out early access Steam keys for the game TUG. They've worked out a deal with the game's developer Nerd Kingdom which includes giving over assets and other IP from Yogventures."

"In many ways TUG is the game we were hoping Winterkewl would create," Brindley said. "It has huge potential for the future. We've been playing the Early Access version on Steam and you'll soon be able to see us playing the game on Yogscast channels."

Nor will rewards be fulfilled if they haven't already been, though Yogcast says most physical rewards should have been delivered and that in-game digital rewards will be replicated as closely as possible in TUG.

TheEvilCheese:

Entitled:

I hope at least some backers will start a class action lawsuit against Yogcast.

Except that's not how it works, the Yogscast were not the people behind the kickstarter, that was Winerkewl games. A company that no longer functionally exists.

Obviously Winerkewl should be sued too, but like you said they already bankrupting anyways, so it would have little effect there.

I'm pretty sure that some accusations could be gathered against Yogcast based on a licensing connection, and even if it wouldn't stick, it would greatly inconvenience them, and discourage future projects from similarly abusing customer trust.

This is why I don't, have never and never will back any KS project. It's just not worth it unless you have expendable money AND you get a copy of the game if and when it comes out.

Hm. Well at least they are apologetic, and offer something in return. Not that it is the yogscast's fault really.

I approve of working to create similar ingame rewards that yogventures would've had. That is a nice thing to do for the fans.

Entitled:

I'm pretty sure that some accusations could be gathered against Yogcast based on a licensing connection, and even if it wouldn't stick, it would greatly inconvenience them, and discourage future projects from similarly abusing customer trust.

It is not their fault though? Aren't you being a little entitled now? (Eh? Eh? Geddit?)
Suing them out of spite just seems mean, focus on the actual developer.

sniddy:
We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill.

Which is the only way a court is likely to support it: if there is evidence of bad faith. Did any of the parties operate in bad faith?

Entitled:

Obviously Winerkewl should be sued too, but like you said they already bankrupting anyways, so it would have little effect there.

I'm not sure why that means people get to sue someone else. Whether or not it has an effect is meaningless. The culpable party would be Winterkewl, and even then suich a lawsuit would probably be thrown out.

You're funding something and should assume the risks of doing so. Those risks should include a product not making it to completion. What they should not include is deception or claims made in bad faith.

From what I recall, the game was going to be a cheap Minecraft clone that somehow featured Simon and Lewis's characters in it. Sounded like one of the stupidest vanity projects I'd ever heard. The fact that anyone thought it was a good idea, let alone $500,000 worth of people, is just further evidence that when push comes to shove, we ain't none of us intelligent.

Entitled:

TheEvilCheese:

Entitled:

I hope at least some backers will start a class action lawsuit against Yogcast.

Except that's not how it works, the Yogscast were not the people behind the kickstarter, that was Winerkewl games. A company that no longer functionally exists.

Obviously Winerkewl should be sued too, but like you said they already bankrupting anyways, so it would have little effect there.

I'm pretty sure that some accusations could be gathered against Yogcast based on a licensing connection, and even if it wouldn't stick, it would greatly inconvenience them, and discourage future projects from similarly abusing customer trust.

They freaking took over the assets and are trying to get backers their various physical rewards. Why would you want to PUNISH them for that? Christ, imagine YOU had your IP used in a scam and were hit by a class-action lawsuit for the reason of "being scammed". Great idea, no?

Also, you're wrong. If Marvel allowed some third-party toymaker to make a line of Thor toys, and it turned out to be a scam used to get money from collectors, do you honestly think that Marvel would be liable in any way, shape or form? Pfff.

man, that's a kick in the nuts to the backers, especially those that contributed a LOT of money. It really shows that at the end of the day you still need to treat your KS as a product and thus have obligations to fulfill. Not being manage properly can ruin a project down the line.

The important part about all of this is that we saw the potato salad through on KickStarter.

In Taters we Trust.

When I first saw Yogventures, this is pretty much what I expected. It looked like a highschool project by people who had only the basics under control and more ideas than skill to complete them.

Sadly, if you backed this, the only person to blame is yourself :/

That's the ongoing story of Kickstarter, you have to be cynical and assume the worst will happen. Read up on their experience, their project and the ressources they have at hand, then how much they're asking for. If any of it doesn't make much sense, then avoid.

Look, Kickstarter can say what it likes in it's TOS but the fact is that contributing to a Kickstarter campaign is not like buying a product and you are not afforded anywhere near the same projections. Here in the UK we abandoned Caveat Emptor decades ago for products and services but Kickstarter exists to fund possibly risky products. As a consumer you have little to no recourse. That's why the button says "Donate" and not "Buy". As a consumer you should be fully aware that Kickstarter is meant to raise funding and therefore carries with it a degree of risk.

Let me ask you a few questions if you get butthurt because a Kickstarter failed;

1. Why did the project have to be Kickstarted in the first place? Plenty of great ideas get made because investors pick them up. If an idea or product is good enough and the people behind it have enough business sense then usually it won't be that difficult to find some level of funding. Crowd-funding is a resort taken by more risky projects that can't attract investors any other way. You have no way to appraise the business sense of the actual campaign, only a list of potentially empty promises. If they were pitching for investment they would have to also present a sound and technical business plan and answerer difficult questions that KS backers simply fail to ask.

2. Why did you back the project? If you backed the project thinking you had a guarantee of getting what was listed, as if it was a project sale, you are an idiot. Kickstater comes with a risk, if you can't handle that idea then Kickstarter is not for you. What these campaigns are about is backing the creator and giving them at least a chance to bring their idea to fruition. Things change between the "Ideas" phase and the "Creating and producing" phase, that's how any project works. What you see on the KS page cannot be in any way gardened to be like the finished project. It is a pitch. An idea. You should ALWAYS make the decision to back with that in mind.

3. Where you okay with losing the amount of money you invested? Well invested is again the wrong concept. As an investor you would own a portion of the project, this is almost never the case on KS. But the point is that you Donated to the idea of a project. To do that you need to bee both enthusiastically on board with the idea but also okay with the idea that this project can and sometimes will fail.

The law has yet to catch up with Crowd-funding. Until it does i would suggest treating it like you have little or no legal projection at all. Because the reality on the ground is you don't and should have though of that before you parted with your money.

Kickstarter is a crowdfunding risk but doesn't carry the same protections as investing. Its a high risk with no guarantee of a product. I don't know how many of these KS projects are run by competent people and neither do most of you. Because of that, you've no idea if the game you want will ever turn out.
Some folk may use KS as a scam, then dip out with the money claiming it wouldn't work as intended while others may actually have set their sights way too high, flew close to the sun, etc. The latter portion is only liable for certain things, and when you invest in something you should be prepared for it not to work out and possibly not to get your money back.
None of the premises and pitches made should be considered guarantees. A lot of folk are seeing this as basically funding the game they want through pre-order which is the wrong way to look at it. Basically if you want to buy a guaranteed release, wait until it actually has a stable release date and a pre-order that isn't nebulous. Don't buy Early Access, don't Crowdfund anything, just have patience. Pitches are concepts, not final products. Please remember that before you back a project.
Ye Gods we're turning into a society of "must have it now" people and that is not a good thing. There's a reason patience is considered a virtue.
Basically be prepared for your crowdfunded project to fail and possibly lose out on your money or don't crowdfund things with money you're not prepared to lose. Or have some patience and wait for it to get to the imminent release phase.
I've never crowdfunded anything because I can wait to see if things work out. I don't need KS rewards to enjoy the game, and I don't see the need personally. And if anyone else wants that stuff, please just remember the risk you're taking for whatever reward you think you'll get out of it.
Good luck to those KS projects out there, and to those who've backed them.
At least they're attempting to give something to the people who backed the project but people are just tough to please.

I heard that there were some people that donated up to $10000 on this game. I doubt it's true but if so then why would anyone pay that much money to the possibility that something might be made?

Edit- Actually according to the linked source to Eurogamer 5 backers did indeed spend $10000 on this. Holy. Shit.

 

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