Miyamoto Refocusing on Hardcore; Casual Gamers' Passive Attitude "Pathetic"

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Miyamoto Refocusing on Hardcore; Casual Gamers' Passive Attitude "Pathetic"

Miyamoto Legend of Zelda Shield

Miyamoto explains why Nintendo will focus on the hardcore gamer, and why he believes the mindset of the passive player is pathetic.

Nintendo is often criticized for not catering to the hardcore demographic, and Shigeru Miyamoto, beloved game designer and General Manager of Nintendo EAD, agrees the company should focus on dedicated fans. In an Edge magazine interview Miyamoto expresses his dissatisfaction with the average mindset of the passive gamer.

"[These are] the sort of people who, for example, might want to watch a movie. They might want to go to Disneyland," he begins, "Their attitude is, 'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.' It's kind of a passive attitude they're taking, and to me it's kind of a pathetic thing." He continues that, "They do not know how interesting it is if you move one step further and try to challenge yourself [with more advanced games]."

CVG points out that this is the first time a Nintendo executive has made a public statement of the company's initiative to focus less on the casual market. He also divulges this is in part to the growing popularity of the mobile division, "Fortunately, because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now. It's a good thing for us, because we do not have to worry about making games something that are relevant to general people's daily lives." He confirms the DS and Wii were Nintendo's effort to "expand the gaming population," but now it seems the mobile gaming market has taken over that initiative.

Source: Computer and Videogames

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Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

No need to make BS explanations why you come crawling back.

Did they figure out that the "casual" gamer doesn't spend money on video games?

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

I bet you believed Sony when they said they had changed from the PS3 days.

weirdee:

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

I bet you believed Sony when they said they had changed from the PS3 days.

Straw man much?

Where did i mentioned sony?

Back when the Wii came out nintendo made it very clear that their long time fanbase and hardcore gamers are "not their market" anymore and that they would focus on casual gaming because it was so new and fresh and could reach so many more people... like all those commercials where the whole family plays? Yeah thing is that these people switched to mobile devices and tablets... they arent buying nintendo consoles and games. So suddenly nintendo renounces the casual market saying that they are "pathetic people"

Truth is they noticed that the whole "casual gamer market" doesnt work for them anymore and now they come crawling back hoping that their long time fans from ye olden days will forgive them.

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

No need to make BS explanations why you come crawling back.

Wow, way to misrepresent Nintendo's position on these things.

Geeze Nintendo I know this break-up has been hard for you, but you don't have to do this in public.

Seriously, it's not exactly like we need people throwing loaded words like that around now. Games aren't everyone's life and that's not a bad thing

weirdee:

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

I bet you believed Sony when they said they had changed from the PS3 days.

I believed them when they significantly undercut Microsoft on price, completely changed the architecture to be more convenient for developers, removed all the stupid restrictions on indie developers and actively courted them instead _and_ produced a games focused piece of hardware with better party support than the Xbox.

It's not that Sony said 'we've changed' and everyone fawned over them. It's that they produced a console that was a radical change from the PS3's launch and everyone started saying 'they've changed.' The issues that plagued the PS3 and every moaned about factually don't exist for the PS4 (apart from backwards compatibility of course but sadly PS3 sales _increased_ when they removed BC).

FogHornG36:
Did they figure out that the "casual" gamer doesn't spend money on video games?

I guess the fact that we left finally sent the message we wanted.

I knew we'd have to hit them in the pocket to get them to listen, I just hope it's not all talk.

I told Nintendo that the Wii's target demographic wasn't a sustainable market back in '07. I hoped that they would have reacted a bit sooner though.

Still, getting a Wii U by the end of the year. Can't be bothered with the XBone or PS4 until at least 2016, and that's assuming that PCs don't get all of the multi-platform titles that I want (which they probably will).

Interesting times we live in, eh?

Im not 100% what hes trying to say here. Best interpretation he's realised that the casual market is not as beneficial or loyal consumer base and is trying to refocus his efforts and leave the casual market to mobile gaming.

Worse case he's saying that people cant enjoy games unless they are difficult. Maybe a little from column A and a little from column B.

Either way I have to say nintendo have expanded there audience as much as they can, with consoles like the Wii being more favorable to casual players, and maybe it is time to pay more attention to long time fans

Edit: Also 'Pathetic' could have been a harsh word because of translation, again trying to be favorable here, could be completely wrong

'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.'

I'm all for this new mindset that Nintendo has, but isn't this kinda the ultimate point of video games? To be entertained? Anyway, here's hoping for the best for Nintendo

In fairness, he might have meant apathetic. It fits better with the context, and is an easy mistake to make if English isn't your first language (although the interview may have been in Japanese for all I know).

So Nintendo is about to make the exact mistake it made five yaers ago but in reverse?

Fair enough, if it results in better Smash Bros, Metroid and Starfox games I'm all for it, since the Wii version of Smash and the second Wii Metroid were have such upstanding reputations among dedicated players.

FogHornG36:
Did they figure out that the "casual" gamer doesn't spend money on video games?

SRSLY. As a Nintendo fan since the gamecube era, my childhood, I'm glad to see the shift back from the Wii sports era. To be fair, Nintendo never stopped making games for 'hardcore' gamers, some of them were just made easier. I hope we can see traditional paper mario and metroid prime return now.

Also, Miyamoto's said some weird things the last several years, so maybe take him with a grain of salt. He did worsen Paper Mario: Sticker Star by gutting the story, characters, and making it a not even challenging kid's game.

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

No need to make BS explanations why you come crawling back.

+1

And Man:

'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.'

I'm all for this new mindset that Nintendo has, but isn't this kinda the ultimate point of video games? To be entertained? Anyway, here's hoping for the best for Nintendo

Yes, but there's a big difference between "being entertained" in a Wii Bowling sense, and "being entertained" in a Legend of Zelda or Metroid sense. The latter takes a much greater deal of agency from the player; you have to go out and "find your fun" so to speak.

I'm not really sure it's safe to post here because I'm trying to cut down on salt but what the heck. Seriously don't understand the hate yes they moved to a demographic you are not a part of and may even scorn. Now, it sounds like they are moving back after realizing that that demographic wasn't there thing. Isn't that a good thing? Sure it's at least partly to do with money but they're a company everything at least has somethng to do with money. Why is it so bad that it's leading to a good change? Why give a crap about consumer activism and trying to get companies to change if this is how you act when they do. There's no winning here.

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

Piss off nintendo... no one believes you... youre going where the money is and aparantly you cant make any money anymore by booking on the casual market.

No need to make BS explanations why you come crawling back.

How is "going where the money is" something to be criticized for? It's what businesses do, and Nintendo's push for the casual market with the Wii made them mad dough while it lasted. The fact that Nintendo isn't stupid enough to stay on a sinking ship isn't something to be mad about.

Okay, ya it's a little hypocritical for the guy that showed off Wii Music to complain about the filthy casuals, but ultimately he's just being a spokesman for the games Nintendo makes, not some sort of gaming connoisseur.

I'll be right here waiting for you to hold up your end, Nintendo. For a little while.

So their plan now is to try to delight the hardcore? Well, just so long as their hardware isn't hugely underpowered, and their third party situation isn't abysmal, they might have a chance to pull that off. Oh, wait.

Olas:

How is "going where the money is" something to be criticized for? It's what businesses do, and Nintendo's push for the casual market with the Wii made them mad dough while it lasted. The fact that Nintendo isn't stupid enough to stay on a sinking ship isn't something to be mad about.

Okay, ya it's a little hypocritical for the guy that showed off Wii Music to complain about the filthy casuals, but ultimately he's just being a spokesman for the games Nintendo makes, not some sort of gaming connoisseur.

Its not the act of going where the money is that im critisizing. Heck they would be stupid not to.

Its that they cover it in layers of BS.

Nintendo threw away their harcore loyal fanbase for the casual market with noses raised high in the air at the dirty hardcore gamers.

Now nintendo throws away the casual market (or rather the casual market threw them away) and they still have their noses high in the air even insulting casual gamers as pathetic, when the truth is that those casuals are simply not interested in nintento anymore, and that sure as hell is not their fault. Heck myamoto even bemoans that their customers DARE to expect to be entertained by nintendo products... wtf?

This isnt honesty.. this isnt saying "yeah we bet on the wrong horse, but now we have our heads straight again"

This is acting like someone who cheated on their significant other and now comes back because their little affair didnt turn out to be something lasting and think by insulting said affair they will make it up to their ex.

Many words ere said but of course the words are meaningless market babble. Shifting from casual? who do they define as casual? I mean Popcap made wicked sums of money catering to casual gamers... as have many other game companies, who do they count as HArdcore? Is that judged by skill level , experience or the amount of hours per day spent playing?

Is it the guy who spends, 8 hours every day gaming? The guy who may spend an hour or so a day but as played and beaten every mario and zelda game to date? Or the idiot who camps outside a store early in the morning to make sure he can be one of the first people to get a console/game?

Basically Sigeru is being the mouth piece for his bosses and his bosses are trying to cover their ass for their relatively poor performance.

Also callinge casual gamers passive and pathetic... gee.. that's a smart move. Kinda explains why you've been losing market share and dev support for the last couple console cycles.

Karadalis:
Oh please... first its all "Hardcore isnt our market anymore, casuals is where its at" with the Wii... and when said casuals leave you for mobile devices you suddenly act like "damn them casuals! They arent real gamers anyways! Lets focus on the hardcore crowd again!"

First of, there's that. But closely related:

"Their attitude is, 'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.' It's kind of a passive attitude they're taking, and to me it's kind of a pathetic thing."

It's kind of what you're supposed to do, though. Do your freaking job. This comes off as petulant whining. Especially since they spent a generation advertising their games as shiny squeak toys for children.

No mention of removing that gimmicky touchscreen & replacing it with Wired / Wireless GameCube Controllers.

....

Yeah, I don't think Miyamoto wants my money.

Prolly he learned the casual/passive gamer does not have a sense of loyalty, but on "jumping in the next hot thing".

double post

DJjaffacake:
In fairness, he might have meant apathetic. It fits better with the context, and is an easy mistake to make if English isn't your first language (although the interview may have been in Japanese for all I know).

Miyamoto usually do all his interview in Japanese with a translator for other languages, even if he understand and speak English, just as to be more spontaneous in the discussion.

Passive gamer... does somebody here knows the definition of that term? I think it's the first time I hear it.

I know that mobile market and videogames together sounds really bad (and a lot of bad games validate it). But looking closely I don't see the usual "giving the mobile audience what they are used to have" tone that other companies like EA use; and that's a plus, isn't it?

Olas:
How is "going where the money is" something to be criticized for? It's what businesses do, and Nintendo's push for the casual market with the Wii made them mad dough while it lasted. The fact that Nintendo isn't stupid enough to stay on a sinking ship isn't something to be mad about.

Its not about that they decided to try and find a new or larger audience with thier produce, but rather that they kept trying to appeal to said audience long after they moved on to Android and iOS devices. How much better could the WiiU have been if they got thier 2013 fiscal report a year or two earlier?

Or at least thats how it is for me. Opinions vary, of course.

I'm pretty happy to hear he knows that the mobile market is sweeping up casual gaming. I was worried Nintendo would constantly try to hammer home to a market that is less and less interested in them. They're always going to be seen as the "safe" brand for the casual market, but it's good to know they're refocussing.

in other words

GIT GUD CASUAL!

many people told nintendo this a good while ago, they couldve saved themselves the whole WiiU debacle!

the problem is not casual games themselves, but they shouldnt focus too much on those, release a few of those here and there, but you should count on them to sustain your company in the long run

in the end while less in number, your hardcore players are arguably your most important fans, they are your tech priests, converting people to your console, they probide the most useful feedback, they make promotional material for you for free

Thus reenforcing my belief the man is a god.

It isn't difficult to get: the Wii was supposed to be the gateway drug to get people to see a wider world of gaming, and so many were happy to stay in the doorway. In out efforts to try and not judge others for playing differently, we forgot that "casual gamers" were on par with people that wouldn't eat an unfamiliar food, or try a new vacation spot, or read a new author. It's a purposeful limiting of one's experience and it's fair to look down on it a bit.

This is most likely bad translation or meaning lost during translation. I doubt Miyamoto, as a public figure and face of Nintendo would use that kind of language to talk about their costumer. It doesn't seem like something Nintendo would do.

However, I agree with the statement. The passive attitude ticks me off as well.

And Man:

'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.'

I'm all for this new mindset that Nintendo has, but isn't this kinda the ultimate point of video games? To be entertained? Anyway, here's hoping for the best for Nintendo

I think it's more like "Here is a video game, entertain yourself". Rather than having everything served to you, you have to invest yourself into games if you want the most enjoyment out of them. More than with movies or books or any other non-interactive entertainment.

And Man:

'okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.'

I'm all for this new mindset that Nintendo has, but isn't this kinda the ultimate point of video games? To be entertained? Anyway, here's hoping for the best for Nintendo

The point he's making is that they want someone else to do the work for them, whereas playing games is very much interactive, and you can get a lot more out of it if you put a bit more effort into learning to play games beyond Bejeweled or Doodle Jump. People who are casual gamers would typically see something like a 3D platformer, or even a simple FPS as too complicated and give up before they even try them. Those aren't people that are gamers. They're people who play simple games so they can pass the time without ever having to commit to something.

People are misconstruing what he said. People are wanting games these days where everything's upfront, everything's free, and there's little to no challenge involved. He's saying that "casuals" just want a "passive" experience where they have minimal participation in what's going on in the game.

That's opposed to a more active experience created by tactics, competitive multiplayer, and high difficulty that makes you work for your fun.

If it gives us more old school tactics and JRPGs (recently, Fire Emblem: Awakening and Bravely Default), I'm all for it.

BiH-Kira:
snip

Vivi22:
snip

Alright, yeah, that makes sense and is much more reasonable

Personally I don't think it makes much sense to focus entirely on one or the other, but instead make games form both the "hardcore" *heavy sarcastic air quotes* and "casual." However as long as "focusing on the Hardcore" doesn't mean jumping on the Call of Duty bandwagon, I'm ok with this.

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